Box Score Recap – 8/21/2013

Box Score Recap

Maikel Franco with a double and his 27th HR of the year among his three hits, and he added a walk – just his second in his last ten games. Also for Reading, Kelly Dugan went 2-4, and Seth Rosin returned from the DL with a bullpen appearance. ICYMI – Brody Colvin went on the DL with a shoulder issue. Trey Williams had a nice day for GCL – 2-3 with a double and his second professional home run.

Aaron Altherr 2-4 with his 11th HR, but he also struck out twice – His K Rate sits near 28%, though it’s around 25% since the All-Star Break. If 25% is close to his norm, with his decent BB rate, and if he can add a little more pop, he could make it. He’s added 33 ISO points over last year, after adding 50 the prior year – definitely a good trend.

And some thoughts on Williamsport – another clunker on Wednesday for Mitch Gueller – 6R (4 earned) on 10H, 3BB, 0K in 3.1 IP. Four hits for Logan Pierce, and three for Andrew Pullin – you’d have to consider his performance at the plate this year a bit of a disappointment. He obviously gets more time to work it out while he’s working on a new defensive position, but OPSing under .700 is not ideal for someone who’s hit tool is supposed to be his meal ticket. And for as well as he’s pitched in WIL, you’d have to expect Tyler Buckley to be a candidate for a double-jump in the off-season – Ks right around 9/9IP, with walks around 3.5/9, and a WHIP just barely north of 1.00. Pretty good.

Here’s the affiliate Scoreboard from MiLB.

http://www.milb.com/scoreboard/index.jsp?sid=milb&org=143&ymd=20130821

8-21-13 boxscores

97 thoughts on “Box Score Recap – 8/21/2013”

  1. Franco’s performance continues to make me wonder about moving forward with he and Asche. Asche can really pick it at 3B but the bat will not be what Franco’s is. Decisions, Decisions!

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    1. It seems like Franco could shift to first, leaving Ruf in the OF, which would potentially provide some pretty good offense to the middle of the lineup. I’m disappointed in our farm as a whole, but think that there are some good pieces to build around. Now if we could only unload that Howard albatross…

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      1. Franco loses a ton of value at first base, and he’s seen as the better defensive 3B of the two. It makes little sense to move him.

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          1. I’m not sure that decisions about where to play Franco going forward should be based on an assumption that he will hit like Albert Pujols in the big leagues.

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            2. Asche will have to show he can hit in the majors to warrant staying in the lineup though. He needs to get ABs and a chance to adjust, but just because a guy hits in the minors doesn’t mean they become an MLB regular. I’m still shocked Michael Taylor didn’t turn into a productive MLB player. He was a college draftee like Asche and had a poor Williamsport debut like Asche and then put up a combined .950+ OPS his 2nd year splitting Lakewood/Clearwater and then .944 OPS his 3rd year splitting Reading/LHV.

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          2. In general, you don’t want to move someone down the defensive spectrum unless you have to. You’re giving up value for nothing.

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            1. I get it I’m simply stirring a debate. The Tigers moved Castellano’s off 3B which probably only happened because they acquired Fielder. Had they not Miggy is still at 1B and Nick still at 3B.

              Wouldn’t you say its about getting the bats in the line-up in the best possible fits? Not sure I want the solution to be trade one of them.

              I think if a guy like Dombrowski doesn’t have a ton of regard for defensive value I have to at least consider it. Dave is one of the brightest minds in baseball.

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            2. In the end, the wise manager puts his best 8 bats in the game at positions they can field well. While the prospect of Asche, Franco, and say Zach Green developing into plus major league 3B, there is no guarantee that anyone will offer comparable value to us in a trade. If not, you keep them and rearrange defensive positions to get your best bats in the game, without sacrificing D. So, if Asche, Franco, Green can all be good defensive 1B, corner OF, and 3B, theoretically speaking, you put the best defensive 3B at 3B, then the best defensive corner OF in the OF, and the third guy, whom we’ve assumed is a good defensive 1B plays 1B. It doesn’t matter if he has what is thought of as typical 1B offense. It only matters that you don’t have a better bat relegated to the bench or AAA, who could also play a good defensive 1B. If you do have a better guy, then the third thirdbaseman is relegated to the bench or perhaps you lower your trade demands a little, or you trade the other guy you’ve put on 1B if he brings back more value. This is the same discussion we always have with Utley. It doesn’t matter to the team that you put him at a position, 2B, which maximizes his WAR. It is the total team WAR that counts. So, if you move Utley to OF or 1B to preserve Utley’s legs, and you still have the best 8 bats in the lineup, and you’re good defensively, then you’ve helped the team. Let’s say the 8th best bat was Hernandez and that Hernandez is better defensively than Utley at 2B and Utley is better defensively that Hernandez at 1B, and both these guys have higher WAR than Howard, then you help the team moving Utley to 1B and benching Howard.

