Box Score Recap – 8/20/2013

Box Score Recap

Mauricio Robles has allowed zero runs, 2 hits and struck out 12 in his last 11 innings. Bad news is he’s allowed 10 walks. So I guess the question has to be: who in their right minds is swinging when he’s on the mound? Just stand there looking like you’re willing to swing and cross your fingers. Speaking of walks, check out Ken Giles’ line – 2 runs on zero hits with 4 walks and 1 K in 2/3 of an inning. He left with the bases loaded after walking them full, allowing a run on a bases-loaded sac fly and then WALKING THE NEXT MAN TO LOAD THE BASES AGAIN. Yikes.

Here’s the affiliate Scoreboard from MiLB.

http://www.milb.com/scoreboard/index.jsp?sid=milb&org=143&ymd=201308208-20-13 boxscores

 

47 thoughts on “Box Score Recap – 8/20/2013”

  1. I wanted to make a comment about Franco but I didn’t want to go down that rabbit hole again. Knapp with his 4th HR. Larry Greene is playing better since Crawford arrived. Maybe he’s feeling the heat of a guy 2 drafts later blowing right by him. CLW had batting practice and Giles tried to give some back. Childs had to come in to put out the minor fire. Giles had a game that he can learn more from than if he pitched perfectly. He’d better go look at the tape. Talk to his catcher, pitching coach and Manager. Something was not right and figure out what that was. The next time the game starts to get away, you think back to this game and say my arm slot isn’t right, or not driving toward the catcher or the stride isn’t long enough or two long. It can be fixed on the fly.

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    1. He should, of course, do all those things you said. But he shouldn’t assume it’s the same problem the next time he starts to lose his feel. When he starts to lose it, he should call in his catcher and ask. If the catcher doesn’t know, then the manager should come out to chat about what he’s seeing.

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    2. I know it must not happen often, but the last three(3) first round picks are all on the same team, and none are behind the level they are supposed to be at this time.

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    1. If he had done this last year in AA he would be a prospect. But at 24 in A+, the numbers just aren’t eye-popping enough. It’s a shame, really. Looking back at his numbers, his defense is RIDICULOUS. He’s obviously got the tools to be a good offensive players, too, but he’s a long shot to ever amount to anything.

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    2. No, and I don’t think he ever really was, or should have been, considered a legitimate prospect. He’s never shown much exceptvery good defense.

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  3. Balderdash. You self styled experts seem to always assume you know what makes a prospect and what doesn’t make a prospect based on your oft times silly computer numbers that often have no relevance to actual performance on the field. Honestly, I hope Franco doesn’t read this site because if he did his head would spin so much he would believe he was in a high school math class, not on a professional baseball diamond.

    If James continues to play like he has, of course he is a prospect! You act as if 24 years of age makes him eligible for senior citizens benefits, for goodness sakes. Look, there are 5 tools in baseball and James has 3 of them in spades…he can run, he can catch and he can throw. That alone makes him a center field candidate in my book, if he can hit. And right now, he is hitting, and is only in A ball because the Phils probably don’t want to rush him back after his injury and have probably decided [and rightfully so!] that a little success doesn’t harm anyone’s confidence.

    Tell me a center fielder in the organization with a better glove than James. You can’t because there aren’t any. Gillies may be 1A but he is now playing LF so until he goes back to playing CF, then its James in my book. And there is nothing that says Jordan won’t give him the opportunity to start the 2014 season at LV, he has demonstrated an impressive desire to push prospects.

    And one more thing for those who may have only joined the site a year or so ago and suspect that if its written here, it must be gospel. James was a pitcher in HS and was even drafted with the possibility of pitching, his arm is that powerful. He has not been playing the outfield that long and has been getting by on raw skills, something that many players are never able to overcome and which ends up causing them to fail. My suspicion is that this injury to James, and it was supposed to keep him out all year by the way, might well have been a wake up call for him.

    He seems far more dedicated and is playing with the talent that we all hoped for as recently as two years ago, which I might add, was the time when more than a few on this site were fearful he would be the first player drafted by Ed Wade’s Astros in the Rule 5 draft.

    Yes, he is a prospect and will be until he proves he can’t play. He will determine that, and not any self styled experts on a message board.

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    1. That’s one heckuva a rant…

      Look, I’m pretty sure that most on here know he is a convervted pitcher. I think most on here would also agree that he is, and has been, the best defensive OF in the system. He has good speed, but in the dozen or so times I’ve seen him play, he never looked like a burner. Without doing more with the bat, that portfolio simply isn’t enough to be a major leaguer IMO and therefore I personally don’t consider him much a propsect. Could that opinion change with improved play at the higher levels? Of course.

