Box Score Recap – 8/23/2013

Box Score Recap

Nice line from Jesse Biddle. Home runs from Cozens and Pullin for WIL. And Cameron Rupp stole a base. I imagine there’s a story there.

Not going to get the graphic up today as I have family in from out of town. Enjoy the discussion.

Here’s the affiliate Scoreboard from MiLB.

http://www.milb.com/scoreboard/index.jsp?sid=milb&org=143&ymd=20130823

 

98 thoughts on “Box Score Recap – 8/23/2013”

  1. Top 10 Prospects:

    01. Maikel Franco
    02. JP Crawford
    03. Jesse Biddle
    04. Roman Quinn
    05. Carlos Tocci
    06. Adam Morgan
    07. Shane Watson
    08. Cesar Hernandez
    09. Severino Gonzalez
    10. Dylan Cozens

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    1. It’s funny … I did a top 20 a month ago and had Severino at No. 20. Looking at it now, I can’t imagine him not being in the top ten. Nice list.

      Where would you put Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez on this list if he signs?

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      1. I’d prefer to not rank a major league ready Cuban as a prospect, but if I had to, I’d put him #3.

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    2. I think Zach Green rounds out my top 10. Who to dump into the 10-15 range? I think Watson with his poor season and injury.

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      1. I don’t get that Shane Watson had a poor season. He played a level ahead of his class, and held his own while the Phillies forced him to abandon his best pitch. If you drop him because he is an injured player, I can understand that, but then Quinn should be dropped too. But Watson did not have a poor season at all.

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        1. +1. I was actually encouraged by Watson’s season, especially since he started coming on before he got hurt. Though, I’d like to know for sure if the Phils lifted his pitch restrictions and he got better results because of that, or if he started getting better results even with the restrictions.

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        2. I agree on Watson’s assessment.
          In his 72 IPs, H/9 were good@7.9, his WHIP was average @1.26, his SO/9 were average to just above at 6.6 and his only really true faulty measurement would be his BB/9 being a bit high at 3.5….but that may have been a combo of new pitching repetoire and a sore and tiring shoulder.

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    3. I still may have Joseph at 10, but i love what i think Cozens can become more than TJ. TJ has done more younger at a higher level offensively so he may be more deserving. For the record are we officially eliminating Asche from consideration for lists moving forward?

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    4. where do you have Kelly Dugan, I see him right around Shane watson either 7 or 8 but definitly in front of Hernandez.

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      1. I have Dugan behind Zach Green, Deivi Grullon and Jose Pujols. I see him somewhere in a group of Cord Sandberg, Andrew Knapp, Aaron Altherr and Cameron Rupp. Dugan’s numbers at Clearwater were good, but that wasn’t his proper level. His numbers in Reading (his proper level) aren’t impressive, but he is holding his own.

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    5. Very nice list, I’m similarly high on Crawford, here’s mine:

      1. Maikel Franco
      2. JP Crawford
      3. Jesse Biddle
      4. Roman Quinn
      5. Carlos Tocci
      6. Adam Morgan
      7. Cesar Hernandez
      8. Severino Gonzalez
      9. Dylan Cozens
      10. Kelly Dugan

      I left Watson off because 2013 was a total loss for him. Peripherals were garbage despite an unnaturally low BABIP, and shoulder troubles are never a good thing for a young arm. At the moment, all the hype is surrounding his potential and 7 IP last year. Dugan makes my list with his AA campaign, despite the OBP/BB% issues. I think they’re an aberration for a guy that’s drawn walks throughout his minor league career @ ~10%.

