Box Score Recap 7-11-2012

Box Score Recap

Big walk-off win for the Eastern League Eastern Division last night.  That team’s really got a chance to go somewhere.

AAA ASG  EL ASG  CLR  LKW  WIL  GCL  DSL  VSL

150 thoughts on “Box Score Recap 7-11-2012”

  1. Another nice perform from Manaure Martinez. It is interesting to compare his current GCL stats to last year’s VSL stats since he has about the same number of innings. I know, I know- VERY small sample but still nice to see a big improvement in HIts and HR’s allowed, plus a few less walks. Could have something to do with starting vs relieving. Anyone know how to pronounce his first name -looks like manure, but hopefully isn’t.

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    2. In another thread, people were speculating something like man-OW-ray. I really don’t know.

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      1. That’s likely the correct pronunciation. In Spanish you usually pronounce every letter in a word.

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        1. My best guess would be Mah-Nah-ooh-reh with the accent on ooh but i am by no means a spanish expert, although i did ok in college.

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          1. Yeah,, that’s the phonetic translation for English speakers, with the idea that, in Spanish, not every letter is pronounced, but when vowels abut each other they blend into one sound as in a schwa . So, after you get the “ah” sounds up against the “oo” you get an “ah-oo” sound there, so whatever that is sounded out to the speaker, I got it as more of an “oo” sound, so I would say “Mahn-oo- ray” with the beginnings of an “ah” sound before the “oo”.

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  2. Lakewood offense has been much improved since Ryan Howard visited. I read where he really impressed upon the team how to play every game the right way. Sorry if this was mentioned previously.

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  4. zach collier, tyson gillies, kelly dugan, larry green , dom brown, dylan cozens, serritella…….. getting it done….

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  6. Lakewood really has turned it around the past month or so. Nice to see Altherr get three walks, Franko really looks like he’s putting things together, and Dugan is back on the radar.

    And at WPT, two more hits for Larry Greene. The power still hasn’t shown up, but it will. Meanwhile, he’s consistently getting hits and drawing walks. Hopefully his singles are nice solid line drives.

    And going even further down to the GCL, Cozens is looking like he’s an exciting prospect. Another double, walk and his fifth steal. It’s interesting to see that he has good speed for someone his size. I’m guessing he might have athleticism similar to Michael Taylor

    – Jeff

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    1. I have very little concerns with LG because he is drawing walks and has a very strong build that should produce power. He is drawing walks and isn’t striking out too much. Most of the hits I’ve either watched on Milb, or listened to during their radio broadcast, appear to be ground ball hits. Most of the outs seem to be hit on the ground too. Not a big deal, however, this soon into his career.

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    2. Altherr has had a quietly productive year making small improvements across the board. He is pretty close to Dugan now. A little more speed and defense with a little less power. Both are still in the back end of our top 30 IMO, but have each made a little progress to be interesting. While a Leandro Castro does a few things well, they appear to be a little more well rounded as prospects.

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  7. Small sample size, but 2012 drafted bats (Cozens, Green, Serritella and Pullin) all have OBPs over .400 in the early going.

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    1. I’m sure next year will temper my expectations, but it sure seems the phillies might have a bumper crop in position players from the last 2 drafts. Gut feeling (with the red pinstripe goggles on) says there are atleast 3-4 position players who will become regular starters or better in MLB. If we can pull 2 all-stars and 4 regulars from these two drafts it would be a great sign of things to come. OBP probably have one of the highest corrilations to sucess in the game of any simple stat certainly more then SLG and AVE.

      More likely, we’ll end up with 1 all-star and 2 regulars… but alas, i am a phillies fan after all.

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  8. Short season stars:
    Larry Greene jr (19 yrs) has the highest OBP of any player under 21 in the NYPenn league.
    Dylan Cozens (18yrs) the highest OPS in the GCL.
    Chris Serritella has the 2nd highest OPS in the NYPenn league.
    Carlos Tocci (16yrs) batting .300 in GCL.

