Rule 5 nuggets

Rule 5 Draft

BA has an article today on guys to monitor in the Rule 5 draft, and two Phillies show up; Edgar Garcia and Harold Garcia. They note Garcia’s prior successes and his struggles in 2009 partly due to Visa issues. Harold Garcia draws a Chone Figgins comp, which seems like a stretch, but they note his speed as a big asset.
I find it unlikely we’d lose Harold Garcia, though Edgar seems like a possibility for a team willing to stash him at the back of a bullpen for a season. We’ll see.

80 thoughts on “Rule 5 nuggets”

  1. If you haven’t seen it yet- Jim Callis in his ESPN chat ranks the Phillies organization as a top 5 overall. Nice job Amaro et all, keep up the good work!

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  2. I feel the other way around – I think a second division AL team could carry Harold and the sixth bench player and use him sparingly will little ill effect (think Bruntlett, but playing even less) but after the year he head and performance this winter I don’t see how any team could believe Edgar could get a major league hitter out at this point. He’d have to be the 12th pitcher on an AL team.

    Who knows though, we shall see. I hope they are able to sneak both by!

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  4. I don’t think Edgar is among our top 20 pitchers anymore but he’s still young and still has good stuff so you can’t write him off. I think there’s a good chance that Harold will get selected and a team will decide in spring training if they can store him on the bench for a year.
    Callis really said Phils were top 5? That’s amazing especially considering what they just traded for Blanton and Lee in the last two years. They’ve come a long way and we all see that when we have difficulty ranking our top 30 without leaving some guys out altogether.

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  5. can someone post the full list of guys who could be taken in the rule 5. i am not a member so I can’t see it. You can post the list, just not the articles with the list.

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  9. Edgar Garcia has yet to show he’s a major league pitcher. He’s never had a dominate game in AA. It seems he’s gone stagnant while climbling the ladder. Don’t count on him.
    Also, I think the #5 overall minors rating reflects Gillick most of all and the decision to allow Park to test f/a without offering him arb wasn’t too smart. He would have turned it down.

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  10. Sorry to talk about park but it was very likely he would have taken arb b/c its gives him another shot at a championship then to retire. I am not ready to give him 3-5 million, he’s a good player but nothing near as good as madsen or shields who deserve big contracts. If i am not mistaken teams do not need to take players in the rule 5 draft so i wouldn’t be surprised if they pass on taking anyone. Be nice to find another victorino but one who plays the inf. But i guess another live arm wouldn’t hurt.

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  11. A list of all the guys eligible would be quite a long list. Some opinions on this could be found on Google or other search engine by 2009 rule 5 draft, or like that. Some net Pirates follower has done some previews on his blog called something like Buccos Den, something like that. He did a review of Middle Infielders, Catchers, and Outfielders, and perhaps he has another today. The first review on Middle Infielders has a comment attached with another list of some notables. I thought they might have looked at another catcher, born in Allentown, Anthony Recker of Oakland organization. Cleveland seems to have about 7 draft worthy types according to commenters, like catcher Matt McBride, or RHP Yohan Pino. Seattle has a 22 year old OF, Carlos Peguero, who has seemed to hit for high average and is coming off a 31 HR season, albeit in the California League. There are others , some might take note of by their assessment.

    I raised the possibility that Harlod Garcia might be drafted after the season, with no concurrence. If he was, I think he could play more than some have surmised. Maybe he can be another Everth Cabrera.

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  12. Yes, and there are also copyright infringement issues with block copying an article that is not available to non-subscribers. You can’t and shouldn’t do it and PP is right to immediately take down any offending materials.

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  15. Harold Garcia is an interesting case. He held his own at second base during the start of winter ball hitting .274 until the Royals starting second baseman Alberto Callaspo arrived to take his place. Since then Callaspo has hit .290 for Zulia in the VWL.

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  16. Anthony Recker is a monster, pitched against him in college and he hit a hanging curveball about 450 feet to left center

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  17. I give E. Garcia a bit of a pass for this year with missing most of the season…and his numbers at Clearwater weren’t terrible. He showed decent control – but didn’t rack up a lot of K’s. He had a really good season last year at Clearwater, and he just turned 22 years old.

