Box Score Recap 7-16-2012

Box Score Recap

Tyson Gillies puts up 2 more hits.  I’d say something positive about him, but I don’t want to jinx him.  And at this point, with the way his luck seems to run, I believe any one of us could.  So no talking nice about Tyson Gillies.

LV  REA  CLR  LKW  WIL  GCL  DSL  VSL suspended

142 thoughts on “Box Score Recap 7-16-2012”

  1. DeFratus looking good early.
    Its funny some people cut RAJ a break on the offense because of Howard and Utley and they dont with the bullpen after losing DeFratus and Stutes.

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    1. DeFratus and Stutes and Conteras and Herndon, combined with an unexpectedly dreadful Qualls and an underperforming Bastardo, Savery and Rosenberg. Almost every that could have gone wrong has gone wrong in the bullpen.

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    2. Thats a good point. On paper the moves were good moves however all GM’s are evaluated in Hindsight. Championships are not won on paper so I think its totally fair to be a little critical of RAJ.

      WTG Roman with a 3/5 2 runs and a 3 bagger.

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    3. DeFratus wasn’t a piece of the bullpen, he got a callup in September but he wasn’t a guy certain of a spot in spring training.

      Stutes is a blow, but you can’t lump in DeFratus because he wasn’t assured a spot other than a chance to make the team.

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      1. Actually I think you can make a case or DeFratus. If there was an injury than he was counted on to step in. He wasnt there to step in, so they had to reach farther down The depth charts forguys like Rosenberg and Sanches.

        Not to support Amaro too much but he did build some organizational depth at RH relief pitching and it was decimated by injuries to contreras, stutes, Herndon, DeFratus an even aumont

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      2. Yeah, the overall point is that everything went wrong, which killed depth and required the team to promote guys earlier than anticipated but, more importantly, forced them to move guys into roles for which they were not quite prepared (Schwimer and Diekman are prime examples – both will remain major league pitchers – but, right now, they should not be the the third and fourth options out of the bullpen).

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    4. That’s because De Fratus and Stutes aren’t the pitching equivalent of Utley and Howard. But bullpen injuries have definitely hurt. Even with De Fratus out, I’d have thought at least one of the call ups from LHV would have pitched pretty well but it hasn’t turned out that way.

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  2. Ok, I am joining the push for Duffy to Reading, Ruf to Lehigh. This hurts because I have been a fan of Overbeck but he has obvously peaked and it’s not good enough.

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    2. Not to jump on you specifically but when will people stop jumping on the bandwagon of every guy that is old for his league and putting up good numbers?

      Weren’t the Rizz, Derrick Mitchell, Darin Ruf, Cody Overbeck enough of a learning experience for you guys?

      Plus with the exception of Mitchell, they are all 1B, where the offensive requirements are sky high to make the bigs.

      I don’t know…I’ll never get it, but I guess it’s fun for you guys to overrate these guys….

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      1. Maybe it is more of a sub-consciousness philosophical aspect of the ‘up or out’ mentality. Keep promoting until he cannot do it, then move on to the next candidate, .hoping gold is struck with the latest.

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        1. Well, eventually they will run into Howard, as which point they won’t be displacing him. They also won’t really be worth much to another team in a trade, because every team has 3-4 similar 1b guys that can mash the ball really well against minor leagues, but can’t play another position.

          If Ruf is able to play an adequate LF, then that would change his fortunes.

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          1. This post was from James in Dec 2006. I think the point is its ok to want a guy like Duffy moved up because sometimes you don’t know what you have in a guy. You can also point to Berry who is holding is own so far with the Tigers.

            “Bourn is an impressive 163/191 in stolen bases in the minors, but his future (it would seem) is as a 5th outfielder, where he will be a defensive replacement/pinch runner for guys like Pat Burrell, and to me, that doesn’t warrant his placement in this prospect list. He could surprise me, or he could turn into a guy that bounces from AAA to the bigs his entire career.”