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    1. I got a chance to watch his inning on Milb.com and wasn’t impressed. Caveat– an obviously small sample size.

      He looked to be a nibbler. Announcers reported FB 89-91, and that he throws 4 pitches (curve, change, something else). Curve was hit best pitch, got Wil Myers to swing threw a couple and get him 0-2 before he caught too much of the plate and gave up a single. Coincidentally, the AB to Myers was the only one where he didn’t fall behind the batter, and he often went 2-0, missing 6inches outside on almost every first pitch fastball.

      None of the hits were really crushed, but overall his command wasn’t that sharp. I’d put an upside comp as Paul Byrd.

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  10. It appears we have some position guys drafted the past two years that can play in the system, finally. The tricky part will be how to bridge the gap sufficiently in order to compete and then phase in some of these guys. Gotta love Serritella, Cozens, Greene, Quinn, Walding, etc.

    Also, good to see Gillies, Brown, and Collier back on track.

    I am for blowing up the entire outfield and starting over out there. It would be huge for Gillies and Brown to have a good 2nd half to make that feasible.

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    1. Honestly, unless they go 9 for their next 10 or better I want dominic starting in philly for pretty much the rest of the season. Charlies preferances be damned.

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      1. Hopefully Dom rides this momentum into LHV and makes himself impossible to ignore. I think they trade Pierre for a bag of balls in the next few weeks and he’s the regular LF by Aug. 1.

        I wouldn’t mind seeing some aggressive promotion of Gillies as well. Yes, he’s lost a ton of time to injuries, but he’s got more than 1,300 plate appearances in professional ball. I’d push him up to LHV.

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        1. Since we’re talking about the Phillies, it’s likely that Brown will be the one traded for a bag of balls (or more likely, a mediocre 33 year old reliever so they can “shore up the bullpen for their playoff run”)

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        2. I think that’s a fine plan. Get Dom some at bats and get him up to the big leagues by early to mid August. As soon as Gillies is steaming, let him play a week or two in Reading and call him up to LHV. He’s going to surprise some people – Gillies has a ton of ability and he’s got the drive and moxie of a winner. I am convinced that, by sometime next year (May or June), he could be, at worst, a 4th outfielder in the big leagues.

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          1. I like Gillies too, but the guy has played all of 70 games at the AA level spread out over 2 years, and his numbers in those games have been so-so. I would be absolutely thrilled if he managed to go back to Reading and stay on the field for the rest of the season. Then, if all goes well, he starts in center for Lehigh Valley next year.

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  12. i agree with you Supra98x. Brown’s approach at the plate is better than Pence’s and I know he is a butcher in the outfield, but is he worse than Pence??? I believe the guy has big upside offensively, if he can stay healthy and get his feet on the ground at the Major League Level.

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    1. Well that’s the question isn’t it… which outfield position do you put him in? I agree that balls are likely easier to read in center due to the lack of “slicing” (or atleast that’s how I felt playing in HS… So the question is do you put him in center and move Vic to right and pence to left? Do you hope for a trade or benching of pierre and put him in left where he’s struggled?

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      1. I don’t think you teach him CF at the major league level, unless he feels more comfortable at CF. I think its likely that you will see Brown in AAA until the trade deadline, and that at least Pierre gets moved.

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        1. I don’t think Phillies pitchers would be all that thrilled with replacing a gold glove CF with Brown. Come August, I think we’ll see Brown in LF and Pence in RF, with whomever survives the selloff — Victorino? Pierre? Pridie/Mayberry? — manning CF.

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          1. Agreed, but with the year all but done, would it really matter? Brown has the arm and raw speed for any outfield position, the question is where can the maximise his talents and minimize his flaws… If that’s CF then great, becuase his bat certainly plays WAYYYY up there. We can worry about next season (when there really is something to lose by playing him in CF) after the second half of this season is over.

            From anyones perspective… phillies pitchers included, baring a remarkable and IMMEDIATE turn around, the rest of this year only has 1 purpose… improving the team for next year. If that’s by D. Brown playing center, then he plays center. I’m not suggesting the team “tank”, I’m just suggesting they develop the talent they so desperately need for next years team.

