Box Score Recap 6-19-2012

Box Score Recap

One of our newest went yard.  They grow up so fast *shed a tiny tear*.

Oh, and Colin Kleven got the win in the SAL all-star game.  No Lakewood hitters made the boxscore.  And I’m pretty sure none made the roster.  Which seems about right.

On a side note, commenters, please try to keep the tone civil.  There’s no reason for name calling.  The people you think are morons probably aren’t coming back to check what you think about them anyway.  And if it’s personal between two regulars, exchange email addresses and have at it.

LV  REA  CLR  LKW SAL A-S Game  WIL  GCL  DSL  VSL

 

125 thoughts on “Box Score Recap 6-19-2012”

  3. Elarton has fallen apart. there was a time I thought he’d be the next starter called up. Not any more. Cloyd is the only possibility right now.

    Best hitting line would have to Quinn (2 -5 with a SB) or Cozens (2 – 4 with a HR and 3RBIs). cozens did have an error though.

    Best pitching line would be Ulises Joaquin in the GCL with 5 IP, 3 H, 0 ER and 3 Ks. He’s a 20 year old 5′!!” rightly out of the DR. Ferancibel Alejo in the DSL was also a very nice line. The 19 year old lefty, pitched 8 innigs with 4 hits, 1 run and 4 Ks.

    The GCL team has only 8 hits in 2 games but the Phillies pitchers have struck out 19 with 4 BBs. Let’s hope they get it going although a lot of these guys right now are from the latin leagues. As more new signees show up, we should see some action.

    Larry Greene had a hit. That was nice but 4 Ks in 8 ABs? It’s the epitome of small sample sizes but it is what it is. I guess Logan Moore would be considered far worse. He has 3 Ks and a BB in 4 plate appearances.

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    1. Um, I realize you get this, but 4 Ks in 8 AB is to be expected from a guy who has yet to play his third professional game. Let’s try not to draw any broad conclusions until, oh, shall we say … this time next year.

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  4. I’m getting very excited about Quinn, from all reports he has havoc-reaking speed on the basepaths

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    1. I was listening to some of the game on the radio and for the run Quinn scored, they had him picked off first but the throw was bobbled and Quinn was able to get to 2nd under the tag. Announcers from the opposing team were saying they have to keep him from getting on base as his speed would cause all kinds of problems. Looking forward to seeing how the year goes for him.

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  5. Cody Asche is pretty amazing – a veritable hitting metronome. I am becoming a believer. It’s not easy, even as a college player, to skip a level and hit like this in the Florida State League, a notorious pitcher’s league. If his power develops as projected and his defense is as competent as the informal reports suggest, you are looking at a very attractive player who is coming of age at a time when the team desperately could use him for all sorts of reasons, not the least of which is cost containment (which would allow the team to fill other needs through free agency). I am not player development expert, but if the only hitch in his game is currently power, I say, forget about that and promote him anyway. If he hits as well in AA as he has in Clearwater, then you very may well be looking at a player who could be called up to the Phillies during the season in 2013. But first things first, let’s see if he can put up similar numbers in AA.

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    1. Many players have seen doubles power transform into HR power as they move from CLW to Reading. For a guy with ‘power potential’ I think Reading provides the first true view.

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      1. Agreed, my thinking exactly. Players generally see their power spike in Reading. For Asche, given his contact skills, the jump might be especially notable.

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        1. Asche is getting a world of experience this year, including the chance to play a handful of games with Thome and Utley, and probably Howard in another week or two. Looks like we might have something here but I wouldn’t be disappointed if they keep him at Clearwater for another month or so. 2013 might be a bit of stretch, save for a rosters extending call-up

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    3. The more Asche plays the more I believe in his pure hitting tool. But I don’t see the value in promoting him to AA. He was already double jumped coming into this season. I feel the risks outweigh the rewards.

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      2. When someone has a hit tool that’s looking to be a 70+ on the 20/80 scale… If he could just pull average power for his position he could be a great player for the phillies. I am in the “move him to AA” group. But the logic is this:

        Asche was double jumped, and has embarassed the leagues pitching. He’s currently 3rd in the league in hitting and we’re past the half way point in the year. What is there to lose by bumping him up?

