Reader Top 30; #23

2009 Reader Top 30

Travis Mattair takes #22, grabbing 79 votes. There was a tie for 2nd place between Andrew Carpenter and Damarii Saunderson, so voting for #23 should be interesting. There were also 18 write-in votes, some of them serious, some of them jokes I’d expect out of a 5 year old. The legit write-ins; Gose, Slate, De Fratus, Matos, Shreve, and Harman. For some reason, Terry Tiffee got 5 write-in votes. He’s not even really a prospect. So, here we go..

01. Carlos Carrasco, RHP
02. Lou Marson, C
03. Jason Donald, SS
04. Kyle Drabek, RHP
05. Michael Taylor, OF
06. Dominic Brown, OF
07. JA Happ, LHP
08. Travis D’Arnaud, C
09. Joe Savery, LHP
10. Zach Collier, OF
11. Jason Knapp, RHP
12. John Mayberry Jr, OF
13. Edgar Garcia, RHP
14. Antonio Bastardo, LHP
15. Julian Sampson, RHP
16. Drew Naylor, RHP
17. Mike Stutes, RHP
18. Anthony Hewitt, 3B
19. Sebastian Valle, C
20. Vance Worley, RHP
21. Freddy Galvis, SS
22. Travis Mattair, 3B
23.

76 thoughts on “Reader Top 30; #23”

  1. Finally, I get to vote for someone other than Mattair. Hopefully, I will only have to vote for Carpenter once. There are still some prospects left on the board who could make an impact, which is awesome to see.

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  2. It’s amazing how different my personal top 30 will be compared to this top 30. I’ll post it on the message board after this top 30 is done, complete with reasoning and stuff.

    Also, I gotta go with Cisco again.

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  3. I got to go with Cisco here, I prefer his stuff to Carpenter’s and was impressed by his K/BB rate both this year and in his college career.

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  4. I don’t get the support for Saunderson. I will understand Carpenter getting this slot. But I went for the best option up there – DeFratus.

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  5. Tiffee’s got 243 MLB at bats guys. He’s not rookie eligible.

    I don’t see it with Saunderson. He was drafted in the 15th round. What could he possibly do in 13 GCL games to change that assessment? Especially over Anthony Gose.

    I went with Gose in this spot. Flipping between him and Cisco, but ultimately an outfielder is more valuable than a reliever.

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  6. Okay, I’m back on the Cisco bandwagon.

    I’m kinda curious as to why Saunderson is getting a good push. I understand that his 8 walks in 38 plate appearances is extraordinary, but with such a small sample size, could it possibly be a fluke? Especially when you factor in his Hewitt-like strikeout percentage – 15k in 29 at-bats. So, if anyone has any additional pro-Saunderson arguments, please enlighten me.

    – Jeff

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  8. De Fratus for #23
    I’m expecting him to be the ace in Lakewood as he was in Williamsport last season. Innings eater w/ decent numbers. Cisco would be next.

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  9. Going with Cosart at number 23 over Gose, Carpenter, and Shreve. Not a huge fan of most of the others on the list at this stage. Guys like Cosart with potential are as good a choice as any. Carpenter would be a legit choice given how close he is to the majors.

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  12. I chose Gose because he “could” become a major league regular over a lot of guys that I don’t believe will. There’s still a few more pitchers that could make it but I’ll take the outfielder with the great arm. Has anyone ever fallen down as far on this type of list in one year as D’Arby Myers? No one even mentions him..

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  13. Cisco again for me. Reasoning here.

    Honestly not sure what to make of Carpenter going forward. I think he’s a 7th inning reliever at best, a Geoff Geary without the ground ball tendency type. Cisco right now has the look of a back end starter, or maybe an 8th inning reliever, which is why I give him the nod.

    As far as the “projectables” (i.e. Cosart, Shreve, Gose, May) go… damned if I know where to put them. They could realistically slot in anywhere between #12 and #30.

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  14. Saunderson was 15th round pick but he has 1st-6th round talent , he was hurt in the summer, if he is healthy I believe he will show his real talents , he’s a cold weather kid that has a strong up side, and bat speed that better then most already

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  17. A little surprised at Saunderson as well. He was signed above slot if I’m not mistaken, but it was still a late round and it wasn’t that much money.

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  19. This should be an interesting vote. Carpenter was a consensus top 10 Phils prospect prior to last season. However, for #23, I am choosing the highest ceiling talent left, Anthony Gose.

