Box Score Recap – 8/11/2013

Box Score Recap

Maikel Franco 3-5 with a grand slam. Kelly Dugan also went deep for Reading as the Fightin’s pounded out 16 hits. Cesar Hernandez took a pinch hitting opportunity – his first action in what feels like about 2 weeks. Clearwater took the lead in the top of the 11th on a Harold Martinez RBI single, but Ken Giles gave up two runs in the bottom of that inning to let that one slip away. Very strong outing from Miguel Nunez – allowed one hit, struck out seven, walked two in five scoreless innings. Andrew Pullin went 3-5 with his second HR of the year – He’s OPSing .744, which is a bit less than I’d hoped for out of his bat, but passable.

Here’s the affiliate Scoreboard from MiLB.

http://www.milb.com/scoreboard/index.jsp?sid=milb&org=143&ymd=20130811

8-11-13 boxscores

126 thoughts on “Box Score Recap – 8/11/2013”

  1. Look at the numbers from the bullpen for the entire minor league system. With one exception it was an outstanding day. Wish the varsity could say the same.

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    1. Thanks for this … I was wondering whether we would see Watson again. Any word on Roman Quinn?

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      1. Report on Philly.com the other day saying he’s progressing and they are still hopeful he’ll be back this season.

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        1. Thanks! I’m interested to see whether the SS experiment continues. He’s stated in the past he’s more comfortable playing CF, and it’s valid to wonder if he might hit more consistently without the defensive pressure in his mind (see: Asche, Cody).

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          1. The problem with CF is ABs, you might be able to find Clearwater CF ABs if they hold Tocci back, but there are so many more CF prospects than SS prospects in the system. He just has too much value at SS to move him off before you have to.

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            1. I agree that he shouldn’t be rushed off SS (although I think Tocci repeating should be a foregone conclusion at this point). I just think they’ve thrown a lot at Quinn since he joined the organization, and wonder if he’s ever really been comfortable. Maybe he puts it together and starts to play well at SS next season, and that helps his confidence. Given his performance there the past two seasons, however, I’m beginning to wonder if the move is inevitable.

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            2. I agree. Tocci really wore down there at end. No way his is ready for Clearwater. Needs pretty extensive core exercise program this offseason.

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            3. Looks like Cesar’s not the only MI being converted to CF or expanding his utility belt to include it. I see Albert Cartwright is playing CF in Reading.

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            4. ABs for CF shouldn’t be a factor. Tocci us a 17 year old. If they really wanted to move Quinn to CF, Tocci wouldn’t effect that. And there are no other “prospects” in the organization that could push Quinn off any position, other than Crawford.

              Regardless, there is no reason to move Quinn off SS at this time, as you mentioned.

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            5. the only reason being…he stopped hitting. Confidence seems to be main determinant to players overall chances at big leagues and its frail at best in early goings. I don’ think “leaving him there” is as safe as your making it out to be…almost as if you have green pass for while with him at SS. Conversely, I think you risk losing the player all together by not recognizing the player is regressing across the board.

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            6. Quinn did not regress across the board, is BB% is exactly the same as last year, K% up a little, and he’s shown more HR power this year. The real difference is last year he had a .357 BABIP and this year it is .297.

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  3. 50 fewer plate appearances, but … Kelly Dugan now has a higher ISO in AA than Maikel Franco. (.203 vs. .206).

    Sebastian Valle has 4 BBs in his past three games. He’s increased his BB rate to 5.2 percent … its highest since Lakewood in 2010. And one more fun fact: That BB rate is more than two points higher than Franco’s since he arrived in Reading.

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      1. The curveball is a weapon, the best report I have heard on the other secondary stuff is that he throws it for strikes but they aren’t really developed pitches that you could project as major league usable right now.

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      1. Right now only Morgan and Biddle (Martin if he’s eligible for the list) are pitchers that are definitely ahead of him. Watson is maybe still ahead and I think you could argue for him to be above Gueller.

