Reader Top 30; #7

2009 Reader Top 30

Dominic Brown took slot number 6 in a walk (something he does well) racking up 73 votes, with JA Happ coming in a distant second with 21 tallies. I’ll give the full totals here, and then I have some more info to pass on before we get to number 7.

Brown – 73
Happ – 21
D’Arnaud – 10
Mayberry – 2
Cisco and Savery – 1

Check below for more…

[Update 9:10 PM] Looks like I have to limit voting by IP addresses now. That will take effect starting with #8.

If that affects you, sorry. Some people can’t just leave well enough alone and have to ruin it for everyone else.

As I mentioned on Friday, with the ability to use polls here on wordpress, it should make the voting from here on out much easier. We tested it out on the Drabek question, and it seemed to work fine. So, before we get to the voting, just a few points I want to emphasize.

1. When we put a spot up for vote, I will include every player who got votes in the previous poll as a “choice” you can just select.
2. If you want to vote for a player who did not receive any votes in the prior round, you need to select the “OTHER” choice, but you also MUST write in the actual vote. If you vote OTHER and leave the gray box blank,

    your vote will not count.

3. So, just to repeat. If you want to vote for someone who is not on the ballot, you need to select the OTHER choice, and then in the GRAY BOX you must type in your choice.

So far, this is what we have

01. Carlos Carrasco, RHP
02. Lou Marson, C
03. Jason Donald, SS
04. Kyle Drabek, RHP
05. Michael Taylor, OF
06. Dominic Brown, OF
07.

I’ll be putting the following names on the ballot

D’Arnaud
Happ
Mayberry
Cisco
Savery
Collier (named for #4)
Knapp (named for #4)

Again, if you want to vote for someone else, the directions are above.

82 thoughts on “Reader Top 30; #7”

  1. “Too simple Drill Sergeant”. Happ and Mayberry are tough for me to slot. As I’ve said before, I think Happ is already a Major Leaguer. I think Mayberry will help the big club this year… at some point.

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  3. For those of you who vote other, do you mind writing your vote in the comments section? Just curious as to what others are thinking…

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  6. Eaton wouldnt qualify for 30 what would u write

    Caz Cisco because he accomplished more than anyone in the draft and noone knows where he is going

    and i wanted to color outside

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  8. d’arnaud vs. happ is the classic battle of projection vs. close to the majors. i’m a dreamer, so i went with projection. but i could see happ making an impact in the bigs this year, so i would be fine with either.

    also interesting that mayberry is not getting any love. if golson was here, i bet he would be getting more love. and theoretically, they are equal

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  9. I’ve been going with projection on most of my other votes (Brown over Taylor, Drabek over both of them) but it’s time to give Happ his due. He’ll be with the big club all year and is ready to perform, and that counts for something.

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  10. Travis D’Arnaud. Got to go for the talent level here and several more slightly more experienced types might follow along with some other high-upside youths.

    I don’t go along with alot of the high rating of pitchers coming out of 4 years of College who seem to do well in the low minors. The factor of their experience level versus the hitters may be a skew. Demonstrating control notwithstanding.

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  11. I’d like to have Brown in this spot, but since he won last round I went with Happ again, seemingly for the thousandth time. It seems no one values likelihood of success very much, but to each his own. At least if D’arnaud wins this round, i’m pretty sure I’ll only have to vote Happ one more time.

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  16. D’Arnaud for me. I’ll be out of town this week so my next votes (depending on winners) are:

    D’Arnaud
    Happ
    Savery

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  19. Should Happ really be in this discussion, he’s a major leaguer. If you include Happ, eventually you have to include Mathieson and Zagurski. Both players have less then 40 innings pitched, same as Happ.

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  20. I voted d’Arnaud again. Looks like we’ve got a real barn-burner on our hands between him and Happ; should be interesting to see what happens after #8 then. Anyway, a couple of points…

    Re: d’Arnaud v. Happ. I know Happ is probably more of a “sure thing,” but I’m not sure there’s as big a separation in their floors as people are making out. Happ’s floor is as a middle reliever, but d’Arnaud profiles as a backup catcher at worst. And obviously, Travis’ ceiling is quite a bit higher than Jay’s.

    Re: PP Fan’s point about Mayberry. In my mind, trading Golson for Mayberry was about swapping a boom-or-bust five tool guy for a more limited but MLB-ready bat with one plus tool (power). I could see people voting for Golson here with the idea that “on the slim chance he puts it all together, he’s the best player on this list.” But even if Mayberry puts it all together, he’s a good slugging, low average, low OBP kind of guy (kind of an outfield version of Mike Jacobs). Not sure if that’s how people are thinking, but that distinction makes sense to me.

