With the Phillies need for a left fielder, as well as possibly another starting pitcher or reliever, there will be trade rumors over the next month, heightening at the GM meetings. We discussed this back in June, but I thought maybe now would be a good time to re-visit the conversation. So, do we have untouchables now, and is the list different than it was in June? Go.
136 thoughts on “Who are the untradeable prospects?”
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Phuture Phillies 
Carrasco, Marson, D’Arnaud, Taylor and that’s about it. Donald may be able to fill in nicely at 3rd but I would trade him for a #2 pitcher if possible along with some other pieces. Would anyone trade saaaay Jason Donald, Greg Golson, and Drew Naylor for Zach Greinke or is that too much?
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The Royals would laugh you out of the room with that offer.
Think about it: Donald isn’t regarded as a top prospect, and Golson and Naylor might turn out to be better than fringe guys (backup or AAAA OF, swingman pitcher), but they’ve given little reason yet to believe as much.
Greinke is young, talented, healthy and cheap. I’m not sure Carrasco, Marson and Donald would be enough to pry him loose.
I wouldn’t regard anybody in the system as “untradeable.” But I also wouldn’t deal both Marson and D’Arnaud, and it would take something spectacular for me to part with Taylor. Carrasco too–not so much because I think he’s going to be a superstar (I don’t) but because he looks likely to develop as an affordable mid-rotation starter with a clean bill of health. That’s pretty darn valuable.
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Carrasco, Marson, D’Arnaud, D. Brown off limits. But my No. 1 off limits guy is Kyle Drabek. Top of the rotation stuff and pitching lights out in the Hawiian league. This coming after a year layoff from TJ surgery.
PS Long time web site reader, first time poster. Love the site!
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marson and taylor. everyone else can go
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I wouldn’t clasify anyone in the system as “untouchable”
There are some nice prospects, but no undeniable studs.
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1. Donald. No other solid 3B candidate in sight. How can we NOT plug that hole for a few years with plus hitting and good fielding?
2. Carrasco and Drabek. We HAVE to keep getting the pitching yoounger and cheaper. These two have most upside arriving in the next 1-3 years.
3. Keep ONE of Taylor or Brown. My preference would be Taylor to plug LF and be some percentage approximation of Dave Winfield. Hat to lose Brown, though.
4. Marson. Why NOT plug the C hole with a potential AS candidate?
IOW, keep the cream of the farm. We had Burrell, Rollins, Utley, Howard, and Hamels fed to us from the system to make us WS contenders for a few years. Why dispatch the second wave to points unknown, for unkown return, even if they are only two-thirds to half as good as those.
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1. No one
2. No one
3. No one
I have favorite players who I want to end up as a Philly and never want them to leave (Drabek/Brown/Marson/Garcia) but if we can make a trade and net a guy who might gives us another WS or even just a chance to get to another WS, not even win one, that maybe worth losing 1 or 2 guys because, we as Philly Phans know we don’t get there many times and when we do we love that team no matter how they finish the series.
So while no one is untouchable, I would hold on to Drabek and Brown if I were only allowed to keep 1 pitcher and positional player. Though in the right trade they’d be gone as well.
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There are no prospects that are untradeable in the right deal.
Carrasco, Marson, D’Arnaud, Donald, and Drabek would be the 5 guys who would require a significant return in any deal, i.e. top of the rotation starter or middle of the order hitter.
This isn’t necessarily because I think any of the 5 names mentioned fit that profile in the future (maybe Drabek) but because they have potential to be solid everyday players at an affordible rate for an extended period of time.
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Donald, Drabek, Taylor, Brown – Marson is a close call. Carrasco is not untradeable, but he’s in the “you’d better get a great player for him” category. By the way, word is that the Phillies are considering signing a middle reliever who is on the FA “A” type list – I really hope this doesn’t happen. It’s one thing to lose a first rounder for C.C. Sabathia, but it’s intolerable to lose someone like that for Doug Brocail.
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Don’t believe everything you read this time of year regarding who teams are pursuing. See if their current teams are willing to offer arbitration..
Can’t believe any team would be dumb enough to sign a type-A, 40-something middle reliever and give up a 1st rounder in return.
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Drabek just wouldn’t be traded cause no one has seen him pitch for any extended period professionally.
This could be a real flux year for the Phillies: if they do well, let the talent come to you through the system. But if they do not perform well, I can see some prospects being traded, especially if some of our higher ceiling players live up to their hypes. There’s a good chance the rotation stinks next year, and Carrasco could certainly make a great impact, I would definitely not trade him. Heck, Savery might be able to make the jump by the end of the year if necessary.
As far as position players go, I wouldn’t trade Marson and that’s it. He’s at a real premium position, I’d like to see how he handles the staff. Donald is looking real good, the Phillies really should let him challenge for 3B in Spring Training. If he’s not up to snuff, he might (and other assets) be able to pull in a decent pitcher. I’m not too optimistic about our rotation unless the organization gives the young guys (Carrasco, Happ, Savery) a good chance to win a spot.
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Everyone’s pretty much on the same page here — no one is really untradeable, but it would have to be the right deal to move the top end prospects. To be honest, there’s no one being shopped right now that I’d really part with any of the Marson/Donald/Carrasco/Taylor/Brown/Drabek/d’Arnaud group for — no thanks on Dye and Ordonez, and there are no real intriguing starting pitchers on the market (Peavy and Greinke are outside our grasp methinks). I would have liked to have seen Amaro make a play for Swisher, but alas, that ship has sailed.
And Catch 22 f/k/a H Man: agree completely on the Type A relievers. There’s a chance that some Type A guys aren’t offered arbitration (think of the Phils and Freddy Garcia last offseason), but assuming they are, I’d prefer the Phils to stay away from Wood, Brocail, Cruz, Springer, etc. It’s just not worth the draft pick.
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Carden…oops.
I would say the list begins and ends with Carrasco right at this moment…
Although personally, I hope we don’t make any more trades this off season, as I think that donald, marson, happ and carrasco can all help the team before the end of next season.
The next generation of phillies must make its debut!
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The focus should be on stockpiling pitchers so in general we shouldn’t trade arms for bats unless it’s for an MVP contender like Matt Holliday. If a top starting pitcher is available we’d have to consider giving up Carrasco or Happ to make the deal happen. Carrasco may need two or three seasons to get his feet wet and the Phillies could be better off letting someone else live through the growing pains if it means getting a top-line starter in the meantime. At the moment Happ is more polished and shows better command even if his ceiling is lower than Carrasco’s. It depends on the trade of course but a top starting pitcher to go with Cole and Brett would be worth a package including almost anyone. That said, I’d hate to lose Marson or Taylor more than anyone else, followed by Carrasco, Drabek, Happ, Donald, Savery, D’Arnaud, Knapp, Naylor, Sampson, Worley, Stutes, Garcia, Collier.