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      2. For me I still have major concerns (I ranked him well into the 20s recently). The first is the lack of other secondary pitches, fastball-curveball is fine but you need that third pitch if the first two are not overpowering. The second is his size, I think short pitchers are unfairly biased against as a whole, but it is true that they don’t get a lot of downward plane which can lead to high HR rates, and he isn’t just short, he is a slightly built person as a whole, which concerns me on whether the can really stand up to a full season’s workload.

        Once you have those concerns it is difficult to put higher than a #4 ceiling on him as a starter and he lacks the workhorse frame of a Pettibone or Rosin or even a Tyler Cloyd. Still a great story and find but he needs to prove more to be ranked much higher (mostly in the durability and sustainability).

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        1. Right. I don’t want to be pessimistic but feel like we’ve been here before. Still, the velocity reports are encouraging. Perhaps we starts with Reading next year and we could learn a hell of a lot after 10 starts or so there

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        2. I find it hard to believe that a guy who is averaging close to 10K per game has all average offerings. Control doesn’t equate to swing and miss stuff. Love to know what his percentage of swinging vs called strikes are.

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          1. You missed the part about the plus curveball. Excellent control + good breaking and the ability to flash some other pitches that move can get you that many swings and misses.

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            1. So if the curveball is a “plus” pitch, and a fastball that continues to tick higher, along with great control and command doesn’t he have a higher ceiling than 4? Sounds like you are selling a bit short on his potential.

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            2. I don’t think the fastball will tick higher. Lets compare him to Pettibone, 50-55 FB touching 60, 50 Slider, 60 Changeup, big frame, good command/control. No one is going to argue that Pettibone is more than a #4 starter. That is with Gonzalez finding another average pitch and having the ability to throw 160+ IPs a year (something Pettibone has done twice). It is nice to dream on big ceilings but in the #4 starters make up the majority of rotations (it is not just the 4th guy in the rotation) and it is a good outcome.

              Frankly a large portion of the industry thinks that both Jesse Biddle and Adam Morgan are #4 starters if that gives you a clue on what that profile entails.

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            3. Except for a short stint in the NYPL Pettibone never had anything close to the K rate that Severino has shown (or control for that matter).

              Biddle is a projected #3 starter. That doesn’t mean his celing is #3.

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          2. Who remembers this guy: http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=stephe004joh?

            A side-arming righty with a low 80s fastball, and slurvy breaking stuff, he was an early test case for the SABER v. Scouting debate and a great example why both sides of talent eval plays a role.

            Precocious command and control at the the younger levels, particularly when it comes with change of speeds and perhaps some funk to the delivery, can certainly lead to high K rates, despite stuff that is not sustainable at the upper levels.

            This is not a comment on Gonzalez, as much as it is, that prospects with little pedigree of note should be taken with a big grain of salt, even despite performance.

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        3. It’s still pretty early IMO to dismiss his secondary offerings, he’s only got 212 innings of professional experience, almost all as a reliever where he didn’t need to develop secondary pitches to the same degree as he will need to as a starter.

          What he’s shown at this point is as follows:

          Fastball – 50 (This is still TBD, could be anywhere between a 40 and a 60 depending on movement and velocity but sitting 92 could be enough to be a as high as a #2 SP, probably not more)
          Curve – 60-70 (*this is an assumption based partially on his results and scouting report)
          Other Secondary Offerings – 30? (we’ll say this just based on preliminary scouting)
          Command: 60-75 (Hard to say exactly, I presume he’ll pitch 130 innings or so in AA next year as a 21 year old, I expect there to be significantly better and more scouting reports)
          Control: 60-75 (Hard to say exactly, see above for explanation)

          As to his “slightness”… I’m quite a bit less enamored with “athletic looking” pitchers as opposed to hitters. I understand your position that they’re less likely to break down, but I’m not sure that’s nearly as important as smoothness of delivery, and to a certain extent, random luck. That said, until he shows durability, health, or HR/FB issues, I’m not going to dock him a single point for not being tall enough or bulky enough in comparison to other pitchers.

          What I see is a player who’s best case is a #2 pitcher, with a high flame-out rate. He could easily become one of those AAAA pitchers without enough stuff to hack it in the majors. But he’s young, clearly very advanced for his age, especially in command and control, and has plenty of time to pick up those secondary offerings.

