Baseball America’s team by team previews
Philadelphia Phillies: The Phillies likely won’t be active for the players at the top of the market in Latin America, though that hasn’t stopped them from finding quality prospects on a budget in past years. They signed Dominican outfielder Domingo Santana for $330,000 in March, and it looks like they’ll try to land players for comparable bonuses this year.
This is what I expected, to be honest.
Phuture Phillies 
posted in another thread:
According to espndeportes, Luis Jolly turned down 800k from Phillies, the high profile player from DR
LikeLike
We might not be dead on Jolly yet. Apparently he fired his agent. From the scouting reports I think $800K is about as far as I would go.
Another reporter noted that the Phillies are the only big market team doing very little. I guess they better sign a few of the tough signs in the draft if they are not going to invest Internationally.
LikeLike
Many people will claim that there is no budgetary overlap from Latin American signings to slot-busting draftees, but I’d be shocked if that were the case. The Phils were rumored to be in on Adys Portillo last year (who eventually signed with San Diego for $2 million), and when that didn’t materialize, I find it hard to believe that the signings of Cosart and Pettibone weren’t affected by that.
As long as the organization spends an appropriate amount of money on player development (let’s call it X), it doesn’t matter to me if it’s 0.4X in Latin America and 0.6X on the draft, or 0.1X in Latin America and 0.9X on the draft. The Phils have had some luck with mid-ter Latin American prospects in recent years — think Carrasco, Bastardo, Escalona, Flande — so if nabbing a couple of those guys frees up money to ink Colvin, then I’m all for it.
LikeLike
Yeah, that’s my stance as well. The Phillies don’t have a big track record in Latin America, they don’t spend for the high profile guys, so I find it hard to believe we’d go from shopping in the lower tiers to the top tier overnight. They have shown some aptitude in finding bargains like Heitor Correa and Carlos Ruiz, they did spend a decent amount on Freddy Galvis, and they may have found an interesting guy in Domingo Santana for a reasonable amount last season.
My general preference is that we spend more of our resources in the draft than internationally. There is a lot more inherent risk in the international market. While I’d prefer that we spend a ton in both areas, I’m fine with our current plan
LikeLike
I still would like to see both. We should be spending $4-$6 million on the draft and $2-$3 million internationally. I fear we will be around $3M for the draft and maybe $1.5M internationally if we are lucky at the pace we are going.
Colvin should be considered as the #1 pick we did not have (and did not have to pay for). I would expect at least 1 other Cosart type deal beyond Colvin as well, along with signing virtually everyone in the top 10.
Internationally we have been in the lower half range of bonuses. We have had some success with lower priced guys like Bastardo, Flande, and Valle, but that does not mean we should completely close the door on higher priced guys. Carrasco at $300K is the equivalent of guys getting $600K-$800K today. We need to at least be competitive in that price range.
LikeLike
I dont understand “budget” thinking when for two years you are paying guys that would wont even let in a game. Money is
money no matter where u spend it.
LikeLike
How did they sign Santana in March when the signing period begins tomorrow?
If Correa is able to keep progressing and can make the bigs eventually (not necessarily star, just make), wouldn’t you guys agree that it would give the Phils a great leg up in tapping into a gigantic raw market in Brazil?
LikeLike
colvin is only been pitching for one year is that right?
LikeLike
Santana did not turn 16 until August last year, so he was not available until his birthday. Also, many players choose to wait before they sign so they can get more money.
LikeLike
andy, I think AB’s question is similar to mine. When does the signing period end? You can start on July 2nd, but when does it end?
LikeLike
The signing period never really ends. If you are over 16 you can sign pretty much any time. I have to do a little more research, but I think the one restriction is on age 16 players that turn 16 this year before the signing deadline. Thus if you turn 16 in March you have to wait till July to sign. If you turn 16 from July to December you can sign on your birthday. There are probably some MLB vetting requirements also so they can do an age check, but I don’t think that affects status that much.
If you are a 16-year-old pitcher with an 82 mph fastball you might wait a couple of years till you are 18 (and hopefully with a 90 mph fastball) to sign. That is why only the top tier of prospects will sign in July (and more trickling in the rest of the year after they turn 16). Much of the second and third tier will wait, though some sign for a modest amount and hope for the best (guys like Bastardo).
LikeLike
I’ve actually had this discussion with those responsible for international talent and signings. It has to do with the money available from management for the talent available. The thinking is sign as many as possible and hope that the cream comes to the top. They’d really like to get involved with some of the high tier talent but it comes down to money. Sal Artigia, who is one of the founding father of Dominican league baseball, is well thought of and respected for the Phillies, runs the show down there, so we should be doing better. I guess it comes down to money.
The debate over Latin and American talent is simple. Count the number of big Latins stars on big league rosters. They play ball 365 down there, show me any Americans who do that. The effort to sign them is well worth the effort.