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      1. The best value is this – let both guys prove themselves and then trade one to a team that has their own situation like this at a different position, or other scenario.

        I’m not a proponent of moving Howard at this point – he is better with us at $25M per year batting 6th or 7th, then he is playing somewhere else and us paying him $15-20M per year. I think with healthy legs he can get back to being a 25 HR a year guy which in the 6 or 7 hole is not that bad.

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  2. Severino looks good even on an off day: 6/1 K/BB, 2 ER in 5 IP. He in Reading and Crawford in Lakewood are probably the two things I’m looking most forward to seeing next season.

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    1. On Severino, I was just about to write the same thing. Crawford is doing all the right things. I didn’t expect him to go 3 for 4 each game in Lakewood. I’m expecting him to gain some comfort with the place. Next year, he can come in confident and strong. Let’s hope he doesn’t chose to do a Larry Greene workout over the winter. Jog to the fridge, grab a gallon of ice cream. Spin around and walk fast to the kitchen counter and grab 2 pieces of pie and then back to the couch to watch Storage Wars or the Bachelorette or something like that.

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      1. I’m not one for “working out”, but I’m willing to try this Larry Greene regimen. Does it work if you’re watching like, I don’t know, Breaking Bad reruns all day? I could excel at this plan.

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  3. Franco yesterday:
    1st inning: 4 pitch walk
    3rd inning: first pitch single
    4th inning: first pitch home run
    6th inning: 3-2 double — 9 pitch AB, was down 0-2
    7th inning: 3-1 fly out (didn’t swing at first 4 pitches)

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      1. Yup.

        Really, I’m much more concerned about his approach than his swing. More succinctly: ABs, not ABS.

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      1. ha. just one game. but it does raise a good point, many are concluding that he has a horrible approach because he doesn’t walk a lot or strike out a lot. however, we have no idea how many pitches he sees. we did hear another post a few weeks ago that he saw a lot of pitches in a game which he neither struck out nor walked. the point is, looking at those results are not a perfect correlation to approach that many assume.

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        2. If you read a past post of mine it shows a 29 AB SS and how many pitches he saw in each of those abs . . An average around 4 per AB

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  4. Franco had a really good night yesterday. Mitch Gueller had another terrible night. I just don’t know what the problem is there. With a guy who has supposedly good stuff he just allows so many baserunners and doesn’t get many K’s

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  5. If Crawford can stay around where he is hitting now for the remainder of the season does he start next season at Clearwater? Or does he get a month or so back in Lakewood before a promotion (assuming he keeps hitting)?

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    1. Lakewood has less than two weeks left so there really is not much time to really evaluate Crawford at that level. He will start 2014 in Lakewood and his promotion to Clearwater will depend on his growth next year.

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    2. I think he starts in Lakewood no matter what. The few weeks he spends in Lakewood the rest of the season aren’t enough to judge where he’s at no matter what. Plus it’ll be his first year of full season ball next year. They should start him somewhere he can be appropriately challenged but not overwhelmingly so. It’s possible he could move up to Clearwater part way through the season next year with really good performance but that’s unpredictable. If it does happen though then that means Crawford is an elite prospect.

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    3. He’ll start next season in Lakewood and spend a significant amount of time there. It’s doubtful he comes out of the gate dominating there — it has been theorized on this board that the org likes to use the early months in Lakewood to work on prospects weaknesses, so maybe they look at adding power to Crawford’s swing. If he does dominate, he could be in line for a midseason promotion, although I think it’s more likely he spends the entire year in Lakewood.