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          3. Who cares how they feel? Besides, it’s not like Shane is the best route runner/etc. His speed is the reason he’s a good outfielder.

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    2. My fear with Brown is his durability and speed in which he recovers from injuries. I have no doubt his bat will do well at the next level but can he stay on the field to me is the biggest question.

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      1. His injuries have been pretty concerning thus far… one point about that though, they’ve been more “fluky” injuries rather then chronic. They could literally stop at any point and I wouldn’t be suprised (vice versa, they could continue until his career ends and I would be equally unsuprised). That said, i’m not worried about his recovery speed, thus far it’s been just fine.

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  13. Hiciano continues to look pretty good in the DSL. .336/.397/.500, K% of 10.3% in 136 PAs. Still 18. And Marte looks like he might have something, considering he is 17.

    In the VSL Herrera is hitting well and is still 18, though it’s his second go round and he looks limited to 1B. Zorrilla and Rojo look ok in the early going for younger guys (Zorrilla is 17, Rojo is 18).

    Thanks to andyb for turning me on to these guys.

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    1. Boston… I honestly don’t even look at the DSL VSL… partly because I have a really hard time valuing these prospects… It’s like when a player hits .400 in high school… what exactly does that mean? Like those numbers you just showed me look exceptional, and while I don’t think he’ll be ranked in our top 10 prospects, he could be, and I wouldn’t be able to judge him appropriately.

      Maybe you can help me out with this… A position player in the DSL, to be considered a top 200 MLB prospect, what kind of numbers would he have to put up? Same for VSL? (or is the DSL VSL considered equal talent wise?) And also, along those lines, how does the level of talent in the DSL/VSL compare to competitive high schools in California? Or is it closer to a college team like Stanford? Would you put a 17/18 year olds performance in the VSL/DSL as equivalent to equal stats of an 18/19 year old in Williamsport?

      I guess the short of it is I just don’t understand those two leagues.

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      1. FWIW the DSL is much closer to GCL when looking at stats and level of competition.

        Here is the rub on your second paragraph question: a top 200 prospect is unlikely to be in these complex leagues and certainly not by the time they are 18. Teams want their top prospects to play at their spring training complexes in FL or AZ. What we more often get are raw prospects that might be fringe top 20 on a single team’s prospect list. Those guys should have a 750-850 OPS and be age 18 or less. If they are 19 they better be putting up a 900 OPS (relative to position of course) if they are going to be considered a top prospect.

        Think of the DSL as a half step below GCL. VSL is a full step below these days because of the lack of competition. I don’t think Deiber Olivera is much of a prospect unfortunately even though he is hitting over .400. VSL might be closer to an all star HS summer league than any organized league. DSL would be more like a good college summer league like Cape Cod.

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        1. Which is part of the reason you should temper expectations when you see a guy left in the DSL for 2-3 years, such as Astudillo.

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        2. Thanks, that explanation helps. 1 question are all of the players on the roster property of the Phillies or is the team just “sponsored” by the Phillies.

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        3. Thanks Andy. My take away there is I’m correct to ignore the VSL, whereas the DSL might be worthy of a cursery glace every now and then.

          If I catch a 17 or 18 year old in the DSL hitting 1.000 OPS at catcher I should take notice! 🙂

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          1. In general yes. But I would also say we should ignore nothing. If Tocci were back in the DSL this year and hitting .300 with good peripherals at age 16 it would be worth noticing. I don’t totally dismiss Astudillo either. Last year he hit .361 with almost no strikeouts being a little old for the VSL. Now he is still playing well though a little old for GCL. The big change is that he is back playing catcher. If he can stay there defensively he has a glimmer of prospect status. Of course he needs to keep hitting and maybe jump to Lakewood next year. His year in the VSL showed he could hit at that level of competition and that is something. I am a data guy. The more data the better. Even if the data does not prove much, it is better than no data.

            Your last sentence is what we all saw out of Valle in the DSL at age 16. A bunch of us took notice and now we have a real prospect.