            At the very least Duffy performs well at the next level and then becomes an asset you can flip for something else.

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            1. 1- If any of these overage 1b mashers can learn to play plus a play CF, then we might have a comparison.

              2- James was in the minority in his opinion of Bourn. BA had him 7th in our system.

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            2. That’s a Terrible comparison and I’m struggling to even see what you think the connection is between Michael Bourn and Chris Duffy.

              Bourn was a CF and leadoff hitter that put up a .898 OPS at Lakewood as a 21 year old, cracked the majors at 23, full time player at 25, and now a ML Allstar.

              Duffy meanwhile, is 24, killing Lakewood ( as he should) as an overage former college all American, but already failed at Clearwater, and in the small chance he ever sees the majors it will be at age 27 or 28 as a AAAA type.

              Other than that his situation is just like Michael Bourn’s.

              Good comparison

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            3. Ok I don’t believe Duffy is Michael Bourn. What I was saying is that people here are sometimes wrong about what a player can be. If you can show me where any of you said that Bourn was a full time all star in the bigs back then I’ll bow down to your keen awareness of who is and who isnt a potential big league player.

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            4. But “people are sometimes wrong” doesn’t get you very far. I could try to craft an argument why D’Arby Myers is still a prospect. People would (rightly) point out the many reasons why I was being silly. I could come back and say “well, people have been wrong before, maybe you guys are wrong about Myers.” But that wouldn’t be enough. I’d need to come back with a REASON why people might be wrong in this particular case.

              Ditto for Duffy. Why are we wrong about him? It seems to me that, in order to make that argument, you would need a VALID comp – a similar player who went on to major league success. Without that … well sure, anything can happen, I suppose even D’Arby Myers could figure it out. But I’m not holding my breath.

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            5. I like your Quintin Berry point; he has a good BA (.297), a good OBP (.376) and 14 steals without being caught for Detroit, yet he was never considered much of a prospect in the Phillies system.

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            6. He wasn’t consider a prospect for Detroit either. Those numbers look like a huge fluke to me, but I truly hope he keeps it up.

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      2. I believe Ruf is better than those other guys do to his consistency. You never know a guys ceiling til you push him. Anaheims Trumbo was apparently considered one of those types of players.

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        2. Trumbo is only six months older than Ruf. He was rated #8 in the Angels system by BA before his AA year in 2009. He has always been more prospect-y than Ruf.

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      3. Not every old player putting up great numbers at a position with a high offensive requirement is the same. It depends how old they are, how good their numbers are (including peripherals), how consistently they’ve been performing, what level they’re at, how good their defense is at their position, and if they have any chance of playing another position.

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    3. If Ruf goes up, wouldn’t you move Murphy to REA and Duffy back to CLR? Duffy didn’t hit at CLR earlier this year, so I can’t see any reason to believe that anyone within any professional organization would advocate him getting that jump right now.

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      1. I would (though admittedly, I am not in any professional organization). Murphy has spent 3 years proving he’s limited to A-ball. Duffy is at least mildly interesting (and while still old, not Murphy old) . Whatever the case, 1100 ops in low A certainly translates no worse to AA than an 830 OPS in high A.

        I’m not saying they will do this, and they almost certainly will not, but I am in the camp that says they should do this. I am also in the camp that thinks, 3 years from now, no one will have the faintest memory of these 2 (except those who admire a good Mustache)

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        1. Can you shoe me the equation where a 1100 OPS in low A ball by a 24 year old feasting on younger inexperienced pitchers somehow equates to a 830 OPS in AA?

          Thanks

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        2. I wouldn’t be worried about which translates better to AA. I’d be worried about whether, if you think Duffy might have a shot, you’d be asking too much of him to skip a level he really butchered for a short time earlier this year. Murphy can come back to A+ when/if Duffy is really ready to go to AA. No harm.

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          1. No one can butcher anything in a meaningful way in 73 ABs (as I’m sure you know).