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    6. It’s really hard for me to pick an order for the top 3 right now. I’ll go:

      1. Crawford
      2. Franco
      3. Biddle
      4. Tocci
      5. Martin (hasn’t graduated yet)
      6. Asche ^
      7. Quinn
      8. Morgan
      9. Hernandez
      10. Watson
      11. Sev Gonzalez
      12. Z. Green

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      2. How in the world do you rank any player in this org ahead of Franco? guy will have 30hr 100rbi @ the tender age of 20. No knock on our other players but Franco is our #1 prospect.and it aint close,

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        2. At the risk of starting another blown out debate on Franco, I’ll just say I think everybody can figure out why. I’m excited for Franco, but I’m also not about to dismiss potential shortcomings. Besides, I really like what Crawford is doing, I like what scouts have said and I like that he’s a SS and apparently a pretty good one.

          Plus, as I said, I think it’s very close at the top. Maybe I’ll change my mind by the start of next season.

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    1. Boy that’s a tough one. I think with the dearth of other options in the mid-20s, he’ll still make my top 30.

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    1. But Franco DID walk!

      And honestly, I’m happier about his walk than his homer. I already know he can hit homers.

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            2. you and I could go up to the plate and not swing. but neither you or I or 99 percent of Profesional Players can replicate what franco is doing. Baseball is a game of Adjustments why should he adjust if he is dominating with what he is doing.

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  5. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=edYlYTAa4CQ&feature=plcp. Crawford AB1
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WK0nzuq09wM&feature=plcp. Crawford AB2
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qLiAyyfBZ8Y&feature=plcp. Crawford AB3
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6fzx3AAX-Nc&feature=plcp. Crawford AB4

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d0pzKVDJsnM&feature=plcp. Tromp AB1
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e6Me46jniI8&feature=plcp. Tromp AB2

    Not sure why the quality isn’t that good.

    No wonder why Crawford is having so much success, if the pitching is like this on. Routine basis then he’s def faced this type and better pitching on the showcase circuit and even against good high schools. Hell, the legion team I coach sees upper 80s on a consistent basis and low 90’s at times. We played a team named Brooklawn and just about all their kids were throwing 87-92. I maybe saw 90 a handful of times last night, maybe. I realize that it was only one game (and that velocity isnt EVERYTHING) but I was still surprised by the lack of velocity with everyone who threw. Was pissed that I didn’t get to see Tocci play but did get to see him coaching 1B, looks like a 15 yr old. Oh and btw it was fun to watch Numata, kid had a smile on his face every min he was out there. And year Crawford looked Good.

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      1. Yeah brooklawn program and there coach bart, really good, these kids play all year long, and it shows, they beat a california team if i am not mistaken. my son was cut from brooklawn, its a really good team, and you have to really be good to make there roster.

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        1. Yeah they 10run ruled to win the WS and were runners up last year. It’s funny in our league the top 6 teams make the district tournament w the top 2 getting to pick the site they play at and every year the teams wait to see where Brooklawn is and they pick a different site. Luckily we weren’t in their bracket however Washington Twp knocked us out. When I played them when I was playing legion (2002-2004 Ewing Post 314) their 7th and 8th hole hitters had 4hrs a piece. In legion 4hrs on the season isn’t anything to sneeze at and the bottom of their line up had that kinda power.

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          1. Brooklawn is very very good….but usually a bunch of punks. (at least that is how it was years ago, doubt much has changed) Bad sportsmanship consistently. Bullies. But…they are really good.

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  6. Might’ve as well put my top 10 up as well.

    1. Franco
    2. Crawford
    3. Morgan
    4. Biddle
    5. Martin
    6. Tocci
    7. Quinn
    9. Z. Green
    10. Puljos

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    1. I’ll play
      Top 10:
      1. Crawford
      2. Morgan
      3. Biddle
      4. Franco
      5. Watson
      6. Tocci
      7. Cozens
      8. Z. Green
      9. Puljos
      10. Quinn