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            1. You can’t ignore the DSL and VSL players, but I ignore their stats almost entirely. It’s worth noting though the past rosters of the GCL Phillies and how few of those players even became prospects.

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    1. Don’t you wish you had Pancho’s 1958 Topps basball card where they spelled his name wrong?

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    2. I believe Baseball Reference would indicate if they were related, haven’t seen that.

      The 50’s – 60’s Pancho Herrera was named Juan Francisco Herrera. He was nick-named Pancho because Pancho is a nick-name for Francisco. So, they could call the modern day Francisco Herrera, Pancho also.

      Francisco Herrera is a widely used name in Latin America, being held by famous artists and others in the past and stuff.

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    1. 11 year difference between the 2 starting pitchers. Zach Minor is pitching today for the GCL Tigers.

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  17. why have the Phillies drafting philosophy just paying off now like did they change their approach or are they just getting lucky. I think its Ed Wade

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    2. Yeah, sure, this is all Ed Wade’s idea. In related news, Ed Wade will be receiving the Nobel Prize for Physics this year.

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      1. No honestly think about it who drafted Rollins, Howard, Utley and Hamels. and since then what young top prospects ore core prospects have come up through our system science he left

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        1. Wade wasn’t here for the 2011 draft, where much of the young short season talent came from.

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        3. The scouting director at the time was responsible for all of those picks, not Wade. I believe it was Arbuckle.

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          3. Oh, you were in the room? I believe the responsibility for alot of those picks came from the MLB team having a poor enough won-lost record to be able to draft them.

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            1. IT IS A CONFERENCE DISCUSSION BETWEEN ALL MANAGERIAL PERSONNEL IN THAT DEPARTMENT ….LIKE ALL BUSINESS TRANSACTIONS/DEALINGS IN THE REAL WORLD. EVERYONE HAS THEIR WORD ADN SAY OR OPINION…THEN GM DECIDES AND MAKES THE DECISION.

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            2. No Mr. Sarcastic Pants, nor did I insinuate such a thing.

              It is well-known that Scouting Directors run each team’s drafts. BA talks about it, KG talks about it, KLaw talks about it, and all the quotes in the papers are from the Scouting Directors. GMs get involved with the final vetting of the first round pick.

              Regarding your comment about what pick the Phils’ had, you are right that picking higher gets you access to better players. however of those four listed, only Utley and Hamels were first-rounders, so the GM should get zero credit for the drafting of Rollins (2nd round) and Howard (5th round).

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        1. To be honest, we haven’t had a whole lot of time with Amaro as GM, so for all we know this could be a direct result of him. Further, given the small sample size with the current staff, it’s impossible to say if this is a philosophy change at all for them, perhaps it’s as simple as Amaro realizing his core is on it’s way out a little later then most of us here would have liked. Above all, the last 2 years, the phillies have made a fairly sizeable total investment in prospects, be it from the draft or the international market. This year alone they’re at about 6 1/2 million (reports are of 2+ mil int. and 4+ mil draft). That’s more then most years, hands down, and we lost a pick for signing Paps.

          Looking at the draft these last two years, they focused heavily on position players. So the performances we’re seeing are a product of that heavy investment. I would also point out that up until the recent trades for Pence/Halladay/Lee we had a very good system, and i’m damn sure if you put all those prospects back on our minor league roster, we would be ranked right around 6 in MLB minor league systems if not higher. You can’t possibly give Wade, who was only recently hired in an advisory role credit for all of that, he isn’t even a decision maker at this point.

          Ok, I’m done.

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          1. good point he only been here for a year and we did trade away all of our top prospects so yeah that makes more sense.

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          2. They increased their spending because they are thin in the syatem. Ed Wade was the answer on WIP the other day. Who would you like to ban? or somethin like that. Great answer.

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        2. GM’s don’t draft. They hire people to do that. They have input in like…the first 3 rounds.

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        3. It’s a little easier to draft when you are drafting high all the time. Is Mike Rizzo a great GM because he picked Strasburg and Harper?