            Given their statistical profiles, Duffy is a better bet (bad bet as it may be, thank you very much LarryM) to someday have a meaningful, if limited, career, and probably a better bet to have success in AA in the short term as well.

            Oh so many wasted words. . . Don’t think I don’t know.

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  3. Brown with outfield assist cutting someone down at home.
    Rupp with another HR. Really hitting better over the last month plus.
    Kelly Dugan with 2 2b’s. Average to .286. Nice to see. He has to keep doing it to take a further step forward in the minds of most.

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    1. Skepticism is understandable for Dugan, he was viewed more as a “signability” guy when he was drafted then a true top 100 pick. And he’s never been healthy long enough to have a stretch of success like this before. I liked reading v1again’s report yesterday that he looked adequate in the outfield.

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    2. Someone?!? That was the “legendary” SAM FULD, muse of a thousand hack sportscribes, who he nailed at the plate.

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      1. it was about a 250ft throw from left on a single, and Fuld was trying to score from second, not trying to play it down but it was more Fuld’s mistake than Browns throw. Still great to see Dom in good health

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  4. I saw Duffy play on Sunday…he really needs to be moved up and challenged. He is crushing everything at this level. We need to find out if he is legit or not because he is 25. Certainly he should be moved to Clearwater, but I could see argument of moving him to Reading and challenging him.

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    1. Duffy did not play well at Clearwater. I think he needs to go back there before we jump him to Reading. If he dominates in Clearwater, he can start next year in Reading. He is so old and so far down in the minors that, even though he is a nice story, I don’t take what he is doing too seriously at this point.

      I also think it’s time to promote Ruf. He’s going to be the type of guy who has to prove what he can do at every level. Time to move up.

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    2. He’s not legit.

      You know how I know? Because he’s 24 in Lakewood and a 1B.

      Let’s do an exercise here:

      Clearwater 2013 – 25 years old
      Reading 2014 – 26 years old
      Lehigh valley 2015 – 27 years old

      So in 2016, if he manages to progresses a level at a time ( which is no guarantee) he will be 28 with a chance to break into the bigs. Meanwhile Ryan Howard will be making about $25 – $30 mill a year.

      Of course they could promote him now and he could tear up Clearwater reading and Lehigh valley and force his way into the majors. There’s about a .000000000000000001 chance that happens.

      Or more likely he flames out in Clearwater or reading. And we’ll all look back in amusement at the Duffy lovers like we do now with the Rizz lovers

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      1. ‘There’s about a .000000000000000001 chance that happens’. …man, that persentage is like trying to figure out the real value of our national debt! Unfathomable.

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      2. I agree with the overall point, but I don’t think Howard is really relevant to his future. He could hurt himself again. Or if Howard is healthy, a blocked player is still tradeable. It’s a mistake to not want to develop a position just because you have an established big leaguer under a long contract. A lot can happen.

        Not that Duffy is likely to be that player of course. Clearwater was a small sample and it’s obvious Duffy can hit. But Duffy has NO defensive value whatsoever. And that he can hit is no surprise, he was one of the best D1 hitters his senior year. But he was drafted 26th round in spite of that.

        I think Duffy is underrated in that his one tool is more valuable than a player who can only field or throw. But he’s probably not a top 30 prospect.

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        1. Yes, you are right. Howard really doesnt have anything to do with Duffy’s prospect value. In my haste to type out that post I confused the issues. And I agree, you dont not develop a guy because he is blocked at his postion…..but the point remains, Duffy is not a prospect in my mind. Which makes him org filler. Which makes him more valuable at Lakewood…

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  5. Some of these guys mentioned….Rizzotti, Ruf, Duffy, etc. are playing at lower levels to help take some of the pressure off of some of the real prospects…someone made mention a few weeks ago about Duffy in Lakewood…Him being there has probably help that offense get going…for example if he being there is helping Franco…why mess with that if most think Franco is a top 15 prospect.