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I agree with the general consensus, that Marson/Donald/Carrasco/Taylor/Brown/Drabek/d’Arnaud are the cream of the crop. My only slight difference in opnion is that I wouldn’t trade anyone of them anytime soon. The big club is getting expensive and you need as much cheap talent as you can get.
But if something good enough comes along, I wouldn’t object to anyone getting moved except the two catchers. You have Marson for 2-3 years until D’Arnaud is ready and then you can move Marson if needed, just as he’s getting expensive. Perhaps Valle is ready a couple years after that. Perhaps I biased since I played catcher, but I want to see both those guys in red pinstripes someday.
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Happ,Carrasco,Brown, and Taylor stay on merit.
Bastardo and Berry because u cant get back what they might become. Put Slayden in there too a left hand bat who hits left handers is rare.
Drabek could be 1 or 2 so he is safe. First and second year player i keep.
Golson, Jaramillo might get something
basically i like what we have for the future like i said before next year the division is even more of a walk then last year
with Marlins bowing out . So time for the wine to stay in the keg
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I agree with the “No one is untradeable” arguement. I also agree that there are a good 5 prospects you have to get a very good return on.
Carrasco – We have spent too much time developing this prospect. He is finally starting to pan out in the minors at every level he goes into. A lot of people seem to forget this KID is like 22 years old. Imagine if he caps at just a number 3 pitcher. That means we have Hamels and Carrasco as a very good young core to our pitching. That’s the kind of core that success is built from. If someone is willing to trade me Peavy straight up for him, I would consider it. But, that’s what it would take.
Marson – I’m on the fence with Marson at the moment. I want one more really good season before I crown him. The other problem with Marson is we have a GLUT of really good catchers. It’s so good down there that we look at Jaramillo and think he’s a bust. Subtract the catching talent we have and he is still a decent prospect. Look at his numbers after the first two months of the season. They are pretty impressive.
Drabek – To me, this guy is more valuable than even Carrasco. I know this flies in the face of what I said above, but I can’t help it. This guy looks like a stud. His GO/FO ratio is amazing and he maintains impressive K ratios. Watching video you see his fastball moves ALOT and his curveball is vicious. I can’t wait to see what he do with an entire year especially after getting back into a routine.
In my opinion Donald is completely tradeable. I don’t think they should give him away for a pittiance but I would take offers. He is blocked at both of his natural positions for YEARS TO COME. If he can make the transition to third and continue to improve see if he can do it at the major league level and then we’ll talk about untradeable.(For the record, I want nothing more than this guy to work out at third. Imagine that infield. Nasty.)
Other than that I can’t really think of much off the top of my head. I’ll post any additional thoughts if I have them.
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Interesting comment about not trading players because we wouldn’t getting what they might eventually be worth. Would you put Golson in that category too? Others?
Drabek has to stay. He could be an ace.
I’d be willing to trade everybody else. Obviously I’d like to keep guys like Brown, Marson, Taylor etc. It would frustrate me to no end if we unloaded some of our upper tier prospects for anything other than a #1 or #2 SP.
Fortunately I think the Phillies will be forced to keep most of their prospects. We’re at or above their self impossed salary cap, so trading for a high priced guy seems unlikely. Especially considering the raises that are due some of our core guys.
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Carrasco is actually 21. That’s crazy.
Also, I said 5. My other two that would require a good return would have to be Brown and Taylor. Our most notable hole offensively right now(Outside of the already discussed 3rd base) has to be left field. Even if we resign Burrell we can’t expect him to be our answer for all 3 years coming up. Keeping and developing one outfielder as our full time solution is a most.
At this point, I think we need to sell high on Golson. Just my gut.
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I’m actually happy that teams undervalue what I consider to be plus prospects. It means they offer less if they are on the block. The result is we keep them in the system. Look at the Sabathia trade this year. They wanted Marson, and didn’t think anyone else was worth it on our team. We got Blanton instead and still won the World Series. I think we’ll miss Cardenas, but not as much as some others that might have left for Sabathia.
Ok, I’m done posting for awhile.
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Well said Joe.
No one is untouchable, but at the same time, no one is going anywhere unless there is an GREAT deal on the table. The market is deep and there are going to be bargains. The phils just won the world series. Its time to shop in order to supplement the core and make another run, not trade away the farm.
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Obviously who you’d trade depends on what you’d get back. I wouldn’t trade Donald, Marson, Taylor, or Carassco unless we’re getting young cost controlled players back. Anyone else is fair game. I don’t think we have to worry about Drabek getting traded since he’s coming off the injury.
The salary increases at the major league level might be a blessing in disguise. I don’t think Amaro is going to have enough payroll flexibility to trade kids for veterans.
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Oh, and RJ Swindle…He’s definitely untouchable (hear that, Rocky!!!)
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I’m taking a different approach with this list. No prospect is untouchable, but I’d rather trade a hyped prospect than one who’s stock is low. This is a list of currently undervalued prospects who shouldn’t be traded, unless the trade partner really likes them.
1) Drabek – Value should skyrocket this year; could be our top prospect by July.
2) Savery – I’ve been his harshest critic, but his stock must be extremely low after two disappointing seasons.
3) Marson – I don’t buy the low GB%/high BABAP criticism, and consider him a solid MLB catching prospect. I’d trade him, but only as a centerpiece.
4) Hewitt – Far too early to sell those millions of powerball tickets we bought last year.
5) Carrasco – Not before his 10th MLB start.
6) D’Arnaud – Probably a better prospect than Marson. I’d put him around where Cardenas was last year.
7) Stutes – Just a special pitcher. Pitched Washington State to a national championship.
8) Kendrick – I guess he’s no longer a prospect, but he’s better than he pitched last year. He’s at least a decent long reliever.
9) Knapp – How many 18 year olds throw 100mph?
10) BJ Rosenberg – We could use a reliever who throws 92-94 from a low-sidearm angle.
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Thinking about the current state of baseball, the best thing for the Phillies Pharm system may be that the won the WS this year. The big-time pressure is off, so there’s no great need to raid the minors to try to win now. They have a grace period in which, as long as they are no terrible, people will come in droves and just enjoy the ride.
The postseason highlighted the two keys to the Phillies success: 1) Home-grown talent and 2) building around that talent with spare parts. Hopefully Amaro sees that the Marson/Carrasco/Donald/etc. guys are the next wave that will help bring the next WS here.