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  18. Jason Parks at BP on Bonilla:

    He has bat-missing stuff, so I hope the immaturity that caused the late scratch from the game was just an isolated incident and not indicative of his approach. He has legit major league potential, possibly as a frontline setup man or second-division closer.

    Hopefully we get to see that potential soon rather than later.

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  21. Everyone talks about Brown being a “butcher” in the outfield, which is simply not true. I have seen him play in LHV numerous times before he was injured and he did a pretty good job (both in LF and in CF), not a gold glover but did well, after all this is the same team that has had such defensive wizards in the outfield as the bull, inky, Burrell, and Ibanez. Also, let’s not forget that when he was a RF a few years ago coming through the system he was a 5 tool player (which includes his defense in those tools). He had a rough stretch when he switched to LF initially last year and the beginning of this year however, he has gotten much better as of late. It is simply lazy for fans to just parrot the same tired line that he is a butcher in the field. Watch some of his recent games before putting him in the same league as some of our other less then adequate fielding OF of the past. He has gotten better and continues to improve.

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    1. I like hearing a positive report, and I openly admit, I don’t have the time to watch him at LHV. In my heart of hearts I hope his D is better and I look forward to seeing it. And I also agree with you that reports of his defensive demise have been somewhat over-played.

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    2. Jay, we all saw him play the OF in Philly. It was not pretty. Also, as he was coming up a lot of people said he took poor routes in the OF, so I don’t think anyone said he was a great fielder.

      I do think that people said he had the tools to be a good fielder in that he is speedy and has a pretty good arm. I also think that he can improve his defense with more practice. Count me as one who wants to see him learning on the job in the majors for the second half with Pierre traded.

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    1. This certainly does say something about the level of pitching in the GCL. That said, great to see Dom getting his mojo back.

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      1. Dom Brown will be top 10 in doubles for the GCL by the end of today … after only three games.

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          1. +1 I laughed out-loud… his BABIP is unsustainable, he sucks, trade him for a bag of balls!

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  23. it’s nice to see Jiondido Tromp get some AB’s in the GCL, we should trade him to Miami for a bucket of baseballs, some pine tar, and a rosin bag just so we can see Jiondido and Giancarlo hit 3 and 4 in the lineup

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    1. how long til he’s back? – eta?-

      btw – hamels – did the same with his hand…he turned ok – i’d say

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  27. With D. Brown’s second 3/4 performance today, with a walk this time (i know, jumping the gun) … when does he move up, and where does he move up to? AA? AAA? or do they move him to clearwater first?

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  28. So, since we’re all thinking about rankings, where does Lisalverto Bonilla’s rank on our all-time most idiotic prospect injuries list? I’m thinking that when you combine way the injury occurred, the fact that it required surgery, and the fact that it happened when he was traveling the the friggin’ all star game where the entire national media was present… I’m thinking Top 5. It’s not Calton Loewer falling out of a tree, but it’s up there.

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        1. I heard Bonilla fractured his thumb and Tocci’s nether regions with the same punch. That Tocci is one tough nut, or at least has one.

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  30. Doc Holiday did not look ready to be activated based on his performance tonight. He was up with all his pitches and only topped out at 90 once.

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    1. Ok… it’s been a couple years now people. It’s MATT Holiday and Roy “Doc” HALLADAY. And it’s his first time pitching in a while, he’ll get back to where he usually is soon enough.

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      1. Well, by comparison, when he was pitching this spring, his velocity was really low – between 85-88, rarely getting close to 90. Hopefully, he was being careful and was just trying to get his work in. Although we’d all like to see him throwing 90-94 like the old Roy (he used sit around 92-94, touching 95 or 96, on rare occasion), this start is not necessarily inconsistent with him ultimately bringing his velocity up a few notches.

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  31. Valle now with more HR than BB for the year. Don’t usually see that happen beyond maybe the first few weeks of a season.

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  32. Has Rupp replaced him as top catching prospect this year? Rupp was best defensive catcher in system before this year and is now improved his hitting.