        A good comp to Asche is Nick Castellanos. Nick is 1.7 years younger, has showed a similiar hit tool thus far, and their power is nearly identical. Nick was just bumped up to AA where got punched in the mouth. Additionally, as unsustainable as Asche’s BABIP (.390) is, Castellanos’s BABIP in A+ was an outrageous .480 (his AA BABIP is currently a very sustainable .280, hence his significant drop in production). Following that logic, if Castellanos was ready for a promotion, Asche certainly is.

        I want to bump Asche up because players should always be challenged (he’s not being challenged) and I think his confidence is at a good spot. He’s old enough to move quickly, and it would benefit the organization to get a good feel for how close Asche is to being ready. Is he a 2013 call up? 2014? At this point, he’s given us every reason to believe he’s ready for AA. It’s time to bring him up.

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        1. The differences between Castellanos and Asche is that Castellanos had a higher average, more plate discipline, more power. Probably worse defense, I imagine Castellanos may end up a corner outfielder in the bigs.

          Larry talked about some of the weaknesses with Asche. Here’s my concern. What is his offensive game, other than batting average? He has below average plate discipline (three times as many strikeouts as walks), little power (slightly better than Rich Thompson), and I don’t know what his defense is. We know batting averages can be flukish. Given a hundred average hitters, a handful will hit .300 out of pure luck. So if Asche can’t hit .350 all the time, how valuable is he? If he were even hitting .300, he wouldn’t be a notable player.

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          1. I’m not sure plate discipline is something he’s working on (even though his interview said he was all about helping his team). And hopefully his doubles power will translate into something better.

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    4. It’s not the only hitch in his game – plate discipline is also. I know people are sick of hearing this, but it’s true.

      Now, that said, there may be some truth to the excuse that his low BB rate is partly a product of the fact that he is getting so many good pitches to hit. And it’s less of a problem than it would be for a guy with a poor contact rate. But the best hitting prospects generally also have decent to good BB rates even when they are knocking the cover off the ball.

      Don’t get me wrong, I think he is a good prospect with the highest upside of any Phillies position prospect in full season ball (Brown has lost prospect status). Good contact skills, there’s reason to believe the high BABIP is not entirely an illusion, reason to think the power will come, plays third base, apparent plus speed, though there is still some question about that. And if his plate discipline doesn’t improve, he is still a decent prospect, given his contact rate and other factors. B

      ut people hoping to see him be more than just a solid regular in the majors better hope for some better plate discipline. Without it, his upside is Polanco with weaker defense. Not the worst thing in the world, Polanco has had a long and successful career. But people around here are comparing him to David Wright, and he has a LONG way to go to merit that comparison.

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      1. I agree with most everything but your upside comment, but I think one thing Asche does not have is huge upside. Putting a 70 hit tool on him at this point, as a previous poster did, is way premature, but his hit tool is the only one at this point that seems like it may be above average. To me that limits his upside quite a bit. I think he may be the best combination of upside and likelihood of realizing it, but not upside alone.

        In terms of upside, off the top of my head, I would certainly rate Gillies, Franco and Valle, and possibly Collier, Altherr, Dugan, and Hernandez as having higher upside, and I might be missing a couple.

        Otherwise, full agreement

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        1. I was expecting people to think I was being too pessimistic, and instead two comments suggest that if anything I was being too optimistic. Here’s why I think his upside may be higher than you think:

          (1) He does seem to have plus speed;
          (2) There’s reason to think that the power will develop;
          (3) I’m not convinced that his plate discipline won’t get better – sample size works both ways (also, last year, ironically, the one bright spot of his performance was a 9% BB rate).
          (4) The current hitting norms for third basemen are low enough that even if he develops into (say) a .290/.350/.450 player – optimistic, sure, but not impossible – he would be (using this years’s stats) roughly tied for the 5th best hitting third baseman in the majors.