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  7. top 30
    1,Franco
    2,Crawford
    3,biddle
    4,quinn
    5,Z, green
    6,asche
    7,Martin
    8,Morgan
    9,S,Gonzalez
    10,Encarnacion
    11,Grullon
    12,C,Hernandez
    13,WAtson
    14, Tocci
    15,Dugan
    16,Sandberg
    17,Altheir
    18,Giles RHR(not gillies)
    19,Pujols
    20Francisco
    21,Cozans
    22,Joseph
    23,Knapp
    24,Hiciano
    25,Pullen
    26,Nunez
    27,Mecias
    28,Wright
    29,Gueller
    30,L,Greene
    ,

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    1. Interesting. Zach Green at #5, Dylan Cozens at #21 and Watson at #13. The numbers, age and level are similar, and the peripherals favor Cozens. Not sure how a 2012 draftee playing in SS, is rated higher than a 2012 pitcher sent to pitch in Full-season.

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      1. I like all 3 guys, Watson has a chance to be a middle of the rotation guy, Cozans swing gets long and I fear he will have a tough time with good fb inside @ higher levels. Green has a chance to be elite in the mold of franco. bat speed and strength. and it wouldent surprise me if he is 1 or 2 on list by this time next year,

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        1. Didn’t Matt’s write up on Green say that he didn’t have a ton of bat speed and that was a question about him? He’s very strong but the bat speed isn’t impressive.

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            1. Matt Winks, one of the people who submit regular content for the site…He had a big write up on Green only a few days ago.

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            2. ‘The bat speed is average and there a questions about how it will hold up against plus plus velocity, but it shouldn’t be a fatal flaw’

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            4. gotcha. i can only go by what my eyes saw in spring training. i was actually pissed they did not send him to lakewood. saw good bat speed. Thought Angelo Mora was going to be a breakout prospect from what I saw in spring. so i probably dont know what the heck im talking about. although Mora’s 2nd half # look OK for a SS

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          1. There is no way Perkins isn’t on the top 30 on most lists. Leaving Perkins off is a huge oversight on that list. It is interesting that so many people were high on him earlier in the year and then when he got injured people just completely abandoned interest. But he’s not done bad since his return. He should probably be somewhere in the top 20-25

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            1. Perkins is overlooked because he is a college player. Many insiders don’t even look at a college player’s production until they get to AA. Unlucky for him, he got hurt. He was having a Cody Asche type season in high A, but he didn’t get to impress, because he never got up to AA. But you guys are right… He is an oversight on that list, and he is better than probably 5 guys on that list.

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            2. Yeah. He’s improved his BB and K rates from last year and increased his ISO this year as well. I’m not sure if he’ll hit enough for a corner outfield spot but he has a chance

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  9. Franco playing 1st base? Great! Asche for 3rd and Franco at 1st. Like several of us have advocated. Two right-handed guys with power in the midst of the lefty oriented lineup. Hope this is the FO plan. Ruf at LF and 1st base until Franco is ready, then Ruf back to LF. Dom to RF.
    A much better balanced lineup.

    The Big Piece remains a problem and an obstacle to this better offense. Dreaming: he retires due to his many and continuing injuries and there is an insurance policy to cover the salary due. Yes, a dream and wishful thinking. So go easy on the barbs. More helpful would be trying to conjure up some means of dealing with him and his extended, overpaid and injurious contract.

    Franco hitting 4th, Dom at #3, Ruf at #5 or #6. Much better balanced lineup…calculated to score more and exciting to we, the fans.

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    1. Honestly if you’re going to have Ruf, Asche, and Franco all in the lineup. Isn’t it better defensively if you put Franco at 3B, Ruf at 1B, and Asche to the OF? Asche moves the best out of all of them and would likely be the better corner OF, he’s also got a better arm than Ruf for the OF.

      Franco is a better defensive 3B than Asche.

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      1. That makes the most sense. Asche to LF…he has the speed and the arm for LF and actually is probably a better defensive upgrade in LF then Domo, who will go to RF next year.