      If you disagree, that’s fine, but this is a website where we discuss prospects and our opinions of them. Those opinions may differ significantly, and often do, which makes for an interesting and informative website. The little shots in your post are unnecessary.

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      1. This is a good point. I think we get a little over zealous with our opinions. And just because opinions may become the consensus, they are still just opinions. There are so many factors that go on behind the scenes in the minors that we don’t know about, all we have are numbers, box scores, and first hand opinions. Lets work on respecting each others opinions and keep this a great site for minor league phillies content.

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    2. The plus arm, defense, and speed combination was held by the last resident of the CLW CF job, Kyrell Hudson and he is currently out of baseball working on playing football (as good as James is in the OF, Hudson was a better defender),

      Taking nothing away from James as a person, despite all of the physical promise he does not bring much ion the way of secondary skills. He does not steal bases well, he does not walk, and he does not hit for power. At best that is a 5th OF. Most of his high rankings in the past were the promise that the power would come, that he would use his speed, and that he would mature as a hitter. But it didn’t happen due to injuries an lack of growth on the field. I would like to see him stick around the organization because he is a great guy and mentor, but you are talking huge amounts of growth to even think about him getting a cup of coffee.

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    3. Oh, so what you’re saying is that no one on this site but you is qualified to determine who is and is not a prospect? Because that is exactly what you’re doing.

      His defense is not in question. But he has no hope of being a major league player if he can’t hit. He has not pitched since 2007. Are you telling me almost 5 years (not counting his lost 2008) is not enough to learn how to hit? 5 years and he can’t advance beyond AA? And this is giving him the benefit of 2 years of lost development time, which we cannot do with prospects because lost time is still time. I MIGHT give him the benefit of the doubt if defense was his struggle. But he’s been hitting baseballs almost all of his life. If he hasn’t put it together yet, he has very little hope of doing so.

      And if you want to argue that he’s put it together this season, well then you’re deluding yourself. In his limited time this year in A+, he is arguably doing WORSE than he did two years ago at the same level. The slash looks marginally better, but only marginally (2011: .269/.328/.365, 2013: .297/.331/.369). But almost all of his peripherals point to worse performance. His K% is down 4.1% (from 20.5% to 16.4%), which is good. But his BB% is also down (from 7% to 4.1%) and his ISO is down (from .096 to .072). You know what’s changed? His BABIP. It’s up 21 points from his last stint in A+.

      If this was someone that was age appropriate or slightly above, yeah I could see being excited about this performance. But a 4.1% BB% is not acceptable. A 16.4% K% is barely acceptable, although he doesn’t really hit for enough power for me to overlook it. He steals bases at a decent clip, but not nearly successfully enough to consider it an asset. Basically he is a negative at EVERY aspect of offense at the major league level. And not just a little bit. We’re talking Michael Martinez bad. Maybe even worse. Are you suggesting that is acceptable for a major league player? Even one with a great defensive profile? He is ONLY good for defensive replacement. Not hitting. Not pinch running. Are you going to use a 25 man spot for a person who should play, at most, one HALF of an inning.

      Now as I said in my previous post, he may be able to put it together. But at 24 years old, 5 years into his development (really 7 years, but hey, I’ll be nice), it is not reasonable to expect that to happen. So if his current state is not good enough, and we shouldn’t expect him to become better, what makes him a prospect? Nothing. He is not a prospect. Maybe he plays himself into that status in the future, but it is unlikely. He might be the anti-Ruf (playing himself into prospect status with great defense, and somehow boosting his offense) in the future, but Ruf was not a prospect until very recently, if he was even really considered one then.

      And by the way, the fact that he WASN’T taken in the Rule V is just more proof that he isn’t a prospect. If he was, someone would have taken a flier on him. Even if they ended up offering him back at the end of ST, they would have taken a shot on a legitimate prospect.

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    4. “That alone makes him a center field candidate in my book, if he can hit.”

      I get that James is a good defensive player, but the “if” in this statement is the exact reason why most of the “self-styled experts” on this site view him as a borderline prospect at best. (Incidentally, I wonder what the salaried experts would say about James at this point in comparison). He’s in his fifth season since switching positions, and he’s got a career OPS of .685 to show for it. One would expect a legit prospect to make more improvements with the stick than he has.

      As an aside: Think about the irony of being dismissive of people who post on a message board — as you post on a message board.

      Another aside: It’s not “silly computer numbers” that are the basis of the criticisms re: Franco. It is the eyeballs of actual scouts. For what it’s worth.

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      1. Right, most numbers like Franco, except for walk rate, which is at its most extreme, a calculator number, not a computer number.

