New Workout Groups March 18

Spring Training 2013

Again from @BaseballBetsy

Notes:

– Released guys are gone and the teams are starting to look clearer with not much more coming down from the major league club

– Tocci, Quinn, and Walding are still in what looks like the Clearwater group, doesn’t seem to be an obvious SS ahead of him (Tocci looks more like he is destined for Lakewood)

– Garner in Group 3 is not a positive sign

Unknown's avatar

About Matt Winkelman

Matt is originally from Mt. Holly, NJ, but after a 4 year side track to Cleveland for college he now resides in Madison, WI. His work has previously appeared on Phuture Phillies and The Good Phight. You can read his work at Phillies Minor Thoughts

55 thoughts on “New Workout Groups March 18”

    1. I think he is certainly on the borderline, right now it looks like they are pushing him against higher competition, the group he is in has some guys you think might go to Clearwater.

      Like

    2. I remember Mikael Franco saying last September …on my way to Reading in 13. At the time, thought he was being overly hopeful, however maybe Joe Jordan did say something to him to that affect. Would be out of the ordinary.

      Like

      1. Jordan was quoted in the Inquirer last month saying Franco was headed for Clearwater. Not saying that can’t change, but I doubt he’d say that if the plan was to move him to Reading.

        Like

        2. I saw Franco play in two minor league games started by major league pitchers (Kendrick, Hamels) and he looked like he could hang there. I think he’s headed to Reading.

          Like

  2. I can’t wait until they just tell us where guys will be placed so we don’t have to guess anymore.

    Like

  3. Having a hard time believing Hill and Lino are ahead of anyone in group 4 considering the numbers from last year. Actually, having a hard time believing Hill is still there at all.

    Like

  4. They keep listing Quinn in group 3, but he seems to play with the guys from group 2 everyday.

    Like

  5. Miguel Nunez sighting in (the Lakewood) group 4. I don’t know what Jonathan Musser (group 4) could have shown to get placed in anything other than group 5. He was terrible last year.

    Like

    1. I think Domonic Brown is safe from being listed in any minor league workout groups, going forward. 3 for4 with another homerun. He’s a machine.

      Like

      1. I’ve been one of his biggest boosters, and of course SSS applies, but it is begging to look like he has a good chance to even exceed my best hopes.

        Like

        2. Good post Larry….30 words….new record for you. . Succinct and to the point. Keep up the good work

          Like

  6. Tocci is the interesting one for me. Will he be left to play in LWood? At 18, that would be something. Eldemere’s release might be part of that thinking if Hudson goes up to play in CWater to allow Tocci playing time. As for Garner, of course he’s in group 3, he’ll be starting in CWater. As for Franco, I think they’re trying to decide what to do about 3B as an organization. Should Asche start in AA or AAA? If he starts in AAA, the question is who plays in AA. Fields can hold down AAA 3B to start if they let Asche start in AA and earn his way up. There’s no SS prospect at CWater so I’m sure they’re considering Quinn for there although i’m assuming they’ll still start him in LWood with someone like Carver or even Abeau in CWater. Walding will be at LWood but Z Green has played very well and it would be a shame for him to have to wait for WSport to start. Lots of guys for the LWood spots. Also, with the way Morgan is pitching, combined with the love the team is showing him, I’m wondering if there’s any way they’d move him straight to AAA. That would shake things up considerably but if they think he’s ready, they might do it. After R Lopez’s start today, I’m sure there’s lots of talk going on…

    Like

    1. Have there been any reports of an uptick in power from Tocci? The 10 pound weight gain has been widely reported, but I haven’t heard anything about it translating into his hitting. Also, has anyone seen Jose Pujols swing a bat in Clearwater? Would love to hear reports!

      Like

      1. Tocci still looks VERY thin and is only 18 yrs old. I’m still expecting him to go to WSport but that’s not how they’re handling him right now.

        Like

  7. More I’m thinking, more I have a feeling it’ll be a Joesph/Suomi combo in Lehigh. I can’t see them wasting Valle in a backup role, though I would like Rupp to be the full time catcher in AA. Suomi isnt really a great catcher, but its a good org filler guy who actually hit decent last year in a backup role (plus he can play 1B as well). Unless the Phils make a trade and try and get something for Valle, cause at this point, he could be an odd man out for AAA.