    I have him in the early to mid-30’s on my Phillies Prospects rankings.

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  18. 3 years with an option for Polanco. Can we find a 3rd baseman in the organization when the deal runs out?

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  19. Rule 5 for a situational lefty is a pretty good idea. They can take one or two and simply give them back at the end of spring training if they’re not good enough. The writeup was helpful (thanks) and the last kid on the list, Snyder, from the Giants would really interest me.

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  20. Park doesn’t want to retire. Why should he, he’s still effective. He wants to start, not relieve. Relieving is a last option, he said. That’s why they should have offered him arb. As Park’s agent, how often does Scott Boras accept arb?

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  21. Regarding the situational lefty in the Rule 5, if you’re going to go that route why wouldn’t you just give the spot to Sergio Escalona or Mike Zagurski?

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  22. A little off topic, but John Manuel from BA ranks the Phillies system as #4 in all of baseball. Full ranking is available for free at Sports Illustrated Online.

    4. Phillies: Philadelphia had the depth to trade for Cliff Lee and still have a top-flight farm system. Outfielder Michael Taylor has hit .333 over the last two seasons, rocketing to Triple-A, and fellow outfielder Dominic Brown has better tools, though he’s still a bit raw. Righty Kyle Drabek, son of the former Cy Young Award winner Doug Drabek, has three above-average pitches to go with excellent athletic ability. Beyond their Big Three — all of whom have performed at Double-A or above — the Phillies are bursting with young power arms, toolsy Latin American infielders and athletic outfielders, such as Anthony Gose.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/12/01/farm.systems/index.html

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  23. I don’t see why people are so confident that the Garcia’s won’t be drafted. They are not top 20 prospects for us, I think both in the high 20s to low 30s. Still, they have talent and may well be successful major leaguers. Each is certainly worth a $50K investment. The 25th roster spot means absolutely zilch to a second-division AL team like Kansas City. I’m not sure it means all that much to Pittsburgh. Adding guys who are relatively advanced minor leaguers and guys who would definitely be in a lot of teams’ top 20 is well worth the gamble. They can be drafted and hidden with zero expectation of contributing in the major leagues in 2010.

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  24. Yes, and there are also copyright infringement issues with block copying an article that is not available to non-subscribers. You can’t and shouldn’t do it and PP is right to immediately take down any offending materials.

    Spoken like a true attorney. Well played, sir. 😉

    I honestly can’t see either Garcia sticking on a 25-man roster for an entire year. It’s true, as Allentown says, that teams like Kansas City could afford to for an entire year, but I don’t think the upside on either is necessarily worth it. I have to think the Phillies feel the same way.

    Now Kennelly, on the other hand, could be a valuable piece as an Eli Marrerro style utility guy. I’m honestly more worried about him getting drafted and sticking than I am the other guys.

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  25. Another OT (sorry, no Daily Discussion threads for news like this):
    Former Phillies pharm hand Matt Spencer was traded to the Cubs today as part of a five player deal that sent Jake Fox and Aaron Miles to the A’s for Jeff Gray. Ronny Morla was the other A’s minor league sent to Chicago.

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  26. At this point, I just don’t see the upside in Garcia to justify a major league roster spot for a whole season. It’s not like he has great stuff and no control, or he’s particularly dominant at some aspect of the game. He’s been generally mediocre since being promoted to AA. I don’t think you can discount his AFL performance…he got hammered. I think his ultimate ceiling is a Clay Condrey type, and while there’s value in that, is it worth holding onto him for a whole year? I doubt it.

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  27. The other thing on E. Garcia is that he lost all of last year development-wise because of visa issues. Do you really want him to lost another year of development while you stash him on your roster?

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  28. Edgar Garcia- I see some lists on available players around, and have not seen Edgar’s name, though it seems there are alot of promising pitchers around, especially RHP’s, according to those making the assessments. So maybe he won’t get picked, though it can’t be ruled out.