          He’s a prospect who this time next year, could be in our top 5 or not in the top 30 at all.

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          1. I wasn’t writing off his career so much as saying there is a lot not there to be annopinting him a top prospect, that you are hoping will develop. Without another secondary pitch getting to 50 it is hard to see a starting pitcher. As for the slightness, it isn’t so much they breakdown as much as you are worried that suddenly a 50 fastball is looking more like a 40 fastball in August because he just does not have the muscle he did at the beginning of the season. Without the fastball getting to plus there is no way he is a #2 starter by any stretch of the imagination (unless of course your scale does not match the scouting scale everyone else is using)

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      3. Tough one. That report really jumps him up in my opinion. As far as pitchers, Biddle and Morgan are still above him, and if Martin is eligible, he probably still ranks higher because of proximity. Other than that, I’d put him ahead of Watson (great numbers, higher level, now apparently good stuff). A top 3 of Franco, Biddle, Crawford in some order. Maybe I put Dugan, Joseph, Martin, and Quinn in the next group. So Gonzalez at 8?

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    3. An honest question: How common is it for an 18-year-old throwing in the mid-80s to be in the low-to-mid-90s two years later? Is this coaching? Strength training? It sounds improbable to me.

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      1. If this was a kid from California (or really anywhere in the US) I would have major doubts… but… a prospect who probably got very little quality coaching coming from a 3rd world country… (DR)… while still improbable, not as “impossible”…

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      2. Not improbable at all. Especially for someone who has been on a major league pitching schedule. We often see dips in HS velocity because there is some delivery cleanup to gain control as well as they are working on shorter rest and often longer pitch counts. As for someone like Severino it could be strength, it could also be mechanical tweaks that allow him to leverage his body and delivery into more strength. Either way it is not unheard of and certainly not concerning right now.

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      3. This is a whole different example but I have a kid I work with (strength and conditioning coach who works specifically with baseball players) who is 6’5 205lbs now. As a soph in HS he was 6’5 175 and sat in the 82-84mph range. Over the past 2 years his fastball has moved up to 88-89mph with the added strength and body weight. He was seen as a potential late round pick but ended up going undrafted and is playing D1 baseball this year on a scholarship. Going through the recruiting process with him and speaking with professional scouts, almost all of them have told me that he has a 90 plus mph arm. Most of them said coaching will be what unlocks the extra mphs and others have said its going to be gaining more strength in his legs. I feel it’s going to be a combo of both . . . So with that drawn out story (haha) and being around baseball players I’ve come to see that it’s a,combo of both coaching and strength training.

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      4. Thanks all for the replies. Definitely looking forward to seeing if Severino can maintain this new velocity.

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      1. Wrong Gonzalez. Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez is the ~26-year-old Cuban defector who we reportedly had signed for around $60M until the holdup happened. Severino Gonzalez has been in the system and is currently pitching at Clearwater.

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  5. Dugan might have a big year if he repeats Reading. I hope he does. He could always get promoted in the 2nd half. Dare I say the org may have two potential outfield prospects that could arrive in 2015 in Dugan and Perkins?

    Question re Crawford. I’ve stated before that he slots at no. 3 in my Top 10, not that others haven’t said likewise. A week or so ago I had doubts that he could leap over Biddle and/or Franco. Now I’m doubting if I should still have those doubts. If you start with the best possible outcome for a player of Crawford’s profile, then consider the pedigree, and then add his first 140 pro PAs which clearly illustrate a player performing above his equally aged and even older competition, you have to consider the possibility for a true star performer remaining intact, small sample size notwithstanding. Biddle and Franco can both develop into all-stars though probably no more than the occasional ones rather than the perennial variety. I don’t think I could make much of an argument for anyone slotting Crawford at no. 1

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    1. I still have Franco as #1, but think Crawford is #2. Biddle has not had that good a season and has shown signs lately that something is not right with him. Big shakeup in top 10 this year. Morgan still looks hurt and just isn’t pitching well. Joseph has a lost year and may no longer be able to catch. Asche and Pettibone will no longer be eligible. Dugan on fire. Pujols and Tromp starting to step forward.