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    1. I get that Duffy is a non-prospect, but IMO it’s time for him to be a non-prospect at Clearwater again. Maybe he can help some bats in that lineup. What he’s doing at Lakewood recently is just silly.

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    2. Bingo. Chris Duffy might be the farm system’s organizational MVP this season. He was moved to Lakewood to do exactly what he is doing. Provide the young prospects with higher MLB potential some protection in the lineup and inject some life into the batting order. He is doing exactly that.

      The Lakewood lineup was a morgue before Duffy arrived. They were heading towards being called the Lakewood Mendozas. Duffy has helped get most of that lineup hitting again.

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      1. Just to be more clear, I am not calling for Duffy to be promoted. I suspect his is a non-prospect. His value is protecting younger players with higher MLB upside in batting orders at Williamsport, Lakewood, Clearwater, and maybe even Reading or Lehigh someday.

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        1. I thought line up protection was a myth? I have heard the myth argument before, can anyone clarify that? Also, as much as some would over value duffys prospect status it seems like other over value his ability to help younger guys. How exactly is he helping younger guys? Coaching wise? is it an intangible? Just because HE is hitting now everyone else does? Bottom line is i do not see duffy as a real prospect but i am not sure what the argument against him being challenged is. He hit good at lakewood, move him to clearwater. Just my opinion

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          1. Less pressure on a young guy to bat in the middle of the lineup and be a run-producer.
            Duffy on-base more means you are getting better pitches to hit.
            Duffy being behind you means that you are not getting pitched around and getting better pitches to hit.
            Increase in confidence from winning games.
            Possibly modeling on how to be a professional.

            Negatives: Very little, if any. A guy with a tiny chance to get to the show would get there a little bit later.

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            1. Counter point
              1. I have heard it argued on here, mostly in howard or pence conversations that lineup protection is a myth. I do apologize for not having a link for these conversations.
              2. Duffy is in his 3rd year as a pro, 2 were in the GCL. most of lakewood has that same amount of pro experience, what exactly does duffy have they don’t?
              3. Winning games is good for these guys, but i believe these prospects understand individual growth is the real point to A-
              Just my opinions

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            2. 1. Myth or not, almost every single player on the team has improved since Duffy entered the lineup. Prior to him, they were hitting very poorly.
              2. Three years of college experience.
              3. I think almost every single prospect would say that they would rather go 0-4 and win, than 3-4 and lose. These guys are kids that want to play, and improve, but they absolutely want to win. Its the managers/organization that focuses on encouraging individual growth.
              Just my opinions as well.

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  6. Agree with Duffy . Does he need to hit .500 to get promoted ? he is a 26 yr old and needs to be challenged . For all the Duffy haters on this site saying he is not a prospect , he was a college all-american and maybe a late bloomer but ” his numbers are his numbers ” We will not know if he has major league potential unless he is challenged at a higher level .

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    1. Haha replace Duffy’s name with Rizzotti and I swear this post was written in 2010.

      nobody here is a “Duffy hater”.

      I’m sure we all root for him since he is a Phillies minor leaguer (not Phillies prospect).

      Just cause we reasonable posters think he will never play in the majors and maybe his biggest strength is as a Org guy doesn’t make us haters

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      2. Your key word is ” think ” he will never be a major leaguer. Let’s find out and allow the process to develop . How many guys ( so called prospects ) do we have batting .390 in the system ?

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        1. I’ll say it again – high batting averages in small sample sizes for minor leaguer players mean nothing. Zero, zip, nada. Talk about his good BB rate, decent (but not great) contact rate for a slugger, excellent ISO. None of that makes him a real prospect, but on those numbers alone you can build a case for promoting him.

          But people getting excited about players based upon high batting averages based on small sample sizes are always wrong. Always.

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          1. If everyone took the time to read and understand the Prospect Primer here, there would be a lot less arguing.

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    2. He was challenged. He started the year at Clearwater and hit .200 while striking out in 30% of his at bats. He struck out in 21% of his at bats last year in his second time through ROOKIE BALL, and even now has a strikeout rate over 20%.