    Note: right at this time: Scott Proefrock coming on WIP.

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  29. Since when is our system ‘bursting with toolsy Latin American Infielders’?

    Nice to see our system ranked so highly though. Thanks for the heads up tjc.

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  30. Saw the last Florida Instruct game of the season and was impressed with the play of Duran and the bat of Villar at short and Cesar Hernandez at second in the game.

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  31. I think the difference in opinions is based on ‘drafted’ vs. ‘make the 25 man roster’. I could see both Garcias being drafted, but I have my doubts about Harold sticking on a 25 man roster all year.

    OT: ‘toolsy Latin American infielders’ – do you consider catcher ‘infield’? If so, perhaps Valle fits that bill, but I can’t think of another.

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  32. Manuel generally likes our system more than most. We aren’t bursting with toolsy Latin American infielders but he probably is considering Valle, Galvis and Villar.

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  33. Its a banner day when the system we all follow so closely is ranked #4 and then the GM goes out and smartly signs the capable third baseman that will not cost us our first round pick. Who wasn’t thrilled to hear how much Polanco wanted to come back to Philly? These are not your father’s Phillies! As for Park, I would have liked him back but I have confidence that Amaro did the right thing in not offering arb and not overpaying for him. I know they’re trying to bring someone good in who could be used late game in addition to Madson/Lidge and that person will cost money. Park would have stayed if the arb got him an extra $2 mil and the Phils will need that money for the other guy they want to sign. As for the question about Escalona or Zags, I’m sure they’ll get looked at in spring training but a rule 5 guy, who used to be a starter and now focuses totally on relieving and only against lefties, can sometimes be a big surprise. Also, Kennelly won’t get taken. You can store a guy for a year who can run and field because those skills play up quickly. A guy that is a hitter without a position like Kennelly can’t help until he can hit and that’s the tougher major league skill to develop.

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  34. I got the 4 switch-hitters: Galvis, Harold Garcia, Villar, and Cesar Hernandez. Valle is not an infielder, he just played one on the Baseball America 2013 Phillies MLB roster projection.

    Maybe they can find a young 3B they can take in the rule 5 Draft. A young, Right Handed Hitting type who can fill at 1st and 3rd and ideally CF and RF and LF. Use him as a Pinch Hitter and fill-in for a year, and then stash him at AAA. The guy from Buccos Den did not do a preview of Corner Infielders for his rule 5 draft preview, because it says it don’t apply to Pirates team needs. So the information is sparse.The Rosenthal/Morosi blog on Fox Sports carries a quote from Ruben Amaro that says to the effect, Phillies have nothing in the minors at 3rd base, in reference to the Polanco signing. There you have the official word.

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  35. I really, really, really doubt the franchise’s long term solution at third base is sitting in the rule 5 draft.

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  36. makes you wish we had travis chapman and welinson baez again…… system has come a long way from those days.

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  37. So you think there’s no Dave Hollins type in the Rule 5 draft? I always felt badly for Dave. If he had another year of minor league seasoning, I think he could have been a more consistent player. As it was, he had an okay career and was actually traded for Mark Whiten and even David Ortiz.

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  38. One of the problems is that there is now an extra year before players are eligible for the rule 5 draft. So the talent pool is MUCH thinner than in previous years.

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  40. Matt McBride-C/OF(3B?) of the Indians is available. He could serve as 3rd catcher/OF right handed bat off the bench, plus he has the tools to play 3B. He was Clevelands #13 prospect in 2008.

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  41. Bellman I would have agree with you years ago, but victorino and some others have changed my mind, In fact special assistant to amaro said he would have like to keep the pitcher from last years rule 5 thinks he is a good prospect.

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  42. Wonder if Tim Kennelly did enough for the scouts in the Aussie tournament to get taken in Rule 5? He hit in all 12 games so far going 19 for 46 (.413) with 3 homers. He is leading the tourney in rbi’s with 11, total bases 34 and slugging at .739. Went 3 for 3 in stolen bases to show off his speed. And for good measure has thrown out a runner at the plate for a DP to show off his arm from right field.