      1. Franco
      2. Crawford
      3. Quinn
      4. Dugan
      5. Biddle
      6. Pujols
      7. Cozens
      8. Tocci
      9. Tromp
      10. Zach Green

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    2. Dugan should be ready for AAA out of ST and there is zero reason to hold him back, with zilch blocking his path and the big Phillies needing another OF. Dugan has had a very solid year and has no glaring weakness in his game.

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      1. Dugan has no weankness except a horrible 7/1 K/BB%. Along with pedestrian offensive numbers acroos the board in everything except ISO.

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        1. That is his AA ratio, but he was much better in that regard at CLW and is a guy who has walked at a quite good rate during his career. Even with that ratio in AA, he has Ked less than a quarter of the time, so it isn’t like he has a horrendous contact problem.

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  6. Adding to today’s set of links there is a glowing Jose Pujols report in here: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=21504

    The short version is, huge raw power, insane bat speed, plenty of physical projection. Early in the year he had zero approach with an extreme uppercut, and he couldn’t make good contact with anything. Almost overnight the Phillies had fixed up the swing, the uppercut was gone, replaced with a smooth level swing path that was turning pop ups into hard line drives and monster HRs. The approach is still a problem right now but there is a really high ceiling player there

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    1. Plenty of projection in his size. There’s a fair amount of big boys on the GC Phils but Pujols definitely stands out. There was a game early last week, week before, against the Tigers. Their starter had lost the plate a bit walking two in a row. Pujols comes up and swings at a 1-0 fastball up and away. For whatever reason, I felt a deep burning in the pit of my stomach when he swung at a ball out of the zone in that situation. He then proceeded to take three consecutive balls, two of which were very near the zone, and he drew the BB. Save for one bad swing, he ended up being a good, and patient AB.

      10% BB rate on the year but nearer to 13% in the past 10

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      1. Thanks for the report, that sounds like a kid learning to turn training into instinct. It will be interesting to see how he finishes out the year. It definitely sounds like he takes well to instruction, and it is good to see him really working on improvements.

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        1. The recent LA crop has been a large source of interest this year. Tocci, Pujols, Grullon. They all seem like solid guys with good potential

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      2. it has been said already but he is way too young to worry about approach because it is a skill that can be learned. Approach is one of the things that before a player is 20 i will not knock them significantly for a bad approach, from 20-22ish we should see more of a representation of what they are like and after 22 there is fine tuning until they are in the bigs and there is a whole other round of modifications to their approach that they go through. It is nice to see kids with an advanced approach like JPC as they are the exception and not the rule.

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  7. FYI — Baseball Prospectus’ Prospect of the Day for 8/11/13 mentions Miguel Nunez. stating that “… his fastball works in the low 90s, and he adds a developing curveball and changeup.” They also go on to say that he “… gets good plane on his pitches…” and that he has a shot to develop into something, but it is a long way away.

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      1. and I dont mean it in classically sense because his left arm is flexed but he is locking it thru the swing. Maybe better word for it is Tweener ABS..”TABS”?

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    2. I was at Reading game yesterday. Both Sano and Franco looked good with the bat. Sano did not look at all good in the field. Franco fielded quite well.

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  9. It’s funny how quickly things change in a farm system. Up to about a year and a half ago, the strength of the organization was deemed to be pitching all the way, and it probably was. Now, the tables have turned and virtually all of the good prospects are hitters and the pitchers we do have appear to possess a limited ceiling. The pitching is in a bad way right now, I’d rate it as a D or a D+ on the letter grading scale and contributing to that grade is what appears to be very questionable instruction. Players repeating a level who get worse, not better. That’s a HUGE issue.

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    1. And don’t get me wrong, I love what we’ve done with the hitters, but you need some balance and especially a couple of really high ceiling arms. Our very best arms profile as a #2 or a #3 if all goes well.

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      1. And, yes, I get that assets are assets, but go ahead and try to pry a potential ace from another team – it’s not easy to do. Those are the guys you keep.