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  20. Barring injury, Gose will make the major leagues. He doesn’t lack motivation, and 4 of his 5 tools might be the best in our entire farm system. There are simply too many things he does very well, for some of them not to prove useful.

    I don’t know what kind of major leaguer he’ll be, but I think he’ll be a major leaguer, and this enough this far down the list. Such an intriguing range of possibilities: from LOOGY to leadoff hitter, from lefty closer to gold glove center fielder, from a stronger Michael Bourn with a cannon arm to Scott Kazmir. I don’t know what sort of player he’ll become, but I think we’ll see him in a Phillies uniform someday, and he’ll be an exciting prospect to track.

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  21. really confused about the love for saunderson. Cisco has been on the board since around #15. Please let me vote for someone else and get Mike in at 23.

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  22. I can understand people wanting to go young, but I think Gose, Cisco, and DeFratus all have higher upsides then Saunderson.

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  23. Plate discipline and pitch recognition. Being a great athlete with those two items makes for an interesting guy. That being said I voted for Gose, based on Manuel’s chat about him having five above average tools.

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  24. I have never read saunderson was a 1st round talent, and if he was, kid should have gone back to school because he left a ton of money on the table, money the odds of which he’ll ever make playing baseball are slim. I have read that he was a good physical speciman with a lot of refining to do, committed to going to a decent JUCO program. Not saying he doesn’t have upside but there is a reason he was a late round flyer who signed for 8th round money. I am baffled that he is rating above any of the draft picks who the phillies paid real money to. Unless this site is full of scouts who have inside information there is no earthly explanation.

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  26. Im pretty sure everyone fell in love with Saunderson because of the write-up he got on this site. “It’s all about Damarii” if i remember correctly. I hope that didn’t sound like a slight to the write-up or the site, i thoroughly enjoy(ed) both.

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  27. Cisco again…I’m in agreement with Friar on both him and Carpenter. Maybe Cisco will hit the same wall Carpenter hit last year, but he hasn’t yet so I give him the edge.

    I’m still skeptical of Gose as a hitter. Pre-draft, BBA was not sold on him at the plate (“struggles to make contact against even mediocre H.S pitching…making consistent hard contact proved difficult for him”). Law didn’t think much of him as a hitter either. He didn’t do anything special in an admittedly small sample size last year. He definitely has plus defensive tools, but will probably end up in the Golson/Bourne category as a hitter. As a pitcher, he’s intriguing but it seems we’re going to have to wait for him to fail as an OF before we get to see how his raw stuff translates to pro ball.

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  30. Time for some love for my man Slayden. Yes, he’s not going to become Jayson Werth or anything, but this guy is going to play in the majors, perhaps for a long time. I think he’s going to be better than Jason Michaels – a nice little 4th outfielder with some pop. At number 23, he deserves some recognition.

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  31. voted for a “friend of mine” ya ya i did . Next i wanna go a long Schwimer so many K’s cant be wrong

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  32. Q. Berry, then Lakewood’s Karl Bolt. He hit over .325 three months last summer, but for some reason had one horrific month. Bolt can play IF and OF.

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  33. Thanks I reviewed Karl Bolt April wasnt too cool either
    but recovering from a horrible July with a great August seems to say whatever was wrong was corrected. Because of the age factor 2009 needs to be great not good
    good luck to him

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  36. Something’s up with this Saunderson vote – how else can you explain him leading with 81 votes, yet only TWO people cared to comment and explain their pick…and those two explanations are “he’s got tons of upside” and “he has 1st-6th round talent”…what gives? I smell a rat.

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  37. How can anyone vote for Shreve? We have NO IDEA how he’ll come back from TJ surgery. If he comes back at full strength or better, then he could be Kyle Drabek next year…if not, he could be quickly out of baseball. There’s no way to tell where he’ll show up next summer.

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  39. I could see some of these people – Gose, Shreve, DeFratus…even the 5′ 10″ Cisco.
    I’m not sold on Carpenter, Saunderson or Berry.

    Uh…Javon Moran? really?

    I voted for Miguel Matos because he needs to start appearing on the radar. He may not be better than Shreve or Gose, yet. But he’s a 20 year old RHP who worked up to Clearwater (where he decidedly struggled). He’s 6′ 4″ and hasn’t filled out yet (about 180 lbs). He misses bats and not, so far, the strike zone. His peripherals look very good.

    At this point it’s all pretty speculative. I’d “speculate” that Matos will go farther than most.

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  41. Maybe Saunderson has a lot of family and friends who frequent this site.