    The big battle is going to be the Lehigh pen I think. You know it’ll be Diekman, DeFratus, Simon, Rosenberg for sure, with probably Savery, Ramirez, Hyatt and Friend battling it out for the last couple spots. I think Friend almost has to be in AAA at this point, nothing else for him to prove in AA, he did ok for Lehigh last year except for one or two rough outings. Wouldn’t be surprised if the Phils give up on Savery or Ramirez to be honest.

    Lehigh OF should be interesting as well as you’ll have Ruf in LF, Gillies in CF, and I would think Castro has a good shot in RF based on his season in Reading. Which leaves you D. Mitchell, Susdorf, and maybe J. Mitchell fighting it out.

    Like

    1. Yup, it looks like Susdorf might be done because Valle will probably be the DH leaving Rupp to catch in AA and there are better OFs. They’ll keep another catcher there too, either Suomi or Lerud. Savery and Jiminez are probably fighting for one spot while Aumont or Stutues will get sent down and take another spot. I think Friend gets the last spot with JC and Hyatt either getting released or sent back to AA.

      Like

      1. I’m not sure if its likely but there’s a chance that Morgan stays at AAA. This could have a ripple effect on the pen because Cloyd could even get moved to the pen if they want to keep some veterans starting and don’t think he’ll ever be a starting option in the major leagues.

        Like

      2. Forgot about Lerud, unless by some miracle they keep him over Qunitero, which I dont see happening. Maybe Lerud will back yup in Lehigh and Suomi will have “turf toe/first base coach duty” most of the year.

        I was wondering about the staff, do they go Cloyd, Pettibone, Martin, Morgan? Or does Morgan go to Reading and Bass/Cochran/Cook get the 4th spot.

        Also, I saw Murphy working in Group 2 I’m assuming for a Reading spot, but I wouldnt overlook Austin Gallagher, who hit .283/15/74 for the Dodgers High A team as a 23 year old last year. A little old for the league, and he’s been stuck at high A the last 4 outta 5 years, but he’s a 1B who also plays a little LF. Could be interesting to see how he does in Reading or even Clearwater.

        Like

    2. I think Valle will fight it out with Rupp. They’ll get each of them as many ABs as they can and let them catch equally. One guy will rise over the other and then we’ll all know. Who looks like a big leaguer and who looks like a backup.

      Like

  8. I’m on record that I’d like to see Joseph get the majority of AAA reps at catcher with Valle spelling him and playing DH/1B other days. Valle’s skill set as a catcher is a known quantity … his development in that regard is not going to regress if he plays other positions. But having him DH or play some 1B may allow him to focus on his hitting approach more, which is sorely lacking.

    Also, if Valle starts at AA, it not only sends him back a level from last season, but it stops everybody else (Rupp, Lino, etc.) in their tracks. I think Rupp in particular has earned a look at AA.

    Like

  9. Who the heck in John Taylor is Group 3? Is that Zach Taylor who didn’t hit above a buck 70? When they leave a gap between players like they did for Lavin and Birmingham, does that mean they are on the DL? Hudson is interesting. I remember reading that Hudson’s defense could play in the Major Leagues right now. In fact that was said a couple of years ago by a Manager of the club. Will his bat ever be better than a toothpick? .

    Like

  10. Surprised at how much higher Joesph is than all of the upper level catching prospects. Is it just to get him more AB’s?

    Like

  11. Looks like Stefan Jarrin the PTBNL from LA for Victorino is no longer in the org. Not like he was a prospect or anything (22 in GCL) but it is interesting. I think a couple buckets of balls and some pine tar could have helped a little more.

    Like

  12. It’s interesting to see so much vocal support to make Valle a DH, in order to make sure Cameron Rupp gets full-time reps at catcher in AA. I don’t know that the organization should impede the younger, better, prospect. Rupp is not the type of top tier prospect that should force them to shuffle other better prospects development schedule.