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          1. Careful Larry…you’re going to ruin your reputation if you keep saying nice things. Although, I’m sure there are some folks who will just misinterpret anyway.

            On Asche, I think we can all agree he has been a nice surprise. Another poster compared him to Ray Knight, which I actually kinda like at this point. Much more realistic than David Wright.

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            1. Not much risk of that (“ruining” my reputation). Part of it is my fault (I tend sometimes to be a bit … acerbic), but part of it is a mentality of some on this site who routinely exaggerate Phillies’ prospect’s potentials by a factor of about 3. Several people seem to have convinced themselves that, if only the Phillies’ brass weren’t too stupid to realize it, all it would take to put Asche on course to be the Phillies 2013 third baseman (and the next David Wright) would be an immediate promotion to Reading.

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            2. It’s nice to see that you’re lumping everyone together, Larry. If you are referring to me, I never said that Asche was the next David Wright. He hasn’t shown that type of potential and does not have that trajectory, at least at this time. I said, it’s possible he could be in Philadelphia by 2013 (and I still think it is possible), but let’s see how he does in Reading before we jump to too many conclusions. But I do like him for many of the reasons you actually pointed out and realize that he has not hit for good power yet and, at least this year, his plate discipline has been only fair (to give the guy some credit, he has hit everything in sight and, recently, he has started to take more walks). I’m not a player development expert, but it seems to me that, if his fielding is solid, it might be time to see what he can do in Reading, particularly while his confidence is up.

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            3. Catch, come on, you know I don’t feel that way about you. I think it’s obvious the posters I’m talking about.

              To be clear, I don’t think it’s crazy to suggest that he should be promoted to Reading. I don’t think he should, but it’s not a crazy suggestion by any means. But dreaming of 2013 .in the majors .(aside from maybe, and even this a long shot, a late season call up) … no.

              Why would you be particularly anxious to rush a guy (best case scenario at this point) who might hit an empty .300 to the majors? Especially since the worst case scenario is that he falls on his face, possibly hurting his development? Even if he gets promoted to Reading this year and keeps his average up, it’s clear that he has a LOT to work on at this point – power (which may be just the right work out routine and time), plate discipline, perhaps his defense (reports on that are sparse), and who knows what else. He’s less than 3 months removed from a sketchy and short A- debut. What’s the rush?

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      2. People may be tired of the plate discipline thing, but it’s been proved right so many times that I can’t believe we’re still debating it. Look at Valle. His batting stats last year were, if anything, more impressive than Asche’s, with better power and a longer track record of success, and people were clamoring for him to be promoting to Reading, where of course he would continue to mash, because Reading is a friendlier park. He finally got there this year, and he’s struggled. Turns out that swinging at everything is not a strategy for sustained success at baseball, unless you are just freakishly talented.

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        1. I do think there is a meaningful difference between a guy like Valle, with a K/BB ratio of 6.4, and Asche, with a K/BB ratio of 2.7 (A+ numbers in both cases), even though Valle’s BB rate was only a little worse.

          But obviously that quibble aside, we are in agreement.

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      3. Physically, Asche being 2/3″ taller then Polanco, has the opportunity to fill out more and become stronger as he ages and the power normally comes with it.

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        1. I agree with that. But “opportunity” and “fill out” are the operative words. It’s crazy to suggest, as several people have, that he could be a candidate for the major league job in 2013. Even 2014 seems optimistic.

          As for the Wright comparison, at the same age Wright was in his second year in the majors; among other things which distinguished him from Asche were a BB% over 10, and an ISO over .200 (with 27 HR – in the majors). They aren’t remotely comparable players.

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          1. I posted the Wright comp with the sole intention of causing an uproar. This has exceeded expectations however. Hehehehe.

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      4. I find these comments laughable. The amount of walks in isolation means nothing. Over a 162 game season, he projects to have 232 hits and 95 strikeouts. Who cares how many walks he has if he has 232 hits? 95 strikeouts is high for a hitter without high power numbers. But it is not a bad sign for a minor leaguer in his first full season who projects to hit for more power in the future. It’s less than half of an MLB schedule of games, but There much more reasons for optimism than critique as far as I am concerned.