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  43. Chapman was a pretty good prospect who was done in by injury. Pre-injury, he put up quite a half season with the bat at Reading and was adequate defensively. Phillies never gave him a lot of respect, because they were in love with Richardson, whom I recall also had injury problems.

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  45. I haven’t seen Daniel Brauer mentioned anywhere. Isn’t he eligible? I could see a team taking a flyer on a lefty who strikes out better than a batter an inning. Doubt he sticks though.

    I came across a list of eligible Phillies minor leaguers on a blog. Sorting through the list, I have them in this order:

    1. Edgar Garcia
    2. Daniel Brauer
    3. Freddy Ballestas
    4. Harold Garcia
    5. Carlos Monasterios
    6. Alexander Concepcion
    7. Michael Durant
    8. Walter Tejada
    9. Tuffy Gosewisch
    10. Darren Byrd
    11. Yonderman Rodriguez
    12. Arlon Quiroz
    13. Javis Diaz
    14. Gus Milner
    15. Derrick Mitchell

    Are any of them ineligible?

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  46. Based on that list, Alan, Phils have done a good job managing the 40-man. I really do not see anyone there worth taking a gamble on, or if they are drafted, really worth a roster spot to any team at this point. Either all passed on or returned to Phils, IMO. Harold Garcia might hit .230 in majors, matched against the right pitchers, but there is not enough upside to risk adding him to the 25-man, so why do it? Same goes for E. Garcia and Monasterios. BTW, can’t see Brauer anywhere near the top of that list. Otherwise, the order is reasonable in terms of potential.

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  47. I doubt Brauer will even be playing minor league baseball next year. Schwim reported that Brauer (a Northwestern grad) was busy studying for his GMAT exam (pre-requisite for admission to MBA programs). You might see Brauer in a few years, but he’s more likely to be in a suit than a uniform. If I were he, unless I wanted to be a major league player more than anything, I’d hang it up.

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  48. Kris Johnson is in the same boat as Joe Savory. Both never recovered their velocity after arm surgery. Johnson’s was TJ surgery.

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  49. a couple of Rule 5 thoughts,

    – on the list Alan posted, Concepcion and Diaz were both free agents. Phils resigned Concepcion so I guess he’s eligible, but woulnd’t that make all fa’s signed eligilbe (tracy, wise, hoover, valdez, thompson and anderson available.)

    – the Phils should be able to protect any of the guys listed in Alan’s list in the minor league portion of the draft

    – why isn’t a guy like Sellers on the list. he was picked up in the minor league portion of the rule 5 draft a couple years ago. how is he not eligible now if he was eligible a couple years ago?

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  50. Forgot about richardson. alan makes a good point about the phillies managing the roster because if we lost any of those players listed would not hurt the system much and frankly i don’t feel many people here would be upset.

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  51. All on professional contracts not on 40 man rosters are eligible. I also think T. Kennelly, J. Naughton, O. Chavez, N. Sellers,would be eligible, unless perhaps , in some cases, contracts were allowed to expire after the season and it was not picked up as a release by Baseball America, et al.

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  52. ****why isn’t a guy like Sellers on the list. he was picked up in the minor league portion of the rule 5 draft a couple years ago. how is he not eligible now if he was eligible a couple years ago?****

    Sellers retired.

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  55. Yeah, guys who signed as minor league free agents are eligible. Remember R.A. Dickey was taken a year or two ago.

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  57. RodeoJones Says:
    December 7, 2009 at 10:37 AM
    OT: Mayberry is quietly having a nice winter in Mexico.

    Must be a lot of left handed pitchers in Mexico…

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  58. While Mayberry is stroking at a 400 plus clip against lefties this winter he is hitting 273 against righties with 5 bombs.
    He clearly has talent but showed a very poor approach in many of his appearances in Philly.

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  60. Thanks for the article rb, some of those guys look like they might be pretty good pick-ups. Interesting that the Yankees would trade for a Rule 5 Pick when 2 of the top 5 players available are ones that they left unprotected.

