Draft Revisited: 2008

2008 Draft

After a break, here is the 2008 draft class.  There have been a huge number of players from this class to make the major leagues, despite the first two names on the list being considered to be huge busts.  More of the class has been used in most major trades that the Phillies were involved in during their NL East dominating years.  Many of the names involved will be very familiar to both casual and hard core fans.

Round 1 Pick 24 – Anthony Hewitt
Going into the draft Hewitt was viewed as having boom-bust potential. Hewitt’s HS competition was poor and so is approach was incredibly raw, additionally is poor defense was going to force him off SS into the OF. From his first season to now it has been a long journey for Hewitt. He displays huge raw power, plus speed, and plus arm strength, however he has been unable to develop an approach. In 2013 Hewitt set a career high in walk rate but he still struggles against same handed pitching and breaking balls.  2014  Outlook: Lehigh Valley

Round 1s Pick 34 – Zach Collier
A late riser in the draft, Collier showed good tools in showcases, most notably a good feel for hitting.  Collier hit well in his first year in the organization but fell off quickly as injuries and ineffectiveness limited his development time.  Collier experienced a bit of a breakout in 2012 with an ok showing in the FSL and good appearance in the Arizona Fall League.  He had another down year in 2013, but ended the season strong.  Collier has shown a good swing with some pop, plus plus speed and good CF defense.  If he can work the strikeouts back down in a return trip to AA he may still have a big league future.  2014 Outlook: Reading

Round 2 Pick 51 – Anthony Gose
Coming into the draft some teams saw Gose as a LH pitcher with a plus plus fastball and feel for secondary pitches, but the frame has teams thinking reliever and the Phillies took him as a position player.  In the field Gose’s calling card is his speed and defense where he puts together 3 70 grade tools.  He has solid raw power but the swing can be questionable.  Gose was part of the trade to Houston for Roy Oswalt, and was flipped immediately to the Blue Jays.  Gose still profiles as a starting center fielder for a playoff team.  2014 Outlook: Toronto

Round 2 Pick 71 – Jason Knapp
Knapp was all arm strength and projection heading into the draft, he didn’t have the secondary pitches but some scouts thought the fastball could be elite.  In pro-ball the curveball and changeup flashed plus to go with the plus plus fastball.  However he suffered from elbow and shoulder problems.  Even with the problems he headlined the Cliff Lee trade with Cleveland.  Knapp continued to front of the rotation stuff when healthy but injuries kept him off the field and eventually forced him out of baseball.  He threw his last pro inning in 2010. 2014 Outlook: Out of Baseball

Round 3 Pick 102 – Vance Worley
Worley showed decent stuff out of college, with a above average fastball and a fringe average changeup and curveball.  With refinement the profile showed flashes of being mid-rotation but he was often inefficient and ran into deep counts.  In pro-ball Worley showed stuff of a back of the rotation starter, with a lack of a put away pitch.  In the majors Worley put up good numbers but struggled to work deep into games as he relied on strikes looking.  Worley eventually went to Minnesota for Ben Revere.  He struggled in 2013 and could be better suited in a bullpen role long term.  2014 Outlook: Minnesota 

Round 3 Pick 110 – Jonathan Pettibone
Pettibone was a supplemental third round pick who wore projection then stuff, with his fastball sitting fringy, a questionable curveball, but a promising changeup.  After a slow start Pettibone got his fastball up to 92-94 and scrapped the curveball for a slider and then slowly began climbing up prospect rankings.  Pettibone doesn’t have overpowering stuff but good polish gives him more of a #4 profile, and he showed that for the 2013 Phillies.  2014 Outlook: Phillies rotation

Round 4 Pick 136 – Trevor May
May was top pitching prospect in Washington in the 2008 draft, he showed a solid 3 pitch mix, touching as high as 94 on his fastball.  In pro ball May showed a fastball with heavy sink to go with a solid curveball and changeup.  His biggest problem has been his control due to struggles in repeating his delivery.  At every level May has been able to miss bats, but the lack of control has moved his profile to more of a #4 starter or high leverage reliever.  In 2012 he was traded along with Vance Worley for Minnesota center fielder Ben Revere.  2014 Outlook: Minnesota AAA (Rochester)

Round 5 Pick 166 – Jeremy Hamilton – 1B
Baseball America called Hamilton one of the best pure hitters in the 2008 draft, there were questions though about how he would hit with wood bats, especially how the power would play.  He then proceed to hit 6 HRs across three levels over two years ending is career in 2009 with a .248/.343/.347 triple slash line.  2013 Outlook: Out of Baseball