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    1. Busted testicle… everytime I read it or write it, I start walkin’ funny. Reports are he’s back in EST so we might see him once he gets some reps.

      Is anyone surprised that Tromp is batting 3rd? Is he keeping Tocci’s spot, in the lineup, warm?

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    1. That’s going to be annoying if it keeps up. L. Greene’s double and RBI are also listed as “Greene.”

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      1. Worth noting that they’re doing a home and home series. So the scorers would have been different Monday and Tuesday. More likely it’s someone in the milb.com offices.

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    3. My statement would be to stop making errors but I’m sure everything below the boxscore will only say “Greene”. It will be interestig if they both have big hitting days on the same day. the boxscore might read Greene 2 HRs; Greene 2 HRs, Greene 4 RBIs,; Greene 2 RBIs. If this happens, I won’t be complaining.

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  8. It would really help the Phillies in a couple of years if Asche is a legit prospect. It is nice to see a college INF prospect actually hit well after being drafted by the Phils.

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      1. Agreed. It was always something I wanted them to do a bit more of in the first 10 rounds. Selectively of course. In the last 2 drafts they have added Matinez, Asche, Serritella, Perkins, Zach Taylor, and possibly Carmona based on reading between the lines on reported Tweets to him.

        I am intrigued.

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  9. yeah why challenge asche, they have so many other great infielders to choose from? martinez, fontonet. orr, let the kid go to williamsport and start again, he is under 25 we cant move him too quickly/

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    1. Huh? Asche is with Clearwater. He jumped low A Lakewood after playing at Williamsport (and struggling with the bat) last season.

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    2. Cool. His Mom commented last year when he was signed. Somebody get in touch with her to do a post-game interview.

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          1. Yes it is his mom 🙂 he went 2-3 with a double,single, walk and strike out. Not too bad for his pro debut !! I took some pics I will be able to show them later when we make it home. Phillies lost sadly due to some costly infield errors and wild

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            4. That’s great Mrs. Knight. I know it must be difficult to fathom, but there are literally hundreds, perhaps thousands, of folks who will follow what your son and others do on a daily basis and we come from all walks of life. We just happen to be addicted to Phillies baseball and the minors in particular. Best of luck to your young man – we are rooting for him!

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            6. What Brad’s trying to say is there’s one guy on here that if your son has a good day, he’ll say it was due to an unsustainably high BABIP and if he has a bad day he’ll say that is the norm. Try to ignore him and focus on all the other positives. Like catch said above, there are tons of us rooting your son on and wish him all the best, myself included. Must be a very exciting time for him and your family. Congrats, and welcome to the greatest sports city in the world.

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            7. We appreciate the good and the bad comments. 🙂 I mean if someone mentions his name, that means someone is talking about him right? Doesn’t always have to be postive because you can have bad days too. Won’t hold it againt ya, I promise.. And you all can call me Kim, not Mrs. Knight. I am going through pictures now and will be posting them on his fan facebook site if you want to see them. http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Johnathan-Knight/235743963130098 . As his family, we are his biggest fans and his biggest critics. 🙂 Thank you for the support for him. We can’t wait to see what is to come for him.

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  12. Cody Asche, a singles hitting third basemen. Oddly, you don’t even see that many. Started by running a search limiting speed and plate discipline, but oddly had a short list even only using isolated slugging as a parameter. Let me share some comparables of this type of player:

    Hall of Famer: Wade Boggs (Extremely far fetched, Boggs had legendary plate discipline)
    All-Star: Carney Lansford, Kevin Seitzer
    Comparable hitter but better glove men: Ken Oberkfell, Terry Pendleton, Toby Harrah
    Fair Comparables: Ray Knight
    Floor: Tom Brookens

    I like the Asche – Knight comparison personally.

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    1. Well, you are comparing the slg pct of a young prospect in an extreme pitchers park to MLB DBs. I don’t think that’s a valid comparison.