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    2. I think Rupp has upped his own stock, but definitely hasn’t surpassed Valle. Remember Valle is almost 2 years younger and at a higher level than Rupp.

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    4. I know it seems odd, but if Rupp finishes the year well, he could go to AA next year with the idea that he’d spend a year there and then jump to the majors because his defense is advanced and he has a little pop – essentially an ideal back-up catcher. If he becomes more than that, it’s a bonus. Valle, in my view, should be jumped to AAA next year and should probably stay there for a couple of years with the goal that he would utlimately be developed as the starting catcher for the Phillies. There are certain players that really benefit from mutiple years in AAA, including Carlos Ruiz and Jorge Posada, who spent three years in AAA.

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  33. If you read the commentary on the prospects in the system, the Phils’ own seloves think that Rupp is the best catcher in the system. Praiseworthy because of his defensive skills and because he could launch HRs upon occasion. IMO, that may be true but it also may be a message to Valle to work on his own defense and game.

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    1. Read that article. Doesn’t say that. Joe Jordan said that Rupp was best catcher in system, meaning defense only. The suggestion that Rupp was the best catching prospect in the system, was from Joe Berkery, staff writer.

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      1. marfis…read and interpret what you want…looks pretty solid to me what Joe Jordan says.

        ‘Rupp, meanwhile, has emerged as the team’s top catching prospect, Jordan said. Sebastian Valle got all the headlines after an outstanding year in Clearwater last season. This year, with Valle struggling at Reading and Rupp’s vastly improved defense, big Cameron (and we mean 6-1, 240 big) is getting a look. “Although his offensives numbers aren’t great as far as batting average (.253), he’s hit some home runs (eight) and he’s been as good a catcher as we’ve had in our system this year,” Jordan said. “As good as he was defensively last year, he’s even better this season. You break it down defensively, he’s been our best catcher in the minor leagues this year.

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        1. The “emerged as to catching prospect” was the writers INTERPRETATION of what Jordan said. The acutal quote from Jordan spoke to defense only … the last line says it above

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        2. Yeah, there is no quotation mark where you put it, so it is not a “Jordan ” quote. If it was it would not say “Jordan said”. That was Joe Berkery’s interpretation of what Jordan said (such as best catching prospect).. The actual Jordan quote is mostly concerning defensive prowess as in “best catcher”.

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          1. I think marfis is correct, but I also HOPE that he is correct, because if the Phillies’ brass really thinks Rupp is the better prospect, that means one of two things, the first bad and the second worse: either Valle is a much lesser prospect than we thought, or Jordan has rather poor judgment. But again, most likely neither is true, and the writer just interpreted what Jordan said.

            That said, Valle’s BB rate is now even lower than last year’s rate. I know marfis doesn’t think that BB rates matter, but he is extremely unlikely to be more than a back up at best unless he can improve his BB rate.

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          2. Whatever marfis, believe what you want to believe……..but when a writer writes it…it gets clearance through the source who trusts that was is reported and written is correct….or he gets no other interviews…that is the way it normally works in journalism.

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            1. The writer hasn’t burned Jordan. He’s writing sloppily. He’s given the possible interpretation that Jordan thinks Rupp is the better prospect when he’s saying Rupp is the better receiver/thrower/all-around defender. But you’re assuming an awful lot about the context when the quotes Jordan gives are quite clear.

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            2. I don’t know if it works differently for sports journalism, but generally if a source requests to see an article before it’s printed, that request is denied. Exceptions can be made, but in this case it seems very possible that the “best prospect” part was the writer’s interpretation.

              Just using logic, how many teams would have a 24 year old at a lower level than a 22 year old if the older guys is thought of as the better prospect? Valle has 2 years to advance his defense to the point where Rupp’s is now and will probably be better with the bat at that point too.

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    2. Meh … It doesn’t matter too much to me which they feel is the top prospect. The best player will ultimately get the gig. If I remember correctly, when Carlos Ruiz and Jason Jaramillo were both farmhands, it was Jaramillo who was viewed as the future heir.

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