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      2. Can we wait until Franco actually can hit some MLB pitching before he is plugged into the cleanup spot?
        He is having an amazing year and is a Top Top prospect but I cannot dismiss the scouting reports. He has at least 1 more full year in the minors and will be limited to infield corners.
        Asche should have the most position flexibility and even he I see as nothing more than average 3B. Might he be able to contribute at both 3B and OF? I like the flexibility Martin Prado provides but that dude has played 2B and SS as well, in addition to being in top10 and top20 in MVP voiting in his brief career so far.

        If Ruf can provide Pat Burrell like numbers that would be a huge benefit to this lefty heavy Phillies. Hopefully Howard can return and mash RHP and be ‘rested’/platooned against lefties.

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      3. great observasion Fly by Night, RAJ u listining? the reasoning may be that they just want to reward franco and get his feet wet in the big league so he knows what to expect in 2014, since howard will be playing 1st next year,Ruff will be in OF, they wanna give cody as many reps as he can get @ 3b because he will be in comp with franco for 3b job next spring, only 1 of franco or asche make the team next year unless they make asche a bench player

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    1. If Quinn can’t play short (which is highly likely) he isn’t top prospect. His offensive numbers at CF don’t put him in top 15.

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      1. Are you saying his numbers this year? Because they wouldn’t even put him as a top-15 at SS. This year has been a lost season offensively. If Quinn can reach his offensive potential and be more like he was in Williamsport that’s a .280-.290 guy with a .360-.370 OBP and elite level speed. That is most certainly a top-15 prospect at SS or CF. There’s only 6 CFers in all of MLB who have an OPS over .800, the next 10 are over .700. If Quinn doesn’t develop power he’s unlikely to tap into the .800 OPS range, but he could certainly play in that .700 range and be a lead-off hitter just with his OBP and speed.

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        1. Why no mention of Quinn as a second basemen. Most of his errors are throws and throwing from second is so much easier. I see him as like the younger version of Luis Castillo. (The Marlin version, not the Met version)

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          1. I think it’s been said before that the kinds of problems he has at shortstop wouldn’t be changed much by a move to 2nd. His arm isn’t bad but I think it’s been said he’s got footwork problems.

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  11. Franco at first base:
    “It’s just to give him another position he could go to,” assistant general manager Benny Looper said. “His bat is coming quick, it looks like. He’s probably going to be limited to third or first. He’s never played first so we wanted to break him in and see if that’s a possibility.”
    Looper expects Franco to man first base for the remainder of double-A Reading’s season. He started there again Saturday night in the second game of a doubleheader. The Fightin Phils have nine games to play after Saturday.
    Some scouts are skeptical that Franco can stick at third base because of his slow foot speed. Others cite his sure hands and strong arm as reasons why he can do it. The Phillies believe third base is his future.
    Franco turns 21 on Monday. He was hitting .314 with a .913 OPS before Saturday.
    “It’s surprising how good he is [at third] because he can’t run,” Looper said. “But there have been a lot of third basemen who could not run. Brooks Robinson was one.
    “He has a great arm. His range is less than adequate. He’s pretty good on slow rollers. I think he could be a major-league third basemen.”
    So why first base and why now? Looper said the organization’s infield coordinator, Doug Mansolino, has worked with Franco for the last few weeks at first. They feel this is a low-pressure situation for a tryout.
    The team had hoped to send Franco to the Arizona Fall League, but they were not granted permission by Franco’s winter ball team in the Dominican Republic. Looper said the Phillies were promised that Franco would see regular playing time in the Dominican. The Phillies, though, have less influence there than in the AFL.

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    1. Wow, I thought my cautious but on balance not negative comments in the other thread about his defense might draw accusations that I’m being negative (in fairness they didn’t), but to see Looper say that his range at third is “less than adequate.” is concerning.

      I’ve weighed in on the Franco to first base talk – and it is (thankfully) only a small minority around here advocating that. As I’ve said, he won’t (and definitely shouldn’t) be moved to first base unless he has to be for defensive reasons. Despite my alleged negativity about him, I still think he has a decent shot to be a star at third base. At first base, his upside is likely a somewhat above average regular.