        Speaking of guys you keep, JP Crawford is doing it again today. Unless I’m missing something, he should start next year in Lakewood.

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        2. Catch….the Phillies keep losing they will ‘beat’ out Houston for number one honors and then Carlos Rodon will be the ace you desire.

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      2. It hurts that Watson and Gueller have started so slowly. I suspect they’ll load up on pitching next year

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          1. Which he may repeat next year. The injury has been a hindrance obviously and his performance pre-injury wasn’t exactly stellar. What I mean is both haven’t come out and wow’d like expected.

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            1. I’m pretty content with Watson’s performance considering the limitations the organization put on him (limiting the use of his best secondary pitch and best fastball). The injury knocks him back a little though.

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    2. Saw the Reading game last night. Hollands was like all the Phillies minor leaguers needed and average of 20 pitches per inning. Struck out 7 and 1 walk but still have no one who makes a quality start with minimum pitches in the minors. Makes me think it must be coaching. Everyone afraid to throw strikes. If count is 0-2 you know it will end up 2-2 or 3-2.

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    3. I’d go furthur and say the Phillies as an organization are historically bad at developing blue chip major league pitchers (I’m not talking about guys who have a good year, or two than disappear). Just look back over the past 50 years or so and just about any outstanding pitcher (with the exception of Cole Hamels) they’ve had has come up through someone else’s system.

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          3. Ruthven, Christiansen, Carman imo opinion are ‘ok’- how do they guys compare to Clemens, Carlton, Schilling, Johnson, Seaver, Maddux, Smoltz, Martinez, Rivera…Halladay, Hershieser, Hernandez…Palmer, Guidry, Pettite…Sabathia, Verlander, Eckersley….how long before you get to a phillie

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            1. Clemens-Sox…..Carlton-Cards………Schilling-Os or Stros???……….Johnson-Montreal
              Seaver-Mets……..Maddux-Cubs……….Smoltz-Tigers……..Martinez-LAD……Rivera-NYY
              Halladay-Tor…….Hershiser-LAD……..Hernandez-Seattle………..Palmer-Os
              Guidry-NYY…….Petite-NYY……….Sabathia-Clev……..Verlander-Tigers…Eckersley-?
              …….Yankees seem to be the winner in developing aces.

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        3. Aside from Madson I can’t recall another good closer we developed in the last 30 yrs. This year all the relievers AAA to A are god awful.

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          1. and he was a starter who became a reliever in the pros. Ethan Martin may follow that road.

            Relievers are usually failed starters. The further a guy progresses before becoming a reliever is often an indication of how good of a pitcher they actually are.

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        1. I look at the Mets…50 years –Seaver, Koosman, Gentry, Ron Darling, Doc Gooden, Nolan Ryan, El Sid, David Coney Island, Jon Matlack and the current crew….now thats development.

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          1. I hate to tell you but, Darling, Fernandez, and Cone were not products of the Mets farm system, they were nearly graduated players acquired in trades. That said, certainly, the Mets have developed their share of superb pitchers. But the Mets are horrible – just stinking rotten – at developing hitters. There’s David Wright (the crowned prince of Mets hitters), Darryl Strawberry (a can’t miss first pick of the draft), Ken Singleton (who was quickly traded away) and then, essentially selected ok guys like Cleon Jones, Todd Hundley, Hubie Brooks and Mookie Wilson. Since 2000, the Phillies have developed and drafted more high level hitters than the Mets have since 1962.

            Of course, if you want to get really depressed, look at the Cardinals or Braves – they both have more truly high level pitchers either in the minors or recently graduated into the majors than the Phillies have developed in the last 40 years and, I hate to tell you this, but that’s not an exaggeration and, while they are at, they’ve developed great position players too. That’s why those teams keep winning without rebuilding. They are DESIGNED to keep winning without a rebuild.

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            1. I think the Braves development of pitchers is over-rated. Not the Cardinals however.
              When it comes to the Braves…Atlanta — not Milwaukee or Boston—I see Glavine and many average after him. Maybe Avery, Chen, Millwood, Hanson could have been something but….am I missing anyone one?