LikeLike
****show me any Americans who do that****
Don’t most prospects from FL and S. Cal do that in those prep leagues? I believe one of Moyer’s sons does that in Bradenton, FL. That’s why they are the hotbeds of the draft that they are.
LikeLike
Not many. High School guys have two or three different sports they are involved in and by the time Latins reach the age of college players they are either signed or have hung it up. Baseball is the only game in town for most of them, so they play it with abandonment. It’s their ticket out.
LikeLike
mikemike-
colvin was a relif pitcher in HS until last year, i think.
LikeLike
Rob Plummer put it perfectly, he said that the Phillies have some of, if not, the best scouts down there. He went on to say they don’t get it. He was referring to how they don’t spend money on guys they find.
For those who aren’t aware, Rob Plummer is the premier agent for international free agents. He went to Haverford and I believe is a Phillies fan(although he might not admit it).
I’ don’t want them to go out there and get guys like Sano and Maeto as those rarely seem to work, but I would like them to get a $600,000-$800,000 guy.
LikeLike
Nevri Jimenez in DSL, a low profile signing, seems to be doing well, anyone have info on him? I am also intrigues by Luis Beltre, batting in 5th spot and only 17
LikeLike
Santana- if Santana turned 16 in August he had no reason to sign before when he did. The rule is a player can not begin to play professionally until the calendar year after the year they first become eligible. So signing around February was just the right time.
Beltre- yeah, still younger player, put up some good numbers, not a pygmy like alot of signees down there.
Nevri Jimenez—they played him at alot of positions. Currently seems to play regualar at 2B. Started off as regular LF, filled in at SS for a couple of games, also seemed to be playing regular at 3B for a couple of games. Been reasonably consistently good at bat , so far, and seems to be a basestealer with good speed, Just going by the stats, of course.
LikeLike
On an International note: The Cleveland Indians # 30 prospect, the 17 year old Jose Osorio has been found to be the 20 year old Wally Bryan. Article says MLB is investigating some 70 such cases.(MLBTR) Who? A guess might be that some of the players investigated may be among those who have had trouble securing visas.
LikeLike
First signing I seen. Mets sign LHP Juan Urbina (Ugueth Urbina’s son).
LikeLike
Baseball Prospectus live blogging:
Yankees get C Sanchez for $3M, SS Arredondo for $800K.
LikeLike
i was blasted for suggesting that players might still be fudging their ages due to desperation to get out and knowing that they aren’t a top prospect @ say 19 but @ 16 they would be. I believe it is much less often but still need to be careful.
LikeLike
Copied from a Yankees board, a summary of stuff so far:
CONFIRMED (for the most part)
Yankees – Gary Sanchez C $3,000,000
Yankees – Damian Arredondo SS $850,000
Yankees – Chris Cabrera RHP $400,000
Astros – Jonathon Mejia SS $370,000
Athletics – Wilfredo Solano SS
Athletics – Alfredo Sosa OF
Athletics – Junior Martinez 3B (like the name)
Brewers – Jose Pena RF $400,000
Cardinals – Wagner Mateo CF $3,100,000
Cubs – Wilson Contreras C $850,000
Mets – Juan Urbina LHP $1,000,000+
Royals – Cheslor Cuthbert 3B $1,200,000
REPORTED (before 7/2, but very likely to happen)
Diamondbacks – Chris Lopez SS $45,000
Rangers – Jurickson Profar SS $700,000
Red Sox – Victor Payano LHP $900,000
Red Sox – Raul Alcantara RHP $500,000
Red Sox – Jose Vinicio SS $2,000,000
Rockies – Rosmel Herrera SS $1,000,000
Twins – Jorge Polanco SS $700,000
Top unsigned players:
Sano SS – Yankees, Pirates, and a bunch of other teams
DePaula RHP – Who knows?
Pimental OF – ???
Juan Castillo SS – Astros, Twins, Rays
GianCarlos Santana RHP – Royals, Pirates
Pirates also signed 3 Taiwanese high school players. No info on Luis Jolly, though if he switched agents he is probably not going to sign immediately.
LikeLike
****i was blasted for suggesting that players might still be fudging their ages due to desperation to get out and knowing that they aren’t a top prospect @ say 19 but @ 16 they would be. I believe it is much less often but still need to be careful.****
This is very very rare these days and USCIS (former INS) has cracked down on such falsehoods quite well. They actually set up a special task force for such things a few years ago that ironically netted several offenders despite not focusing on MLB guys. At this point, you are usually pretty safe to assume the guy is the age he says he is…unless your GM’s name is Bowden.