Also, based on the previous history of pitchers going deep into the postseason, I wouldn’t expect too much from Hamels, Myers and Moyer (if he comes back) in 2009. Look at the Red Sox – Dice-K, Beckett and Shilling were their top pitchers in 2007 and all missed time in 2008. Same with the 2006 Tigers & Cardinals. We may need Happ and Carrasco a lot more than we think in 2009.
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If the right deal came along no one.
Maybe the only two are Marson and Drabek who I both think will be good , but I would trade them for the right deal.
Good luck Ruben.
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Drabek, Carrasco, Savery, Bastardo, Taylor, Brown and Marson. I’m really not into trading any of the young prospects until they are given some sort of chance with the Phillies. No more Ryne Sandbergs or Fergie Jenkins
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Any player higher up in the system than the ones listed at the positions below would be available under the right set of circumstances. To me these prospects rank at the top of their positions in the organization and are therefore untradeable Outfield LF Taylor, Center Berry, RF Brown, 3B Donald, SS Galvis, 2B H.Garcia, 1B Savery, Catcher Marson. I wouldn’t not trade any pitching unless it is a major deal breaker but Bisenius, Savage, Bear Hill, Cruse, Brummett, Bryd, Overholt, Brauer, Concepcion, Baez and Sanchez come to mind as expendable . Using this system that does not leave much of value for position players that any one might want other than the Golson, Harman, Jaramillo, Slayden, Milner, Derrick Mitchell types.
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dajafis post is beyond belief.donald is not a valuable prospect? any potential trade the phillies would make i guarantee you begins with him. i repeat hes is not going anywhere
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No one is untradeable. But Marson and Carrasco come close.
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I wouldn’t consider any prospect untouchable, which seems to be the general consensus. There are no David Price’s, Jay Bruce’s or Evan Longoria’s in our system. There are some guys who look like they could be strong players somewhere along the line for the Phillies, but GMs need to keep exploring ways to improve the major league team, and if we could get a proven impact player for a couple of these possible impact players that have been discussed- Marson, Donald, Carrasco, etc.- it has to be at least considered.
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This “Donald as trade bait ” is getting insane. check the stats on the olympics ,check the stats on the AFL. Donald is outperforming so many bigger names,Murphy,Flowers,Young, Petit,etc. If you open your eyes you will see,it isnt hard. I dont
want others garbage. Let me state it one more once
If they come here and stink they will still play no matter how “Jenkins” they are, no matter how “Taguchi ” they are
no matter how “Eaton” they are
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I don’t think the Phillies should trade any prospects this off season. We’re going to need our minor league pitchers badly at some point in the season…. just look at Cole Hamel’s pitching totals this year: 262.1 innings between the regular and post season. He only pitched 183.1 innings in 2007. That is a dangerously huge disparity.
Not to mention- they really don’t have any seriously glaring needs at this point so long as they keep the team together and manage to resign Jamie Moyer. Pat is an okay player… but his numbers would be entirely replaceable with some sort of cheap platoon.
They need to give all of these young guys opportunities to fight for playing time out of spring training and have them pulled along behind the veterans. And as for the statement to let Carrasco finish his development somewhere else.. lets learn from the last time we unloaded young pitching for an “Ace”…. Imagine how good Gavin Floyd would look in red pinstripes right now.
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What might Bastardo and Berry become? They’re only fringe major leaguers at this point, with Bastardo as a LOOGY and Berry as a 4th outfielder.
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Just the point Skunky we lost Floyd (tho is wasnt a fan but he grew) and also we lost an chance to put Happ in the rotation
and yes he was ready despite what the Phils claim check 2006 Reading stats
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I’ll go against the grain. Almost everyone is untouchable. I do not trust Amaro yet to get the right value for a very good prospect. Let me see what he does. He could be terrible and have some of the worst traits of Wade. He could be laying in the weeds ready to strike and fleece other GMs, having taken the best from his mentors. I doubt the latter, given his statements and style. I see nothing of the genius in him and maybe some arrogance, which I equate with stupidity. I am hoping I’m wrong, but until I see he can get very good value, I don’t hand him the chips.
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Nowheels I’m not exactly sure what your point is…. but as far as Floyd goes I know its pointless to cry over spilled milk but he won 16 games for the White Sox this year and we traded him for 1 win from Freddy Garcia. The FO needs to have more patience… they don’t need any band-aids right now so they are in prime position to take a wait and see approach on all of their young prospects.
Big blockbuster trades fail miserably more often than they put a team over the top. Just ask the Tigers… haha.
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Dominic Brown was recognized by the HWB as an all league outfielder and leading the league in hitting. He is definitely an untouchable.
“All-League outfielder Dominic Brown (Phillies) led Hawaii Winter Baseball with a .389 average and .506 on-base percentage. He also had six doubles and scored 13 runs for the Sharks”.
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“john from philly.ne Says:
November 17, 2008 at 8:03 pm
dajafis post is beyond belief.donald is not a valuable prospect? any potential trade the phillies would make i guarantee you begins with him. i repeat hes is not going anywhere”
He didn’t say that Donald doesn’t have value- he said he isn’t considered a top prospect. And its true, outside of phillies fans, Donald is considered a B+ kinda guy. Which good, I would think he fits in somewhere between 80 and 100 BA’s list- maybe not even in the top 100 at all. That means, he’s not considered a top prospect. He’s considered a good prospect, but not a top blue chip kinda guy.
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Did we imagine Donald outperforming these type A prospects
on the same stage??????????????????
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The point i was trying to make Skunky is that besides the obvious losses in the bad trade there are more subtle losses
like playing time Not given to younger players or even a player on the team squeezed out of playing time he need to develop
given to a well “Eaton”.
From now on lets call a really bad trade a “Willits”
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Actually what I would do, is rephrase the question. If you were the GM of another team, what players would you want the most? I would give up a top player if it were for a Peavy.
Noone wants to give up top talent for 2-3 failures, so lets be serious.
I believe this is what I would want from the Phillies if I was a GM. 1) Carrasco 2) Marston 3) Taylor and 4) Donald, then players farther away developmentally 5) Drabek 6) D’Arnaud 7) Brown and 8) Collier.
After that there are a dozen players I would want to grab who have potential, who are of unproven value at this moment that my team’s scouts would have reports on.
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Carrasco, D’Arnaud, Taylor & Drabek is what I would ask for..
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Taylor over Donald? Really? You realize Donald plays one of the toughest positions (SS) while Taylor plays one of the easiest (corner outfield)? In other words, it is WAY easier to find a Taylor than it is to find a Donald.