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  22. I think Happ counts in the discussion but realistically hes not a TOP prospect. We have to get the guys out of the way who have HUGE projection before we start giving end of rotation guys HIGH PRAISE. I voted d’Arnaud because everything i have heard on this guy is hes has a HIGHER ceiling in almost every aspect than Marson.

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  23. oops. I mean, I voted D’Arnaud. I said this in the last voting thread, but what he did at SS and then at Low-A last year was awfully impressive for a 19-year-old catcher.

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  25. ****eventually you have to include Mathieson and Zagurski****

    There’s about a 30% chance of Mathieson ever pitching again so I doubt he’ll make it in the discussion (damn shame as he had good stuff when healthy). The rules put down by James was that anyone eligible for RotY is a viable choice…based on that, Happ should be in the discussion.

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  26. voted for Happ.

    i think his proximity to the majors and the contributions he will make are much more apparent than the projection of anyone else.

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  30. Alright JA Happ, its your turn finally. For a guy who could potentially start for us next season and win 12-15 games for us, #7 is a reasonable spot. He doesn’t have the same kind of ceiling as these other guys, but he’s not too shabby as a finished product either.

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  32. D’Arnaud – even if his major league career doesn’t pan out as much, or more than Happ’s, his prospect value looks to be pretty significant- especially if he puts up another solid year or two, in a way that will make him more valuable then Happ.

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  34. I will bet anyone that if we proposed a trade with just 1 of Happ or d’Arnaud and no other players involved d’Arnaud would bring back a better package/player.

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  36. I bet Happ’s value is higher, because he could immediately fill a hole in a team’s rotation. A young, inexpensive, lefthanded #4 starter is pretty valuable.

    I voted Happ, but the rationale of him being “more of a sure thing” doesn’t make sense to me. Barring injury or collapse, they’ll both play in the major leagues. I think D’Arnaud will have a better major league career than Happ, but Happ’s ready and D’Arnaud is 3 years away. Happ had a few solid starts, but Kendrick had many more than that before hitters figured him out. Kendrick is a more established major leaguer than Happ, but that doesn’t mean he’ll have a better career.

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  37. John Mayberry. The guy was hitting .311 with 10 homers and 40 rbi’s in April, May and June with 219 at bats in AAA. Did go below the Mendoza line in July in the dust bowl of Oklahoma City but still wound up hitting .350 for the full season against AAA lefties.

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  39. If Happ is our SEVENTH best prospect, we have the deepest farm system in the game…

    Do I think he’s going to be an all-star, like possibly Drabek? No.

    But do I think he’s ML-ready, can round out a rotation, and win 12 games with a mid-4 ERA? Absolutely.

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  44. D’Arnaud.
    Happ IS a prospect, but not on a par with D’Arnaud or the guys we have already listed.

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  45. D’Arnaud…anyone have a definitive phonetic pronunciation of that? If he’s the seventh best prospect in our system (and I think he is), I need to learn how to pronounce his name…

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  48. I voted D’Arnaud. (I’ve heard it done De-nar)

    I really fail to see how J.A. Happ is a sure thing to succeed in the majors. He’s got all of five MLB starts under his belt, and his control is not that good. He could just as easily be in Lehigh Valley by the All-Star Break.

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  49. Most people consider him decent in the Major Leagues because he has maintained his K ratios and a relatively low ERA. I agree with all of these things. I think his control will come around once he is used to the Majors.

    I voted for Happ this round.

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  50. Alan Says: his control is not that good.
    Look at it this way . Umpires are not used to looking at high ball pitchers as Happ gets more starts and success he will
    get more calls . The other side of the equation is that modern hitters stink at hitting high balls.(not my words). And a hanging slider is more apt to go out here than a high pitch(see Utley and Howard). As for Happ being older had they not obtained Garcia and Easton, Happ would be a vetern by now
    (see Happ’s Reading stat vs Myers Reading stats.

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  52. i guess i will go with happ, i dont really see him as a prospect anymore but i will give him some love, with d’arnaud coming in right behind him

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  53. Very tough decision here. I originally thought Happ was going to be my choice but after some more thought I think I have to again go with the great upside in D’Arnaud. Happ should make #8 if he doesn’t win here, then we can move on to some fresh discussion.

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  54. I voted for d’Arnaud— his upside is impossible to ignore.

    As for “modern hitters stink[ing] at hitting high balls,” that would depend on the player– every batter has his own sweet-spot and all it takes is an adjustment in batting practice to level the playing field. These guys hit a ball for a living- I doubt that they will be baffled for too long because Happ throws it higher than everyone else.