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      1. This is what everyone said last year this time about Tocci and Williamsport. Crawford will start in Clearwater. Quinn will be in Lakewood.

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        1. I’ll give you a dollar if that’s true. I’ll even write down your name right now. “Anonymous”. Ok, let’s see how it goes. Claim your prize in April if Quinn is repeating Lakewood and Crawford starts in CLR.

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  6. Saw Cutters in person last night in State College. Gueller didn’t give up a ton of really hard hit balls, but wasn’t missing bats much obviously. His FB was sitting around 89-91, but seemed to not have much movement. Cozens has a nice stroke, but made two baserunning blunders, one resulting in being out rounding 2nd. Pierce drove the ball nicely and had a great game. I was excited to see Green but he had a mediocre night, and struck out swinging with the bases loaded in the 9th. I was surprised how big Green looked in person. Buckley was touching 95 on the scoreboard gun.

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    1. Thanks for the report.

      Gueller sitting 89-91 with little movement? Yikes. I hate to be the guy who says it, but … maybe it’s time to grab a glove and fielder’s mitt.

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      2. Giving up on him a year after he’s drafted. Glad you aren’t making the player development decisions.

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        1. He was drafted last year, yes, but he’s about to complete his second season as a professional pitcher. To show for it, he has a 5.52 ERA, a 4.0/5.9 BB/K rate per 9 innings and a 1.722 WHIP (which is nearly 2 this season). I’m all for patience, but this guy was highly regarded as an outfielder coming out of HS and has literally shown nothing as a pitcher thus far.

          You want to criticize me for making the suggestion? Fine. But at this point, the organization isn’t doing its job if it isn’t at least considering a switch.

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            1. I know, I was here. But I’m not trolling. It’s getting to the point where it’s a legitimate suggestion, and just because someone cried wolf about it for the past year, it doesn’t mean we should ignore the howls that are growing closer.

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      4. Wow, that’s disturbing. I was all for letting him pitch but he’ll never be a propsect throwing 89 – 91 with his stuff. I’m sure they’ll work with him in the instructs on his mechanics but if they think there’s no more mph in his fastball, you can bet they’ll be talking aboit converting him.

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    2. Buckley should throwing 95..the guy is 6’5″ 230…good grief. I believe he is already 23 years old so a definitely double jump candidate to clearwater.

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    3. Had a scout say to me in July that he thought Gueller looked tired. Nelson Prada said earlier in the year he was consistently 92-93. So it’s obviously in there. Maybe fatigue is an issue.

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    3. That was a throw he probably should not have made, but wow. The balance and body control it takes to pull that off stepping on the mound is pretty impressive.

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  9. crawford will start at lakewood, quinn at clearwater.. at some point, perhaps they give up on Quinn at SS (because they have crawford) and move him somewhere else

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    1. I’m gonna predict that Crawford excels at Lakewood and gets promoted to Clearwater by August. I know this is unusual for Phillies HS draft picks, but they seem to be willing to be aggressive with him and overall they have been more aggressive promoting players who perform well even since Joe Jordan came onboard.

      When Crawford is promoted to Clearwater I think the Roman Quinn to CF will either begin or already be underway during the 2014 season at Clearwater. He doesn’t seem to be a player who can mentally block out certain things. Some players even if they’re not hitting can still be elite level defenders, or if they’re having a horrible defensive game still go out and hit. Quinn seems to be a guy who needs to be completely comfortable in order to perform to his best. He continues to say he would prefer to be in CF. I think with a stud like Crawford now in the system it makes the Phillies more willing to make that move even sooner than waiting it out.

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      1. Is there any time this year for Quinn to put on display what he has been working on for past month or so (setup, footwork, accuracy)?

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      2. Rollins was in Philly during his 5th season and he did play his first season in his draft year. He was a second rounder who put up rather pedestrian numbers in rookie and then A-league play the next year. Since Crawford is a primo draft pick, has already moved to A ball and put up great rookie ball numbers, it is certainly not unreasonable to think he may be in Philly in his 4th pro season.

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        1. If he follows Franco’s current/expected progression:

          2014: Lakewood
          2015: Clearwater/Reading
          2016: Lehigh Valley/Philadelphia

          That would have him in Philadelphia late in his fourth season. If he continues to play the way he has so far, I can totally see it happening.