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      1. Two points:

        1. I’m looking at groups of players, not making direct statistical comparisons. Really I’m just looking for a general type of player. It’s not a serious science.

        2. You can still compare Cody Asche among his peers, and in that group he has the second lowest ISO on the team (ahead of Edgar Duran). His power is below average even relative to the league. So if you see the power growing as he moves forward, what do you base that on? Maybe it’s scouting or whatever and that’s fine, but it has to be something other than blind faith. Legit question.

        One flaw is that I only looked at starting third basemen. Expanding to players who played third part time in their careers and I see interesting names like Polanco, Dave Magadan, Randy Ready.

        Bottom line is that a singles hitter will always have a starting spot unless he contributes a high on base average, speed, whatever. That should be pretty obvious anyway. But I could definitely see Asche fitting into a 4C role if his skills don’t develop beyond what they are.

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        1. ‘His power is below average even relative to the league. So if you see the power growing as he moves forward, what do you base that on?’…..check out 13 months ago in the .Big 12.

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          1. That’s a fair point. Does Big 12 power translate to the pros? I honestly don’t know the answer, I’m just asking questions to guide the discussion.

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  13. Wow< , Kim you are living every mans dream , to see his kid play pro ball, congradulation and good luck to you and son and family.

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  15. I just want to emphasize that it’s not like Asche does not the ability to hit home runs. About a month or so ago he hit one that went off a banner halfway up the light towers beyond RF at Bright House. Absolute moonshot – haven’t seen anything come close to it, even during MLB batting practice in February March.

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    1. Sorry, should say “it’s not like Asche does not HAVE the ability to hit home runs”

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  16. You know, something occurs to me… There have been a few prospect interviews which are awesome to give us a look into the life of prospects… What about an interview of family (Kim if she’d be game)? I’d be interested, at least.

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  17. according to experts, with a babip
    like asche has, he can’t play, so he isnt a prospect lets more on to real prospects. can you imagine the thrill and excitment kim had today seeing her son on that field. wow what a thrill it had to be,and i went on his facebook. he is so young looking, hope we can get her to share her day with us.

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    1. I will share what ever you would like to know. We have been to a few games of his, (instructional ball, spring training and extended spring training) but nothing like today.. Seeing him get a hit on his first “official” at bat as a professional.. There is nothing like it 🙂 I just loaded pics from today on his facebook. I will try to post others elsewhere. I got a couple of the catcher, the pitcher and a couple other batters as well. Wish it would have been in the stadium however, I would have gotten much better pictures !! 🙂

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    2. roccom, I usually stay away from your comments because of the combination of your friendly enthusiasm and your obvious lack of baseball knowledge & critical thinking skills. But if you’re going to take swipes at other posters, (a) try to at least accurately characterize what others say, and (b) prepare to have your stupidity called out.

      First of all, what the heck BABIP and Asche have to do with the understandable excitement that Kim is showing for her son is beyond me. The irony here is that it is you and anon who are pissing on her parade by dragging in irrelevant crap that won’t mean anything to her.

      No one, least of all me, has said that Asche is not a prospect. He is, and a good one. Some of us have merely pointed out that he isn’t likely the next David Wright, or anywhere near ready for the major leagues, party because his batting average is unsustainable at that level, but also because batting average is only one component of hitting, and he is currently mediocre at best in every other area. Anyone with even a modicum of baseball knowledge – or even basic critical thinking skills – knows that we are right. It’s not even entirely (or even mostly) a matter of BABIP, that’s just one analytically useful way of showing the unsustainability of that kind of batting average.

      You might want to consider stopping commenting until you are ready to contribute without embarrassing yourself with every post.

      (And Catch, if you are reading this, this is the kind of stuff I was talking about in that other comment – and I’m sorry for my imprecision, which seemed to lump you in with these kind of posters, even though that was not my intent.)

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    1. Thanks.

      Interesting that Shreve’s fastball is up to 95 now. I was thinking he was high 80s to low 90s with it. Also kind of a bummer that even though they talked about Bonilla they didn’t say anything about whether or not he’d stay in the ‘pen going forward.