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        2. Yep. They managed to trade him. I’ll give Allentown1 Chris Short (talkin’ last 50 years). Wise? meh

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    4. Except… we got next to nothing from that pitching strength. There seems to be a problem with developing pitchers on the farm, going back to messing up Floyd. Hamels is the exception, but he was so headstrong, I doubt he would allow himself to be messed up. We’ve gotten Kendrick and the now injured Pettibone, the injured Happ, the injured Madson, the injured Worley. We are going through pitching prospects in a way that rivals what the Reds used to accomplish. All the promising relievers, turned to dust. There is something wrong on the farm.

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      1. Who did we have who had really top-level talent?

        If anything, our system has done a good job turning unheralded guys into marginal starters.

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        1. Whose fault is that. We seem incapable of scouting Pitchers.Even when we find diamonds in the rough Grilli, Vogelsong we can’t recognize them.

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  10. Is there any chance we see either Asche or Franco switched to the OF or SS in Winter Ball this offseason?

    I am curious what the Phillies will do with the 3B situation and if they will consider moving one to allow both room to develop.

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    1. I really doubt it David. Asche will be the Phils 3b and Franco will be at LV playing the same position. Winter ball ‘next’ season may be a different story

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    2. wont be Franco. Theyve already fooled around with Asche. Ya I could see him playing some LF in Venezuela. But I think Asche is the 2014 3b and Franco would have to light up spring training to change that.

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      1. Though Utley has second for sure now in 2014 and beyound, things do have a way of working themselves out for both Asche and Franco..

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    1. He’s not going to be a successful major leaguer with a 28.9 percent K rate. That said, yes, that first Pence trade was a shame.

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      1. Second Pence trade is also a shame.
        “Pence Trade” is going to be a 4 letter word.

        Schierholtz gone for nothing and going well elsewhere.
        Joseph is now a poor hitting 1B due to concussions.
        Rosin has upside of barely a major leaguer.

        Singleton is a very good hitter.
        Cosart turned out better than May and Colvin thus far. May be a stud.
        Zeid was a possible fringe reliever.
        Sanatana has to be the worst “PTBNL” ever. If it was even someone like Castro who has a possible MLB 5th OF profile who Phillies were not going to protect but a young huge power hitter was ridiculous. I did not mind the trade too much until Santana. (Figured Cosart was a reliever and though I really liked Singleton, he seemed destined to 1B only and might not have a big power profile.)

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        1. While I am replying to your post, the Shierholtz release continues to be a real head scratcher. The Phils traded for him, barely got to see him and despite the fact that he was a cheap option decided to keep Nix and Mayberry and pick up D. Young. What the hell was the thinking at the time? It boils down to the fact that Amaro was trying to look smart by picking up D. Young. They have now outright released Nix and D. Young. Hands up if you would rather have Shierholtz! One raised here. Where is the player evaluation? This is a disaster and the same crew of mish mash will be back next year.

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        2. Because bowa and giles had a fight., and dallas green was the new gm of cubs, and took sandberg, because he knew talent and giles is a idiot. dejesus wasnt a good enough player to trade to a good prospect and bowa, but giles the moron did it, and is still a moron in the background of this group of owenersr

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  12. To follow up on my earlier post about the minor league bullpen yesterday.
    IP 21.0 H 10 R 5 ER 3 BB 13 K 15 HR 1 ERA 1.28 W 1 L 1 H 3 S 2 BS 1

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    1. It’s difficult not to be excited at this point. He started hot and stayed hot, and his slash actually improved with each month, and significantly so. Lakewood next year will give us a better idea of how good Crawford really might be. As of right now though, very encouraging

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    1. He’s repeating the GCL as a 19-yr-old, so take his stats with a grain of salt. The org left him behind in favor of Tromp Gonzalez and Hiciano, (Cozens and Parr were probably locks as a high 2012 pick and a 2013 college draftee), so whether that speaks lowly of Rodriguez or highly of the other three, it’s hard to say, but he didn’t win the job at the next level out of camp. If he wins a spot at Lakewood next spring, I’ll be a lot more excited than I am now.

