Depth Charts, 3B

Depth Charts

Now we move to 3B, another horror show within our organization. A toolsy 19 year old who struggled in his debut as our top 3B prospect….ouch.  Candidates to consider

Welinson Baez (23) — Hector Made (23) — PJ Antoniato (24) — Derrick Mitchell (21) — Travis Mattair (19)

For the sake of sanity, let’s only rank Top 3…scratch that, Top 2.

49 thoughts on “Depth Charts, 3B”

  2. Mattair has upside, but I’m not even going to bother rating the rest of the suspects. I know we had an interesting debate on this site the other week about re-acquiring Costanzo. But that is besides the point, the real goal is making sure we upgrade this position, whether through the draft, FA signing or a trade. The cupboard is pretty empty and Wes Helms (I can’t believe he’s 32 – he looks 50 and he often plays like it too!) does not leave me with Goosebumps all over.

    I’m not saying I would not have pulled the trigger on the Lidge deal – that was still a pretty good plan. But we need to put Plan B into place very soon (message to Pat Gillick: feel free at any time to acquire a player that you did not previously have in the Mariners’ farm system).

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  4. (sound of crickets chirping)

    It ain’t pretty, is it?

    I’d rank Mattair tops, but he is very raw offensively and far from a sure thing. I’m hoping he shortens up his stroke a bit and gets it together offensively, since he seems to have some very good defensive skills.

    After him, who knows? Rick Schu, perhaps.

    – Jeff

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  5. To all of us that follow this stuff, its no surprise that we have nothing at 3B. We all know of Mattair because he was drafted high but his results last year (in a small sample certainly) showed nothing. We have journeymen throughout the organization playing 3B. Baez is only still around because we’re so weak at 3B up an down (CJ Henry wasn’t even good enough to play there…). Juan Richardson and Travis Chapman were our best 3B in recent years before Costanzo so what’s that tell you.

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  6. Mattair has the build and I think (as with all high ceiling prospects) if he figures it out, he can be all-star quality, but that’s at least 3-4 years down the road. I think Baez is number 2 because he has some pop and he’s hung around the system long enough because they like something about him. I haven’t heard much about Mitchell and I don’t think Made has anything. Let’s hope for 1 or 2 3rd base prospects to come from this draft (we have enough picks in the first 3 rounds to get some).

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  7. Help us, Obi-Wan Mattair. You’re our only hope.

    We need to shift resources. I am hoping we can trade one of our top pitching prospects for a top 3B prospect. I just looked up Mat Gamels, who seems like he might be a very good hitter, maybe 20 HRs, but around .290-.300 AVG and .360+ OBP. Problem is he made 53 errors last year. Don’t know how he projects as a fielder. Looked him up because he is blocked by Braun, so might be available. Adam Heether is another god prospect in the Brewers org. Either might be had for a deal including a Jaramillo, Bastardo or Carpenter or some package. One can’t field and the other is not quite as good a hitting prospect, although he did .818 OPS in AA last year.

    Any of you who study other organization prospects know of a smilar situation where there is a AA or AAA prospect who is blocked and might be had for pitching or Jaramillo?

    I do not mind overpaying some to fill a need like this, but is there a trading partner out there and would Gillick look for a deal like this. Might be our real only hope.

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  10. Jim has it right. Mattair. That’s all there is. Mitchell has had chances and floundered. Baez falls flat on his face every time he tries to play in the rarified air of A-ball. 23 last year, 5 seasons in the US, and his only good year was 2005, which was his third year of short-season play. He is a teaser who is always reported to be doing great and have turned the corner in FIL and extended ST.

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  11. I rank Mattair as fourth on the list.

    Here’s the full list
    1.
    2.
    3.
    4. Mattair
    5.
    6.
    7.
    (Are we getting this yet?)
    8.
    9.

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  12. Mattair needs to grow into his body before he can become a top prospect. He’s fielding is as sound as it gets. Great glove and a plus arm.

    His batting is shaky at best. His K rate is far too high right now. Getting some help to shorten his swing will turn him into something special.

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  13. At least Mattair had one of the lowest error totals of all third basemen in the GCL by committing only 6 errors in 54 games. Compare that with Mitchell’s 26 E’s in 62 games at Williamsport and Baez’s 33 E’s in 125 games between Lakewood and Clearwater.

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  15. What about Brennan King?

    he is only 27, has a good glove (based on Es and RF) his bat isn’t great but far from horrible and his k/bb ratio is that bad either. He isnt exactly the top prospect we crave or need but i dont think he is a horrible option

    that being said i still say mattair is the best we got going

    lastly, costes 3b splits in the minors didnt look horible but he is probably out of practic, i also found out he pitched in the minors a few times, we have our MLB pitching answer now, haha

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  16. You forgot Clay Harris! He is a better than average 3rd baseman. He’ ll be back there. I’m sure!

