Everyone knows the deal. Coming into spring training, Donald was going to see time at 2B and 3B in the event that Chase Utley or Pedro Feliz wouldn’t be ready for Opening Day. It appears both guys have a shot to be in the opening day lineup, Utley seems a better bet than Feliz. That raises the question, what happens with Donald? He’s hitting .379 this spring, much of it coming after a slow start where he appeared to be pressing a bit. He’s also drawn 6 walks. But if he isn’t looking at full time at bats, what is going to happen to him? I personally think he’s going to be one of the last cuts from the squad and sent to AAA where he’ll play both 2B and 3B, mostly 3B. But have your say here
87 thoughts on “Today’s topic; Jason Donald”
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Phuture Phillies 
A few weeks ago I was into the idea of Donald beginning the season as a big-league reserve, but as the spring wears on I’m more inclined to see him playing third base at AAA every day. He’s the first callup if there’s any injury to Utley, Rollins or Feliz, and if he has a great first half and Feliz struggles, it wouldn’t be a shock to see him up by midseason and taking starts.
In any event, it’s great to see him making it a tougher decision for management.
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Just a matter of time before he’s the everyday 3rd baseman. He’s simply a better hitter than Pedro Feliz.
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If Feliz is ready, then he should be the starter, with Donald getting everyday reps at AAA. Donald gets a midseason call up, and Feliz is a trading deadline deal. Everyone at this website rejoices
– Jeff
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OFF TOPIC:
i saw that stutes and worley might go to AA?
no chance of that, right?
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I don’t think so.
Clearwater.
We’ll start looking at potential assignments next week.
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i think that happ, donald and mayberry will make the team.
regarding donald. charlie plays our bench players a lot. and even if utley and feliz come back, he isn’t going to play them 100% of the game or every game. at least for the first half of the year. i could see him going with 3 players for 2 spots and playing utley 85% of the time for the first half and feliz 70% of the time and donald the rest. the kid is just hitting too well to be sent down. hell, he might sub in for some innings for rollins. he is so versatile. what a great prospect to have on a team!
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If we are speaking strictly of maximizing value, Donald should be traded to a team that needs a starting MLB SS. That is, of course, assuming we can get equvalent value in return.
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I don’t know that anyone is going to overpay for him. The Phillies have talked about his limitations, as they are known to do with their own guys, and if a team isn’t treating him as a legit SS (most won’t), then I doubt we’re going to get good value for him.
I think he’s our 3B next season if he’s not traded at the deadline.
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How has Donald played at 3B so far this spring? How is his defense?
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Why do you say most teams won’t treat him as a legit SS? He’s no Omar Vizquel, but he’s been playing SS from college through AA. I have no stats to say definitively either way, but our friend K-law seems to think that he can be a league average SS right now.
And for those still new to the Moneyball era, a league average SS is more valuable than a league average 3B or 2B.
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JD keeps producing and producing , every level, every challenge and someone wants to trade him . other doubt him
Feliz should stay in Florida for a couple of weeks until the weather warms up and lets see what Donald can do. guessing isnt necessary and all trades are final
Btw what would you get in a trade we dont already have???
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He’ll start in AAA playing SS to maximize his value. If I were in charge, I’d trade Feliz and go with Donald in the big leagues. I’m confident he’s better. I’d also give Marson 50% of the playing time at catcher.
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Seth: but unless you’re spinning Donald to a team that needs a SS and has an MLB-ready 3B prospect for next year, it’s not really a deal that makes sense for the Phils.
Dajafi’s hit it right on the head: he will (and should) play everyday in Lehigh Valley until he’s needed for regular ABs at the big league level. If we didn’t have Dobbs (who will get a decent number of ABs at 3B), and if Rollins and Utley weren’t the kind of guys who play everyday (they are), then it would make sense to keep Donald on the 25-man, where he’d easily rack up 250 or so ABs. But since that’s the situation, he’s better served continuing to hit everyday, fine tuning his ability to play all three infield spots (especially 3B), and being the first guy called up when needed.
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I would like to see him start at AAA as the regular 3B, so he can further prepare as a 3B and be the starter next season or even this season if Feliz continues to struggle at the plate like last year. And some thing off topic, does anybody know what happened to Susdorf, he’s not in camp(at least I didn’t see him today) or on the rosters that are available at camp. I know he was not going to develop into a star, but I saw possibly a Dobbs type talent.