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  61. I believe you can select your own player.

    Phillies will select someone. $50,000 is a cheap price to look at someone.

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  62. Why would a team select their own player. If they wanted to keep them they could have just added them to the 40 man roster, and if they didn’t have any openings they could not make a selection. What are they going to do , pay themselves $50,000? I say the Yankees will take Aneury Rodriguez. That list was just of the Rule 5 types who played in the Arizona Fall League, some of those guys might not get taken. Yankees should have at least a couple extra spots, not that they, in effect, traded 3 guys for Granderson.

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  63. I wasn’t implying that the Yankees were going to pick their own player… more that they must heavily value whoever they plan to select.

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  64. Did Carlos Monasterios do enough tonight to help him get picked in the Rule 5 Draft on Thursday morning. He pitched a 5 inning, 3 hit, 6 K, shutout and is in line to pick up his 7th win in 9 decisions in the VWL.

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  65. Does anyone know where a list of Phillies minor leaguers not on the 40-man roster but protected on the AAA or AA reserve lists from the minor league phase of the Rule 5 could be obtained?

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  66. If the Yankees pick one of their own players…it won’t be the first time this happen in the rule 5 draft. I remember the Braves back in the 1980’s some time had the first pick in the rule 5 draft and they drafted one of their own – it might have been P-Ben Rivera. Don’t hold me to the player but it did happen.

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  67. AA and AAA rosters….If you go through all the players the Phillies have under contract, subtract the 40 man roster, the free agents, and players not eligible for the rule 5 draft, I doubt you have 34 players left. According to Cot’s baseball Contracts, teams can protect 34 on the AAA roster, and 34 on the AA roster. Whoever they have under contract that is applicable, and they want to protect they can. They do not have to fill all the spots, and if they want to expose players they can. The players they make available, the draft fees serve as a price list for the players they want to unload. Say , if a player is placed on AA roster, the drafting fee is $8,000 something like that. There might even be a lower fee for lower levels. Since they are really putting players up for sale, and they might take them back if not selected, they may not wish to publicize their names. I have never seen those rosters published. (note: Neil Sellers was taken in the minor league portion of the rule 5 draft when the Astros decided he was not worth inclusion on the MLB or AAA roster that offseason.)

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  68. The Phillies will definitely take at least one, if not two, pitchers. It’s predictable at this point. The difference this year is with so many bullpen spots open I could see one of the picks making the team.

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  69. From “Baseball Trades and Rumors”
    “The Yankees might have the Nats take one of their own players, Zach Kroenke, to make sure no one else does. Ed Price of AOL FanHouse agrees: there’s a chance the Yankees will have the Nats select Kroenke.”
    The Yankees just traded 4 players for 1 so they have roster spots open that were not open prior to today.
    And that’s why it a team would take its own player.

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  71. On that Yankees thing, I actually went to MLBTR and went through the links on that. One from John Manuel quotes a Yankees official as saying we’re not gonna do that, and Manuel suggests a couple of better LHP options , even. The Kroenke theory came from the Washington Times, originally, with an echo from Ed Price. So it comes down to who are you going to believe. In a couple of minutes it will be known.

    On the Yankees trade, I have it as Kennedy, Austin Jackson, and Coke going, and Granderson coming in. That’s a loss of 2 net, and MiLB lists roster number as 38. I did not think they were at 40 before.

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  76. My take is that you can’t protect everybody in your organization. If another team thinks Monasterios is MLB worthy, well that’s how this system is supposed to work.

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  80. Now in the AAA phase, on the other hand, they took Angelo Sanchez , a 20 year old from Venezuela, who just completed a season in the Rookie Appalachian League. Looks like a bigger type who averaged over a Strikeout per Inning. Maybe he can get in there at Williamsport, I figure. I thought they would take a few more in the minor league phase, given the plain lack of numbers at positions on certain levels. I see Phillies protected 30 out of a possible 38 on the AAA roster. Might have been all the eligible players they had. If not , and they left a few off, then nobody thought them worthy of 12,000 or 4,000. Somebody should look into that.

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