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      1. So what is it “one and done ‘. No one gets a second chance ?. How about maybe he figured something about about his swing ? He would not be the first player who struggled , made adjustments , then had success . his numbers dictate he gets another look .Would he be replacing Babe Ruth in Clearwater ?

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        1. He credits alot of his turnaround to spending a few games talking asking and listening to Jim Thome when he was on his rehab stint… Said he learned a ton of useful aspects..

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    3. Duffy is 24 years old. Someone earlier noted his age as 25 and now he’s 26! He’s going to have to retire by the end of the thread at this rate!

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  7. Is Dugan back a top 30 prospect? Maybe top 15? He’s only 21 and his OPS is .843 in Lakewood. K rate is 25% but BB rate is a respectable 9% and homers are way up.

    What happened to him in 2010/2011? What kind of injury caused him to miss so much time? Hopefully he can get at a crack at Clearwater this season.

    For comparison, Castro’s OPS was .712 as a 21 year old in Lakewood.

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  8. Not sure who is the better candidate for comeback player of the year is so far, Dugan or Collier.

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    1. Collier doesn’t seem to have enough power to play a corner position, and I don’t think he has the speed to be an elite CF leadoff type. Unless he starts hitting like Tony Gwynn, I just don’t see it. I’m much more intrigued by Jiwan James to be honest.

      so to answer the original question, I’m going with Dugan

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      1. Collier has plus speed, and the ability to stay in CF. His BB rates are average, but not spectacular. He isn’t striking out that much. Stole 34 bases last year. He’s having a year that Jiwan James would dream about. He’s 21 years old, and frankly isn’t far behind Gillies and is easily our 2nd best CF prospect.

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      2. He’s played in CF all season. He stole 35 last season, so I think there might be enough speed there.

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      3. I think we need to reserve judgment on the power front considering the environments he has played in. He does not seem to have elite power, but I remember scouting reports saying he has some pop. Right now he is 14th in the FSL in SLG.

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        1. Agree. I think the Victorino comp is illustrative there. It would not shock me to see him hit 15 HR in Reading next year.

          Still probably true that he wouldn’t be much of a prospect if he was limited to corner OF, but he’s not.

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        2. SLG doesn’t really tell the story, as a singles hitter that bats .350 can outslug a HR hitter that only hits .250. His ISO is merely average, which frankly is fine for a CF with plus speed. However, CLW is a significant pitchers league, and I could see him putting up a .175 ISO next season in Reading.

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          1. Yeah, I couldn’t quickly find an ISO ranking for the FSL so I went with SLG. But one could imagine that some of his 2Bs could turn into HRs in Reading, as you imply.

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            3. minorleaguecentral.com has it.

              He’s 31st in ISO in the FSL for players with more than 100 PA.

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      4. Well, just because he’s a CF doesn’t mean he has to leadoff. If he can develop into a number 6-type hitter in CF with some speed and solid defense that’s awesome and not out of the realm of possibility.

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      5. I think higher of Collier. He is a catalyst type hitter. His raw numbers might not be as good as you want…but he gets things going. I think he makes majors and does well.

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    2. I like Collier, and think he is a real prospect. But “comeback?” His season last year was encouraging, represented legitimate progress from prior years and restored him to prospect status. This season represents (SSS caveat) further progression, but not really a comeback, unless we mean “comeback” from a 50 game suspension.

      I’m not sure I see him as a classic top of the line up player, though. His on base skills are not exceptional at this point. I tend to think that his career path, if he continues to develop, is more along the lines of a Victorino, combining decent on base skills, mid range power, and speed with good defense in CF. That’s a valuable package, despite the Victorino hate around here this year, but not a classic top of the lineup package. Then again, Vic has been a number 2 hitter most of his career, so what do I know.