Round 6 Pick 196 – Colby Shreve
Coming into the 2008 draft Shreve flashed a plus fastball and solid slider, the big knock was that he was going to miss 2008 and 2009 to Tommy John surgery.  Shreve’s stuff never returned and even out of the bullpen he struggled with control and the ability to miss bats.  In 2013 he split time between AA and hi-A bullpens and could repeat that in 2014. 2014 Outlook: Phillies org

Round 8 Pick 256 – Julio Rodriguez
Rodriguez had the size to entice scouts with his projection, but despite the frame his fastball would only flash plus, and would mostly sit lower. His curveball has plus potential but it is more slow and loopy. His change up was never a weapon, but his cutter flashed plus at time. More than the lack of stuff it was below average command that ended JRod’s prospect status. Before the 2013 season the Phillies sent him Baltimore for essentially nothing. His year was marred by injuries and ineffectiveness.  2014 Outlook: Baltimore?

Round 11 Pick 346 – Michael Stutes
Stutes’s final college year was a bit of a disaster and his stock dropped as it got close to the draft.  He showed 4 average pitches, but a lack of consistency.  Stutes spent his first two years as a starting pitcher moving quickly in the org, but in 2010 he transitioned to the bullpen where his stuff ticked up.  Stutes still struggled with command but made an impact in the bullpen for the 2011 Phillies.  Stutes’s stuff has dropped off recently which has made the lack of command more evident.  He likely will be in the bullpen mix for 2014, but could be on the outside.  2014 Outlook: Philadelphia Org

Round 13 Pick 406 – B.J. Rosenberg
The knock on Rosenberg out of college was a checkered injury history but a plus fastball and useful slider made him intriguing.  Rosenberg dominated early in his time in the org but injuries ruined his 2010 season.  In 2011 the Phillies tried him in the rotation at times in Reading, and he proved effective.  Rosenberg has added other pitches to his fastball slider mix, and he has made stints with the big league club in both 2012 and 2013.  The biggest knock on Rosenberg is that his fastball, while sitting with plus velocity, is straight and hitters have been able to time it up.  That coupled with control issues have made him very inconsistent.  He did show plus stuff at the end of 2013, that should get him an extended look in 2014.  2014 Outlook: In the Phillies bullpen mix

Round 14 Pick 436 – Michael Schwimer
Out of the draft Schwimer profiled as a reliever with an average fastball and slider, and fringy splitter.  In pro ball Schwimer moved quickly, but stalled in the Reading for a bit before making the major league club in 2011.  Schwimer made up for his lack of raw stuff with deception and brains.  Over his time in the Phillies org Schwimer was very outspoken, writing for this blog, and being vocal on social media.  A combination of that and his 40 man spot sent him to Toronto in the 2012-2013 offseason for first baseman Art Charles.  2014 Outlook: Toronto Org

Round 18 Pick 556 – Tyler Cloyd
Tyler Cloyd has always been a command and control soft tosser.  He rose through the minors slowly switching between the rotation and bullpen.  In 2011 and 2012 his numbers took a huge step forward and he earned a trip to the big leagues in 2012.  Cloyd tossed 93.1 innings for the Phillies over two years, but ultimately the lack of stuff doomed him as major league hitters continued to make hard contact off of him.  The Phillies put him on waivers where he was claimed by the Indians and then DFA’d by them.  2014 Outlook: Indians Org

Round 19 Pick 586 – Steve Susdorf
Susdorf has always shown the ability to hit.  The problem from the moment he was drafted is that he lack any other tool.  This limits Susdorf to LF and has stunted his ability to have a major league career.  Susdorf did make the Phillies for 7 ABs in 2013, but was outrighted off the roster afterwards.  2014 Outlook: Lehigh Valley

Round 36 Pick 1096 – Mike Cisco
Mike Cisco was drafted out of the University South Carolina and immediately showed a jump in velocity from fringe average to average on the fastball.  He moved quickly with a good feel for pitching but stalled in Reading as his stuff tailed off.  He was eventually traded to the Angels for no return in 2013.  Overall Cisco’s days of starting are over but he might latch on and get a cup of coffee as a middle reliever.  2014 Outlook: Angel’s Org

Round 38 Pick 1156 – Jarred Cosart
Cosart’s signing story is well known has the deal came together quickly at the deadline.  Cosart was dominant from the time he stepped onto a field, but he struggled to stay healthy.  His control has regressed over the years and while his stuff his some of the best in the minors he has not learned to sequence his pitches.  In 2011 he headlined the Phillies trade to the Houston Astros for Hunter Pence.  If Cosart can put it all together his stuff and groundball rate indicate of a frontline starter, but he is likely to be more of either mid-rotation starter or closer long term. 2014 Outlook: Astros Rotation

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About Matt Winkelman

Matt is originally from Mt. Holly, NJ, but after a 4 year side track to Cleveland for college he now resides in Madison, WI. His work has previously appeared on Phuture Phillies and The Good Phight. You can read his work at Phillies Minor Thoughts

39 thoughts on “Draft Revisited: 2008”

  1. Nice work Matt. It’s a shame that Arbuckle and company missed so much on Hewitt and Collier with those first two picks.

