Depth Charts, 2B

Depth Charts

We’ve got one obvious candidate here, another pretty good candidate, then a lot of uncertainty. Let’s try and rank a Top 5 again, here are some guys to consider…

Adrian Cardenas (20) — Brad Harman (22) — Michael Garciappara (25) — Tyler Mach (23) — Adam Sorgi (23) — Ambiorix Rincon (21)

22 thoughts on “Depth Charts, 2B”

  1. So, let’s see: Mach is the obvious candidate. Which one of Harman and Cardenas would you consider the “pretty good” candidate?

    8^D

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  2. Harman / Cardenas / Mach / Rincon / Sorgi

    Mach came out of the chutes white hot last year, but slowed a bit. That could’ve been fatigue from a full college season (which also presumably includes going to school). We should see fairly soon this Spring if the “hunt’s in him”.

    Rincon played well in the GCL. Better with his glove than with his bat. He’s not a power hitter, and can only be counted on for OB%.

    Sorgi, the Stanford kid, probably should’ve played GCL. I know the conventional wisdom on here is that college seniors need to be higher in the system, but to me, reps are all important that first summer. I don’t think Sorgi got enough reps. He comes from an outstanding college program, and he did well there.

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  4. Cardenas, Harman, Mach, Rincon, Sorgi

    I still think Garciaparra might have some fight in him, but I don’t see him making it with the Phils.

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  5. I agree with Eric and Jim’s order above although Mach could eventually pass Harman and Rincon and Sorgi both have potential. By the way, Garciaparra is simply not a major league prospect. He’s minor league fodder as are a few other guys who were at Reading and Ottawa last year. I’m very excited to see Reading this year as they will be very strong up the middle with a good top of the rotation. The Phillies prganization NEEDS Reading to do well this year since so many prospects will be there.

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  6. Cardenas, Mach, and Harman in order of upside. But we all know these guys will likely be in other positions or utility (Harman).

    I would also add that Donald’s best projection might be 2B. His fielding might play better there (his range is reportedly just adequate at SS) and his bat might play best at 2B, where he projects as maybe a solid #2 hitter (good contact, good OBP, occasional SB, occasional power). In an infield of good offensive performers, a team could do worse than him at 2B IF he has years like 2007 in majors.

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  7. Here’s John Sickels’ evaluation of the Phillies prospects. Its not very good with only 4 B grades.

    Philadelphia Phillies Top 20 Prospects for 2008
    By John Sickels
    Posted on Sat Jan 05, 2008 at 01:30:50 PM CDT

    Philadelphia Phillies Top 20 Prospects for 2008

    All grades are EXTREMELY PRELIMINARY and subject to change.

    Carlos Carrasco, RHP, Grade B

    Adrian Cardenas, 2B, Grade B

    Josh Outman, LHP, Grade B

    Joe Savery, LHP, Grade B (I still worry about his health)

    Kyle Drabek, RHP, Grade C+ (injuries, command, and personality are huge questions)

    Jason Donald, SS, Grade C+ (big time sleeper)

    Greg Golson, OF, Grade C+ (tools out the wazoo but no polish)

    Travis Blackley, LHP, Grade C+

    J.A. Happ, LHP, Grade C+ (interchangeable with Blackley)

    Lou Marson, C, Grade C+

    Antonio Bastardo, LHP, Grade C+

    Julian Sampson, RHP, Grade C+

    Travis D’Arnaud, C, Grade C+ (questionable bat for me)

    Matt Spencer, OF, Grade C+

    Andrew Carpenter, RHP, Grade C+

    Jeremy Slayden, OF, Grade C (I like him a lot but old for a prospect)

    Scott Mathieson, RHP, Grade C (would rank higher if health was sure)

    Tyler Mach, 3B-2B, Grade C

    Travis Mattair, 3B, Grade C

    Dominic Brown, OF, Grade C (great tools, skills?)

    Other grade C guys include Quintin Berry, Tyson Brummett, Chance Chapman, Freddy Galvis, Edgar Garcia, Brad Harman, Lincoln Holdzkom, Jason Jaramillo, Gus Milner, Carlos Monasteros, Javon Moran, D’Arby Myers, Matt Rizzotti, Brian Schlitter, and Michael Taylor.
    The Phillies have an interesting mix. They have some polished guys without great tools, and they have some tools guys with no skills, but not many with both.