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  19. Larry i forgot more than you will ever know, first rule for me is to look at the player. watch him play, i could care less about your imo dumb stats. if a kid is a three hundred hitter , and can field, when i am on board with him moving up the ladder, but unfourntaly there are posters like you , who only read books, and dont get out and see the kids play.so dont comment on my stupid knowledge, okay? thank you and go back and read your books. but stats dont always tell thinks about a player.doesnt tell you about his heart, baseball knowledge, what kind of park he is playing in,if he has protection in lineup, behind him, if pitchers are not giving him good pitches to hit, lots of stuff you stats dont tell you, kids will force sometimes to impress when they have no one behind that pitchers fear, and please dont put words in my mouth i meant to comment on ashce, didnt know i also couldnt comment on the great excitment kim must have felt, didnt know i needed your permission, guys like you most likely never played the game, and only have there books to go on, so from now on dont read my stupid stuff thank you.

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    1. Baseball has always been a statistical sport, more so then all the other professional sports.
      And people base future projections of players, often times on past performance indicators. And to just brush that aside as being less then trivial would be an error in judgement.

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    2. Seriously? It is 2012 and we’re still having the Statistics vs. Scouting Debate? They’re both an integral part of evaluating a baseball player… to turn your back on them and call them “dumb” because they disprove something that you believe in is ignorance… especially when it’s been proven ON THIS SITE numerous times how stats can accurately predict future success/failure (see Valle).

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      1. If people want to be willfully ignorant, just ignore them I say. What I find is even more hilarious is that citing the stats automatically makes you a “nerd” who only reads books and has no first-hand knowledge of the sport. I love the stats behind baseball, and yes I’m pretty smart (been on scholarship for school since high school, including offers from pretty good colleges). But I’m also a baseball player and I watch baseball all the time (going to another Phillies game on Thursday… the heat should be fun…). So which am I, a nerd who never takes his head out of the books, or am I an irrational fan who doesn’t know the difference between useful statistics and insults? Oh, and heart is great… but heart doesn’t win baseball games by itself (you need talent), and you can’t measure heart, you can only speculate on it. What this means is you saying someone has heart really means, “I like him.” Which is fine. But that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re as good as you think.

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          1. If you could point me to the instances in which I’ve “over value(d) analytics” I’d appreciate it so I could fix that trait about myself. I’ll wait.

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            2. Alright, but you can see how I would take it that way since you responded to me while I was talking about stats (and other things).

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    3. Wow. An adult who ridicules another adult for reading books. A baseball fan who ridicules other baseball fans for analyzing statistics. An advocate for illiteracy I guess.

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  20. i just believe in seeing the kid play over stats. if that is ignorant or dumb, then so be it, guys in san diego have a tough time hitting homeruns , does that make them not a homerun hitter if they played in a fairer park? i saw mike stutes pitch a number of times and said it on here he will pitch in majors long before he was mention, you could see his stuff,his makeup, thats my belief ignorant as it sounds to you, so you keep your stats and i will look at the players to make up my mind, difference of opinion , valle i have never seen yet so I really dont understand your point,and really if you are baseing stats on half a year in reading then wow. so enough of this talk, rather from now on keep my opinions to myself, the only thing i will comment on is draft cause i am really in dark about the money issues,

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    1. There are stats that adjust for park and league factors. You would know that if you didn’t dismiss stats right away.

      Besides, I don’t really have so much a problem with how you evaluate players as I do with how you treat people who do it differently. Watching a player has its place in scouting. So do stats. Using stats does not mean you don’t know about the other aspects of scouting.

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    2. “i just believe in seeing the kid play over stats. if that is ignorant or dumb”

      That’s not. Saying the stats are stupid because you don’t understand them or they disprove your theories about baseball is what’s ignorant and dumb, when they’ve been proven to be useful tools in evaluation.

      “then so be it, guys in san diego have a tough time hitting homeruns , does that make them not a homerun hitter if they played in a fairer park?”