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    1. Yeah, Arbuckle, wondered about that. Left in November 2008, so I suppose he influenced those picks. Some believe if they would have kept Arbuckle as GM instead of Ruben a lot of problems might have been avoided.

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      1. Even with the misses of Hewitt and Collier that is absolutely amazing. I think people unfairly bash this draft solely on Hewitt being a bust.

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        1. People don’t bash this draft. Most say it was their favorite Phillies draft of the past 10 years. It is unusual that they whiffed twice on their two early picks, where the scouting director and his chief cross checkers would have the most input and hit more on later rounds where the opininons of the individual scouts count more.

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          1. That’s just how it goes. A top pick can turn out to be a bust, but a last-minute pick like Cosart can make it to the MLB. You can’t predict injuries, not developing properly, etc. It happens. Also, wasn’t this the year that resulted in the “Baby Aces” nickname being coined for the drafted SP’s?

            As far as Schwimer – over the summer, he got DFA’d to make room for Happ, but he barely pitched last year, only logging 6 scoreless IP in May, with 6 K’s & 7 walks. Not sure why he was so limited – probably pointless to ask since details on it wouldn’t be released, but did his grievance with the Phillies ever get anywhere?

            Rodriguez barely pitched last year as well, but I’m not sure what the specific cause of his limited playtime was. His 2013 numbers were quite bad.

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          2. I beg to differ. A few other sites out there have bashed this draft due to the monumental misses in Hewitt and Collier. Not saying I agree, but there are definitely people out there that weigh the draft based on those two picks.

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      2. That is incredible! Thanks Matt for pointing that out as your word carries a lot of water here as it should. The negative feelings far outweighs the positive these days, and while there are no breakout stars in that group yet, there are a lot of big leaguer. Plus there are a couple in the group that have a chance to breakout still IMO.

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  3. Gerrit Cole got drafted a couple spots after Hewitt and Lance Lynn got drafted a couple spots after Collier. Would be nice to redo them two picks.

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  4. Not sure that Gose projects as a starting CF on a playoff team but overall it wasn’t a bad draft class, just no stars.

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  5. Pettibone in the rotation thing, so, supposing all Pitchers healthy , and assuming the 4 veterans are in there, and Pettibone remains for the season in the rotation, Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez becomes a question mark? So does this become another projected misappropriation of funds , or does he bounce to the bullpen and bounce another more veteran pitcher out.

    So, to revisit another Pseudo-Controversy somebody instigated sometime back, why is it supposed that Jared Cosart , with obvious great stuff and other requisites, lasted until the 38th round. I don’t buy that everyone thought he would not sign at any price, as he ultimately signed for $500,000. Nor do I buy that teams had not heard of him, due to instantaneous scouting reports on the internet at the time of his drafting.

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  6. this draft has always been considered as a good one in my book. it’s the ’07,’09,’10 and even the ’11 that has killed this organIzation’s competitiveness. i still can’t believe the phils were in the bottom five of draft spending for a few of those years. will all of the money they were raking in. poor planning and poor recognizing of future needs.

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    1. Not just those 4 seasons. Guys from earlier drafts should be in their prime with the Phillies. ’06 was good, giving us Domonic Brown as a late pick, but we traded away all the top guys: Drabek, Cardenas, Carpenter, Donald. ’05 we lost our top pick, traded top two actually drafted: Costanzo and Maloney. Late pick Outman came through but was traded. Tuffy Gosewich had his cup of coffee with another team. ’04 gave us the Golson and Jaramillo busts with the top two picks and then the traded Happ and Marson with the next two. Golson was traded for Mayberry. That’s three drafts and only Brown still with the Phillies. Those drafts should have produced the baseball middle-aged backbone of the current Phillies.

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      1. I should have added ’03, when we lost our top two picks to acquire Thome and David Bell. We do still have Kyle Kendrick out of that draft, so comparatively it is a success. We traded Michael Bourn. So that is another 4 key drafts with lost picks, traded prospects, and bad picks yielding only Brown and Kendrick still on the team.