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      1. I decided that I needed to take my own advice and look at Vic’s minor league numbers to see if the comparison holds up. And it does, basically. Vic was in AA at 21, but was a similar type hitter. His power (such as it is) developed late (age 23 season). His contact rates, base running, and BB rates were all comparable to Collier’s, at least if you see Collier’s progression this year as “real.”

        It occurs to me that some might say that I’m being inconsistent regarding sample size. Of course I do have some doubts about Collier on that basis, but what’s encouraging about his progress this year is progression in contact rate and ISO. Both of those attain significance in far fewer PA than BA. 169 PA is still a SSS, but for enough that it’s fair to conclude that his improvement is real.

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        1. +1 on the contact rate, K% and LD% all being statistically significant now and all being career bests.

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  9. Id go Collier for comeback player of the year.
    I think Dugan is 100% a top 20 prospect if he finishes the year healthy hitting .280 with a ton of doubles. Who else is in that 10-20 range?? Tyler Greene?

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    1. Tyler Greene has struck out in 40% of his plate appearances. He’s outside my top 30 at this point.

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    2. Biddle, May, Valle, Hernandez, Morgan, Franco, Colvin, Aumont, Bonilla, Gilles, Rodriguez, Pettibone, Collier, L Greene, Quinn, Cozens, Walding, Tocci, Gueller, Watson

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      2. I have larry green in the 8-10 range… considering coming into the year I had him around 13 he’s definately improved.

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        1. And he could move as high as 5 depending how he finishes out the year. Give me some power and a .290+ average and he’s in the back half of my top 5.

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        2. I had him in the mid-teens based on not really knowing what we would get with him. We knew power was a big thing, but HS power against what was described as not necessarily elite competition kind of made me skeptical. I think that concern has been resolved in the short season so far. He’s not outmatched in the least, and against some college guys and other minor leaguers with more pro experience than he. So good for him. Fun to dream on power we’re told is there with a guy taking his walks (over 15%), even with a high K rate right now (around 26%).

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    3. Biddle, May, Valle, Hernandez, Morgan, Franco, Colvin, Aumont, Bonilla, Gillies, Rodriguez, Pettibone, Collier, L Greene, Walding, Quinn, Cozens, Watson, Gueller, Tocci

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      1. Biddle, Hernandez, Morgan, Pettibone, May, Valle, LGreene, Walding, Quinn, Franco, Tocci, Cozens, Asche, Collier, Gillies, SWatson, MGueller, AWright, Bonilla, Aumont, Altherr, Castro, Lino, Rodriguez, JJames, Colvin, Rupp, Pointer, Dugan, DeFratus

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    4. Tyler is now around 29/30 for me… Going into the year I had him at 21, PP had him at 24, and there is no way you can consider him to have moved up based on the year he’s had.

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  10. I don’t know from the next guy what Duffy could be but its laughable when guys become adament one way or the other. Asche for instance, double jumped tore up CLW and struggling in Reading. No big deal its probably good for his development at his age.

    For those of us that want to see Duffy and Ruf pushed don’t insult our opinion of that by saying he has 0 chance because we’ve heard it before and we’ve seen the same guys go on to have mediocre big league careers and sometimes decent careers. Hell maybe he has a Matt Stairs type of career.

    If you want to say you don’t think he is anything fine. Just don’t say you know for sure because you could be wrong. If you knew for sure you would be working in a big league FO somewhere not chatting it up with a bunch of hacks like us.

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    1. I think Raul Ibanez would be a better comp. He was a LF/1B bench player until he was 30 and technically his rookie year he was 27 since he had under 130 AB’s before then. Clearly it does happen, just not very often.

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      1. Even so, Ibanez could play the outfield, and he was even adequate defensively until he was 35. And he was in AAA at Duffy’s age.

        What I find frustrating about DMAR’s post is the “we’ve seen it before” argument, which frankly cuts the other way. For example, Stairs was a guy who (a) could play the OF, and (b) was also in AAA at Duffy’s age, and had an outstanding season in AA a year younger than Duffy is now. The fact is that a player limited to first base in A ball at 24 … are there ANY examples in modern baseball of such a player going on to substantial major league success?