      See park adjusted Stats.

      “valle i have never seen yet so I really dont understand your point,and really if you are baseing stats on half a year in reading then wow.”

      No. I’m basing it on the fact that he’s historically never walked… but people chose to ignore his walk rates because “he was hitting .300.” Batting average is the most useless stat out there. He had a high BABIP and he’s fallen off the face of the Earth Offensively.

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      1. That’s the thing. People here who are using statistics in their arguments are generally using them in response to…other statistics. I mean, complain about the BABIP talk all you want. But batting average is the same thing. It’s a statistic. It’s been around longer, but that doesn’t make it any better a tool. Most people when they come on here and praise a player, they’re using statistics.

        As far as scouting, it’s great when it comes from a point of knowledge. Heart? That’s useless. But if you can evaluate a swing, running ability, arm angles, arm strength and accuracy, that’s all information you really can’t glean from the statistics and it’s incredibly useful.

        And in all honesty, good baseball people will tell you the same thing sabermetrics do, they just don’t express it in numbers.

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        1. Which is why I believe that ignoring one aspect of evaluation completely is pointless. The smart teams (Boston, Oakland, New York) hire more scouts in addition to their use of advanced metrics.

          I just don’t understand why people want to turn their backs to useful information.

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          1. The only people around here who turn their back on useful information are the people ridiculing modern analysis – often the same people, ironically, ridiculing scouting reports. See, for example, Never once on this site have I seen a person advocating statistical analysis and at the same time rejecting scouting wisdom. Not once.

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            1. I’ve gotta support Larry on this. Most of the time I see someone ridiculing a scout (“They see these guys once a year and then make up their mind. Blarg”) it’s the same people who ridicule any use of metrics. Well, other than the metrics they use.

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            3. LarryM….RAJ and the club management now use Sabr info for future decisions, the degree to which it is done is unknown, but he says he uses it to some extent.

              And another thing Mr LarryM…your accusation that I ‘pissed on Ms Knight (Kim’s) parade’ by wishing her son well, is absolutely absurd and off base. Please try to use some form of decorum and discipline and keep personal comments to one self. Thank you.

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  21. Roman Quinn lead off double, advances to third on a ground out (to short), scores on a grounder to first which also induced an errant throw, sending Pointer to second on the play. I just picked up Quinny in my Keepers league

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      1. Yeah, we know he’s fast and that’s the kind of effect speed has. What we need to see is his defense and how he handles the bat. Looking pretty good so far. Hope he keeps it up.

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        1. I liked his defense from what I saw Monday, but that’s one game. The bat will take much longer to evaluate. Because right now, it might just be that the State College Spikes have an awful defensive/pitching team!

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          1. He’s eventually going to have some rough nights with his defense. Two nights in a row now he’s bobbled a routine grounder but recovered to throw out the runner. He’s got a better arm than what he showed in workouts this weekend when he needs to. Made a great play tonight up the middle after the ball bounced off the second-base bag, he fielded the ball on the second base side, spun and threw a seed to first to get the out. He’s going to do some really special things defensively, but I think there’s a good chance he has some rough nights, too.

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    1. Ah, thanks very much for the pictures. It’s hard to tell for sure from pictures, but his swing looks good. Only thing I could say is he might want to transfer his weight a little earlier on to give himself some more power in his swing. But if that’s true, I’m sure the coaches will teach him.

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      1. You are welcome.. They are constantly changing things on it. It will all click one day. He just turned 19, so he is still growing and learning. 🙂 I tried to get some of the new guys pics too, I have all season though to get alot more. I will be posting them on that flickr page.

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        1. I’m sure a lot of us will be frequenting those pictures throughout the year. It’s kind of odd to think that these guys are younger than me now. Wish I could be playing with them. Oh well, best of luck to Jon and all of his teammates, we hope to see him in Philadelphia soon.

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    2. Thank You for the pictures, it is nice to see all of the new guys. Cozens looks like a full grown man among children

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      1. Lol.. I have been a photographer since he began really playing baseball . Since he was 12 I have been on the diamond with him shooting away. It is one of my favorite things in life to do, shoot him playing baseball!!