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      1. I’ve seen him in person and he really isn’t bad at 3B. His glove is better than Sano’s. I won’t argue his arm is as good, but for range, catching the stuff he get’s to, Franco is better.

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        1. Well that’s somewhat reassuring. I WANT him to be solid (at least) at third, because the best chance the team has to have a star level position player (Utley aside) in the short run is Franco at third. At least until Crawford gets to the majors. 🙂

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      2. obviously it was a typo and they meant ‘more than adequate’ if you read the context of the line. He then shortly says …he thinks he could be major league third basemen.

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        1. Well having below average range and a good arm doesn’t mean you can’t play 3rd base. It sounds like he could play an average 3rd base but not much better and maybe worse. However, as he gets older people think he might not be able to play 3rd base at all.

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  12. to me this means he will be a sept call up. they dont want him to embaress himself @ 1b. they are saying he is a 3b but will play the remainder of season @ 1b. c you in philly in sept maikel congrats.

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    1. Personally I think it’d be a mistake to call him up in September but I’ll still enjoy watching him if they do.

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      1. Phillies need to know what they got. 30 or 40 ab’s @ MLB and the past year and a half as track record.will give them a glimpse of the future. Machado, Harper, trout, help their teams win. they do not care about service time if the kid is an upgrade. Cardinals did not worry about pujols service time or short stay in milb and he has not looked back since. Hopefully the same happens with Franco

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        1. 30-40 PA at the MLB level is an absolutely meaningless sample size regardless of how well or badly he does if he were called up.

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          1. and it’s not like he’d do anything to change the Phillies plans.

            Darin Ruf came up last September and got 37 PA. He put up a .333/.351/.727/1.079 slash with 3 HR’s. That made the Phillies think so much of him that they believed Delmon Young was a better option for the OF.

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            2. Don’t take this the wrong way, because I thought your take on the Franco BB issue, while wrong, was at least better argued than … some others, but why is a low BB rate in 240 plus PA an issue of sample size, while 35-40 PA is enough to change the Phillies’ plans?

              Franco is not coming up this September and, he won’t be starting 2014 in Philadelphia.. If Asche falters (I hope not) and if Franco works on what he needs to in AAA, he could be in Philadelphia as early as mid 2014. More likely is a September call up NEXT year and the starting third baseman in 2015.

              Regarding Ruf, he absolutely needed time to work on his OF defense. I would think that this season’s success by him is vindication of the team’s strategy, rather than the reverse. Not that you’re wrong about D. Young, of course. 🙂

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            3. They will call him up to get his feet wet. It is much easier to go to spring training as already have had some big league time then never have played above2a. It’s what they did with Ruff. 3b will not be given to asche. He and franco will battle it out with franco having a slight advantage because he hits right handed.

              I get what you say about walks but it does not apply to franco. With the results he is having walks mean nothing to me. Once and if he struggles he will make an adjustment as all good pure hitters do.

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            4. And by “wrong” (obvious IMO), I don’t mean “wrong in all particulars.” I mean wrong in the ultimate conclusion, that the low BB rate is no concern at all. SS may have a role (though IMO a small one), your point about the change of approach is even probably correct (though again potentially more problematic than you think). And yes there is good reason to believe he can fix it.

              But it just boggles my mind that a player, over 240 plus PA, regresses massively in an important metric, and a certain segment of the readership are not concerned even a little bit. What would people have been saying if he had regressed in his HR rate or BA? I expect then people would be singing a different tune.

              Enough, though, I’ve made my point. And obviously most of the people disagreeing (I’m excepting you from this, and, ironically, POSSIBLY Steven) don’t understand the importance of BB at the most basic level.