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      2. It’s also bizarre to me – I’ve tried to correct the impression, to no avail – that the conventional wisdom adhered to by most people on this site – top 50 prospect in baseball, top 3 in the system, potential star, but a guy who still needs to work on a couple of things – is regarded as “negative.” It’s okay of course to have an even more favorable opinion of him, but quite another to regard anything less than that as somehow “negative.”

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        1. I don’t think it is most people on this site. There is a very loud (often wrong) minority that does not understand that.

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          1. Yeah, I meant that most people hold the conventional view – not that most people think that it is negative. Should have worded it better.

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        2. There is plenty of disagreement around here on Franco. There are people who think he’s clearly our best prospect, and others who think he’s our 3rd best prospect (or worse).

          There are also many who would disagree that he’s top-50 in baseball. I’m not sure Matt would agree with that.

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          1. Right now on the spot yeah I can comfortably say he is Top 3 in the system and would be somewhere in the 40-60 range if I wrote a Top 100 (and really is the difference between 40 and 60 that gigantic?)

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          2. Yeah, what Matt said. Very little real disagreement among most of us on this site. Also is there really a big gap between 1 and 3? If people put Biddle or Crawford ahead of him, it’s not because they don’t like Franco. One can dispute such rankings, but it’s not just or mainly about Franco.

            The only TRULY disparaging things said about Franco on this site were from one of the anons.

            Really this reminds my a bit of Asche last year, albeit on a somewhat higher level. I got into a long running debate with an Asche booster, which was ironic, because I LIKE Asche a lot, liked him then. But having the temerity to opine that no, Asche wasn’t going to be a .320 hitter in the majors got me branded as some sort of Asche hater.

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            1. Well sure, I wouldn’t say there are HUGE differences of opinion among most people, but #60 in baseball vs. #30 in baseball is significant, and a bigger difference than much of what we discuss around here.

              Franco is our most exciting prospect right now, and it’s interesting to discuss exactly how likely he is to become a star.

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    5. Jose Feliciano couldn’t have said it better !!! nor the Mamas and Papas…I agree…way too many numbers and negativity….we are still talking about human beings here.

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      1. No one is calling him the devil. The fact of the matter is that these young men are being paid to play baseball. That is more than most of the world can say. But that doesn’t mean they’re good enough to play at the highest level. Only a small fraction of minor league players are good enough. Saying one person in particular is not good enough to do so just means that something or some things did not break correctly for them. It’s not a reflection of them as a person, it’s just how it is.

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        1. Completely agree, organizations need players like James in them as well. When Crawford first arrived in the GCL, James worked with him to help get him to adjust and Crawford cited him as a big influence on what made him so successful to start his career

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    6. There is a lot to disagree with here, apart from the overly-aggressive challenging tone. First, 24 is indeed very, very old for A ball. Especially for a guy who was in AA and didn’t hit well there. Beyond that, your whole justification for he is hitting well, is that massively deceptive stat — batting average. Look a little closer and the guy has an OPS of .700. An OF with an OPS of .700 at CLW at age 24 is absolutely nothing to get excited about. Yes, he is recovering from injury, but his OPS at Reading last season was .651 and he struck out almost every 3 ABs as a not-young-for-AA 23-year old. Yes, he gets some allowance for starting his pro career as pitcher, but the truth is he has never hit well enough, never walked enough, never shown enough power. The difference between his .245 BA last season and his .300 this year in SSS is largely a swing in BABIP, although he is striking out a bit less at the lower level. We can theorize why the Phillies have him at Clearwater, but we shouldn’t pretend that he is actually hitting well there. He’s a year older and a level lower than he was last season, so I don’t really see the improvement that you see with the bat from last year to this year.

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  5. How many CF do the Phils have in their entire organization batting .297 with his glove aside from Ceasar Hernandez who is a converted 2B? . Don’t care if James is 24, Ruff is just getting his shot and he is 27 ?

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    1. Ruf can actually, you know, hit. I don’t care how good of a defender anyone is, if they can’t hit a lick in the minors they won’t amount to much in the majors. James isn’t doing any better at Clearwater then he did two years ago when he was 22. what does that tell you?

      2011: 7.0 % BB 20.5 % K .096 ISO .320 wOBA 94 wRC+
      2013 4.1 % BB 16.4 % K .072 ISO .323 wOBA 99 wRC+

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    1. He’ll be up in September, and hopefully if he’s healed from his wrist injury, he’ll play a lot of CF then.

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  7. Sorry for what sounded like a rant, but it does bother me that we so often times dismiss a player for reasons that I simply do not think are necessarily accurate. Ruf was widely considered a non-prospect, and that was proven incorrect. Same with Grilli in Pittsburgh and I could source many others, we all know who they are.

    Look, I am no member of the Jiwan James phan club, and really have no skin in the game other than what all of us want…for these guys to become the best Phillies that they can be. But I will close with this and have no more to say about it. Keep an eye on James going forward. A couple of years ago many were gushing about his skills and he is now playing with those skills that were being gushed over then.