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  24. kim does he ever talk about the difference in the pitching, and the speed of the game, coming from high school to the pros??

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    1. He has talked about it. He says it is funny how he is now used to the faster pitchers. With where he bats in the lineup, he said he sees alot of changeups and off speed pitches. I know that in Instructional ball last year he faced a guy (can’t remember his name) that was throwing heat. He said he got up to bat, he was thrown a 96 or 98 mph fast ball straight down the middle. We asked him if he saw it and he said nope!! Now, he said that doesn’t seem as fast.
      His walk yesterday, he was at a 0-2 count then battled back to a walk. I think he fouled back 5 balls too. He hasn’t talked about the speed of the game, I do know from a parent perspective watching the game that it is alot like high school speed wise. It depends on the pitching on how fast the game goes. If it is a pitchers duel, it is a fast game,but if they are struggling it is a LONG boring game . I don’t know if that really answered your question I hope it did.

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      1. Yeah, reports before he was drafted say he was very fast for his size. I think the worry is that he might lose the speed over time, some huge guys like Carlos Lee and Adam Dunn were pretty fast in a straight line early in there careers. Anyway it’s good to see him use the wheels while he has them.

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        1. I’m not about to call Larry fast, but he can move. I was as shocked as anyone to see him run tonight. He took off another time and likely had third base stolen but the pitch was fouled off. He gets down the line well. He’s not a clog on the bases. But if he steals near 10 bases, I’d call that about his peak.

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  26. The reason this whole, tired debate is such a joke is that the people with the MOST respect for scouting around here are for the most part ALSO the stat guys. OF COURSE both scouting and statistics matter. I don’t think that once, ever, any of the stat inclined people around here have denied that. Certainly not me.

    Roccom, John from the northeast, and a variety of anons, are mostly just as distainful of scouting as they are of statistical analysis. They tend to make judgments based upon small sample sizes and focus on the wrong metrics – like BA, which is important, but only one compenent of hitting, particulary deceptive in small samples. Nor do they adjust for context and age/level. They are also, by and large, the least respectful posters. Yeah, I can let loose with the insults as well, but almost always in response to abuse from the roccoms and Johns of this world.

    On the subject of “heart,” I wouldn’t use that word for a lot of reasons, but I actually agree that makeup – a better, more accurate & encompassing term – is very important. The problem is that good makeup isn’t usually apparent until well after the fact – that is, not until after the makeup is reflected in statistical accomplishments. (e.g., a guy like Ultley.) That’s especially true for outsiders such as ourselves. So what happens instead? People decide, based on no evidence at all, that the player they like – usually because of a small sample size gaudy BA – has a good makeup. And vice versa – see the disgusting libels aimed at Brown.

    The fact is, the sensible people on this web site, myself included, are simply too nice to these yahoos. It’s time to riducule them for the idiots they are.

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  28. Does anyone think we should go to a forum type setup, rather than a blog? I’m just for anything that would help aid in keeping the bickering to a minimum here.

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    1. James tried that about two years ago and it never really took off. There just isn’t enough discussion to warrant it as the comments are 99% driven by the latest post and not by ongoing in-depth discussions.

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  29. I have said that I wouldnt comment again but larry, if that is suppose to be your intelligent answer , then get the facts right , never have I not looked at age, never have I comment without seeing a player, on his pro potential, if you werent blinded by your, i know it all attitude, you would see my post , i many times I ask people have you seen him, what is his velocity and so on. And if you head wasnt up you?? you would see i really believe not to get excited about prospect until they at least reach reading. imo its a measuing stick, i never played pro ball, but think the jump from high a to double a is really big, and have said it,and to call someone post as idiots, just shows you are a classless fool who thinks only his way is the right way.

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  30. kim thank you so much for your insite on the game, and your sons progress, I hope he makes it,love to see you at the stadium one day, i live three blocks away and will be there, if at all possible to cheer him on, good luck

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