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I was at the game today. Donald has the bat to play in the majors fulltime. There’s no doubt about it. However, he looked very uncomfortable at 3B and I think playing 3B fulltime in AAA will benefit him now and the Phillies next year.
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I’d have him in AAA mostly starting at 3B…which is what I think is gonna happen. If Feliz goes on the DL during the season for any extended time period he might find himself in a situation similar to Julio Lugo last year…no job left to come back to as Jed Lowrie simply kept hitting.
He needs everyday reps at 3B though.
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I think what needs to happen is they need to tell him that they are going to give him every chance to be the starting 3B in 2010, that they want him to play a full season in AAA, playing 3B every day, and to focus on the defensive aspect of the game. If they just send him down, you know hes going to press and try to prove he shouldn’t have been sent down, and its going to cause a ripple.
I wouldn’t bring him up mid season unless Feliz is long term injured. Yoyo’ing him might not be a great benefit this year.
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Won’t Donald’s place on the big club in April depend almost enturely on whether Feliz is ready for full-time play AND also the team’s evaluation of hos defensive skills at 3rd…and at 2nd if Utley also is questionable.
OTHERWISE, he should go to LV to catch his 3b mojo there; then be ready for midseason call-up or at least in Sept.
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seth makes alot of sense maybe we can trade him for a great infield prospect, and since were not going to need a young 3rd baseman with feliz being so young and gifted it makes even more sense.
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i,ll say this ive seen alot of baseball in 50 years and this is a monster. look at the roster and then who we coming brown maybery taylor marson d,armand carrasco and drabek. no wheels comment im serious THIS TEAM IS A MONSTER.
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The Mets fizzle because of grizzle. The Yanks got old, Look and see all the good things this team has. The only thing that can stop team is a fearful GM and i dont think that is Ruben.
Feliz .249 worse .302 obp worse 43 runs worse 14 hr 58 rbi
worse .192 in August fading defensive skills. Does anyone really think Donald cant beat these numbers. Do you expect
Feliz to age like fine wine. In a month Donald will be a better
third baseman then Feliz will be THIS year, Get with it the past is over. You cant fall in love with a player just because he is here It may not be now or never but it is now
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i very recently said he is better as a candidate for a trade. but he keeps on hitting. can he play third effectively?
one awesome thing about feliz is that i have no worries with him. he is an incredible fielder, especially to those who remember the days of david bell. best arm strength ive ever seen, making everything look easy. and he also had some big hits in the WS.
as long as he doesnt look like an idiot at third, i wouldnt mind donald taking over the starting job. and i dont think we really have any third base prospects.
one thing tho…if people are going to use the logic that donald could get better numbers than feliz, then those same people should use that logic for marson. marson could outplay ruiz this year, so why is there so much fervor for donald and not marson?
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I’m pretty sure Donald will go to AAA either as a last cut or when Feliz and Utley are both ready. I also think Feliz’ back won’t hold up and we’ll see Donald at 3B by mid-year ’09. I’m hoping I’m wrong on that last part, not because I’m afraid of Donald at 3rd full-time, because Feliz is in the last year of his contract. If he wants to sign a new contract , with another team, he’ll put up big numbers this year. If he has a good year with the bat, the Phils will look very good indeed.
Interesting how a year can make such a change in our discussions. Or should I say aWorld Series win can change the way we discuss things. Last year, it was all about if this would happen or this guy would have a big year or this pitcher can 10 games etc. We also were saying that the big club would get no help from the minors (that was last year at this time). Things have changed a lot. Discussions are positive. There were a few guys from the minors who made a difference. We know the big club can win and there are a couple of guys in the minors who are ready, willing and able to fill any gaps. What a difference a year — or a WS win — can do.
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Donald has been on a tear the last three or four games, I was thinking AAA but if Feliz isnt ready, they need to give this kid a shot. He has proven himself time and again. His numbers in the Olympics, Fall ball and now Spring Training are great and even better… he hasnt had an error this Spring.
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i think donald’s biggest threat for a roster spot is marcus giles. he is having a great spring, is also right handed and is equally versatile. it is a dream to think that he will start at 3b unless feliz is hurt. so his best shot is as a utility player that can swap between 2b, ss, 3b. but giles can too.
btw, off topic, but i think that mayberry’s biggest threat is matt stairs. that one homer he hit will go a long way for the phillies brass.
but whatever happens, it is wonderful to see these guys perform. it is a long time coming, but it looks like we are starting to build some depth.