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  15. Couple of points here. First, Sandberg was not a player to be named later, he was part of the deal from the start. I still remember where I was when the deal was announced and I couldn’t believe Sandberg was part of it,though Dallas Green said later he would not have done a Bowa for DeJesus deal without Sandberg in it.

    Secondly, while I agree that the Phils have not done a great job of developing pitchers over the past 50 years, you could make a strong case that Art Mahaffey, Chris, Short, Dennis Bennett, Ray Culp, Rick Wise and Ferguson Jenkins were all solid major league hurlers. The problem is that they were all from the same era. As for not having any bullpen stalwarts, if you are a phan of the 1980 World Champs you know this statement is false. Keven Saucier, Dickie Noles and Warren Brusstar were all mainstays of that bullpen staff and Randy Lerch had his most success coming out of the pen. And yes, Dick Ruthven, Marty Bystrom, Bob Walk and Larry Christenson started 4 of the 6 World Series games, with Carlton throwing the other two.

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  16. The idea seem to have been, especially over the last 10 or so years, that drafting HS pitchers and developing them over 4 yrs or so, you’d end up with a relatively young & long-time duration staff at a cheaper price (?sic). Failing grades for many years now.

    Perhaps in the ’14 draft, when they could pick as high as #6 or #7, they should go after the best college pitcher then available. With a good college pitcher his ETA could be 3 years or less.

    Given the state of the present staff and the non-likelihood of any good ready pitching prospects of our own coming forth in ’14 (possibly Morgan excepted), the shortest time-path to the bigs is advisable. (The fade-away by Biddle is very concerning)

    It seems that they should be heavily into drafting pitching (college guys early–HS guys later) and outfielders, especially those who grip the bat with the right hand on top. Hope it plays out that way.

    P.S. Can we move a couple of our better 3rd base prospects to other positions? Zack and Encarnacion come to mind.

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    1. Why would we be in a rush to move Green and Encarnacion? Both guys would have more value at 3B than in the OF or at 1B, and both are years away from helping the major league team.

      Anyway, with Encarnacion it seems like a foregone conclusion that he’ll be moved somewhere else eventually.

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      1. Encarnacion is known to have poor lateral movement. 3b isn’t a possibility for him. 1st or hide him in LF. 3rd base is crowded with Asche and Franco (if he isn’t moved to 1st base).

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      2. And we do need a right handed hitter with power. Green fits that bill IF he can not swing at pitches out of the strike zone as well as make more contact thus significantly reducing his K rate. 3b? Crowded…see above. OF if he can learn it.

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        1. That still doesn’t mean we should move him off of 3B right now. If he can make the majors as a 3B, he’ll have some trade value. Or Asche/Franco will have trade value. Or Asche/Franco will have not succeeded as prospects and 3B will be available.

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      1. Yeah, that is the cliche. But take a look at the Phils’ draft two seasons ago: the need in the system was at 3rd base and the middle infield. Do you believe that they drafted so many infielders early because they were each the best player available at each such choice? You do not believe that concentration on need was by chance or coincidental, do you?

        It’s nice to mention cliches but in practice it is frequently not applied by teams who are looking toward system needs. The Phils example is one example. Look beyond the cliche at the real practice.

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    3. It’s always best player available in my book. If you draft for even minor league need then you are asking for reaches. Just a couple years ago we were tired of seeing them picking pitchers and outfielders when the system needed infielders. Now the system is lacking in pitching and even with all of the outfield picks few are either still considered prospects or good prospects at that. You can criticize the type of players they take (high ceiling with little to no baseball knowledge), but not really the positions if they think they are the best available at slot.

      I think most were happy this year because the club made the infield a priority, but, again, it was so infield heavy that it makes you wonder whether their talent evaluation was skewed towards that.

      Draft and sign the best young players so that you can not only, hopefully, develop them into players that will help you for a decade, but also trade them when the big club needs a young/talented/signable player that’s not available on the open market or in the farm system. Hindsight is 20/20, but what if we had those Pence pieces in the system right now…would probably make getting Stanton just a little bit easier; wouldn’t it. Red Sox would still have the inside track because of their system, but we’d at least be able to offer something to make the Marlins think.

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