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Taylor is a 6 foot 6 monster with speed, power, potential for average and a laser for an arm. He has potentially 3 plus tools (arm, power, and avg) while Donald only has one (avg). Yes I would take Taylor over Donald anyday, and I would imagine so would a lot of other people. Donald projects to be an average shortstop with average defense, while Taylor could be a superstar. So yes, Taylor. Really.
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the fish captured what I meant about Donald: not that he won’t be a quality major leaguer, but that IMO he’s not perceived as the sort of guy you can make the centerpiece of a big trade–like Matt LaPorta in the Sabathia deal, or the Rangers’ catching prospects, or the Braves pitcher Hanson whom they refused to put in a deal for Peavy.
Carrasco and Marson might be guys in that category–high profile and more or less highly touted. A year from now, I think Drabek, Taylor and maybe Brown and D’Arnaud could be regarded that way too.
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I’m interested to see where Donald shows up as and at what grade once the majority of publications put out or top 10/20 and the MILB top 100. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised to see him jump up both lists. I’m curious as to what his PECOTA is going to be after this season.
Also, saying that Donald’s only tool is Avg is slightly disingenuous. If that were the case he would literally have a .309 avg with a slugging percentage of like… .350. This isn’t the case. He can probably hit 15 or so homeruns in the majors and coupled with doubles his slugging is going to be good. Is it going to be Utley/Howard/Werth like? No. But, if he can put up Aaron Rowand like numbers then I am all for it.
P.S Who would love to replace Burrell(If we can’t sign him) by trading for Aaron Rowand on the cheap. That outfield would be sick.
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Taylor and Donald are pretty even as prospects. Both split time at Lakewood/Clearwater as 22 year olds. Taylor’s OPS was about 100 points higher, but Donald obviously plays the tougher position. Taylor probably has a higher ceiling, Donald proved himself in AA (making the toughest jump in the minors very nicely)…I didn’t realize how huge Taylor’s arm was – he had 18 assists this year. PB mentioned speed potential, but he didn’t run much (or well) this year and his range numbers were nothing special. I imagine he’s going to fill out over the next few years and his speed will decrease further. Still, he makes it tough to sign BUrrell to the long term deal he undoubtedly wants when he could be ready in 2010.
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fish if other gms and so called valued publications consider donald a b prospect , which i dont believe for 1 minute, it shows you how much baseball america knows. as ive said i consider whay i see not what some mag says. check last years top 100. they were right onthe ball wernt they? as far as taylor i havent seen him so im not qualified,but 18 assists means every one ran on him,and i would prefer not to play a 6’6″ guy in the outfied.by the way check rollins,utleys,howards ranking in bb america.
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by the way in the win some lose some catagorie, i watched gavin floyd quite a bit this year and those who are torn apart by losing floyd dont be. though he won 16 games it points out to me that despite the stats and widely held assumption that the al is superior to the nl floyd could be bronson arroyos twin. fastball 92 slider. eminitly hitable. stack your lineup with lefties and hes gone. by the way fish the only phillie in the top 100 in ba is carrasco at 50. their certainly on the ball.lets see what the new one says.i trust nepp and nowheels alot more.
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The Correct answer is : none of them.
For the right player or players any of these guys
should go. Who would believe otherwise?
None of ’em are untouchable. 99% of the farm
system , currently, no one would conceivably want
to trade for. None of ’em are untouchable.
certainly not the cast of characters some on here
have thrown up. Jeremy Slayden? C’MON.
27 years old and just finishing AA. And the leagues
are looking to snap him up?
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The point is if you are not going to get dirt for some players there is no use trading them unless they are blocking someone. Is Slayden great no but there is ample space for him.
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Only Happ and Carrasco, because the rotation needs one of them next year and could need the other before the year is out. They fill immediate needs for the big club. You should never really trade pitching unless you’re getting some good pitching in return.
Otherwise, I agree with Baxter, only guys who you would be moving at a low point in their value (Drabek, Savery, Bastardo, etc.). By that same logic we should trade Donald because his value is as high as it’s ever been, right?
There are guys I have an affection for that I’d hate to see go (LOU MARSON, Taylor) but as long as the deal was good I’d learn to live with it.
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Here’s how I think about trades and the like with the current team.
1. Our team spends some money, but it is not the Yankees or the Red Sox (I love all the publicity about the Phils raising ticket prices – they were incredibly restrained and the prices are unbelievably reasonable compared to what the Yanks and Sox charge), so the team needs to come up with a balanced strategy to spend its money wisely, which, of course, means utilizing young talent.
2. The easiest way to deploy young talent is to use that talent to plug a talent deficiency on the team. Here, the current talent hole is at catcher (sorry, Carlos), third and outfield. The Phils’ two most ready prospects can play two of those positions (catcher, Marons, and third, Donald) and two of the better medium term prospects (Brown and Taylor) play outfield. So, yes, you could trade some of these guys (there’s no Barry Bonds in the group from all I can tell), but why would you do that when they fit right into your plans to improve the team?
3. As I said before, the team needs to be very careful about wasting early draft picks by signing a player that is only borderline. I don’t care if they sign Cruz to be a middle reliever, but they should do so only after he has refused arbitration so they do not have to surrender picks. They lost a lot of picks late in the Wade era and early in the Gillick era to sign guys who CLEARLY were not worth it.
4. The good news is that there are almost no emegencies at the big league level (losing Pat Burrell does not create an emegency, strangely enough, Jamie Moyer might be an emergency if he is not signed) and only a few medium term (as in next year) concerns. As hard as it is to believe, the team will probably jave very few holes to fill for next year, so this is an excellent opportunity for them to be stocking up on talent and signing solid players (Jayson Werth) to long term deals. In other words, it does not seem that they need to sacrifice any top prospect this year to obtain talent. It’s really pretty amazing – few championship teams have that luxury.
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1. Joe: Aaron Rowand is a reasonable comp for Donald. Rowand might have a shade more power at this stage of career,, but Donald balances that with more base hits and walks. Both like to hit line drives and have good gap doubles power. Maybe equally valuable offensive players, not powerhouses, but strong contributoirs.
2. I again say trade no one unless you get a Jake Peavy (signed long term) or some team changer like that. I doubt we get anything like that. The potential upgrade we might get for the type of player I suspect is available is not good enough. The value of the prospects is much higher for us, given their talent, youth, and cheapness. In today’s market, you have to overpay for crap. The only way to win is not to play. Same goes for signing iffy Type A FAs. Just say no.
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I agree with general sentiment that no one is untouchable in the right deal. But for me, the people I never like giving up is people whose value is at an all time low. One poster mentioned Kyle Drabek. I agree. Huge upside, value could not be lower. Let him mature. It is doubtful he is worth much to other teams anyway so I’d hate to see him thrown into a deal.