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  17. Brett Wallace (ASU) in the first round this Spring. College kid with a lot of experience, AFLAC, CWS, etc.

    Otherwise it’s just wait at least 4 years for Mattair.

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  19. Derek Mitchell is a quarterback at 3rd base. If you’d seen him last year, you’d have a little reason to be excited about him, but the numbers don’t lie, he’s a stretch- but one that I look forward to watching in Lakewood. he’s always lacked polish, but the tools are there.

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  20. I have a feeling that the Phillies are going to kick themselves real hard about trading away Costanzo. I enjoyed watching him develop in Reading in 2007

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  21. Top two? Good luck with that. Except if you move Donald to 3rd. Baez? Heart and desire but not much else. Made? Couldn’t play even when using roids. What can you say about the heart of a guy that spends his off hours wearing a Lakeland Flying Tigers ballcap. Mitchell? Two years ago I thought he was a diamond in the rough. But, the kid has become lazy. He has almost fallen off the depth charts. Mattair. Has all the tools. It was a thing of beauty to watch him and Bolt play the corners of the infield. The big question for Travis is… Can he make the switch to wooden bats? If he does… Well, we’ll only need to rank, one.

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  22. i realize why king wasnt included but i think he has at least some bench value, and he must be better defensively than old helmsy

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  24. PhuturePillies,
    Harris may be too old by someones standards, but some of the guys you mentioned can’t hit up a tree! Not even small ball. At least Harris can go YARD and accumulate RBI! He also can field his position! Not flashy, but consistant. What a stable individual.

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  25. Mattair is obviously a pretty solid prospect on the defensive side. Unfortunately, he’s three or four years away from the show.

    The rest of the names on that list are a joke, but Mitchell would have to be second based on age and ability. The rest are organizational filler.

    Every time I think of a team to trade with in order to get a young third baseman, I think of two teams: one is the Colorado Rockies, who have Garrett Atkins and Ian Stewart, and the Chicago White Sox, who have Josh Fields and Joe Crede. Crede isn’t exactly old, but Fields (I would like to dream anyways) could be had for Jaramillo and Carpenter and maybe Happ. I’d like the Phils to pull the trigger on that deal, seeing as Fields can flat-out hit and hit for tremendous power. If they can’t get Fields, I’d be just as happy getting Stewart from the Rox in a similar package — only trouble is, they have a (supposedly) good young catcher in Ianetta.

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  26. Basically we can check in next year to see if there is any prospect at 3rd base. All of these guys are far from Philly or even being a prospect. Mattiar is the only possible prospect but he is so far away its too hard to judge how good he is.

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  27. Brady —
    In high-A league at age 25 is too old to be a prospect by just about anyone’s standards. And a .734 OPS really is not an exciting offensive effort.

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  28. Our former 3B of the future Mike Costanzo was just invited to major league camp with the Orioles….we are left with a long, long shot Mattair who is atleast 3-4 years away, and a cast of characters to fill in at 3rd. How bad would the Lidge trade look if he becomes a Free Agent after 2008?
    OUCH….

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  29. Allentown,
    One has to remember that if it wasn’t for a knee injury to Harris, he probably would not have platooned at 1st. Also, with Urick and Harris over at first the combined production of both was better than any single player on the Clearwater roster. Down the stretch both preformed at a premium. I would say, that if either gets a full season 400-500 AB’s you’ll see two very good prospects. With Urick, (who can hit with power and drive in runs and the best defensive 1st baseman in the phillies organization), comming over from the Yankees as a free agent, it set him back a little do to the prospects all ready in the organization. But Harris, man he can play, and has a good arm. don’t count these guys out!

    There were many guys older on the Clearwater team, but it’s like that throughout the Phillies organization. I don’t think age will represent the ability to advance through the phillies or anywhere else within the next year or two. I think the abollishment of performance inhancing drugs will allow those that were on the bubble, because of this equalization process be considered for advancement.

    Was there a measurement of age done recently that said, that since 1990(?) the average age of a rookie position player has increased 0.6% a year, thus making the average age 28, of making it to the Show? I might be off on this?

    Could it be the durgs allowed older players to stick around longer while older minor leaguers never got their opportunity?

    Things are changing. Steriods and HGH and the 5 hr games will be the thing of the past. Maybe for the next two to three years age won’t be the factor?

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  31. Brady —
    Rbi is a counting stat and as much a function of position in lineup and players ahead of you in lineup as hitting ability. I would say the significantly younger Donald, Harman, and Marson all had better seasons with the bat than Urick or Harris. There is a difference between performing well in the low minors when you are age inappropriate and actually being a real prospect. Urick is even a little older than Harris.

    I don’t know how cup of coffee emergency fill-ins by minor league vets impact the average age of first AB in majors, but among the guys who become major league starters or spend more than one full season in the majors, 28 is way above average year for entering the pros.