        And as for the “in a big league FO somewhere,” what’s funny about that (and this is not directed so much at DMAR, but more generally), is that the FO opinion tends to agree with us skeptics, and we end up having people around here criticizing the FO for not promoting these kind of players.

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    1. What’s there to say. I think we all know he can be a major league lead-off hitter. He might have the best OBP skills out of any of our prospects. Would be nice to see a healthy stretch though.

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    2. I think we should start a blog just for people who want to talk about Duffy, Ruf, Overbeck, etc. Let’s call it “PhutureCamdenRiversharks.”

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      1. Of course I’m with you on Duffy, but I do find it a bit curious that (1) he debuted in the GCL rather than Williamsport, and (2) he repeated rookie league after a solid debut. Not that it would have made him a real prospect, at least probably not, but that seems odd. Was he injured? He did only have 148 PA his second season.

        Then he gets triple jumped to start the season this year.

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    3. I love Gillies. A few guys were beating me up because I wanted him ranked ahead of Jiwan James and Colvin…..

      My intent was not to be a Duffy advocate just that a guy his age with the success he is having should get a shot at an age appropriate league/level.

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  12. Ok, so seriously, my opinion is that Murphy is ok to move to AA and it hurts nothing to let him do so. So Ruf to AAA and gets ABs at 1B and DH and eventually maybe in LF some if Brown is promoted. In the meantime, Overbeck and Luna and Orr all get some extra time off to make some ABs for Ruf. Murphy to AA, Duffy to A+, Serritella to LKW and Carmona to WIL. Carmona is outclassing the GCL, and Serritella is outclassing NYPL. Organizationally, IMO, the only thing holding that back is how much value they give Duffy in helping the Lakewood kids and whether they truly think they have enough ABs for Ruf at AAA, considering two of the guys I advocate sitting down a couple times a week are on the 40-man roster right now and need to stay sharp.

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    1. Ruben said “We will never hold a player back if the player above him is deemed not equal in talent.”

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      1. That’s the company line, of course. And they cut a guy like Eric Pettis this spring in favor of guys with lesser results, which may lean towards what Rube says. But the Phils or any org can choose to use an excuse like “he needs more time” at any level to justify not moving someone up if they feel it’s disruptive to the balance of a particular roster, (Lakewood in this case), if it’s detrimental to someone who’s been invested in, (i.e. those guys with big league roster spots or higher draft picks), or if they see nothing of big league value, (in the case of a guy like Duffy – which may or may not be their feeling on Duffy, I don’t know).

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      1. I watched the game last night on Milb.com. I hope I am wrong, but he didn’t look anything like a major league pitcher. FB 86-88 doesn’t often play well up in the bigs. His command/control wasn’t good either. Based on the numbers, he deserves a shot, but I’m not expecting anything from him. I’m more interested in seeing how Rosenberg transitions into being a starter again.

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        1. Yes, we know his stuff is weak. But he’s been good all year in AA/AAA. if he can be a decent #5 pitcher, that’s valuable too.

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        2. Yeah, I hate to say it, but I agree with this assessment. This is why scouting and stats go hand in hand. The observer in me finds it difficult to believe that Cloyd can be anything in the big leagues but a mid-inning mop up guy. Unfortunately, there is definitely a type of righty pitcher that can dominate in AAA but gets eaten alive in the big leagues. Cloyd is that type of pitcher. If he were a lefty or threw a specialty pitch (devastating splitter, knuckle/curve) I might feel differently. I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think so.

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        3. JMB, he may not have over powering stuff but his ball has late movement and he throws strikes. He also knows how to pitch instead of trying to throw the ball by every batter. I see him as a potential #5 starter in Philadelphia who can give you six reliable inniings.

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  17. Our GCL kids couldn’t even get a hit off an 27 year old guy named Joba Chamberlain. But they smacked around the next guy and he’s nearly 22. Cozens with an RBI double. Manaure is back on the mound (that sentence sounds so inappropriate).