    I believe he is a prospect and would not be surprised at all if by 2015 is playing CF in Philadelphia. Just sayin…

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    1. When people say “X is not a prospect”, they don’t mean there is ZERO chance X makes the majors. They mean that the player’s chances fall below a certain threshold, so that they’re no longer worth paying much attention to until something substantially changes.

      We all have limited time/energy to follow the minors, and we want to know who we should be keeping track of. Those are the “prospects”. The remaining guys have SOME chance, but they have to take a step forward to make it onto the radar.

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    2. Good for you. I’ve always felt everyone of these guys needs a champion in their corner. The minor leagues is a long hard road. I do happen to agree with MDS I don’t think he has much of chance to make it.

      I could be wrong!

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    3. As a general matter, the fact that once in a great while a (perceived) non-prospect breaks through is not a basis for not being dismissive of a guy who has. at best, a one in ten thousand shot. Sometimes the one in ten thousand shot comes in; we still don’t consider ourselves millionaires just because we just bought a lottery ticket.

      In terms of specifics, Grilli: (a) at 24, Grilli wasn’t a player with mediocre performance in A+. He performed well at 4 minor league levels including AAA, and had his SECOND taste of the major leagues, granted he was not very successful. At a younger age, he was a top 50 prospect in baseball; (b) pitchers are somewhat different than position players in this respect; to a much greater extent than position players, sometimes the light just goes on at some point, and often at a later age than for position players;

      Ruf is that one in ten thousand player, but even he at the age of 24 had something of a breakout season in A+. And his success has been virtually unprecedented. I think it is literally the case that there is NO POSITION PLAYER in modern baseball history who reached AA at as advanced an age as he did and who then went on to a major league career.

      So that leaves “source many others, we all know who they are.” Except no, there aren’t “many” others. There are some. They are rare.* As long as I have been following the Phillies, there’s one really – Ruf. And even there, it’s far from certain that Ruf will have much of a career. (Grilli really does not count, he’s a top pitching prospect that just took a long time to find his way, and had a brief stop in the Phillies’ system along the way). Far, far, far more common are the Mitchells, the Rizzottis, and so on – I really could make a long list – players who were dismissed by most, touted by some, and who went on to obscurity.

      Now, step back: on the whole, even the people on this site who are regarded as pessimists are IMO probably overly positive about the typical Phillies’ prospect. I include myself, it’s the perils of being a fan. I don’t THINK you’re really saying that James is LIKELY to have a major league career. The contrary evidence is overwhelming. I THINK what you’re saying is something akin to “anything can happen.” By that standard, EVERYBODY in the system is a prospect. And that’s just not how we talk about prospects. Not just on this site, but wherever prospects are discussed. The term just doesn’t cover the kids with one shot in ten thousand.

      *I rather suspect that, if you could control for position/age level, and performance, that you might not find ANY good major league comp for James, i.e., for a player who made the majors despite his age/level/performance/position.

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  8. Now that we got James out of the way, any opinions on the pulse Harold Martinez is showing? 5.6% BB Rate, 23.3% K Rate, .099 ISO, but a BABIP fueled BA that’s been slowing rising.

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    1. His April and May were truly abysmal, with a K rate around 30% and a walk rate around 2%. So let’s put them aside. His K and BB rates have both been trending up since June, about the same rate, so I think that’s a net positive. His line drive rate is up this month, which is also nice. But until and unless his ISO gets better, I’m not going to get very excited about him. I think he’s done enough to be curious to see if he can handle Reading next year, but I won’t get my hopes up.

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      2. I loved me some HMART coming out of Miami but the big question mark on him then was bat speed and it never did develop. I know longer see him as a prospect.

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    1. Wow, another great signing after the Wells signing. How many sub-Mendoza hitters can this team put on the field at once? Whats the record, are we getting closer? Understand Mario Mendoza may throw out the first ball at Fan Appreciation day next month. So Rube wants to make him feel comfortable and relaxed with a lineup of mini-Marios.

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      1. Well, he did make the Washington roster and if Revere hadn’t been injured, we never would have considered him. Then again, if the CFs the Phillies were trying to develop (Gillies, James, Collier, Hudson farther down the chain) had been at all successful in their development as hitters and baserunners, we likely wouldn’t have considered Revere either. Although Gillies has a bit more power than the others, this is basically a type of OF the Phillies have lusted after for years after coming down with a really bad case of Juan Pierre love. It

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  10. Ruben amaro is like a guy in a canoe in the middle of the ocean, and the canoe has a hole in it, and he is bailing trying to make shore before he sinks, ruben amaro you cant make the shore, do the right thing quit,

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