    I understand the whole pitch recognition and plate discipline thing being important, but how does that explain 15 strikeouts in less than 40 plate appearances? All of the plate discipline in the world won’t help if you can’t make contact – pitchers even in the low levels will quickly learn to just throw strikes at him. And if it sounds like I’m ripping Saunderson, then maybe I should qualify my comments: He could be really talented and a great prospect, but his 40ab sample size is leaving me with more questions than anything else.

    – Jeff

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  42. Nepp, where did you vote Drabek last year after he had TJ surgery? Why should Shreve or any other pitcher who is attempting a comeback from TJ be any different? Obviously, having TJ surgery will diminish a prospect until we know definitively whether or not that prospect will recover, however, you cannot dismiss that prospect altogether. So, how could anyone vote for Shreve? You answered that question yourself when you said “he could be Kyle Drabek next year.” That is some nice upside to have, and TJ surgery is successful far more than it is unsuccessful. With that said, I still voted for Carpenter. It is simply that I would have already listed Shreve in my personal top 30, so I thought I would defend the guy. Oh, and also, who would you rather have in your farm system, Shreve or Moran (a likely top 30 prospect) ?

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  43. Saunderson has all five tools are 1) hitting for average, 2) hitting for power, 3) running speed, 4) arm strength and 5) fielding ability. He only had 29 at bats and was injured, if he is healthy and can gets some real at bats I think people will see he is a top prospect that we got in the 15 round , that can play with the best if them , time will tell

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  44. Once again, my vote goes to Shreve. Most upside of anyone left on the board… I mean, come on people! just consider him our 2009 first round pick since we don’t have one.

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  45. I assume Andrew Carpenter will grab the rightful spot at #23, leaving seven prospect slots left. Let me see if I can identify them as a group.

    Andrew Gose
    Mike Cisco
    Quintin Berry
    Sergio Escalona
    Robert Mosebach
    Brad Harman
    Jeremy Slayden

    Right below that you have a few guys with good arguments including Colby Shreve, Michael Schwimer and Chance Chapman. The problem with Shreve is that we really won’t know what he’s capable of for two years.

    Quick bites on other names.

    Miguel Matos – That Clearwater appearance really looks like a spot start. He finished the season at Williamsport so he probably got called in to duty since Clearwater and the GCL Phillies are more or less at the same facilities. When it comes to low ball relievers, Matos has to get in line behind Schwimer and B.J. Rosenberg.

    Javon Moran – He’s 26, he just hit .252 in AA Reading. He’s not on anyone’s radar as anything more than a fifth outfielder at this point, if that. Probably a minor league regular.

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  46. Carpenter. A bit of a hope vote. If he is in shape an returns to 2007 form this season, he is a no-brainer. I think there is a good chance of that happening, given he turned himself around a good bit last season.We could see him in Philly this year also, in the rotation for injuries most likely, or September callup. If he is the same as last year’s bad stretch, we can write him off, similar to Segovia, etc. But I will slot him in here based on potential turnaround and proximity.

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  47. I won’t place Shreve back on the list until I see he’s healthy…that’s what I did with Drabek last year too. POTENTIALLY, IF he is healthy, he could be a Top 10 guy in a couple years….IF. For now he’s not on my list.

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  48. found a really good interview with chuck lamar. he is surprisingly candid, making this click well worth the listen.

    [audio src="http://beerleaguer.typepad.com/Lamar.mp3" /]

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  49. Terry Tiffee?! lol

    I voted for Drew Carpenter. This year was a set-back for him but he did make it to the majors for a short call-up and actually pitched in a game. He struggled at AA but did better there later and was fine at AAA. I think he will start the year as a starter at AAA but he may start at AA if he doesn’t do well at spring training.

    Saunderson seems to be too young and too much of a toolbox to be able to project, but I do think he should be somewhere in the top 30, just not here.

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  50. Alan –
    A couple quibbles. I do not see Harman as really sticking as more than a September call up. Even your Rosenberg has more upside.

    Slayden is gone.

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  51. I thought Slayden was being invited to Phillies spring training. I also checked the Minor League Baseball site – it says he’s still with the team. Why do you think he’s gone?

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  52. Slayden is not gone. He is a Spring Training invite. He’ll start for either the R-Phillies or the Iron Pigs this year.

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  55. There are very few players in the Phils’ system that bore me more than Javon Moran and Quintin Berry. They are marginal players with little to no upside. I find it difficult to get excited about a guy whose best case scenario is as a late-inning outfield defensive replacement and pinch runner.

