Hoby Milner taking care of business, and a Manny Martinez sighting in the Clearwater bullpen. Can’t imagine that’s anything more than an inning from a guy who was in town and available to give one. And one more note there – Jose Mojica with 4 hits, raises his BA to .400. On May 2. He’s clearly outmatching the pitchers there as he repeats the league as a 24 year-old. There’s nowhere to go with him though, so he’s probably stuck there unless Duran goes down with an injury, or goes up to LV.
Here’s the affiliate Scoreboard from MiLB.
http://www.milb.com/scoreboard/index.jsp?sid=milb&org=143&ymd=20130502
Phuture Phillies 
Everyone on here talking SMACK about Milner 2 weeks ago, I told you he had a slow start and would come through. He is an EXCELLLENT pitcher. When I said that 2 weeks ago I was ripped apart. Performance speaks for itself. Congrats Hoby!! Well done-keep it up!!!
LikeLike
SSS?
LikeLike
I remember. Pre-season everyone was excited to see what he had. Threw 2-3 bad starts and fans were saying to get rid of him. He’s a young athlete with a lot of potential. Can’t wait to see how the rest of the season plays out. Saw him at Lakewood last season and in Clearwater this Winter. Reminds me of a young Cole Hamels.
LikeLike
I haven’t written off Milner through his slow start and I’m obviously very encouraged by his most recent start, but comparing him to Hamels? Which of his pitches comes even close to grading out as an easy 80?
LikeLike
Not a SSS–just wait and see :))
LikeLike
I don’t remember anyone talking smack about Milner. In fact, before the season, I remember a few people who were pretty interested to see how he’d do. He got off to a bad start but he’s pulled it together recently.
LikeLike
MattWinks says:
April 16, 2013 at 10:23 AM
Cloyd is done and Milner is a bullpen arm. Top pitchers look like top pitchers for the most part because the raw stuff is there or they flat out dominate their way with fringy stuff. Once teams figured out Cloyd it is over, Milner just doesn’t have the frame or arsenal (that just makes him a good reliever prospect).
LikeLike
Look I liked Milner more than most but I’d hardly say that Matt is wrong here. In fact odds are he turns out right. Remember this is just him trying to get used to Clearwater. Who knows if he will be able to handle Reading yet considering the struggles he’s had so far and the fact that his stuff isn’t extraordinary and as Matt said his frame is very small. Milner could become a starter but he has to overcome a lot to cement himself in that status. I’m rooting for him.
LikeLike
That isn’t talking smack. That is a reasonable projection of Milner.
LikeLike
I stand by it, Milner’s stuff is much better out of the pen (a role he had in college) and the frame just doesn’t look like it will hold up over a major league workload. That being said, he can be very good along the way, but I see a guy who should and could move to the pen at some point and get to the majors quickly. He has enough of a change that he isn’t a LOOGY, he doesn’t have quite the stuff of Bastardo, but could he do what Horst did in 2012, absolutely.
LikeLike
I don’t disagree with your evaluation of milner, but I am going to call out one of your points. “Looks like it can’t hold up to a major league workload”. Has anyone ever done a study to back that up? I seem to recall a certain Jamie Moyer pitching a wholllleee lot of innings and he’s pretty slight, same for Greg Maddux and that’s only two. How about Pedro Martinez… 5’11” 219 wins before his body broke down.
While I don’t doubt a larger frame is “more likely” to hold up, until I see a study, I tend to think the change in odds is unlikely to be significant enough to warrant stereotyping of a Pitcher with no significant injury into a relief role only.
In short (no pun intended! LOL), saying a “6ft tall pitcher must be a relief guy because he’s only 6ft” seems a bit premature. This isn’t basketball, it’s baseball.
LikeLike
Two points with Milner and frame:
Height – It is a bit overrated, but it matters. The taller you are (and if you use it in your release point), the more natural downward plane on the ball, the more groundouts you get and the less flyballs you get. At 6′ 2″ Milner is plenty tall enough he just isn’t going to get any advantage from his height.
Frame – Milner is built only slightly better than Tocci, he was supposed to put on weight and strength in college and he never did. You worry about a slight guy holding up because it is a long season and players tend to lose weight and strength over it, and if you start off small, by the end you have a tendancy to be gassed. Moyer was slight (he also as we all know got away with not having to throw hard) but even then he is 2″ shorter and 5lbs heavier. That isn’t to say slight pitchers never work, but it is not a good combination especially when he has shown good evidence he might be one of those guys that just can’t put on weight.
LikeLike
Matt—I would agree on the weight..but there are exceptions…Cole Hamels was a stick in 2007.
LikeLike
agreed and many compare him to Hamels. He’s young still.