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Ok greg oden You win i also want Marson and reject the fairy tale that a guy who cant throw out people is a good defensive catcher. Ruiz cant hit he had a great Post season but so did Myers is he a great hitter. Marson and Donald need to be exposed to MLB not some worn out rag arm pitchers at AAA
I believe Ruben will do the right thing and get rid of floatsum
like Bruntlett and keep Feliz in Florida to gain strength and try Donald. Jenkins and Stairs are yesterday.
The whole farm system is watching and needs to have hope and needs to advance.
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Expect Donald to head to AAA to play 3b on a regular basis with the possibility of getting called up for good part way through the season if Feliz struggles with bat/health into June/July.
Phillies will bring him north just to sit on the bench and get 3-5 at-bats per week as a ph/spot starter.
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As for the comments on Marson, the Phillies will not turn over a WS defending pitching staff to a 23-year old rookie catcher.
Marson will head to AAA and continue to work on his game-calling and defense.
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“Phillies will bring him north just to sit on the bench and get 3-5 at-bats per week as a ph/spot starter.”
Should have said the will NOT bring him north….
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I think it is inevitable (and preferable) that Donald go to AAA and work on playing third base. I think they should tell him that Pedro’s the third baseman this year, just to temper his expectations. If he picks up the position and hits as well as I expect him to hit, they can call him up in May or June to take over. All of that having been said, if Feliz is healthy by the end of the month and the Yankees decide they want to trade for him (certainly a possible scenario), I’d consider it if Donald had adjusted adequately to the position.
And by the way, why in the world would this team trade Jason Donald? That makes no sense. At this point, the entire goal of the team should be to groom younger, talented, less expensive players to fill in and compliment the team. Donald fits that bill extremely well since I am fairly sure he can play third. He also appears to be a very hard-working, aggressive player. He’s exactly what they need. Trade him? For who? For what?
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It’s not like Feliz is chopped liver, he’s a wizard defensively and Charlie thinks he’ll hit much better going forward. Let’s not forget that he hit 20 HRs a year while playing in Pac-Bell Park.
Donald is not real smooth in the field and might let in as many runs as he creates. If he makes the team right now, I think it’d be in a Bruntlett type role…if they’re happy with Bruntlett than I think Donald has got to start the season in AAA to concentrate on his defense.
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Do you think he’s gonna hit 20 HRs in CBP when he’s 2 years older and fighting a chronic bad back?..even if he posts an OBP around his career line, that’s not very good offensive production…he barely cracks .300 OBP in a very good season. Feliz is a perfect RH bat/pinch hitter off the bench/defensive replacement type guy.
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I have two lines of thought on Donald.
One is that he is going to be our 3rd baseman after this year. If so he would be best served by starting in AAA and playing the position more to prepare and waiting for the inevitable callup when pedro back acts up. I just don’t think he is best suited for third. And when we have Mattair who I have high hopes for at third and the organization says Hewitt is a third baseman down the road, he just doens’t have much room to find his niche. especially if you think as I do do that his best mlb position is second base.
The other line of thought is that this kid is going to be a super utility guy at the mlb level and he needs to learn how to hit coming off the bench as much as he needs consistent at bats in the minors. It’s a role that not everybody can do and he would be best served learning next to Bruntlett and under the Charlie’s eye for hitting.
I really like Donald as a player but we have his best positions blocked long term. Technically we should trade him for some 19 and 20 year old middle infielders. But it’s hard to pull the trigger especially after we just traded Cardenas.
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I made the “Feliz” is a good hitter argument to PP last year (I should have known better, particularly in light of the horrid OBP). He shot me down.
I watched Feliz for a year and, sure enough, PP was dead on right. Feliz does field extremely well and he’s an okay clutch hitter, but goodness gracious, the club gives up an awful lot of offense having him and Ruiz hit at the bottom of the line-up. They are really offensive dead weight, which is not so bad for a SS or catcher, but it’s a pretty big liability for a third baseman.
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I really think that if Feliz is not ready, Giles or Ozuna will get the nod and head North over Donald. They are vets and will get the benefit of the doubt.
I agree with phuture that the Phills just need to explain to Donald he’s their future and that they want him to learn 3rd to play there full time.