    Like

    1. Yes, I agree. Let’s not forget: save for a lousy physical, Valle would have been the key piece in a deal to net the Phillies an 8th inning guy during the offseason. That’s the value of a catching prospect. The Phillies do nothing but hurt his trade value going forward if they turn him into a DH. Rupp seems to be much less esteemed, deservedly or not.

      I think Valle starts at AAA, with Joseph at AA and Rupp backing him up, getting a fair number of starts when Joseph plays DH.

      Like

  13. Luis Gonzalez
    Stefan Jarrin
    David Newmann
    Moises Rivas

    All announced released. But it looks like there are at least two other players left off this list…is the assumption then that they were released as well?

    Ulises Joaquin
    Corey Young

    Like

    1. If you look close enough at the picture Joaquin’s name was cut off. When the pic was taken. Joaquin , Birmingham , and Lavin are all on the dl

      Like

  14. Hoping that Joseph will spend his whole season at AAA LV. With Ruiz due to leave at ’13s end, he should be worked enough to fit in the Phils lineup.

    I previously requested that he “show me” (as in Missouri) and tyhis spring I (we) came to see just why he was the centerpiece in that trade. I look for some significant right-handed power to the lineup. Good arm, too. A little better digging out the pitch in the dirt needed, but that will be attended to.

    Valle will, IMO, benefit from more time at Reading. We know his judgment on strikes/balls on offense needs some serious work. Along with Rupp (I prefer him to Valle) he will have a better chance to address these ills.

    IMO, we have undervalued Rupp; this season at AA should tell us just how real he could be for a MLB job. Hope he comes through because I see him as Joseph’s back-up.

    Like

  15. After more research, I’m even more confused…..was wondering how Hill and Lino were grouped above anyone in group 4. Now I wondering how anyone in group 3 is rated better than anyone in group 4 at catcher. Ludy and Carman are both proven catchers at the college level and did well in their short seasons in 2012. Ludy was the Big 12 Player of the year and Carman is a two time Rawlings Gold Glove winner at catcher. Neither gets that kind of recognition at. Their respective levels without being solid. Seems to me they keep some of the younger, less developed guys hoping they will be as good as these two by the time they get to their age. Why not just go with proven experience?

    Like

    1. Because Carmen and Ludy have limited ceilings. Both are extreme long shots to have a profile as a back up (look at Rupp who was much better than either of them and doesn’t have a starting profile). Yes Hill and Lino are huge risks but at least Lino has the tools that he could actually be a major league catcher unlike the other two. Minor leagues are not about stats but about tools and development. Short story is that being “developed” doesn’t mean anything unless it comes with upside and so you go with upside because there is at least a chance.

      Like

      1. Have to agree to disagree on Carman and Ludy…..in part. I don’t see Ludy as a starting catcher, but Carman definitely has the tools at catcher. Defensively, he’s as good behind the plate as anyone they have. As a hitter, he also has upside. The more AB’s he gets, the better he will be. His stats last summer confirm it as his average kept getting better every month as he saw more playing time. Now for Hill…..like Carman, he was drafted after his senior year in college, but he was just mediocre his senior year. As previously stated, Carman won two national Gold Gloves his Junior and senior years and only had one error in those two years behind the plate. In two years in the minors, Hill has done NOTHING! Hit .129 last year. Talk about zero upside, and they have him above Ludy and Carman. It’s a joke.

        Like

  16. Have to agree to disagree on Carman and Ludy…..in part. I don’t see Ludy as a starting catcher, but Carman definitely has the tools at catcher. Defensively, he’s as good behind the plate as anyone they have. As a hitter, he also has upside. The more AB’s he gets, the better he will be. His stats last summer confirm it as his average kept getting better every month as he saw more playing time. Now for Hill…..like Carman, he was drafted after his senior year in college, but he was just mediocre his senior year. As previously stated, Carman won two national Gold Gloves his Junior and senior years and only had one error in those two years behind the plate. In two years in the minors, Hill has done NOTHING! Hit .129 last year. Talk about zero upside, and they have him above Ludy and Carman. It’s a joke.

    Like

  17. two comments; in the catchers department- is willans hurt or let go? and joaquin i wouldn’t think would have been released. wasn’t it mentioned last year that he had a pretty good arm with some decent stuff and fairly young.