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        1. LOL … on serious not is Manaure someone to keep an eye on? Is 20 considered age appropriate for GCL?

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          1. 20 is old for the GCL, but not crazy old. If he continues to do well throughout the year, he’ll probably be an option for LWD to start next year.

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          2. Average age for the league is 19.7, so he’s oldish, but he is only in his second pro year, so developmentally, he may be behind for one reason or another. A stateside debut anywhere other than the GCL for a guy with one only one pro season, (and that mostly in the bullpen in the VSL), seems like a stretch, so I don’t think you ding him for that.

            I’m keeping an eye on him. He has good peripherals so far. And he was given the opening day start, which I think shows the org likes him. We’ll see.

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          3. It’s old for the GCL but not so old that he becomes a non-prospect. His numbers are pretty good so that’s encouraging. A lot of the hitters he’s facing will be 18 and 19 year olds, so if he keeps having success it wouldn’t surprise me if they bump him to Williamsport this year.

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  18. Anybody think Cesar Hernandez could be a hot streak away from getting a promotion to AAA? The Phillies don’t seem to place much value in promoting guys from Reading to LHV but I’d be curious to see how he handles it. His numbers aren’t fantastic in AA but he had a slow start in April and he’s hit well over .300 with an OPS over .800 since the start of May.

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    1. I think he has certainly played well enough to earn it, I just think it likely will not happen for any of the Reading prospects. Reading is in a battle for the playoffs, and they might want to have these guys experience that. As you said, AA vs AAA isn’t really that huge of a jump. He also isn’t old for AA (actually a bit young), and will be young for AAA come next Spring.

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      1. Isn’t LHV also in a playoff race? I think enough guys have gone from AA to AAA and failed to put the notion that there’s not significant difference between them to bed. Maybe it’s the smallest jump, but it’s a jump. I just think the Phillies don’t see it that way. I agree that it’s not a pressing matter because of his age though, like maybe Ruf’s potential promotion would be.

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      1. Reading wasn’t in the playoff picture last year so it’s easier to move a prospect like Galvis up last year to experience the playoff experience. With Reading still in the playoff hunt they’re not going to give up a prospect to move him up until Reading is eliminated. I would tend to think that’s the way the system goes. Chris Duffy hitting like he is is making it easier to pitch around him which is allowing other players to see better pitches so having a guy who can maintain success will allow the rest of the team to improve which it has.

        Look at Jim Murphy the guy was in Lakewood for AT LEAST 2 season maybe more I just know he was there for 2 years and he hit well enough to advance but they left him there in order to allow kids to see better pitches around him.

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        1. Well Murphy did get a shot at Clearwater in 2010 and did poorly, so the next year he started in Lakewood again. If he put up these numbers his first time in Clearwater he may have been advanced to at least AA by now.

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        2. I think very, very few decisions on prospects are made based on whether the prospect’s current team is in a playoff hunt. The only (and I mean THE ONLY) reason to refuse to advance a prospect due to his current team’s position in the standings is if you have some overwhelming need to test the player in pressure situation (perhaps you might also wait a day or two if the prospect was about to play an important series or game – but no more than, say, a few days or a week). Other than that, the minor league team’s standing is, and should be, entirely irrelevant and wholely subsidiary to the prospect’s development.

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          1. They’ve absolutely waited on playoffs to move prospects up in the past. I can imagine there are positives to putting these prospects through that type of stretch-run. There is not much, if any, harm in leaving a prospect at a level they are performing well at a month longer.

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            1. I think if it’s close, they really don’t care much about the prospect, or the prospect may benefit from the situation, they may do it. But if they think it’s time to move the prospect, they will do it.

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    1. He is nursing a sore hamstring. Poor guy can’t catch a break. Dare I say break or he may end up on the DL

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  21. How about Austin wright! More of that please. And manaure was awesome too, hopefully he can get a few innings in the NYPL before the season is out.

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