More importantly, they need to trade Stairs to get Mayberry on the 25 man. At his age more ABs in AAA aren’t going to help, he’s a power bat from the right side which we lack. We need him on the 25 man.
Does anyone think Carpenter will be with this org by the end of the year?
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To me, the bottom line is Donald starts playing 3B next year, and hopefully for the next 5 years, maybe longer. Would I like to see him start this year? Sure, PC. But Phils don’t operate that way. They always try to protect their investment and “do the right thing” for veterans (Feliz). It’s a long season, though. Feliz could tweak his back. Utley could also have a setback. Another issue is that if Giles keeps playing like the Giles of old, he may slip into either of those backup roles before Donald. I hope the thinking is that Giles is better to start as the super utility guy, with Donald at AAA. And that Donald is better to get called up as injury replacement and play every day.
I think Donald starts at AAA and will see major league time this year.
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Me above.
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I agree with most that Donald will start the year at AAA and play third unless Feliz can’t play. And let’s not be too hard on Feliz. He did get the game winning hit that clinched the World Series after all.
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Feliz
Post All-Star 106 8 20 2 1 2 13 9 0 21 0 0 .189 .250 .283 .533
no words are necessary
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As I’ve stated before, Donald’s minor league career is so much like Utley’s it is frightening. I had the exact same operation as Utley’s at almost exactly the same time of year. I was fine by March, oe so I thought. The ortopediat warned me not to over do it. He said it would take a full year to heal 100%. He was correct. As such, I think Utley will need a game a week off. With Feliz’s durability in question, I can foresee Donald getting 250- 300 ABS (about waht Utley got his first year. If they can get him this numer of at bats, then he should stay up.
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Noone is really considering that Donald is more valuable as a shortstop than as a third basemen, and that next year Rollins contract runs out. I’m sorry to say, but the Phillies salary is probably at the highest it will ever be and Rollins may be slightly underpaid for what he brings to a team– I would hate to see him go but he will probably be looking for a payraise that the Phillies may not be willing to give him.
He may be groomed in AAA this year for the superutility role next year and then to be the starting shortstop the following year.
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Donald ought to be the starting 3B next year batting out of the 7 hole.
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people talk about how horrible Feliz was last year, but is it possible that the back injury affected his 2nd half numbers? Let’s not undervalue his defense on a team with 2 left handed change-up artists.
I really think the only way Donald sticks with the 2009 Phillies is as a utility guy, will Donald bring more to this team than Bruntlett? Here’s how I see the bench shaking out this year: Dobbs, Jenkins, Coste/Paulino, Bruntlett, Mayberry.
Bruntlett doesn’t do anything for me, he’s an average defender and a poor hitter, I’d love to see Donald take Bruntlett’s spot, but the team may feel the lack of ABs as a bench player will hurt his development.
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Clearly Donald will take over Bruntlett’s role next year as the utility infielder. Why else did they have him start equally at three infield positions in the AFL and so far in ST he has started at all three positions? Why did they go out and sign Terry Tiffee to play third at AAA? Why in ST have they started Cervanek, Giles, Dobbs and Cairo in addition to Donald at third while Feliz heals if Jason is the third baseman of the future? I would not be surprised that they resign Feliz after this season, waiting to see if Mattair or Hewitt develope into the third baseman of the future.
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I’m not sure that batting over .350, at this point in Spring training, catapults you automatically into a starting role at the major league level. (Anyone have an idea of Greg Golson’s current OPS?) Donald is coming. Get him AAA ABs and a lot of starts at 3B, and let the 3B that we’re paying finish out his contract. And keep an eye on LV.
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I understand what the Phils are trying to do, and that they feel “loyal” to Feliz and are reluctant to assume risk. However, with Donald, there is always going to be a risk one way or another–either you risk losing value by trading him, or you risk promoting him and having him struggle (either for a while or continually). At some point, if you’re going to promote him, you have to assume that risk. If you’re confident he’s better than what you have now, why not assume that risk this year? Is there any reason to think it might be easier next year?
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First you think, how can they not keep Donald with a .379 BA and a .476 OPS? Then you notice that they have already reassigned Jeremy Slayden to the minor league camp and he was hitting .500 with 3 extra base hits in 10 AB. So what we have is a numbers game in which a lot of very competent players will not make the team. I think that the odds of Donald making the Phillies are less than 50/50. However, playing every day in AAA is not necessarily bad for him. doesn’t make the team.
