Ryan Madson signs with the Reds, Phillies receive 2 draft picks

Ryan Madson signed a 1 year deal with the Reds, which means another part of the Phillies 2012 draft puzzle has been completed. See the updates below for the clarification of the picks the Phillies received. The news isn’t as good now as we originally thought.

Update –>; The Phillies pick is actually #14, and everyone moves down 1 spot. The new CBA is funky.

Update #2 –>; There is still some confusion as to where the Phillies will pick. I’ve seen multiple reports indicating the Phillies do get pick #14, and others saying the Phillies will receive a 2nd round pick. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

Update #3 —> It appears the Phillies weren’t so lucky, and instead will now receive the pick before the Reds second round pick, as well as a sandwich pick. The sandwich pick will be in the 30s, and the pick from the Reds will likely be #72. That’s a bummer.

56 thoughts on “Ryan Madson signs with the Reds, Phillies receive 2 draft picks

    1. Or waited out Boras and signed Madson for 3 years/ $25 million and used the other $25 million for Hamels or another bat??

      1. Boras would not have done it. After floating the 4/44 out there, he would never concede to sign for that much less with the Phils.

        1. So instead of taking “less” to the tune of $33 million, he accepted “less” to the tune of $8 million? Really?

      2. The only reason Madson signed this deal was because he didn’t have any other realistic suitors. Had the Phillies still been out there, the asking price would have been higher.

          1. Probably something like that, 3 years, $33-$35… the whole reason he was out there was because he and Boras wanted too much.

  1. I believe it is slotted before their second round pick as it relates back to the old rules where teams in the lower half were risking their #2 pick. Should be a comp pick around 35 and then a slotted 2nd round in the low 70s.

    “Six Type A players became modified Type A free agents, meaning a team signing one of them not required to forfeit a draft pick, but the team losing them will receive a draft pick in the slot immediately before the pick they would have received had the player actually had Type A status.”

  2. I think its the first round.

    Because under the new rules, only the top 10 picks are protected, not the top 15, and the Reds are picking 14th. So if Madson would have been a regular Type A free agent, and the Reds would have signed him, they’d have lost their first round pick.

    1. I think the top 10 relates to the new compensation system next year and only applies to players that get qualifying offers. Here is a longer clip from Jim Caple at Baseball America:

      The Type A/Type B free-agent compensation system will be eliminated under baseball’s new collective bargaining agreement. In the final offseason of the old system, MLB and the MLB Players Association made some modifications.

      The compensation for Type A free agents remains the same: A first-round pick from the signing team, as well as a supplemental first-round choice. Clubs that finished in the bottom half of the major league standings have their first-rounders protected from compensation, and teams can’t lose consolation picks for failure to sign players from the previous draft. If a club signs multiple Type A free agents, the team that lost the higher-ranking player gets the better choice.
      immediately preceding that pick along with the normal supplemental first-rounder.

      1. “Clubs won’t have to surrender a draft pick to sign one of the following six players: Heath Bell, Michael Cuddyer, Kelly Johnson, Ryan Madson, Josh Willingham and Francisco Rodriguez. Teams that lose these players after offering arbitration will obtain first round picks in the slot before the signing team plus a supplementary draft pick for a total of two selections.”

        “The Reds don’t have to surrender a draft pick to sign Madson, but the Phillies will obtain two picks this June because they offered arbitration after the season. One selection will come before the Reds’ first round pick and the other will come in the supplementary first round.”

        Both from MLBtraderumors.com, there’s also an acticle from Matt Gelb stating that if the Phils didn’t sign Madson they’d get the pick before the signing team’s first round selection. The wording is confusing but all indications are that the Phillies will pick 14th and the Reds move back a slot to 15.

        1. The key part to look at is whether teams in the bottom half have their first round picks protected. The only difference with the modified type A picks is that the pick is slotted before the signing team’s pick and does not come from that team. There does not appear to be any change in the 1st round protection for bottom tier teams, especially if the top 10 protection refers to next year’s system.

          1. The Marlins signed Reyes and they were a bottom 10 team but for some odd reason the Mets still got a 2nd rounder (originally rumored to be a 3rd) even though Bell was ranked higher. Sounds like they are making up rules as they go along with the offcial CBA rules kicking in next offseason.

        2. A lot of people are viewing this Madson thing the wrong way. You have to think of it as a trade. The Phillies, in essence, traded Ryan Madson for the 14th pick in the draft (which is a HUGE upgrade over the 31st pick they surrendered as talent generally goes down quickly after about the first 5 or 6 picks and then again after the first 15 to 20 picks) and a supplemental first rounder. It was a great trade given that they’ve signed their closer of the future and are otherwise stacked with young arms in the bullpen and a sufficient number of veterans.

        3. I read the same article and have a correction. It stated that the Phils will receive one selection before the Reds “2nd” round pick, not 1st round. So, it seems, pick 14 is a pipe dream.

        4. The mlbtraderumors article has been updated and now says 2nd rounder and is linked to the Jim Callis tweet. Would be great to get some clarity on this.

      1. Last time the Phillies had the 14th pick, they took Reggie Taylor. Ouch. Roy Halladay was selected 3 picks later by the Blue Jays.