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        1. I am glad you emphasized the fact that top picks do not always constitute a draft’s success, but the overall draft itself. I look at the Cardinals from ’03 thru ’11: 2003 — Daric Barton-c, 2004 —Christopher R Lambert-p, 2005 —Mark A Mccormick-p —James T Greene-ss —Tyler D Herron-p —Colby R Rasmus-of 2006—Adam R Ottavino-p —Christopher R Perez-p 2007 —Peter M Kozma-ss —Clayton G Mortensen-p 2008 —Brett A Wallace-3B
          —Michael L Lynn-p 2009 —Shelby Miller -p 2010 —Zach Cox-3B —Seth Blair p —Tyrell Jenkins-p 2011 —Kolten Wong-2B.
          Successs for sure, but also their share of picks that just never came around. Their rounds success’ after the first have been phenomenol.

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          1. This is absolutely true. Still, when the guys you loved the most in the draft fairly consistently stink, there is an organizational problem with the evaluation of young talent. A guy like Brown or Cosart or Howard represents giving a scout’s gut feel about a guy some credence after the big picks and big draft $ have been spent. The guys like Golson, Costanzo, Larry Greene, Hudson, Hewitt, and Collier — these are the guys whom the organization as a whole, or at least the guy running scouting and his cross checkers were totally in love with and willing to shower $1 mill and a primo draft pick on. The success rate in the draft goes down fairly drastically as you proceed through the rounds. If your success is coming in later rounds, that says there is a severe problem with the talent sense of the guys at the top of the organization.

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            1. I think we can all agree that there are severe problems with talent evaluation at the top of the organization… So maybe that shouldn’t have been an “if” statement…

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  7. I remember all the hoopla after Cosarts debut last year but I didn’t look up his season stats until just now. Simply amazing! How do you rack up a 1.96 ERA with 33 Ks and 35 BBs in 60 IP. I guess 1.2 GB/FB helps but with a 21% LD all those numbers look unsustainable moving forward.

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  8. Cloyd is a free agent BTW. Would not be shocked to see him back at Lehigh, especially if Hernandez is the only starter we add. One can always use an extra starter or two that won’t embarrass you. Cloyd does get on some streaks where he has great command. He just has to be too perfect to get by with his lack of stuff.

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          1. I am sure Ruben will scour the market for veteran arms.
            I believe he mentioned that fact in Orlando, that is, more pitching depth at the AAA level.
            It will be interesting to see what he comes up with.

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  9. In retrospect, this was a solid draft. If the Phillies had drafts like this consistently, the farm system would not get as much criticism as it currently does.

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  10. On a scale of 1-10 this draft was about a 6-8. It’s very unusual to get 5 or 6 major leaguers out of a draft, whether the draft ends up being a 6, 7 or an 8 in the long run will depend upon the performance of Cosart and Pettibone and Gose. A very deep draft indeed – probably the deepest (although certainly not the best) in Phillies history

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  12. when you look at drafts, I like to go back a few years later and ponder “what if” on guys that we did not select. There are a few guys that were available in the early rounds that would have been exciting to have on our current squad. A few that jump out to me:

    Gerrit Cole (taken #28, did not sign)
    Lance Lynn (taken #39)
    Wade Miley (taken #43)

    The one that really jumps out to me is Craig Kimbrel – he was pick 96 (meaning teams had 95 opportunities to draft him prior to where he went, including 4 times by the Phillies). Revisionist history – had the Phillies drafted him, and had he had similar success, and had the Phillies not packaged him to get players, there would have been no need to get Papelbon, and his $$ could have been targeted towards an OF or another SP.

    Well, at least we were not the Rays that year. They took Tim Beckham at #1 overall. His luster has long since worn off, and he just tore his ACL, and will miss most of 2014.

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    1. I guess it is good to sometimes wonder about those things, However, you may well drive yourself crazy if you like to frequently revisit those past decisions, especially concerning drafting. As you know it happens to all the teams, but we all like to believe it always seems to happen to ‘my’ team.

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    2. The value of these ‘what if?s’ is that they show the value of scouting. Who found the guy that 29 other teams passed on? Who fell in love with the total flop? Who said the guy would sign and he didn’t after being offered more than reasonable money? On a guy like Brown or Howard or Cosart, it would be interesting to be a fly on the wall in the Phillies draft room and see who was tearing his hair out begging for the guy to be drafted already, and who was saying he isn’t good enough value for this round. Who was beating the drum for Golson, Hudson, Hewitt and who was expressing skepticism or saying ‘let’s see if he slips a round to where he will be better value’.

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  13. I think the main value of this post was to show how valuable a good draft can be to a team even if it doesn’t produce any significant long-term contributors. Worley and May turned into Revere–that in and of itself was a significant return on the draft if Revere turns out to be a true starting CF.

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