Today is the last day for the depth charts. We’ll focus on relievers today. Try to only discuss/nominate guys who are current relievers, not guys who are starting now but in 3 years might be bullpen guys. The one exception could be Pat Overholt, who was a reliever, then switched to starting last year, but is likely to be a reliever again, probably at some point this year. So let’s figure out the relievers, and over the weekend I’ll try and update the main depth chart tag at the top of the page to reflect my opinions as well as the sentiments expressed in all of these discussions over the last few days. I think this has been a worthwhile exercise, as it’s really highlighted exactly where our strengths and weaknesses are as a system. Thanks for the participation.
22 thoughts on “Depth Charts, Relief Pitchers”
Comments are closed.
Phuture Phillies 
Mathieson,Bisenius,Overholt,Castro,Savage,Matt German,Garet Hill
LikeLike
I read somewhere last October that Overholt will be a reliever only from now on. Will Savage is my sleeper as he was lights out in the FSL playoffs last year going multiple innings.
LikeLike
I’ll put Zagurski at the top of my list because although he was up last year, he’ll likely start at AAA this year. After him, I would have Matheison, Castro, Bisenius, and Bear Hill. I’m not sold on Overholt but this will be a telling year for him as he’ll probably stay in the pen. I know there are other good arms like Savage in the lower levels but I’m not that familiar with them and if they’re not starting below AA, iys often because they’re not thought to be as good a prospect by the organization.
For those that didn’t notice it, there’s a podcast with Steve Kline (of Baseball America) on readingphillies.com about the Phillies prospects.
LikeLike
I think any major league reliever is going to be a guy who was a starter in the minors. Zagurski is a one trick pony without enough control. I am intrigued by Mathieson and possibly Outman in the bullpen
LikeLike
Still upside-biased:
Mathieson, Bisenius, Zagurski, Castro, Savage, Overholt, German, Hill.
Decent a group as we have had, when you consider we are ignoring many starters with real promise and these are the relievers only (with the exception of Mathieson, who I included as a setup/closer type and will have to show a 2-pitch pony can start in the majors–not likely).
I am encoraged by this exercise. I think we are deeper than some pundits give us credit for. We don’t have the As and near-As, but we are playing the numbers game pretty well, especially with pitchers, but some decent possibilities at 2B and OF. Then there are few guys like Taylor, etc. who might come alive with wood bats eventually and upgrade the system more. I see our system as bottom third on the surface but with a good enough number of B-prospects and sleepers, that a few of them might rise through the system and hit the high minors, if not make it to Philly. Another good draft in JUne and we might break through to the middle third.
LikeLike
Matheison,Bisenius, Castro,Zagurski, Overholt
LikeLike
Mathieson, Zagurski, Bisenius, Savage, Overholt, Castro, German, Hill.
LikeLike
If healthy, Mathieson tops the list, followed by Bisenius (if healthy). Hill, Savage, Willey, Overholt would be next, in no particular order – although Hill might be highest. Despite getting rocked in Hawaii, the team still thought enough of him to send him there.
– Jeff
LikeLike
I agree with the near consensus that the key guys are Mathieson, Bisenius, Zagurski, Overholt. I’d follow those with Savage, German, Hill and then I think some of the older pitchers from this last draft were picked to fast-track as middle relievers. Chapman, Rocchio, Brummett seem the most interesting.
LikeLike
A guy to watch is Moises Melendez. He put up good numbers as a lefty reliever late in the VWL. Watch for Brett Harker to put up better numbers and lefty soft tosser R. J. Swindle to get the job done out of the pen. Minor league free agent RHP Justin Pope put up some nasty numbers in the VWL as he went 16.2 innings in relief without giving up an earned run to right handed hitters. He was getting them either to strike out or pound the ball into the ground.
LikeLike
What about Chris Rhoades? He started at GCL last summer, out of college in Arkansas, then moved up to Williamsport, and then on to Lakewood. That performance sounds strong. Also he looked good at FIL.
LikeLike
You’re right, Rhoades did have nice numbers.