Everyone seems to agree that Donald needs more ABs at triple A, unlike Mayberry who is older and could be a utility player because he doesn’t need them as much. However, the reality is that the difference in their ages is less than one year.
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As a former back pain sufferer i can assure you Pro Feliz or con he doesnt need cold weather
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I don’t see how Donald could get traded with the injury concerns at 3B, 2B and SS (Rollins said his ribs are hurting?). I don’t know how anyone here, or in the FO, could be comfortable looking at Bruntlett starting significant games.
I think he sees some time at 2B in AAA as well, to hone his ‘basement’ role of utility guy.
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“Feliz .249 worse .302 obp worse 43 runs worse 14 hr 58 rbi
worse .192 in August fading defensive skills. Does anyone really think Donald cant beat these numbers. Do you expect
Feliz to age like fine wine. In a month Donald will be a better
third baseman then Feliz will be THIS year, Get with it the past is over. You cant fall in love with a player just because he is here It may not be now or never but it is now”
I agree with this post. We need to pick between Feliz and Ruiz, because they are, like someone else said, completely dead weight at the bottom of the order. I got so infuriated when we had scoring opportunities and one of the 2 would always ground into a double play.
You can make the argument for defense, but is Feliz’s defense going to justify his bat if he hits under .240? Give me the contact .285 hitter with a little worse glove over that any day.
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I’m looking forward to catching two games this weekend and hanging out with the minor leaguers for three days. Hello Lennys!
As for Donald, its starting to look like both Utley and Feliz could be in the opening day loneup. However, Charlie will have to decide if he trusts the situation enough to only have one infield back up in Bruntlett. Donald looks terrific and I would love for him to make the team because I think he’s that good and I think he’ll learn many things hanging around. However, does he need to hang around in a utility role for the whole season to gain that experience? I think they’ll decide they need a second backup infielder for now but also decide that Donald should play every day at least for the first half of the year and keep Giles in that role. Mid season, they can always drop Giles to promote Donald. This would mean that they’ll trade or release Stairs obviously.
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The phils go to San Diego apr 17 . Feliz should be in Florida for the first nine game. That is common sense
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Last year, the worst was when Rollins was injured and the Phillies batted Feliz, Bruntlett, Ruiz and the pitcher in the 6 through 9 holes. Blechhh! It seemed like they didn’t score a run for an entire month.
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***As a former back pain sufferer i can assure you Pro Feliz or con he doesnt need cold weather***
I can second that sentiment. I have a very similar (albeit likely more severe) back injury to Pedro…its not something that gets better…even with surgery. Its one of those things that he could reinjure/reaggravate by doing any number of things not even baseball related. We seriously need a legit backup option because of it…like Donald.
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and bruntlett serving as the defacto Dh that wasnt too slick either
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Jason Donald shouldn’t be upset if he doesn’t break camp with the team, he’s clearly playing himself into the Phillies long term plans. Besides, Feliz hasn’t shown he’s ready to return from his back troubles yet so it might only be a matter of weeks before Donald gets the call. For that matter Feliz might not even be ready to go at all. As long as Donald takes a steady approach to improving every day he’ll be fine. No doubt we’ll see more of him this season regardless. The better he handles the roster shuffle, the sooner he’ll be back.
On WS winning teams you expect good players to get cut. There’s no shame in it, that’s just baseball.
Since Feliz has one year remaining, trading Donald isn’t really on the table unless someone makes an offer we can’t refuse. Phuture is 100% correct, you can’t groom him to take over 3B full time in 2010 with only a few AB per week off the bench.
nowheels, I have to admit I agree that Donald would be an offensive upgrade right away and that Feliz would be better off in warm weather for a month. But as the veteran starter who had the WS clinching hit we owe him every chance to hold on to his job, even if he struggles out of the gate. How long he lasts is another story.
These things have a way of taking care of themselves but if we’re lucky this will be an agonizingly difficult decision.