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Excellent points, Catch 22. Especially 2 and 4. They are the big strategic picture that a GM must keep in mind. There are no crying needs and our farm talent matches our needs in many cases. That means patience–and not overpaying for iffy returns that deplete our system–is the right strategic path.
If Amaro learned how to dumpster dive from Gillick and can keep adding the Victorinos Werths and Dobbs, then I will begin giving him credit.
Signing Moyer and maybe Burrell, adding a cheap RH bat if Burrell can’t be signed, and dumpster diving for diamonds on the rough to upgrade overall talent. That’s what Amaro should be thinking. He will try for a blockbuster, I think, but hopefully will know not to overpay and back out of unreasonable demands.
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Alex Lee. Your point about value vs. upside is good. The same can be said about Taylor, Savery, and a few others. Only Donald, Marson and Carrasco currently have big value and you would have to part with two of them and a few others to match a Braves package of Hanson (Hamels-like value) and others or another team’s similar package headed by a TOP prospect. So any deal that depletes our best prospects better give us a chance to win big for a few years in a row. I’m talking Peavy or Halladay or something like that. Maybe Ordonez? Not sure about him.
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Aaron Rowand is a reasonable comp for Donald
DD is know i am taking this out of contest but Rowand fell back to his 2006 stats. 2007 being a career year or a salary push. 2008 . 271 13 hr 57 runs 70 rbi doesnt add to to ten million in my book . For that money i would keep Pat and Donald
There is a reason Donald is at the high point of his value.
Does anyone think a full season of Donald would not match
those mediocre stats My favorite
McLouth’s stats .276 26 hr 94 rbi 113 runs. better fielder
and u keep your money for ……
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Devil’s advocate here, while Drabek’s stock is too low to trade, Donalds is at an all time high right now.
I think other teams view him as an elite prospect, even if we don’t see anything special in a potentially offensive-minded middle infielder.
Then again, we seem to have a number of those these days don’t we?
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Catch 22 f/k/a H Man
The real money is in TV any idea what their situation is
Not so long ago they couldnt even get a decent radio station
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NoWheels: Agree Donald matches or betters Rowand’s 2008 season as a rookie. I think Donald approaches Rowand’s best years after he gets comfortable, with fewer HRs by a little, but more singles and walks. Throw inthe likely good fielding from a solid SS, and what’s not to like until the next Rolen or Texiera clone comes along. By then, Donald moves over to 2B when Utley is about 35–or traded for good value.
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I don’t know what the Phils’ TV contract situation looks like – particularly whether it’s long term or not. However, it cannot go anywhere but up and the ball park is an unbelievable source of revenue, as are merchandising sales. Some of this is just one-time WS afterglow, but a lot of it, such as ball park money, is probably real and will last as long as the team competes for division titles (which should at least be the next 2-3 years). The Bank is an unqualified success from every possible viewpoint. The only negative is that it is not sitting in Center City, but I think Ashburn Alley was (smartly) designed to overcome this deficiency as they have created a street within the ball park. Pretty brilliant.
By the way, just for snickers, three years ago, did anyone imagine that we’d be calling Andy Reid the idiot and Charlie Manuel the genius? It’s amazing what winning or losing does to your perception of things.
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Look, I like Taylor as much as the next guy. It’s just hard to know what he’ll do when facing competition closer to his own age.
I also think people are really missing the point on why Donald is so valuable. Look at major league shortstops: Last year, exactly 5 had an OPS over 800; only 14 had an OPS over 700. If, as we think, Donald projects to .290/.350/450, that makes him one of the 5-10 best hitters at his position in the majors.
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Catch 22: Great points. Along the same lines as what I was thinking regarding both prospects and FAs. I would also put pitching in the same category in point 2.
NoWheels: While Donald has performed well, I’m not sure he’s been “outperforming” Murphy/Flowers/Young/Petit.
~ Jason Donald (INF) – .422/.484/.737 – 21 Runs, 16 RBI, 11 2Bs, 17 XB hits
~ Eric Young (OF) – .424/.500/.587 – 33 Runs, 19 SBs, 16 RBI, 8 XBH
~ Tyler Flowers (C) – .394/.463/1.014 – 25 Runs, 12 HRs, 22 RBI
~ Daniel Murphy (2B) – .397/.487/.619 – 22 Runs, 18 RBI, 10 XBH
~ Chris Pettit (RF) – .356/.416/.538 – 27 Runs, 17 RBI, 7 SBs, 13 2Bs, 17 XBH
While Donald has done very well, these guys are no slouches. Also, there are also a slew of other guys putting up big numbers.
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Seth, the issue with Donald is no GM goes by Minor League stats only. Everyone uses some combination of scouting report value + stat value = percieved value. The issue with Donald is although he stat value shows someone who could be a top 10 shortstop he is dogged by the scouting report value that led him to be a 5th round draft pick. A lot of those concerns on range and power persist. It takes more then what’s he’s done to erase that.
He is extremely valuable if you believe his performance in the last year trumps the book written on him in the prior 6 years.
I’m not saying where I stand, just trying to show you the other side of the coin.
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Boston and New York have huge TV rights money that fuels
their farm system that was even before in response to the luxury tax George reorganized and al least doubled his take
Rodeo it is the Perceided part that worries my. In the past the phils got an idea and held on to it like a junk yard. Maybe Ruben will be more opened minded and aware of the day to day. month to month situation
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Wasn’t Donald a real hot commodity (tools-wise) going into college, then fell down draft boards due to bad college production?
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i believe that no one is untrade-able in sports. everyone has a price. now, clubs might disagree with a price, but that is a different convo.
regarding value, i would trade our top three prospects (carasco, marson and donald) for peavy if we could sign him to a long term deal and afford it under our budget without having to blow up something else.
honestly, i love watching reading about these guys, and i think that those three will be productive mlb players. marson might be an all star. but nothing made me happier than winning the world friggin series (to quote utley). adding a young, cy young quality pitcher to go in between hamels and meyers and then hand off to our bullpen. ohhh…that would be fun to watch for the next 4-5 years. by that time, we will have replaced all three of those prospects.
p.s. i subscribe to the theory that the only value of a minor league system is to help the big club. i don’t necessarily care about a prospect. just if he can be a chip to help get us closer to the series. even if he goes somewhere else and is productive, so be it. realistically, we only have a few openings in our club over the next 4-5 years. 1. top of the rotation starter; 2. catcher and 3b are mlb average so could be an upgrade; 3. right field if burrell leaves. i could do with ruiz and feliz for a while if i could add a peavey type pitcher. all of the other spots are solid.