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  13. What to make of Adam Morgan since his return from resting his “small” rotator cuff tear.
    Tonight he goes 4IP, 6H, 1ER, 2BB, 4K So since his return from he’s:
    28.1IP, 1.59 ERA, 10.48 H/9, 3.50 BB/9, 1.55 WHIP.

    He’s been on a pitch count that is maxed out now at 75 pitches. However, as you can see he’s allowing *A LOT* of base runners even if they’re not scoring.

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    2. Wait until he gets his arm strength back. It is apparent (to me) that the FO is aiming at his being a potential competitor for a starting spot in ’14, and he is pitching now on the way back to being viable in ’14.

      If it would help rather than hinder his arm strength and he is up to it, he could be going to the AFL to pitch for further game experience and arm strength. IMO, they are hoping for competition between Morgan, Martin and Buchanan to be considered since the staff is pretty much wide open. Unless they grab one on the market, but NOT giving up their early draft choice.

      Is it somewhat disloyal to hope they will lose a lot more games this season in order to place earlier on the draft roll?

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  15. Larry this one is for you—-•Amaro may look to bolster the Phillies’ statistics department, according to an article by Tyler Kepner of The New York Times. “We may be looking to fortify some of our information with some more statistical analysis,” Amaro said. “I’m not so stubborn that we can’t try to do things a little bit different, or think that we can’t make better decisions.” However, scouting and player development will remain the Phils’ focus, Amaro added.

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    1. That’s good news, and despite my negative statements about him and the organization, IMO one of several recent signs of hope. The decision making in the past month has IMO been much better.

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    2. I remember the Sixers saying this maybe a year or two ago, but it didn’t really matter until the front office was cleansed and the old blood was replaced with new blood.

      However, they also had a new ownership group willing to embrace analytics because they were of the financial sector and know how important numbers are in the financial world in predicting trends/growth/whatever else.

      Last off-season Ruben Amaro said that the Phillies needed to improve their approach at the plate and what did he do? He signed Michael Young and Delmon Young who have horrible walk-rates in their careers. Then to justify the Delmon Young signing I believe was his infamous “I don’t care about walks, I care about runs” statement.

      When the Phillies went through their epic walkless drought Ruben Amaro then said he didn’t understand why they weren’t walking… Maybe it’s because you put together a team who didn’t walk?

      They’ll probably clean out a broom closet, throw a “Chief Analytic Officer” title on the door and shove some guy in there just to say they’re embracing it.

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    3. This is indeed good new- particularly the implies acknowledgment that what they how they have been evaluating major league players isn’t working. Perhaps the tipping point was the seasons had by the Young brothers- both seasons easily predictable, and in fact predicted by many on here, by even a basic understanding of numbers.

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  16. So here’s a question for you – what’s more impressive (usual SSS caveat)

    Rookie:: .345/.443/465, BB rate 14.9%, K rate 14.9%
    A: .280/.379/.320 BB rate 13.8% K rate 20%

    Adjusted for level, the latter IMO.

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    1. Sample is way too small for me to put too much credence on the latter. I do like Crawford’s start to A ball though. He’s still getting on base well and he had a couple of steals.

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  17. Looper said tonight that Franco WILL NOT get called up, don’t really think that even needed to be said but anyways. Looper said a more realistic ETA for Franco is a year and a half from now.

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  18. If franco keeps hitting, he will be up faster, my god watching jimmy rollins play, is just awful, he just never hustles anymore, even in the field he is not the same player, if sandberg comes back, I bet jimmy goes,

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    1. Possibly. The Phillies may try to persuade Jimmy to waive his 10 and 5 clause.
      Franco, if gets out of the gates fast next April/.May could see a mid-June call-up. I believe the Super Two issue may be a factor in that decision, just not sure at this point,

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    2. I don’t see what Franco has to do with Rollins. And I don’t know if you noticed, Roc, but Jimmy has been on fire the last 5 games. Maybe Sandberg got him going somehow.

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