    Like

    1. Astudillo blew out a knee. Out for at least 6 months. That’s going to hurt his chances at catcher. Because of his build, I always thought he would end up at 1st base anyway.

      Like

  18. Lakewood is going to be very exciting.
    Clearwater seems like it will be mostly guys with supposed talent that need to prove they really belong (Dugan, Altherr, Pointer, Hudson, H.Martinez, Serritella, Lino, Ludy and on the pitching side Brady and Milner. ) Franco seems like the only top prospect.
    I think Morgan and Asche should start in Reading which should also have Biddle, Collier, and Rupp. The pitching should be exciting to watch as Wright, Colvin, Rosin could all be possible starters with possibly Buchanan, Garner, and Rodriquez on the fringes.

    The true gaping prospect holes I see are
    1B at AAA (Overbeck is org filler, Susdorf same; leave it for Joseph, Fields, Ruf)
    SS at AAA (Since Galvis will be in the majors, this position will be AAAA junk)
    2B at AA (Alonso is maybe as fringe guy but this is probably a Abreu type)
    SS at A (Carver is the only guy I could see here, Quinn has to go to LKW, probably another org filler, maybe Hanzawa since he might be under team control for a massive demotion.)

    Like

    1. –Ruf will play nowhere but LF. If his bat comes alive and they need it, he must continue his learning process, every inning out there is crucial.

      –Alfonso will show his solid bat (think Fransden) and serviceable fielding at 2B. He could wind up a utility guy in majors if his bat does in fact play well in high minors for a year or two.

      –Hanzawa will stay in high minors. They would release him before sending him to low A. Maybe Clearwater for a bit if there is a SS crisis there. I see Galvis at LV for April, then Hanzawa taking over to back up a fine pitching staff when Galvis is called up. Hanzawa can field also, they need him there.

      Like

    2. I bet Albert Cartwright will get the majority of 2b reps at Reading. Guess here is that Alonso is utility guy who still gets 300+ ABs.

      Like

    3. I think Abeau could be the guy who gets sent down to CWater to play SS with Carver. Cartright will play 2B at Reading and I don’t expect Galvis to be back in the minor leagues.

      Like

        1. I think Duran will play in Reading and Hanzawa will play in Lehigh Valley. Hanzawa was an all star who won that game last year by getting on and scoring the winning run. How can you keep him in AA?

          Like

  19. One thing I noticed is that the organization is really going out of it’s way to see Roman Quinn get a lot of at-bats against advanced pitching. He hit in the Reading lineup again on Monday. It was hinted at in the recap, that they manipulated the lineup to get him 6 plate appearances during the game. He was 0-3, with a BB and 2 HBPs.
    I think they are giving serious consideration to starting him in Clearwater. I would’ve never considered that a possibility, before the spring. Considering he is learning to play SS, and learning to switch hit, you would think they would go level to level with Quinn. It’s very encouraging to see how they are working him though.

    Like

  20. Watched groups 3 and 4 yesterday, here are some things I saw:
    1. Walding crushed a stand up triple. Didn’t see him field much
    2. Gillies walked around like a peacock but on pinch ran for both squads. Seems a little too arrogant for my taste
    3. Tocci very skinny and did not play, at least from what I saw. I don’t get the hype
    4. Carman very good defensive catcher
    5. Z Green looked very good at 3rd. Didn’t have any hits and had a walk. Big kid.
    6. Cozens crushed a HR.
    just a few notes from an amateur Phillie fan

    Like

    1. You need to watch Tocci actually play to get the hype. He is a 4-tool player potentially with everything but power coupled with advanced baseball instincts for a teenager.

      Like

    2. I really don’t get the view that players need to be humble. A bit of an ego can help a guy’s performance.

      Like

    3. Did you really just say you “don’t get the hype” about a guy without seeing him play based on his body only? Wow, man. Wow.

      Like

    4. Glad to hear from someone who has actually seen Carman play besides me. Behind the plate, he’s as good as anyone.

      Like

    5. Glad to hear from someone who has actually seen Carman play besides me. Behind the plate, he’s as good as anyone.

      Like

Comments are closed.