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  56. Andy, Harman just turned 23. His batting peripherals were good last season with acceptable plate discipline and good power. Given that he’s a plus defender and he’s still young, a bounce back season puts him in a good spot. I don’t know if he’ll be good enough to become an MLB regular, but certainly he could be a utility infielder.

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  57. Can’t agree with Alan’s final 7. Some guys with a lot more potential from last draft and international. Gotta include Cosart. Schreve, DeFratus, Leandro Castro, Matos. I’ll add Cisco and Escalona. Slayden’s numbers at Reading weren’t good enough for his age. Harman’s weren’t good at all, but he is younger and a good defender. If I were going to 35, I’d add Harman, Slayden, May, Saunderson, Pettibone.

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  58. ok somebody has found a way around the system and is voting for saunderson a million times. this is absurd.

    It’s gotta be Cisco at this point. What else could he have done last year to merit this? 0.99 ERA at two levels, 52 K’s to 5 BB’s in only 54.1 innings. And he got BETTER when he moved up to lakewood. I understand it’s a pitchers park, but it’s still impressive when someone improves their stats even when they go up a level. He should start at Clearwater and he’s only 21, so he’s right on track age wise. His WHIP was between .8 and .9 with a nice groundball/flyball ratio. Please vote him in soon.

    And Damarii Saunderson, if you’re the one that keeps voting for yourself, please stop it. That is all.

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  60. How has Damarii Saunderson gotten 92 votes? Joe, I understand your argument and I realize that you and at least one other person who’s commented on here have voted for the guy. But I’d love to hear from the other 90, even if they’re his family (I actually think that would be a cool perspective to get).

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  61. Saunderson is on Facebook – maybe he campaigned on there to get all his friends to vote. If his support here is legit, it will certainly be interesting watching him this year.

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  62. I would hope that he would have better things to do that organize a campaign for him to be the #23 prospect on a Phillies Minor League Blog. (No offense to James or to this site, of which I have been very vocal in my praises).

    I thought I had read on a few weeks back, that James was able to track the IP addresses of the voters, and was keeping an eye on ballot box stuffers. Maybe he can let us know if that’s the case.

    I do find it weird that there don’t seem to be a whole lot of Damarii fans singing his praises, especially given that there have been quite a few comments asking why he is deserving of a top-30 slot.

    – Jeff

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  63. Yeah. I was dumb on Slayden. Though I’m not sure I’d rank him as a prospect in the minors of an NL team. He can, simply, hit. But with two corner OFs ahead of him on this list and both MLB corners signed for two+ years, I think his future resides in a trade package. That he passed through Rule 5, incidentally, may merit some concern about his placement on this list.

    On Harman, OTOH, I will hold my position. His peripherals are, actually, pretty bad. In 1916 ABs he’s gotten 188 walks to 475 Ks. Last year he had more Ks than hits. He does not have speed on the base paths and his BA sank to its lowest level.

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  64. I have to think there’s a way around the IP safeguard and someone is stuffing the ballot. This Saunderson love is outta nowhere. Great to hear his debut was so woeful because he was injured, but that leaves us with a 15th round pick who has yet to perform… and has injury issues. wierd.

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  65. Yes, some definite ballot stuffing going on. We simply haven’t had 320 voters for any of the positions, at least going back to #8. Of the recent voting rounds, the highest was 279 when Hewitt got voted in at number 20, with most rounds well short of that total.

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  66. We’ve forgotten to mention one possibility – James (who has professed a liking for Saunderson) could be the one stuffing the ballot box!

    – Jeff

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  70. I voted for De Fratus, but stuffing a ballot wouldn’t be too hard. I work at a large Pharma company and have access to probably 4 dozen computers just on my floor. I could easily just add in votes. BUt trust me I am WAY too lazy for that. BUt it could be done since all those pcs would have different IP addresses.

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  73. allentown – I like your seven. Alan has a point about Schwimer, though. he could develop into a malicious pitcher.

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  74. “Andy Says:
    January 28, 2009 at 9:26 am
    allentown – I like your seven. Alan has a point about Schwimer, though. he could develop into a malicious pitcher.”

    Only if you look at numbers and not stuff. There is only so many years you can watch college guys dominate the low minors to realize that not everyone who dominates has dominating stuff. He’s like a right handed Matt German. I think he has more workable stuff, but still, i’m not sure if you could find a scout to say he has even major league average type stuff.

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  75. I watched Saunderson face Cosart in 2008 ,before they both were drafted in a showcase , it was quite a battle, Cosart threw about 11 pitches before walking Saunderson very nice at that time,now thier on the same team, Good luck to them both

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