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  8. I don’t mind a conservative approach to rating prospects. Sickels has some pretty high ceiling guys at C or C+. I assume he means if they do it two years in a row and at a higher level (Donald, Carpenter), he will upgrade. Or if they come out smoking after injury rehab, he will upgrade dramatically (Drabek, maybe Savery belongs here too, since he is still recovering). That’s a better approach than going gaga with the ratings just because a guy once threw 97 or had one good year at the plate.

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  10. Cardenas, Harman, Mach, Li’l Nomah, Sorgi. I think the first three are destined for the show, and the latter 2/5s are career minor leaguers.

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  11. While there may be other players in the organization who end up at second, the 2B list is a little lean. Here is my take:

    Cardenas – only question is whether he stays at 2B
    Harman – Big step forward last year
    Mach – Way too old, needs to double jump and maintain the offense
    Rincon – Doubles power and decent OBP. But on the fringe of too old for GCL. If he is not at Lakewood this year (with Mach at Clearwater) he is probably not a prospect.
    Garciaparra – While he is a failed prospect, he has more tools than Sorgi who may not get out of low A.

    Most of the SS could end up here also – Valenzuela and Cesar Hernandez from the VSL most notably. But who knows how good they are.

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  13. Garciaparra is simply nothing more than a career minor leaguer…….maybe a cup of coffee here and there. I saw him a handful of times in Reading this season and he showed me little or no potential…..lets not include him in any “prospect” discussions!

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  15. Brad Harman made a big step forward last year by repeating in Clearwater, but it’s a long way from Clearwater to Philadelphia. He finished the year great though, and was the MVP of the post season for the team as they won the FSL Championship.

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  16. Murray, I believe Reading will have a good year. Low A Lakewood 2 years ago = championship, High A Clearwater last year = championship, this year AA Reading = ? (with most of the real prospects moving up into AA this year).

    AAA will still have a lot of career AAA’ers but less at Reading since the Phils now actually have more decent prospects moving into the upper minors.

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  17. Cardenas, Harman, Mach, Rincon, Sorgi. We all know Cardenasty can flat-out hit, Harman made big strides last year and needs to maintain his offense if he’ll be anything other than a useful utility player. Mach is old for his league, and I agree that he needs to double-jump and stay hot to be a prospect. Rincon, at this point, looks like an all-glove player. His bat needs to develop to be considered a prospect. Sorgi is also a little old for his league, but comes from a solid baseball school. Little Nomar is a non-prospect at this point.

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  18. It looks like just about all the Phillies Aussie players are in that tournament. Naylor, Roeger, and Kennelly are on other teams also.

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  19. Cardenas, Donald, Harman. I don’t see Mach as a prospect. He was too old and really had a lousy second half of season after starting like gangbusters. Others too young to judge.

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  20. Cardenas, Harman and not much else.

    I’ve seen Cardenas for 2 years in a row in the FIL. And, a few games in spring training. But, I like what I see. Good tools. Great makeup. And he’s still growing and learning! I think 2B may not be his final home. Could wind up as a corner OF in a couple of years.

    I’ve watched him play about 150 games in 2 years. I’m just not sold on the idea that he turned a corner in the 2nd half of 2007. Did he hit better? Yes. But against what caliber of pitching? FSL pitching talent levels dropped in the 2nd half of 2007. The Phils were not the only club to promote their better pitchers to AA. These guys were replaced by arms from low A and short season A. This happened more and more as the season wore on. Harmon’s ceiling isn’t that high. He lacks concentration in the field. Makes way too many mental errors. I see him as being a utility inf at best.

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  21. Bob D —
    I think you may be right about a Reading championship. In addition to what you say about the Lakewood and then Clw successes, Reading should at least start the season with Carrasco, Outman, Overholt, Golson as holdovers. That is a pretty solid core of guys with half a season of AA. Adding Harman, Donald, Marson, Slayden to that core will give us more prospect bats than we have had in my memory.

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  22. Neither Cardenas nor Mach have the range/fielding skills to play this middle of the infield position. We know there’s no room at the Phils’ 2nd base inn to settle into, anyway.

    Harman, Cardenas and Mach need to be introduced to new positions this season—3rd base awaits each of them who have the arm. With our severe shortage at that position, maybe one can step up and offer 3rd base relief until a bright shining guy can crawl through the system to offermore permanent relief. Add Donald to this 3rd base quest. Let the best ones emerge…hopefully.

    Cardenas could be used as trade bait (for a 3rd baseman superior prospect) should he continue his hitting profundities. If he can’t play 3rd base nor 2nd., then LF would be his target.

    IMO, the time to find Cardenas another position should begin this ’08 season…with the others mentioined also inquired into for 3rd.

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