LikeLike
Missing is 2007 draftee Brian Schlitter- who apparently found a good fastball once he became a pro. i’m not too excited about late round picks in their first showing at the pro level- its just that there isn’t much in the realm of ‘bonafide’ pen prospects. That said, I certainly can’t add a lefty German who throws 82 mph to a prospect list at this point.
LikeLike
In the 2007 signee category, might as well throw in jack tilghman- who apparently has always had good stuff, just not the polish of a pro- but he did well in is GCL showing.
LikeLike
Matheison, Castro, Bisineus, and Savage
I really think Savage can make a contribution in the very near future. If you look what he has done in the last two years in the playoffs (he has not given up a hit in over 12 playoff innings, winning two championships) you can tell he is a big game pitcher who steps up his game when he has to. I expect all four of these guys to contribute in the near future. This my opinion from watching him pitch. What do u all think?
LikeLike
Fish: Don’t know much about German, but it would be cool to have a bona fide junkballer in our system with 3 or 4 outstanding pitches, maybe a splitter or scroogie, a slider or curve, a 70 mph changeup, and, say, an 82 mph sinker. I have no idea if German has any of this, but it would be fun to land and watch an old-fashioned junkballer who gives hitters fits–like a Stu Miller or Randy Jones. Or maybe a Tug McGraw, but a few mph slower (I think Tug threw mid-to-high 80s).
Just a fantasy.
LikeLike
German throws from low 3/4, so his slider sweeps and gives young hitters fits- he might be good enough to get a couple rungs up the ladder, but more an more its going to have to be as a situational lefty.
LikeLike
That doesn’t sound like enough. Now if he had a scroogie and a killer changeup too . . .
LikeLike
Edgar Garcia has got to be on this list. On my wildly optimistic days, I see him as the closer of the future.
I also get a feeling that at least one of those big righties that pitched for the cross-cutters will emerge as bullpen guys (Chapman, Brummett, Kissock – maybe even Naylor), but so far they’re starters.
I guess that’s the real trick. The relievers of tomorrow are mostly starters now. A lot of the younger guys who are relievers will become organizational filler.
LikeLike
Starters are easier than relievers to project. Most people try to project those who can close but that is only 1/6th of a bullpen. There will be many who fill the roles that Geary and Madson have filled. Geary was a reliever and Madson a starter in the Phils system before thier call ups.
Of those now who seem likely to be relievers only; Zagurski and Bisenuis come to mind. Many of the others are starters such as Mathieson or Outman or Overholt that we speculate that will be switched to the pen. For the most part these projections are probably decent ones that will eventually pan out.
LikeLike
Generally speaking, the best relievers are starters because they have the best stuff. Most times a guy is turned into a reliever for one of two reasons; he lacks a good 3rd pitch or he can’t hold his velocity after more than 3 innings. Most guys fall into the first category. They have a good fastball and then either a good changeup/curveball/slider. Normally guys don’t develop feel for a changeup and they are used out of the pen where they can throw 80% fastballs and then either sliders or curves. A guy who has 3 at least average pitches and can hold his velo will be kept in the rotation until a team determines he just doesn’t have the pure stuff to be a viable major league starter. Those guys, once they switch to the pen, usually ditch one of their pitches and focus on becoming a two pitch pitcher. The better guys continue to throw 3 average pitches, just in shorter outings. Eric Gagne is a good example. He has a violent delivery and couldn’t maintain his stuff deep in games. But prior to his injuries, he was throwing in the upper 90’s, but also had a wicked changeup and a good slow curve, as well as a slider. It’s the same think that makes Papelbon so good….3 plus pitches, he just can’t hold up for 6-7 innings in a start.
Chapman is a reliever candidate, because his slider is very good, but he lacks a 3rd pitch. A guy like Brummett could be left a starter for now because he has 3 average pitches. It will be interesting to watch.
LikeLike
What about our first year professionals (relief pitchers) at the GCL last season? I heard we have a plenty of guys there throwing 90’s or touching 90. Tilghman hit 96. Forest and Smolin sat higher than 90, while Mulligan sat at 90. They were all used as reliever onlys and all were first year guys that seemed to adjust late and all did well in August, especially Mulligan and Smolin.
LikeLike