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        1. I think they start Tocci in CLR and if he sinks, move him back. Of course, a lot will depend on how he looks in spring ball, but it would seem logical to progress him forward until he totally tanks with the bat. AA is a good place to repeat if he really hasn’t turned the corner, IMO. I know it wasn’t Joe Jordan, but that’s what the org did with Galvis, and I could see them doing it again with Tocci.

          Now, if he’s OPSing .400 in A+ on June 1 next year, and showing no signs of progress, then that’s a different story.

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            1. Because Tocci has played a full season at Lakewood, whereas Crawford’s experience is limited to the Gulf Coast League.

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  10. Whatt if they keep Crawford in Lakewood and keep Quinn in Ext Spring Training? Then if Crawford can handle it, promote him to Clearwater and bring up Quinn to lakewood. Just an idea. It would give Quinn time to work on his defense.

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    1. Makes no sense to leave Quinn in XST. He is a legit prospect and he needs to play against appropriate compettion. Plus, you don’t just demote a prospect from Lakewood to XST the following year — bad on his psyche.

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      1. Yes, he’s missed time at Lakewood this year, but his OPS is .669. For a young SS, that’s good enough to move up and certainly to stay where you are. I understand as the Crawford enthusiasm, but the willingness to sacrifice Quinn is a little bizarre. I know people rank Quinn over a fairly broad range, but I doubt anyone has him as worse than top 15 in our system. I say he’s top 10, likely top 5.

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        1. Some people seem eager to move people off their positions. I’ve seen it suggested here multiple times that Franco should be moved to 1b, even though by all accounts he is a good 3b.

          I do wonder though at what point it would make sense to shift Quinn so he can learn to play CF. Obviously it’s not as difficult to learn as SS, but the more reps he gets there as a minor leaguer the better.

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          1. He played CF in high school, so it’s not foreign to him at all, and by all accounts he was good out there. I personally think the Quinn shift will happen in the middle of his AA year if he is not handling the position, or if they really have got to move Crawford up to the same level as Quinn and Quinn is simply not ready to move up. That could happen next summer, I guess, if Quinn is still having struggles at SS and Crawford rakes his way out of the SAL, though even then Quinn’s bat may be ready to move to AA. We’ll see.

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            1. If they have to move Quinn off SS to make room for Crawford, but think Quinn is making adequate infield progress, can/should they try 2B before CF?

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  11. Pujols 2-4 with a triple and a HR today. It’s his 6th HR of the year. He’s certainly showing off some power for a 17-year-old kid in his first season of professional ball.

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    1. “@StatsKing: Jose Pujols jumped on a first pitch FB and tied the game at 2 with a 2-run bomb to LF. Kid has such easy power it’s insane #Phillies” in another tweet Chris king said that he would grade his raw power at a 65 and possibly 70 out of 80

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      1. Amazingly, his OPS is .695, despite having a BA near the Mendoza line (.203). He’s got a 11.3 percent BB rate — nearly triple Zach Green’s from the GCL last year. The red flags are obvious (nearly 30 percent K rate, that batting average), but if he starts making steady contact, look out.

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        1. Pujols and Grullon are definitely good signings by Ruben and the gang.
          Add Tocci and Encarnacion to that and we could have something special in 4/5 years.
          If Ruben only had signed one Top Ten LA in ’09 and ’10, system could be that much better!
          And Happy Birthday Carlos Tocci.

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        2. He’s also been unlucky with a BABIP at around .250 but the scouting reports are positive and that’s what matters most right now

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  12. sorry if i post in wrong spot, but I hope this team doesnt resign kenrick, he has been awful, 42 runs in his last ten starts over 54 innings, god awful, not counting tonight, if they get a one year deal at low number, i might take a chance. but rather move on , cloyd can pitch that bad at less money.

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    1. Kendrick is basically being Kyle Kendrick. He usually has a stretch where he’s pretty good, it’s just this year it started at the beginning of the season so people said he finally ‘clicked’. Since the middle of May his ERA is over 5.00. That’s a bigger sample size than what he did the first 6 or 7 weeks of the season.