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I’m not sure about Donald pre-college, I was just referring to the ‘book’ on him coming out of college. Now that you mention it Seth, I think you are right.
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I want to use just one example of trading good minor league players for pieces that I believe are not necessary. In 05, Kelvin Parchardo was traded to the Giants for OF Michael Tucker. This last year Parchardo was arguable the best minor league reliever within their system and appears to be a candidate for the Giant’s staff. Where is Michael Tucker?
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Another strategic reason for keeeping Donald and Marson: Both have good batting eyes, don’t try to swing for the fences on bad pitches, provide disciplined ABs, make contact and take walks. We need to continue developing this type of player to mix in with our sluggers. We have been hitting HRs for several years. One of the marked and recognized traits of the 2008 team (Maddon was surprised at how intelligent and purposeful our ABs were and commented in the press) was the ability to put up back-breaking ABs against good pitchers and wear down opponent starters or shaky relievers. That is due to the discipline that Utley, an improved Rollins, Werth, Dobbs, Burrell much of the time, and others–even Howard, when he got in a groove and reduced his frustration/impatience level.
These guys will help us play better small ball when needed–That is, take what the pitcher gives and stroke base hits or doubles instead of flailing at strike 3 on a sucker pitch.
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The minor league comparisons between Utley and Donald are frighteninly similar. Two years into pro baseball, most scouts including thePhillies own, viewed Utley as a utility guy. Tried him at third with bad results. Utley always improved as the season went on at each level. Donald does the same. Both have short compact swings. Utley did not demonstare much power until his last full season in the minors. Donald is starting to show power, as well.
In short, I would trade Donald.
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Airborneranger – i don’t think that anyone on this blog (or on planet earth) would suggest trading good minor league players for pieces that aren’t necessary.
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Art:
You wrote “In short, I would trade Donald.” Either you are missing the word “not” or you are being sarcastic because this conclusion does not follow from your analysis.
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To be honest I am probably in the minority thinking that now is the time to strike to stock the system. Trade off Howard, Rollins, and Myers to start. Get the best prospects you can for those 3. Between Feliz, Harmon, Donald, and Utley the INF would be set. Dobbs could spot start at 1st too. Myers is still too much of question mark as a #2. Yeah he had a great 2nd half, but he reverted back at the end of the year and October. Rollins’ contract should also help with the quality of prospects in return. Since we actually won the WS, I wouldn’t have a problem with pulling a Marlins-esque bomb.
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Ummmmm… seriously?
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Hmmm. Blow up a WS contending team to rebuild the farm system.
You do realize the only reason the Marlins did so was because of $$$ and not because it was the right thing to do?
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The ML team should contend again. No reason to blow it up. That’s for three years from now during the trade deadline on Howard’s walk year.
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What a joke that post was. How bout we put money into the draft and international signings to build up the farm? Not trade three guys that just led you to the promised land.
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Utley was never viewed as a utility guy. He was a #1 pick (#15 overall) and was widely consider one of the best college hitters coming in that draft. The question about him was his ability to play 2b well enough to stay there.
He was tried at 3b because the Phillies had Polanco at 2b and they were trying to find a place for his bat…
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I’m not interested in the Phillies trading any of our prospects, unless we can trade with Ed Wade again. Otherwise, the between season trades really haven’t worked well for us and by removing prospects, they reduce the ability to contain the budget enough to field a contending team in future years. We have the WS increase in revenue and its driving of an increase in ticket prices, so the team should bite the salary bullet for one season when they are awash in revenue and fill any critical gaps by FA rather than trade.
If I had to prioritize, I’d say you definitely can’t trade Donald and Marson, since they can be really cheap above average position players within a year. You can’t trade Happ and Carrasco, because they are likely needed on this years team. Taylor, Garcia, D’Arnaud and Drabek just have too bright a future to be traded.
If you put a gun to my head and said Ruben just absolutely wants to trade, who should he trade, I would nominate Jaramillo, Golson, Carpenter, and a stretch to Savery and Brown.
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Right about Utley. The question wasn’t really whether he would hit (though patience was a concern at one point, I remember), but, one, whether he’d field enough to stay at 2b and two, whether he’d hit more like Todd Walker or Jeff Kent.
I think it all worked out okay.
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Mike told you all you needed to know about the quality of his advice when he listed Harman as an IF starter for the 2009 big Phillies. Isn’t this the guy who struggled with the Mendoza line in AA? Yep, he’s certainly going to be a solid major leaguer next season.
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Donald just popped another one to left in the AFL. My count has that as his 22nd homer this season. And Lou Marson just singled in Jeremy Slayden with the second run. They make it look so easy in the desert!
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Carlos Lee is supposedly available, so maybe we can trade with Ed Wade again.
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****Utley was never viewed as a utility guy. He was a #1 pick (#15 overall) and was widely consider one of the best college hitters coming in that draft. The question about him was his ability to play 2b well enough to stay there.****
That’s not exactly true…my 2005 BaseballProspectus pegged him as a UT type guy because of his defensive issues and lack of a clear position. So did some other scouts who didn’t like the way he looked. He surprised everyone with just how good he really is.
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I never said that Harman was going to bat well, I think defensively he could hold his ground. I would be very surprised if one of the big names isn’t traded just purely based on the ownership groups lack of desire into investing into the club. They never want to spend on anything at any level, so why not get top prospects that could be close to the show and drop the payroll. Sometimes the quality of advice depends on the perception of the recipient.
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If you went back and looked at the overall consensus on Utley it was a LOT like the book on Donald – .280 hitter, 15-20 hr power, nice line drive swing, will play in the majors, but has no real position. THAT was the book on Utley and that is precisely why I don’t pay too much attention to those who downgrade Donald. I have been saying this for months and will say it again – Donald is going to be a big time player. He may not be as good as Utley or Rollins, but he is going to be an important part of this team very, very soon.
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baxter Says
Carlos Lee is supposedly available, so maybe we can trade with Ed Wade again.
Did we trade with ole Ed I thought that was a gift for all the damage he did here.
Nepp I would like to think that the Phils looked at Utley’s heart and saw that he would become a good defensive player but
So far so good.
To get Lee u need to trade someone who can run that is Ed’s
only requirement baseball playing not necessary
Golson????
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Sorry about that, forgot the word “not”.
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Carlos Lee? We don’t need that money added to our payroll. If you add Carlos Lee, that’s just less money that the Phils will offer Hamels and Howard. And, please, do not write post about how the Phils should do both – they won’t, that’s the reality, like it or not. There’s a bigger but limited pot here and that’s just the way it is. Lee takes money out of that pot for more important players. I can live without him. Now, if we’re talking about Jake Peavy, then we’re getting somewhere.