LikeLike
I wasn’t really referring to build as much as I was height, but I tend to agree. You don’t need to be Mike Stanton to pitch, but you also shouldn’t be “Where’s Waldo”… Extreme builds in either direction for pitchers are likely to cause problems with injury and ability in general. One due to lack of flexibility/range of motion, the other due to lack of strength and coordination (muscular size correlates positively to both strength and coordination and negatively to flexibility and range of motion).
As to height, yes, I agree the higher release point does cause some benefit, but the difference between a 6’3” and 6′ player is probably negligible when it comes to ground balls (whereas a pitcher who throws with good sink is likely to have a much more significant difference to one who doesn’t). 5’10” vs 6’8” yeah, that’s pretty significant. Though I’d argue at 6’8” command won’t be good enough to be a starter so again… problems with both extremes.
LikeLike
What VOR said.
That’s not talking smack. It’s hard to play in the majors, even as a bullpen arm.
LikeLike
That’s 3 very good starts after 3 horrible outings. The trend is up. He has some pedigree. Did you ever look at his father’s stats (Brian). He was drafted ias a catcher n 1978 by the Blue Jays. He played in the majors in 1978 as an 18 year old. He went 4 – 9 with a triple and 3 runs scored. Interesting thing was it was in late June of 1978. He must have been signed and started playing for the Blue Jays immediately. After the 2 game debut, He never saw the majors again. He played a few seasons in the minors. He reached AA before calling it quits at age 22. 1978 was only the 2nd draft for the new franchise. How would you like to say your hit .444 for a major league club in your 18th year? That’s better than Lloyd Moseby taken #1 in the ’78 draft and it’s even better than Danny Ainge who was taken the year before. Yes, youngsters, that’s the current President of the Boston Celtics.
LikeLike
Brian Milner was drafted right out of high school and signed with the Blue Jays. He was the only high school C drafted that signed and immediately acquired the starting C position. After a few bad games he was sent back down to the minors. Due to injuries his playing career ended. There are only 21 men in the system that signed and went directly to MLB. Hoby on the other hand played college ball for the Texas Longhorns, pitched in the CWS, then was drafted and started in the NYPL. He’s now developing through the farm system. He’s definitely top pedigree. I wish him much success.
LikeLike
Not sure quite what to make of Milner. I think his age is fine for Clearwater. I didn’t think all that much of him going into this season, because his K rate at Lakewood wasn’t all that good, his BB rate was just ok, and same with his G/F ratio. So far this season his BB rate is down, and both his K rate and G/F rate are dramatically improved. In SSS it could be the particular teams which CLW has faced, but Milner’s peripherals are quite impressive. His H/9 was good last year, not as good so far in 2013, leaving his WHIP a little high. The worst stat this season is the number of HRs, which is definitely unacceptable, but SSS. I don’t think MIlner is all that short for a LHP..
LikeLike
One reason why I was interested in Milner coming into the season was because his K/9 ticked up in the second half of his season last year. It went from 5.60 K/9 in 27 July innings to 7.64 in 35 August innings. Granted, the 7.64 still isn’t great, but it does include one 4 inning, 0 strikeout game. Maybe he was figuring something out, or maybe he was going through a dead arm phase when he first got to Lakewood.
LikeLike
Joe Savery, in 1 2/3 innings, gave up four hits and two walks, yet only got charged with one run. Hard to do, even for a reliever. I point this out because it’s a case study that illustrates why ERA can be such a deceptive statistic, especially for relievers who are dealing with inherited runners. Horst should be given an extra long leash.
LikeLike
Horst is having exceptionally bad luck and I’m certainly willing to give him time to sort it out. Durbin had no business getting a contract in Philly, though. Aumont looks like he usually does, boom or bust from outing to outing. I really feel for DeFratus that he is considered a worse option than some of these guys by the organization, even if it has to do with options.
Regarding Savery, he has been dominant on the year as a whole. Not because of his ERA, but because of his K/BB numbers.
LikeLike
Mojica is 24 yr old SS batting .400 @ Clearwater and Duran is batting .259 @ Reading . What’s the problem ? move him up to take Durans spot.
LikeLike
Because Edgar Duran is 22 and has a higher ceiling. Also, comparing farmhands based on BA is a bit archaic.
LikeLike
Oh hell…..now you did it. You can’t suggest that they move an older guy up over a younger guy on this website without getting comments about how the younger guy has more potential. The whole mindset here is that we want to take the young guys, play them as much as possible, and hope that, by the time they are 24, they can play as well as the older guy that plays behind them. Don’t make a suggestion like that again unless you want to catch hell over it.