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Good points ex except he contributed little the second half any average 3rd baseman would of been better. And this year should be a walk the team is so much better even Lidge if five
games less than perfect > No Eaton ,and No Soso is a running start but there is a volcano cooking in Florida set to erupt
in two years so we best start getting ready
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“there is a volcano cooking in Florida set to erupt
in two years so we best start getting ready”
You mean Rollins in the final year of his contract? I dread the day he’s a free agent, too. I would rather have Rollins at shortstop than anyone else, including Jeter, as much as I respect the Yankees captain. Hanley Ramirez is the only one I might give the nod over Jimmy but to be honest even having Hanley wouldn’t make me okay with Rollins leaving. Hurts to even think about it. Good thing he’s signed through 2011. Maybe the Phillies will work out another extension with him before he hits the market but if you’re Rollins, you want a bidding war and he’s likely to get one. What makes it even tougher is Ryan Howard and Cole Hamels are set to be free agents at the same time.
Fortunately that’s far enough away not to matter whether Donald breaks camp with the team next month or not. For now it’s all about Feliz’ back and Donald’s glove at 3rd.
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Let’s not worry about Rollins, 3 years is a long time to figure out a contract. If anyone on the current roster has the potential to be a lifelong Phillie, its Jimmy.
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Morrison,Staton, Domingez,et al are a reality that is coming so you have to build along with Florida . Along with a flood of young pitchers that is the volcano building in Florida. We can compete only by starting to build now. In that light as many young players should stay
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I’ve never played third base, so I certainly can’t speak from firsthand experience. It’s obviously pretty hard to do, and I feel bad criticizing. But… I’ve been at the last couple of games, and at least at Wednesday’s, there were a couple of plays where he looked like he was still learning–got eaten up on one in-between hop at least. Anyway, point is, it’s not as simple as dropping his bat into the lineup–otherwise Dobbs would have been the starting 3B the last couple seasons. Feliz is supposedly a very skilled defender, although of course that’s notoriously difficult to measure statistically. But anyway, my general impression is, Donald wouldn’t be hurt by a half-season at Triple A.
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Andrew – interesting comments. My guess is that, as a shortstop, he is going to be able to make the adjustment to third, but it might take a little while (more than a 40-day training camp). My instinct on Donald is that the team is going to probably send him down and allow him to just play for a couple of months and adjust to AAA pitching. If he plays as well as we all suspect, he will be up sometime this year. Whether that means May, July or late August will depend on several variables (how well Donald plays, how well Feliz plays, whether someone else gets injured, etc. . . . ).
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There is no need to guess No Way you can endanger Feliz
for the first nine game when thermal paradise awaits
Apr. 5 Atlanta 8:00
Apr. 7 Atlanta 7:05
Apr. 8 Atlanta 3:05
Apr. 10 at Colorado 4:10
Apr. 11 at Colorado 8:10
Apr. 12 at Colorado 3:10
Apr. 13 at Washington 3:05
Apr. 15 at Washington 7:05
Apr. 16 at Washington 7:05
Apr. 17 San Diego 7:05
Apr. 18 San Diego 7:05
Apr. 19 San Diego 1:35
Apr. 20 San Diego 7:05
Apr. 21 Milwaukee 7:05 dome
Apr. 22 Milwaukee 7:05 dome
Apr. 23 Milwaukee 1:05 dome
Apr. 24 at Florida 7:10
Apr. 25 at Florida 7:10
Apr. 26 at Florida 12:10
Apr. 27 Washington
I was stationed in Denver and anything is possible . In the year I was there it was 45below and in summer it rained for three days and people drowned on the expressway dips became rivers.. So why take a chance
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a simple point jason will force the phillies to play him, despite all of our discussions , which are great, its really as simple as that. if as i now believe they are now totally commited to winning it all every year.
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John, I think you’re right that Donald will basically force the Phillies to play him. The question is, when will that happen? As the long minor league journeys of Ryan Howard, Chase Utley and J.A. Happ show, they can be really slow in bringing up a player and keeping him around. They also masters at bringing players up in May so they get an extra year of service before the player is eligible for free agency. Don’t think that doesn’t factor into their thinking – I am confident that it does.
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I think the may thing will keep Marson out but it seems silly to rick $3mil on bring back Feliz in cold weather.
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You have to believe they will be monitoring Feliz and the weather carefully and on a day-to-day. If he’s stiff or it’s too cold, they’ll start Dobbs or Bruntlett – I can’t imagine it’s that big of a deal.
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I agree Catch 22, I think the teams hand would really have to be forced to start Donald on the 25 man from Opening Day. If Feliz or Utley start the season on the DL I think it’s more likely we see Ozuna, Giles or one of the other journeymen they’ve assembled start on the ML roster.