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PP, whether that was the intention or not, it none the less happened. Those in the system knew that Parchardo was as least as good as Edgar Garcia, who was being heralded as a significant prospect. On the whole I think the Phillies evaluate talent as good as the next team. An no doubt Parchardo was deem expendable. I just hate to see youngster traded for likes of a Michael Tucker.
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in present day terms i see donald as a ryan zimmerman but will have work har to reach his defensive ability . offensively very similar. does anyone remember what ” the book ” on larry bowa was? you know what paul owens and hugh alexander thought of ” the book “. as i said the only phillie in the book last year was carrasco #50.alexander used to watch akid for a week and say “s%it that boy can play,and he was usually right.but we all know what happened when green and hughie went to chicago.i think we all agree donald and marson right now are quality players just ask yourself are they going up down or leveling.i think you know the answer. and if their going up you would have to insane to trade them.
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antonio bastardo has to be an untouchable.
think about it. everyone’s worried about breaking up the team if they can’t afford the salaries. the difference might single handedly be made up by league wide Bastardo merchandise sales.
Bastardo jerseys and t-shirts might cover the cost of ryan howard and cole hamels long term contracts.
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Allentown nails it. I wouldn’t trade any of the top prsopects. NONE! Why should they? There’s no absolute critical need. Has anyone really sat down and done an extrapolation of the Phillies payroll 3 years out? You’d be amazed what you’d see. These minor leaguers will be needed badly and they will make it in the majors and produce. Not stars like Utley, Rollins, Howard, Hamels, except for Drabek, but main contributers for a winning contending team.
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Take note it seems the bigger the game the Donald and Marson shine
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the more they shine sorry
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“That’s not exactly true…my 2005 BaseballProspectus pegged him as a UT type guy because of his defensive issues and lack of a clear position. So did some other scouts who didn’t like the way he looked. He surprised everyone with just how good he really is.”
Nepp,
in 2005, Chase Utley was starting his 3rd year (and 1st full season) in the majors and was being questioned because he was sub-par at 2b. I don’t doubt what you’re reading in the baseball Prospectus but there is a difference between how Utley was being viewed as a long-term ML player vs. how Donald is viewed as a player at the AA level.
Utley was viewed as a big league bat without a position while Donald is viewed as an glove with a suspect bat! Hopefully both assessments prove to be wrong.
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Juan Cruz- somebody up top says the Phillies can avoid
losing a 1st round pick if Cruz declines arbitration.
That’s the way they lose a 1st round pick, that and
signing him before the arbitration date.
The only way they avoid losing a 1st round pick is
if he is not offered arbitraation.
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See the 40 man has taken on an international flavor with Carrasco, Escalona, Naylor and my man Joel Naughton just added.
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superfly ive extrapslated their payroll for 3 years, actually a few days ago, 2011 howard 25 mil utley 15 mil rollins 15 mil donald 1 mil marson 1 mil taylor 1 mil victorino 10 mil werth 7 mil 5 bench players 5 mil. total 77 mil staff hamels 20 mil myers 12 mil blanton 5 mil happ 3 mil carrasco 3mil. total43 mil bullpen lidge 10 mil madson 5mil romero 3mil eyre 3mil durbin 1mil 2mil for pitchers unknown total 24 mil. grand total 77 & 43 & 24 = 144. mil and that is on the low side. by the very good point.
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Did anyone see the story in the Inquirer about the changes to the scouting staff? A lot of people moving, no notes on who left. I don’t know enough to read between the lines on it. Anyone have any comments? James?
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John, you’ve got some of the numbers right. According to Cots, Rollins has a $8.5MM option for 2011, Romero has a $4.5MM option and Lidge is $11.5MM. Happ, Donald, Marson, Carrasco and Taylor wouldn’t even be arbitration eligible, so they’d only be about 500k each. The Hamels number seems high, probably more like $12-15MM. Madson is a FA after this year and I’d be surprised if he’s back. Blanton is a FA after 2010, so who knows there. I’d hope that some of our picthcing prospects could fill another starting spot and a couple pen spots and save some money. I’d expect it to be closer to $120 million.
Given all the information provided on this site, I would expect that we’ll have enough cheap talent to fill out the roster and keep the payroll reasonable in 2010, 2011 and beyond.
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Good for the Aussies Naylor and Naughton! I’m excited to see Naughton on there after seeing how well he performed in Lakewood this year – he’s made great strides in his defense, and was great managing the younger pitchers of the SAL.
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werth maybe surplanted by Brown
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John. Howard will never see that figure from the phillies, your numbers are higher than they would go. Hamels will never see 20 million from this organization, more like 17. rollins never see 15 million at age 34. more likely either donald or galvis will be the shortstop. victorino at 10 is high too. in my opinion howard will be gone and If Hamels doesn’t give a home town discount he too will go.
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my numbers are only based on estimates, i could be 50 mil off, the 0only thing i would believe with some certainty is hamels will absolutely be here for his career, and i believe howard will despite the phillies past. i think 140.000,000 is an absolute minimum . theyll be at 120 this year. we all know you have to pay to play and i believe they finally know it . winning a ws is something that is addictive, plus the extra revenue is incredible.which i know they know. i think i heard that their mercendise sales is number 1 in history, passing the r.sox
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The Phillies will not endure the public humiliation of losing both Howard and Hamels. My guess is that they make the right choice and keep Hamels. Howard is outstanding but, at some level, they can get a power hitting first baseman. Staff aces are rare and, as we saw last month, they bring you championships. They need to break the bank and sign Hamels long term, I do not think he can be replaced.
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I think the Phils should wait a year to sign Hamels. For reasons I stated above, he’s a SERIOUS injury concern going into th ’09 season…. not to mention his value won’t get any higher than it is right now in terms of a multiyear contract. They have him under team control for a few seasons and his arbitration price will be high this year but won’t dramatically grow in the coming seasons… so they might as well wait it out.
The difficulty with Howard is not his overall market value but his perceived value… he probably thinks he’s worth a lot more than he actually is. We can afford him… but not at the imaginary price that he wants.
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catch when you say they can get a power hitting 1st baseman you understand howard is one of the greatest power hiters of all time,not look at his hr,s per ab, his rbis per ab their up their with foxx, gehrig, mccovey. your watching history. say the phils go arbitration for 2 years and howard gets 35 million. if they sign him to a contract for 7 years at 25 per. hell be 36, at the end. 175 mil for 7 years you cant afford not to sign him. hell make 175 mil in 2 years in mercendising and playoff revenues.whats he have 1800 abs,a guess, 175 hrs that 1 in 11 that is ruthian. 450 rbi,s in 500 games thats close to gehrig who was the greatest rbi man of ALL TIME. maybe we can trade him to get money to produce ” no no nanette ” thus insuring the curse of ryan.