LikeLike
Don’t get salty just because you have no concept of developing young players.
LikeLike
John you obviously have a personal connection to a player in the system that does not get the playing time you would like him to get. It very understandable and even to a degree locigal what you are saying, the problem is nobody on this site makes any kind of decision about playing time. So it really doesn’t matter what people here think or say ,because in the end the Phillies are making the decisions.
LikeLike
Those of us who urge caution when evaluating players have been proven right pretty much 100% of the time.
LikeLike
Of course in this case, the age/level issue is supplemented by a big sample size issue, as well as the fact that his performance this year is driven almost entirely by a .459 BABIP. This is one instance where there just is no case, at all, for a promotion. His career line is .259/.304/.335. An empty .259 does not begin to cut it, even for a SS. Calling him org filler is probably overly generous.
Honestly, I have more patience for people who don’t get age/level than a do for people who don’t have get the concepts of sample size and who massively over value minor league BA to the exclusion of all else. At least with age/level you can point to some (few) exceptions, and/or argue that baseball as a whole doesn’t give older prospects a fair chance (not true, but hard to prove wrong).
LikeLike
No comment on Numata, the guy you wanted to cut loose because he “had his chance”? The one who’s on fire and has a .306/.343/.435 line on the season?
The concept, btw, is not to hope they’re as good in a few years as the org. filler they’re playing over, but to hope that they’re better.
LikeLike
He forgot about the Numata comments, because it no longer supports his agenda. Now the mindset of the regular posters is the new agenda.
LikeLike
Numata went 3 for 3 in a game earlier in the week and got his numbers up……….temporarily. Just a couple days before he was stolen on 9 (NINE) times in one game. And just FYI, I don’t have any family ties here. I just don’t see Numata or Moore going anywhere……period.
LikeLike
I can’t say that I watched the game but it’s not like stolen bases are always the catcher’s fault. Some pitchers just don’t give their catchers a chance to throw anyone out. Brad Lidge for example
LikeLike
He dropped at least three of the balls trying to make transfers.
LikeLike
Didn’t we go through this already, with the daily posts about Austin Hyatt’s production to age/level?
LikeLike
And Cloyd last year, with Ruf also. Actually, when you think about it..the last 5/6 years there was one particular guy every year. Rizz a few years back and way back Chris Roberson.
LikeLike
You are correct, and you left out Overbeck from your list. But I don’t think there was ever a player that the ‘age to level’ argument/explantion had to be repeated more for, than Austin Hyatt.
LikeLike
Mojica is repeating the FSL and did not hit at all well last year. This is his 8th season in the minors and his 3rd organization.
LikeLike
Sebastian Valle takes a lot of criticism for his 7 – 1 K/BB rate from last year. How about this:
Chris Serritella: 112 PAs, 33 Ks, 2 BBs, 29% K rate, 1.8% BB rate.
LikeLike
Terrible. Both terrible. Is anyone saying Serritella is a great prospect?
LikeLike
If he maintains those rates for the entire year, he’ll basically cement himself as a non-prospect. The only reason Valle could somewhat get away with it was because he’s a catcher and there was still some hope that he was young enough to turn that trend around. He’s actually walking a decent amount this year, so maybe he has, but most people are still (rightly) skeptical.
Serritella is neither particularly young (23), nor at a premium position, so he has basically no leash.
LikeLike
Valle does have on his resume a Futures All-Star game.
LikeLike
Yeah, but he’s also had more time to get honors like that. Serritella could, conceivably (note: not likely), go to a Futures All-Star game as well.
But yes, Valle should, for multiple reasons, get more slack than Serritella, and Serritella is playing his way out of any shot at the majors currently.
LikeLike
Yeah, he has a very disappointing line so far. I’ll echo my comments from a couple days ago and say Charles should be getting his chance at Clearwater soon if he keeps up his current performance.
LikeLike
Serritella keeps this up, somebody will be taking his spot in the Clearwater lineup, 4th round pick or not. He’s on a pace for 160Ks and 10 walks. They’d have to get him out of there at the end of this month, if he keeps up this pace.
LikeLike
tyson was sent down to AA today
LikeLike
wow.
LikeLike
And from the story in the paper, sounds like the Phils are trying to make adjustments to his swing and he’s not carrying it into games and frustrating the org. This guy just doesn’t get it unfortunately, one thing after another it seems.
LikeLike
Jesse Biddle allows 4 BB and a 1 H with no Ks and is out in the first inning after getting two out. Will try to keep everyone posted if there is an injury situation here.
LikeLike
Thanks for any updates you can give. Game notes don’t give any indication why he was pulled.
LikeLike
Was pulled due to pitch count. Better safe than sorry
LikeLike