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no big deal then start Donald and get his feet wet
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If you start Donald right away you basically have him for six years rather then seven.
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Are back to a small market club to worry about that crap
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Just smart business to keep a player’s costs down and keep him under control as long as possible.
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If Donald is that valuable years from now then. Smart business is to protect 3mil right now for nine games Pardon me while i go look up the rules for 2014
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Even though I disagree with it, 3up is right – it is smart business. Besides, I think that Donald really does need to get some reps at third. I don’t think he has played there prior to six months ago.
– Jeff
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Donald is still learning the nuances of the position, you can’t just throw him out there unprepared on a team that just won the WS…. we all love him on this site but the larger, less informed portion of the fan base will be eating him alive by his fourth error.
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Oh and I may be wrong, but I think Jimmy is only signed through 2010- so only two years to prepare for a possible departure.
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The Phillies hold an $8.5 million club option for 2011 on Rollins…its an almost guarantee that they’ll use it…either way he’s under team control through 2011 as a result.
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Another fantastic outing by Jason Donald today (2 fo 5 with triple). His progress is so much fun to follow.
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I am as undecided on this issue as I am ever going to get. There are so many pros and cons to both sides of the issue (Donald starting in AAA or MLB). The one thing I am sure about and would like to comment on is that it is smart buisness to keep Donald down in AAA until May so that we prolong the team’s control. While I normally agree that this is absolutely something that warrants consideration, for small and large market teams alike, I disagree that it is always smart business. For a team like the Orioles, who may win 75 games with a full season of Weiters as compared to winning 70 games without him, it is absolutely smart to stash him in AAA to delay his arbitration years. However, for a team like the Phillies, where winning should be the number one priority this year (within reason), then it may be a smarter decision to start Donald. My reasoning is that every single game is going to be meaningful. The Phillies are not a superior team to the Mets, and are not all that far ahead of the Braves and Marlins. So, if the Phillies would like to make the playoffs, they are most likely going to need their very best players playing as many games as possible. Of course, with the playoffs comes increased fan support and a few zillion different revenue streams (as we all know from 2008).
Now, the question becomes is 2009 Donald better than 2009 Feliz? And, thus, I am torn. This is the question I do not know the answer to. I am confident that Donald’s offense is greater than Feliz’s offense, however, I am similarly confident that Feliz’s defense is greater than Donald’s. Sadly (because I am anxious to see Donald’s big league career start), I think I must side with Feliz. Not because I think Feliz is going to be the better player, but because I am so torn between the two that I am essentially calling it a tie. And, with the tie, I think it makes more sense for Feliz to man third. Donald can still benefit from AAA at-bats, plus, there is simply a place for Donald to go. If Feliz was relegated to bench duty, I think it would be a huge waste of a roster spot (a one position defensive wiz with no speed/offense). So, like in boxing, I see this one as a tie, and as always, you must definitively beat the champ to win the match.
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Neduolcaz – I agree with you on the relevant issues, but I come out a different way.
First, I think you’re wrong about the strength of this team. I think this is, by far, the best Phillies team I’ve seen since I’ve lived in the area (20 years) – it’s not close. I think this team, at a minimum, wins the same number of games as it won last year and could easily be in the high 90s or over 100. Seriously, I think they’re that good and I’m not saying it just because they won the WS last year. Most of their key players are at their peak and they have incredible depth almost everywhere. Some really fine players won’t make the team.
Next, because I think they are clearly going to be a playoff team and because they spent so much on salary, there is not good reason that future payroll issues should not be relevant right now. Combined with this, I think the reports are clear that Donald needs to finish the adjustment process for third. So, they can give him a little extra time and have his contract rights for an extra year – it’s a very smart move, particularly for a team that will have salary constraints over the coming years – salary control is critical to keeping up their current run – that control includes control over Donald’s salary.
Finally, however, I disagree with you that it’s going to be a tie between Donald and Feliz. At this moment, Donald is probably not quite ready to be the everyday third baseman just because he needs to make the fielding adjustment. Once he does, however, his abilities at the plate should pretty clearly outstrip any fielding advantage Feliz may have.
So, we come out in the same place to start (Feliz begins year at third), but, very quickly, I think that result should change. I’m not sure if the change is one that should be made early year (mid-may) or mid-year, but I think it should happen. Now, will it? I have no idea whatsoever.