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John f p.ne – Great in theory but Howard’s camp has let it be known he will not trade his arby years in for a discount and will only sign for ‘A-Rod money’. As much as a deal similar to Utley’s, albeit with a higher $ per year, makes sense for both parties, he won’t sign it.
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rodeo he should get a rod money, thats the point. 25 mil a year is what he is worth. put him on the market and i guarantee he gets 25 mil. if texeria gets 20 is anyone trying to tell me howard is not werth more than texeria. i repeat compare his stats to those of the all time greats. hrs per ab and rbis per game.
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If you guys are right and they cant sign Howard I would talk to the NYY right now. He fits them like a glove and they have
players.
I agree Hamels is more important. He will be 25 next season, past the years when he is considered maturing and less prone
to pitch count injuries. Hopefully
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marson, d. brown, and drabek, i really like the way brown approaches hitting, hes become a very patient hitter as he has gotten older and draws alot of walks and also hits for a high average, after marson’s tremendous year last year and the phils need for a catcher that can hit, i dont think the phils can trade him, and drabek has tremendous stuff has looked good since surgery
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Agreed on D. Brown titan, he blew away his PECOTA top expected performance this year particularly in walks and strike outs.
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merchandise Was running from 160,000 a day to 220,000. That is what they were saying they were doing locally on wip.They couldn’t keep up with the items. But anyone who has followed this team knows in there heart they won’t ante up for Howard. no matter what money they bring in, if john middleton was running the team yes but not with these other owners. Especially winning this year while getting lesser starter and winning ,they will now in my opinion be of the opinion why do we need lowe when we have blanton why a high price player like bradley for left when we have jenkins and stairs with a Golson platoon. to compare its like andy reid winning and getting to super bowl then thinking I can win without a fullback or star linebacker. sometimes they get a big head and think nomatter who they run out there they will win because there smarter than the others. for the phillies it work once in 28 years.
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Donald garners 2008 Stenson Award. A triputes to man himself
what else can he do. If he isnt Utley replug I am very wrong
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Gotta like what his coach Ryne Sandberg said about Donald receiving the AFL award:
“Jason possesses all of the qualities this award is all about — tremendous work ethic, a true leader and he plays the game of baseball the right way,” Sandberg added. “He’s been a pleasure to be around. He could be a guy who we see in the Major Leagues next year.”
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Answer to the question:
Who are the untradable prospects.
The answer is they are all tradable. Some are more tradable then others but they are all tradable.
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John, that’s not the point. Whether or not he deserves it is moot, the point is that the Phillies will not, and should not, surrender their only bargaining chip with him, that they control him through arbitration for three more years and sign him at an open market deal. It would be stupid to do so and set a terrible precedent. It’s called ‘negotiations’ and from what I’ve read his camp is not willing to do it.
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Utley out 4 to 6 months with hip surgery – I’d say that makes Donald untradeable, given that he got some work at 2B during the AFL. I’d much rather have him playing any early season games Utley misses instead of Bruntlett – Donald’s offensive profile is a much closer match to Utley’s, minus the power.
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!
It will be interesting to see how the Phils approach this injury – figuring that Utley may miss the first month of the season. Do they still have the rights to Iguchi? Let Tad and Donald duke it out in Spring Training
– Jeff
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rodeo if the phillies give him what he wants and deserves now 25 mil for 7 years hewill be 36 when his contract expires. at 36 his value will be depressed. he will never get a long term contract at 36. if the phillies wait 2years and try to sign him his value will be 30 mil. he will be 31. he will want 30 mil for 7 years which at 31 would bring him to 38,which they will never do,at that agethats why if your going to sign him you have to do it this year one thing just tell me you realize statistically he is one of the greatest hitters in bb history.tell me that his hr ratio is comparerable to ruth,the greatest player of all time and his rbi per game ratio is equal to gehrig,foxx and dimaggio.because it is indispuable.thats all i want for people to realize what their willing to let go of..
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just got the news that utley will have hip surgery and feliz will have back surgery. now is anyone in the mood to trade donald?
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No, no reason to trade Donald now. He might start
off at 2B, since Utley might be out until late June.
They have already released Iguchi, but I see talk
they might want to re-sign him as a Middle Infield
back-up to team with Bruntlett.
Oh, and Howard? They tender an offer and pay what
he gets in arbitration. He is too iffy as a long-term
proposition. He isn’t likely to get over $15 million
in arbitration, so why should they do the equivelent
of shoveling $10 million into an incinerator?
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Here’s the problem with that John:
7X25 = $175 total
3×15(avg. arb for next three years) + 4×30(FA contract) = $165 total
This doesn’t even factor in the time value of money which would skew this even further.
It’s not in the Phillies interest to extend him now at market rates when they will have just as much opportunity to pay him market rates as any other team in three years.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m pro-player, but I like to fancy myself an armchair GM, and as an armchair GM signing him now at market value doesn’t make sense!
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Good point MARTIS if there is no home town discount then you night as well save the 10 mil for a future contract or another player.
The Phils might do well to hire Sandbery for a month or two
to help Donald convert. He could help anyone He was such a complete player that when he got thrown out at home plate one time The crowd reacted like that was impossible and that was an opponent crowd.
I wonder what this does to Bruntlett They might now go for someone better
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Ya, and Donald is untradeable. He’s making the team out of ST now.
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The five untouchables are Drabek, Marson, Savery, Knapp, & Carrasco. The fact is four of our best players last year were homegrown Utley Howard Hamels, & Jroll throw in Myers & Burrell and it shows that keeping your prospects like Ed Wade did is the way to go. I keep reading Dontrelle Willis is available on the cheap why not make a run at him and get him back in the national league ans with his friend Jroll??
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Depends on what you mean by on the cheap. Willis is owed $22 for the next 2 years and was a total disaster in 08?
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Remember when baseball people kept putting Dontrelle up as the posterboy for not needing pitch counts with pitchers under
25. I guess ole Leyman might forget the old days for a while.
I quess Harman now joins the untouchable list. He has a great chance to redeem himself in spring training
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willis has had a dead arm for 2 years. he was overused and once batters adjusted to his wild gyratios he was nothing more than average leftie.
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I only have one untradeable… Marson… I want him starting at catcher opening day.
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Drabek
Taylor
Bastardo
Worley
Brown
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Untouchable Drabek, ####that’s it. Get me a top of the line pitcher and anyone but Drabek is game.
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