    And for the record, he wouldn’t be a veteran right now because if we hadn’t obtained “Easton” or Garcia then he would still have Gavin Floyd and Giovanny Gonzalez ahead of him on the depth chart. By that token he may not have even had an ML start by now.

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  57. Happ. I like D’Arnaud, Collier, and Knapp, but I think to put any of them above Happ is foolish at this point. Results have to outweigh potential at some point.

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  58. Okay, so it seems like it’s really easy to stuff the ballot box if somebody were that adamant about a certain player to win. In addition to my regular vote, I was able to submit two other votes (not gonna say how for those who can’t figure it out, but James, those are the other votes that are Test 1 and Test 2) and I’m sure I could cheat the system more if I wanted to take the time. I just find it strange that there’s suddenly 226 votes and that Happ has stayed consistently exactly 15 votes ahead of D’Arnaud. Just saying. Especially considering the commenters seem to be really in favor of D’Arnaud.

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  60. This is unrelated… but the Top 30 could change really soon:

    7:29 p.m. — Phillies enter Peavy fray

    The World Series champion Phillies are active on at least two fronts. They have shown interest in Twins’ outfielder Delmon Young and also have emerged as a possible third team in the ongoing discussions between the Cubs and Padres regarding right-hander Jake Peavy.

    The Cubs and Phils have both started talks with the Pads about Jake Peavy. (Jim McIsaac / Getty Images)

    The Padres like some of the Phillies’ young minor-league pitchers, major-league sources say, but the talks are only in the preliminary stages.

    The Cubs continue to seek a landing spot for right-hander Jason Marquis, whose $9.875 million salary would need to be cleared to create payroll flexibility for the addition of a left-handed hitter and/or Peavy.

    No Peavy deal will be completed until the Cubs’ new owner is decided, sources say. The new owner would need to approve the addition of Peavy, who is owed $63 million.

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  61. It could be that people just don’t feel like commenting. I voted for Happ and didn’t leave a comment as I’ve stated why I think d’Arnaud should be lower a couple times already.

    This new voting system is about as foolproof as the old system. Its just easier to count in the long run. Before, people could have simply changed their name to write in the same vote. I agree, it sucks if someone is doing this, but I can’t think of a better way.

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  62. Technically there is a fairly simple work-a-round for multiple votes on this Poll , although I don’t know anyone would bother and I wont publish what it is.

    HAPP again.. he must be close. I’ll be Honest.. I voted for him twice as a test so remove 1 vote.

    Getting back to catchers, I agree that D’Arnaud is propably higher Projected long term than Naughton, but at present I’d still rank Naughton ahead as a catcher and at this point and should start in A+ at least. D’Arnaud in Lakewood.

    Other than comparing Batting and Defensive skills between them on Projected ability. Naughton is also an exceptional manager of his Pitchers once he gets to know them at each level, he can be a true captain of a team at any level I believe. . I can’t remember Which Lakewood game or which pitcher but after a few deliveries, Naughton calls time and trots out to the mound.. A quick discussion with Pitcher ( I think Spanish speaking Pitcher talking to an Aussie catcher… GOD knows what the converstaion went like ) and he calls out the Pitching Coach. Pitcher is removed. He identified some issue with his pitcher, Injury or something before the Coaches did… Anyone remember being at that Blueclaws game?

    I rank both projected for MLB but in all honesty, D’Arnaud to go further and Naughton as a good solid back-up catcher.

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  63. would anyone not give up our top 3 prospects for peavy? i would in a second. omg, could you imagine peavy, hamels, meyers, blanton, happ with that bullpen. forget it. i don’t care who they put in left.

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  64. Peavy’s not coming here. He has a full no trade and the Phils are on the list. I don’t know why the Phillies would get involved in that, the Cubs and Padres have absolutley nothing in the form of players or prospects that they would be willing to give up.

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  65. It had to have either been Tejeda or Concepcion…I believe those are the two spanish speaking pitchers who went out with an injury this year. Tejeda had multiple issues though, so I would suspect it was him.

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  66. Ah yes, I would not give up their top 3 prospects for Peavy…

    I would easily include 1 of the top 3 plus another player or 2 in the top 15 but certainly would not give up 3 top 5 players…

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  67. 3up3kkk – your biased by your love of our system. not based on actual talent. peavy is a young cy young caliber pitcher. CC is a #3 best case scenario. marson is very good and i think worth the most. donald is a solid infielder. none of those guys win mvp of the league or cy young, which is what peavy did for pitchers.

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  70. No PP fan, I’m not biased about anything other than beingrealistic about the fact that there is more to consider than just how a player fits on the field in 09. And I’ll just put aside for a moment the rumblings about Peavy’s health and willl assume he is completely healthy.