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Catch 22 f/k/a/ H Man: On the comment about Donald’s performance today–yeah, he went 2-5 with a triple, but I was sitting up the first base line, and he had at least three errant throws at shortstop. The first one (as I recall–may be a little sketchy here) was on a tough charging play and got all the way past Howard and maybe bounced off the Pirates dugout–it wasn’t scored an error because the runner would have beat it anyway. The second was on a diving stop and Howard couldn’t pick it up on a bounce. Again, it wasn’t scored and error and Donald was throwing from his knees, so it’s a little harsh to criticize, but after the play my dad and I discussed whether it was the sort of play that Rollins or a shortstop with more range might have made without going to his knees in the first place. I won’t venture an opinion on that–maybe someone else can who was at the game. Third one was a routine grounder, and he just sailed the throw, pulling Howard off the bag up the baseline–he was able to snag it and tag the runner out as he came up the line. So, no errors show up in the box score, but to me, watching the game, I have an awful lot of questions about whether he’s got the got the glove and arm to be a ML third baseman, let alone SS.
That said, I’m not an expert, and it’s just one game. Please feel free to disagree. He is a heck of a hitter, I have to say.
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Has anyone picked up the work sheet at Carpenter Complex? For anyone who’s in Clearwater they’re outside the door of the office at the complex. They list all minor league player in camp and what level they are at. Please if anyone get it, please post on the site.
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Ranger any chance u can scan one and post it for us snowbound troops
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From the so called ZoZone
We took a look yesterday at the bench situation. I’m really not sure which way it will break, and I’m not sure the Phillies do, either. But I do sense they prefer Jason Donald and John Mayberry Jr. get regular at-bats in the minor leagues than get a couple pinch-hit at-bats a week in the majors, if possible. The last man on Charlie Manuel’s bench doesn’t get many at-bats (i.e. Michael Bourn, So Taguchi, Alex Gonzalez) and that could
Lets see Donald and Maybery vs. Michael Bourn, So Taguchi, Alex Gonzalez) what a comparison
Zo you have to be kidding D and M get no abs because
Bourne,So et al didnt . Time for a night class in logic
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Andrew – I’m not in Clearwater watching games, so, really, I cannot comment on his fielding this spring and I’ll have to defer to you on that. I think what you’re saying is that he’s quite work in progress in the field. If that’s the case, then perhaps the transition process will take a little longer than expected. I guess we’ll all have to see. I will say, however, that, some of the poor fielding may just be a result of his pressing. The reports of his fielding in the minors, as I recall, were that he was solid, but somewhat limited in range. Hopefully, what you’re seeing is more spring training jitters than a lack of ability, but, at some level, it probably shows he needs more time on the farm. Thanks for the report!
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nedoul and catch i agree with both of your posts above # 79 – 80 . the endgame is team wins and ais having watched baseball for 50 years this team is a 10 year monster i know it is unbelievable to say and hear that but they are. i know jason will be hear for many years but the only definate thing i can say is feliz is much more valuable than his numbers. i know it sounds strange coming from me about donald but my solution is releasing brunlett and letting jason grow into the position at the MLB. level. i just wish someone had listened to me last year and PLAYED HIM AT 3RD at reading. its very hard for oldtimers like charlie to let go of security like brunlett but imo thats how you get better. by seasons end jason should have 300 ab,s giving utley, rollins, and feliz a blow. forget about service time the phillies with 135 mil payroll finally deserve the benefit of the doubt. i think its entirely up to charlies willingness to move on. well see.
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1) Have to agree that Donald would surely be better offensively than Feliz his first year.
2) Also agre Donald will need time to adjust to 3B.
3) I don’t like them keeping him as a utility guy, with the throws and angles being differnt at each position. He hits well enough to get some stability at one positiopn. However, I understand they have to hedge their bets because they are not certain where he will be needed. Now is the time to get an idea if he can handle the positions. Don’t judge too harshly on individual plays or games. Phils evaluators have to observe and project a little. But I would get him to 3B as quickly as possible.
4) I suspect Donald will be good on 80-90% of the balls hit to him at 3B first year. The others, his lack of polish will show the first year. But he is solid athletically, smart, and dedicated to excel, so it’s a good bet he will be MLB avg to avg+ in 1-2 years, much like Utley.
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