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    2. The question you need to ask is, if not Kendrick, who? Remember, with both Lannan and Halladay likely out of the picture, there would be three spots to fill if you ditched Kendrick. Even assuming Martin gets one of those spots, that leaves Pettibone and Cloyd for the other two. Martin Pettibone and Cloyd looks mighty bad for your 3/4/5 starters; more to the point, I’d certainly take Kendrick over Cloyd (Cloyd would IMO be much worse over a full season) and probably over Pettibone, maybe over Martin as well.. Down the road you have Morgan and Biddle, but if they are part of the staff at all in 2014, it will not be to start the season.

      So what’s left? A cheap FA pickup? Maybe. But if you pay Kendrick dollars you get Kendrick quality; why not stick with the guy you know? And given the above options, you could make a value FA sign and also have room for Kendrick.

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      1. Agree you might as well re-sign kendrick assuming it’s no longer than a 3 year deal. You could re-shuffle the deck chairs on the titanic and sign a guy like Feldman, but he’s probably looking at the same type of deal. There’s something to be said for his durability and he has been a bit unlucky with BABIP this year (especially with RH batters).

        I think ideally you want your 4th and 5th rotation spots to be filled with Martin, Pettibone, Biddle (I still think he could win a spot out of spring training), or lottery ticket free agent X. To have any of those guys penciled in to start the season as a #3 is problematic, especially knowing that someone will eventually get hurt which’ll stretch the rotation even further.

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      2. What are you smoking larry, you usually make sense, pay kenrick dollars you get kenrick quality?? what quality?? the reason we dont stick with him is we know him. couple of good starts and then the junk we have seen in his last 11 starts, almost a run a inning, nuts

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        1. Kendrick has an ERA this year of 4.45, career 4.33. There’s PLENTY of starters out there who are worse. 19 or 21 this year alone (depending upon whether you use the career or yearly ERA), AMONG PITCHERS WITH ENOUGH INNING TO QUALIFY. Many more who pitched less than that. Most 5th starters are worse. Many fourth starters are worse. The Dodgers’ starter with the fourth most starts has an ERA of 4.70. A replacement level ERA is about 5.00. The difference between 4.45 and 5.00 is substantial.

          Players who are above replacement value have real value. What do you think a 4.45 ERA starting pitcher goes for on the open market? More than Kendrick is making, that’s for sure. (Actually, we can answer that question, at least approximately – he gets about what Joe Blanton got, 2/15).

          Look, I’m not advocating a big contract. Part of my rationale is that he has another arb year – and even you agree that, under that circumstance, he should stay on the team.

          No one is giving him 3/30 even when he does reach FA. Maybe if he had continued to pitch as well as he had earlier in the year. But he didn’t.

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    3. Just QO him, ok…..he accepts its one year, he signs elsewhere the team gets a top ten rd supp draft choice.

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        1. So we can sign him to a one year deal??? if that is the case okay, but not three years 30 million. rather look at other options, in fa and trade market, why would you want a hitting machine like him. for three more years, look at his numbers, terrible. r

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          1. Kendrick is a perfectly capable #3. He was actually having an above average season before the concussion. His numbers aren’t terrible. You sound like you don’t like him on a personal level.

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        1. roccom….. 2nd-Year Arb Eligible, 2 yrs/$7.5M (12-13) Arb Eligible: 2014, Free Agent: 2015 ……….why don’t we table the discussion until next August (2014)..

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  13. I believe its time to move M.Gueller to the OF as well. If he wasnt considered a legit hitting prospect coming out of course you would leave him there and see what happens. But its getting to that point where they have to make this decision. I mean they cant wait another 3 years when hes 23 then decide to move him. Then add 4 years of learning to hit in the minors and all of a sudden hes almost 30 year old nobody.,

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    2. dave….You have a point. Gueller was drafted as a slightly older player at 18.5 or so of age and will be 20 entering next season probably in LKW. However, through 76IPs his WHIP of 1.7 is horrific, nevertheless it is but a SSS. I would think before the Phillies decide where his position will finally be, they will let him get at least two more full seasons as a pitcher to make that determination. I can’t see them doing anything with Gueller, minimum, until after the completion of the 2015 season.

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