LikeLike
Like what they are doing in Latin America by signing what appears to be lower cost talent who are developing into prospects. For example Flande pitched 5 of 6 shut out innings in his AA debut earllier in the week and will likely need to be protected on the 40 man from Rule 5 this fall. Tonight Carrasco picked up a quality start win for Lehigh Valley, Correa picked up his 6th win for Lakewood and Valle was a home run short of hitting for the cycle while driving in 3 runs in a 4-3 win for Williamsport. Today Santana went deep for the second time for the GCL Phils but am intrigued with the arms on the DSL team. 19 year old Gabriel Arias struck out 10 in 6 innings today and the DSL Phils starters are now in 4 of the top 7 spots in strike outs in the Dominican league. Not bad work for Los Phillies.
LikeLike
Domingo Santana just hit his 3rd HR this afternoon. Not bad for a 16-year-old. No Phillies signings reported as of yet.
LikeLike
Three homers by Santana in his first 5 games is not bad. He is now second to the league leader who has 5 homers. Last year in the GCL, the league leader in homers for the season had 11 in 51 games.
LikeLike
One update on the International front: The Phillies are scheduled to work out Colombian OF Leonardo Fuentes in the next few days. Other finalists for him are the Yankees, Brave, and Giants with a decision likely on Sunday.
LikeLike
Phillies sign LHP Lino Martinez as per Jorge Arangure on his twitter
LikeLike
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=5319
LikeLike
Progress. There had been a report earlier that the Phillies were targeting 4 guys in the $300K-$350K range. Hopefully this is the first of several. Does not look like the kid has much projection, but he does look fairly polished. Good change-up, pretty good athleticism. One can never have too many left handed pitchers.
LikeLike
Whats the scouting report on Fuentes?
LikeLike
Fuentes is supposedly a raw potential power hitter – 6’3″, 195 already at age 16. Corner OF, not a CF. Yankees and Giants (who have had Edgar Renteria make calls for them) are probably the leaders for him.
LikeLike
Months ago I said these kids are older And was told by someone “that doesn’t happen anymore because of security reason” yeah .well our secuity stinks, These kids are still lying about there age, its scarey to give three million to a kid who is a lot older than you think,
LikeLike
Some of these kids may be older. But for the most part they are not. MLB has taken a greater role in background checks and visa requirements are tougher. This does not mean it still does not happen, but it happens less often.
The bigger picture to look at is that more than one third of our baseball talent these days comes from Latin America. And that percentage continues to grow. Teams need to do their homework, but they still must play in the Latin American market if they want to have quality minor league systems. Complaining about kids lying about their age gets a little old these days. Americans often lied about their age 40-50 years age to get a better contract. It happens. If teams do their own background checks and have good scouts it will happen less. Good scouts should be able to grade potential tools no matter what age the kid is.
The Phillies SHOULD be investing in Latin America. I generally like their strategy of signing lots of 2nd and 3rd tier talents and hoping a few develop with good instruction. Their one fault is they can be cheap. This does not meaning competing for the 3 million dollar bonuses. They just have to have enough money to get the cream of the second tier. It is not a surprise that guys like Carrasco are good prospects when they cost a little extra money.
LikeLike
At this point you should assume that a guy is the age he claims unless proven otherwise.
LikeLike
They seem to be getting their money’s worth from Santana after his first 5 games as a pro. He has homered in each of his last three games: a grand slam, a two run homer and now today a three run homer. Tomorrow morning Domingo goes for the home run cycle in Dunedin if he can hit a solo long ball. But he struggles with the bases empty when he is only 1 for 8 with 6 strike outs so far. He has plenty of time to work on that since he will only turn 17 Aug. 5th.
LikeLike
Well there is 70 kids being investigate, that’s a lot of kids, from a market that doesn’t get a lot signed. maybe 300 kids total. My point is you can’t say it doesn’t happen a lot. what you can say is we don’t catch it like we should.
LikeLike
Andy you are saying years ago they lied, We are talking about kids getting a lot of money who are older, and how many kids would they sign who they think are 16 and really 19 or 20, for a sixteen year old they are thinking this kid has potential. But if they knew the right age its not the same, if he is 19 he should be more advance so he looks good for a 16 year old.
LikeLike
Mike – I know all that. Poor people might lie to get more money. It is rarer these days and teams should do their homework. It does not change the fact that 1/3 of talent comes from Latin America these days. Teams need to sign talent in Latin America or they lose. You seem to be saying they should not.
LikeLike
No what bugs me is we are suppose to be a secure country, since 9/11, how are these kids lying and getting into these country, if they can so will others, They are getting illegal documents, and it hurts scouting a 16 year old projection are different if he is 19 or 20. like the kid we sign is at 86 to 88 you don’t think in the scouts mind he will add velocity with age, but if he is 20 its less likely, is that wrong?
LikeLike
So? What is the big deal? Teams should do their homework. They know what they are getting into. It is largely worth it.
LikeLike
just heard red sox signed a cuban defector ss for 8 mil. didnt get his name.
LikeLike