Rough day for the kids

Spring Training 2008

As some of you may have found out, yesterday was not kind to Joe Savery and Josh Outman, both making their first spring training appearances.

Savery: 1.0 IP — 4 H — 5 ER — 1 BB — 2 K
Outman: 1.2 IP — 5 H — 4 ER — 0 BB — 2 K

Also making his debut was Rule 5 pick Lincoln Holdzkom. He also had a tough time throwing strikes, but came away unscathed.

Holdzkom: 1.0 IP — 1 H — 3 BB – 1 K

And finally, Jason Donald got his first taste of spring training. He went 1 for 2 with a run scored, committed an error at SS and also started a double play. Jason Jaramillo went 0 for 1 with a BB

Savery may have struggled, but in this article he says he learned a few things, and thats really what spring training is about. Savery’s poor showing yesterday, and his struggles during his AFL stint don’t really worry me, what continues to worry me is his health and his mechanics. I’m not an expert on the issue of pitching mechanics, but it is something I’ve studied a bit recently. What really worries me is the position of his pitching elbow, and how that might continue to cause arm/shoulder trouble down the road. The “Inverted W” seems to be a big problem around baseball in terms of pitchers coming down with injuries, and Savery’s pitching arm is in a similar position. Here is a picture of Savery that highlights what I’m talking about…

savery.jpg

It will just be something we have to hope for the best on.

23 thoughts on “Rough day for the kids”

  1. Poor AFL stint? The walks were worrisome, but the results were pretty fine. Long-term, he obviously won’t be able to get away with that kind of K/BB ratio, but given that he hasn’t shown consistent wildness in his college career or in the NYPL last season, I’m not that worried about it.

    Also, I wonder if the organization has done anything to correct his mechanics–it’s not entirely shocking that Rice didn’t do so…

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  3. If he’s a failed experiment on the mound, what are the chances of him turning in to a hitting prospect? he played 1B right? Could he also play LF?

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  4. guys it’s still febuary, they had one bad outing. plus there was a 30 mph wind blowing out yesterday. lets not rush to judge yet. give the kids more of a chance

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  6. Maybe I worded it wrong or just sounded a bit over anxious.

    I am all for Savery and am not judging this outing as the end of the world, however, he is a player who had success with the bat so I was just wondering if he doesn’t pan out could that bat translate to the majors? That’s all. I remember you saying that its easier to stop hitting and find your stroke again than it is to stop pitching and than find your “stuff” again.

    Savery still has a ways to go but sounds like a mature guy who can handle the bumps in the road.

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  7. Not to worry. Rich Dubee said they both get a mulligan. Now … put the guy I’ve touted in there, Carpenter, and let’s see how he does.

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  8. Excellent comment about Savery’s mechanics and thanks for the photo evidence. I couldn’t agree more. He looks like he’s using the anti-Outman method. I also detect center-of-gravity issues. I don’t think mechanics is a show-stopper for him, I’m sure he’s getting tons of instruction. Savery himself has admitted that he’s raw and still has to learn to pitch. When he does, look out.

    In a worst case scenario I think he could be re-tooled into a position player a la Rick Ankiel, but no way are the Phillies going to give up on him as a pitcher this year or next.

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  9. Savery just has a courtesy, or I guess contract-mandated, ST mandate. He’s got half a year in pro ball and is two years away from Philly. Outman is a guy who could contribute this season, so his numbers a little more worrisome, but this is his first game and he did get a K/IP.

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  10. You know who else hasn’t had a good spring training so far, giving up a double, triple, and three-run homer in two innings? Johan Santana.

    It was only one game.. let’s keep our heads.

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  11. I think we are keeping our heads. It is just nice to have some fresh data to look at and discuss. I am so sick of the off season, lets get some more ST games!

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  12. It’s a balance, you talk about the results but you don’t putting a first baseman’s mitt on his hand over it!

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  13. Anyone know anything about Casey Smith who went 3-4 today? There are three Casey Smiths listed in Basebal Ref in minors.

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  14. Saw the “B” game today in Bradenton and thought I would give a report on the prospects who played. I was surprisingly most impressed with Golson, especially because of all the negatives you hear about him. Granted it was only one game but he hit a hard ground single up the middle , was out on a bunt attempt, and crushed a homerun in his last AB. So here’s hoping the confidence he gained after a decent AFL season has allowed him to turn the corner. Definitely will be watching him every chance I get. The other prospects(Marson, Harmon and Donald) weren’t as impressive but did look solid with the bats. Defensively, I thought they were all were good except for Donald. He did not look very Smooth with the glove or his footwork, he will have to improve if he wants to remain at SS at the major league level.

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  15. Interesting look at his motion- the other criticism of his college mechanics was that his glove hand and should come open too soon as he delivers- in this photo he glove seems particularly extended and high (probably helps with deception). Yet when you watch his delivery he looks pretty smooth- so here’s hoping some of these things get worked out. As for the inverted ‘W’, some wouldn’t look to correct, and obviously, someone is teaching it- they say to add power during the loading of the shoulder- but i could see where it helps to hide the ball behind the body longer. But, thats usually one of the first rules to working out is to avoid weight excercises that raise the elbow above the shoulder- so theres gotta be something to it.

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  17. Coaching at the collegiate level can be all over the place. Unless you end up playing for someone like Jerry Weinstein (former Cal Poly pitching coach), then you can, even at top D1 schools end up playing for a pitching coach that knows little about the subtleties of pure mechanics. Often times you end up with coaches that “fill in” as the pitching coach, because they are on their way up the ladder and are looking for their own programs.

    I hope that the coaching in the Phillies system is better than I have heard. Seems that many of the guys that have gone through the system complain that at certain levels they believe in coaching through repitition, rather than grilling on mechanics. Seems to me there were quite a few complaints even on this site last summer that “the roving hitting instructor(s)” were less than inspiring.

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  22. Carrasco has looked good so far too. Love his poise under pressure, and he had a few filthy knockout pitches today.

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  23. I caught the Phillies – Yankees on YES (3/2). I was impressed by Carrasco (3 IP, 3 H, 3 K, 0 R). He was getting people out. He was getting ahead on most of the hitters. He enticed a DP ball. I liked that he pitched equally well from the wind-up and the stretch.

    Holdzkom was impressive to me too. The Yanks scored a run off him but 1B Andy Tracy handed that one to them. First he does a backhand ole on a throw from Casey Smith. They gave the Yankee a hit on that. Then Holdzcom tries to pickoff the runner at first. Tracy again gives it a half-hearted effort and the ball gets by him. the YES announcers are saying that’s got to an error on Tracy but it went on Holdy. Another hit and you’ve got a run.

    Ron Chiavacci looked exceptional. Struck out Wilson Betemit with some nasty stuff. Who the heck is Valentino Pascucci? He spent more time watching the ball than swinging at it. Golson had a nice single to plate the eventual tying run. He stole a base and made a really nice diving catch. He also made a nice throw to home on the Yankees tying run. It hit the grass lip at the front on the mound and bounced up in the air. If it took the hop he was expecting there would have been a play at the plate for sure.

    One other thing: Carrasco pitched really fast. Got the ball and threw it. No horsing around. Reminded me of Lieber in that respect. I thought Jaramillo should have tried to slow him down a bit when he had a couple of guys on the bases. The batters were stepping out trying to mess with him.

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