    I don’t see drugs making much of a difference. Minor leaguers have been tested for steroids for several years. The users should have been identified, so the young prospects are for real.

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  32. Rob,
    I couldn’t agree more on Josh Fields. I’ve been preaching that for 2 years on different forums and among friends. Frankly I was flat out SHOCKED that Fields wasn’t part of the deal for Freddy Garcia. I couldn’t imagine the Phillies making any trade with Chicago (AL) that didn’t involve Fields…yet they did. I’m so convinced that we could and should get Fields that in my brain it is going to happen, just a matter of when.

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  33. What makes people think that Josh Fields or Ian Stewart will be available, no less available at a price that’s palatable to the Phillies? I am not seeing that. If I’m Colorado or Chicago, I hold on to those players. The Rox might trade Atkins, but they are going to want a ton for him in return and the team making that trade had better be ready to give Atkins big money upon his arrival. I’m not saying that they Phils shouldn’t do this, but when were they ever on the receiving side of this type of deal where they were going to shell out big money? I can’t remember that happening. Even if they make the trade and give up the talent, they’ll probably be reluctant to do the long term deal.

    Can you tell I’m frustrated by the team?

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  35. the phillies don’t have the prospects to get atkins. the phillies best bet is to go with what they got and draft smart. i also heard that the brewers are trying to move braun to left and acquire a 3rd basemen, so i assume there not that comfortable with either of those other guys “blocked” by braun. i like constanzo, local guy, but he strikes out a lot and his defense isn’t the greatest. besides i think everyone was invited to orioles spring training.

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  37. i think travis mattair is going to be one of the best third basemen you will ever see. he has the best fan club and they will stick w/ him his whole hall of fame career.

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  38. Travis Mattair’s main sport was basketball and to see him develop as such a good baseball player how can you say anything bad about him! I am a Mooseketeer now and a Mooseketeer for life! GO MOOSE!

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  39. I have to wait till

    I have to wait till Chistmas to bash Mattair . Teenagers are
    growing things

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  40. first off nick amato… you may be a ‘Mooseketeer’ but you havent seen hime like I have. I grew up with the guy and everyone on his team was always in his shadow. Yes, he’s a great athlete and has serious potential, but his work ethic is the worst i have ever seen on a practice field. The kid never came to summer workouts for any sports and quit football his senior year to ‘focus on baseball’ to which of now he won’t return to. He will loose a substantial amount of money from his signing bonus and doesnt have a plan of action after the Phillies. Seriously this is a waste of talent. This winter he coached C team girl’s basketball at his old high school…for free. The guy is lost and has little chance in doing something with his athletic career.

    Another noteworthy baseball failure from the Columbia Basin is Jeff Bumgardener, who, out of high school, was the top recruit in the state for both football and baseball. The guy threw over 100 mph guys. Played for the Twins and hurt his shoulder a couple seasons in. Now, Jeff is a union worker making under 60K a year…pretty sad after signing a bonus over 1 mil. out of high school…and this was in the early nineties…

    Travis ‘Moose’ Mattair will live to be nothing more than a high school hero and a washed up minor league player at best.

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  42. Reserved-

    It sounds like you have some jealousy issues because Moose probably over-shadowed your athletic career. I have played with Mattair since I was little and you honestly do not know what you are talking about. Moose is one of the nicest guys you will meet and it was a smart choice to not play football his senior year. He was playing baseball throughout the fall and why would you risk injury if you had the future he has in baseball? He also has returned to play again this year, further proving that you are a complete idiot. I don’t see what is wrong with him coaching a basketball team during the off-season either and doing it for free, none-the-less. If you want to give your opinion on his talent, that’s one thing, but making claims that are false and labeling him a failure……that’s just wrong. Get a life Reserved.

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  43. i think thqt Tavis Mattair will have great sucess in the minors and the majors. He may not be th best hitter but he is a great fielder and when you need a hit from him he comes through. .250 is an average batting average. Carlos Delgad hits .270. And Moose doesnt take steroids like GAY_ROD or BARRY BONDS or any of the “greats”. he will be very successful!

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  45. I read some things about Mattair in ba, and thought he was going to be stud, Now to say a good fielding 250 hitter, to me that is nothing special, especially for a top choice who supposely has a high ceiling, Hope we can get a good 3 rd base prospect in a trade.

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  46. Mattair is a bust — saw him w/ Blue Claws– terrible w/ the bat,, and seems to have an attitude….. why– i dont know, just a gut feeling– supposed to love to play the game– he seems to be indifferent, laxidasical, and sure as hell cant hit off speed stuff- bye…

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  47. Mattair…let’s see…lowest error rate of all 3rd basemen…..most walks…..hmmmm, isn’t he pretty fresh out of High School? Not college, but High School!!! Come on guys, he’s doing great! Great work effort, loved by fans, good kid all the way around. He’ll do well whether it be in pro baseball or what ever he ends up doing.

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