  3. The new CBA confounds me. Basically multiple teams get punished because one team makes a signing. I.E. because the Reds signed Madson, the Yankees now have an even lower draft choice. It is obviously good for us this time, but in the years to come I suspect we’ll be hurt more than helped by this odd rule. And one spot may not seem like much, but in the first round it can mean the difference between signing a stud or just signing someone with high upside that we have to hope puts it all together.

    1. It’s only for this year…

      Next year, you need to make an offer of $12.4 (?) million to a player in order to recieve compensation. That compensation is a team’s first rounder/2nd rounder depending on their draft position.

  4. Per Jim callis:
    #Phillies get sandwich & 2nd-rder for Madson going to #Reds. As of now, those would be picks 38 & 72. #mlbdraft

      1. I think he is wrong. He said on twitter that the Reds pick is protected but under the new CBA only the top 10 picks are.

        1. But I think the rules of the old CBA are still in effect for some odd reason. Its a good question to ask though. I’m more and more confused

          1. I still want to know how the old rules worked for the mets then. They should have received a 3rd rounder for Reyes since he was rated lower then Bell.

    1. 14th would have been a lot better, but still a good “trade” for Madson, what with the slew of bullpen arms about to arrive on the scene. Combine these transactions with upgrading slightly to Papelbon and losing the 1st round pick and I would call the entire thing roughly a wash.

      1. The deal was also a really great one for Cincinnati. It got a top flight reliever for a year at only $8.5 million along with an option and it did not have to surrender any picks. This was one of the great free agent steals of the last few years – similar in value to the great deal St. Louis got last year on Lance Berkman (if the Phillies had made that signing, they might have gone further in the postseason and probably would not have had to trade for Pence . . . I can dream, right?).

  5. So we lose a 1st rounder for Paps per the old CBA, then don’t get the benefit of the new CBA with only the first 10 picks being protected. That would be some luck.

    1. It’s their own fault for not waiting for the situation to be resolved. There was rumblings that draft pick compensation was subject to change this off season.

  6. If we do indeed get the 14th pick, based on our draft history that would be pretty awesome…

    The last two players the phillies took around that spot are….

    2000 Chase Utley 2B Long Beach, CA 15
    1999 Brett Myers RHP Jacksonville, FL 12

    I honestly would take either of those players in a heart beat.

    1. Pretty clearly, the new CBA should have applied to both the Paplebon and Madson deal, or the old should have applied to both, not this half way sh**. Bye bye pick 14!

  7. Way to go Boras way to F it up for another client. That’s not to say Ryan doesn’t share in his unfortunate situation but I choose to believe Boras fills their heads with nothing but pie in the sky figures about their open market potential.

    What do thing the Phillies were offering Mid-Season and do you think he wishes now he would have taken that offer. I like Paps don’t get me wrong but if I could have had Ryan at 3/$36 I’d like that better.

    1. I couldn’t agree more. Madson at $36 is a much better deal/ situation than Pap for $50+. Leaves some for Cole, leaves some for another bat.

      Boras simply cut off his nose to spite his face.

  8. Madson took the 1 year deal because he (Boras) believes the market for closers will be better next year. It’s a big risk to take. What if Ryan gets hurt? What if he can’t get people out and he’s dropped from the closer role? What if Cincy shafts him and makes him the setup guy? The end of the world could occur on 12/21/2012 (I guess this one doesn’t matter either way).

    This reminds me of a friend of mine’s kid graduated from a prestigious college with great grades in 2008. He got a great offer from UTC but turned it as he awaited a better offer from GE. the offer never came and pretty soon no offers were available. The kid was left out in the cold. Last I heard he’s living with 5 guys in a 2 family house and working as an entry level accountant for peanuts.

    The Reds got a great deal and didn’t lose anything in compensation. When Boras asked for a 1 year deal, the Reds GM must have jumped out of his seat to shake on that one.

    1. GE is a pretty good company…I used to work for their healthcare division.

      Gotta take that job offer though…its far easier to get a job when you already have one.

      Oh and it sucks about not getting the 14th pick.

  9. It’s a shame that the Phillies won’t get the 14th pick, but ultimately, their first pick moves down a handful of slots and they pick up number 72 overall. A major league deal for Raul wound be nice, but a sandwich pick and 2 seconds is probably a bit better than just a late first and a second.

  10. Callis updated and said actually #’s 39 and 72, as of now. Definitely one of the biggest pains of the CBA is how fluid the drat pick situation is.

    Best #39 pick ever: Barry Bonds
    Best #72 pick ever: Ray Lankford

  11. I’m throwing a huge party in 2017 when howard and papelbon come off the books.

    Not sure how amaro graduated from stanford without mastering the concept of ROI.

    Horrible

    1. Yeah, dont even bother watching them the next 5 years. A GM overpaid for a couple players, take up golfing instead.

  12. Would have got the Reds’ first round selection, but Madsen is one of 6 players with some special rule detail that does not require a team to surrender first round pick. Had it been another player we’d have 14, but Madsen was one of the six. I still like having all these draft picks!

  13. An outstanding share! I’ve just forwarded this onto a coworker who had been conducting a little homework on this. And he in fact bought me dinner simply because I discovered it for him… lol. So let me reword this…. Thank YOU for the meal!! But yeah, thanx for spending some time to talk about this issue here on your web page.

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