    After the 09 season, Peavy’s contract jumps to $15m in 2010, $16m in 2011, $17m in 2012, and a $4m buyout in 2013 (or a $22m contract).

    While that contract isn’t terrible by today’s standards, it does create a $$$ situation moving forward with Myers becoming a FA in 2010 and Hamels going to start breaking the bank starting this year in arbitration. Factor in Howard’s coming FA and you start to run into a $$$ issue starting in 2010.

    By trading away Carrasco, Marson, and Donald, you have just removed ALL low-cost options at 3 major positions moving forward. Instead, you are left with Ruiz/Jaramillo as your catchers until D’Arnaud is ready, Another low cost fill-in at 3b for the next few years until Mattier becomes a viable player (if ever) and a hole in the middle of the rotation since Myers will be gone as a FA after 09 because they won’t pay 3 pitchers $15 million per year.

    Add in that Jamie Moyer will be retiring and Blanton will also be approaching free agency and now you have a need to 2 back of the rotation starters in 2010. Now maybe Bastardo/Drabek/Savery/Carpenter, etc. might be ready by then but I doubt it.

    So while the 09 team would certainly be terrific with a rotation of Hamels/Peavy/Myers/Moyer/Blanton by 2010 a rotation of Hamels/Peavy/Happ/Blanton/Bastardo? doesn’t seem quite as frightening. Add in that the line-up will include Ruiz/Jaramillo at C, A P. Feliz clone at 3b, and probably an OF without Werth (who is also a FA after 09 and won’t be resigned based on future budget projections) and the 2010 Phillies fall back into the pack in the NL East.

    Point is that you just can’t trade away all of your low budget talent without it having a major impact on your entire franchise going forward. And if Peavy goes down with an injury? ouch.

    Is it worth that gamble for 09? For me it isn’t.

    Note to PP. Sorry for the trade discussion on this thread but it didn’t make sense to put it over on the new trade thread…

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  71. D’Arnaud could be the better prospect, but I do not have a good enough read on him yet to say that, other than the bandwagon effect.

    So I go with Happ, who is the best remaining talent I fell I can judge reasonably well, without taking other poeple’s word for it.

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  73. “D’Arnaud could be the better prospect, but I do not have a good enough read on him yet to say that, other than the bandwagon effect.”

    Purely on the statistics. D’Arnaud had an .834 OPS in the NY-Penn League. That is good production on its face, but two things make it even more impressive. One, D’Arnaud was just 19 years old. He was the youngest player on the Williamsport roster. Second, the league OPS was .690, with a league slugging percentage at .365. That’s comparable to what you might have seen in the mid 1970s.

    From that base, a catcher slugging 100 points over the league average is quite impressive. And he’s a competent glove man. This isn’t a Jesus Montero situation where we assume he’ll have to move by the time he reaches the Majors. Catching is the natural position for D’Arnaud.

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  75. I voted for D’Arnaud yesterday, but I did it from a mobile device. Still, I’ll assume it counted and not vote again now, particularly since it looks like I’ll get to vote for D’Arnaud again in a day or two…

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  77. Amazing, there is 272 votes yet we averaged right around 100-130 in the first 7. Some of you are just pathetic that you feel the need to spam a vote so a guy can be ahead of another. GROW UP!

    You are ruining a GREAT site and P!ss!ng off the moderator not to mention many many HONEST posters.

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  79. 3up what is the point of having an Honest vote to see what the fans have to say if its faulty? There is no benefit for getting it right or cheating, the fact is people will do anything to take advantage of TRUST. IMO if people are just going to cheat then why even have 1 in the first place? the majority of the votes are going to be given by those willing to bypass the system. Why dont we just ask that person/persons who they want in what position and make it happen.

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  81. Another small point zero chance of resigning Myers next year
    he isnt worth the money unless he has a great year(no chance)
    The rotation has to be rebuilt not with Marquis

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  82. Alan: that makes sense, and I have followed D’Arnaud in te box scores and know his stats and his prominence. But the two things that get me excited are excellent performance at two different levels (especially if they are High A and AA) and getting a chance to see the player in action so I can get a feel for his swing, plate discipline, etc. So I was biased against Happ when compared to guys who fit that bill, such as Donald, Marson, Taylor. Now I am biased for him, with D’Arnaud still pretty far away fro bigs or high minors. I just take a somewhat conservative approach–I need the proof of continued, even greater performace as a player progresses, like Marson, etc. To me that’s when I know a guy will at least be a competitive major leaguer, if not better than average. When D’Arnaud does it at Clearwater, I will give him more love.

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