Phillies promote Amaro, lose Arbuckle

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The guy who is largely responsible for overseeing the drafting of the nucleus of this team was allowed to walk out the door, and baseball lifer Ruben Amaro Jr was promoted to General Manager today. At least he was only given a 3 year deal. I’m too tired to rant about how bad a decision I think this is, but until he screws things up in a big way, I guess I won’t complain. I’m assuming I’ll have material by February. Then again, I was seemingly wrong about Chuck LaMar as well, so who knows.

55 thoughts on “Phillies promote Amaro, lose Arbuckle”

  2. Screwing up doesnt matter. For the life of me I cant figure out what does. Wade wasted Millions and millions. One would think that mattered but seemingly not. Put Gillick sorta in that class too . The less he spent on a player the more he got.
    Mostly all Amaro has to do is sit next year and gear up for
    2010 when there will be better players in the NL east,
    but I see a suit trying to prove himself. Gads I hope I am wrong
    ps. another multihit day for JD

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  3. I am wondering out loud whether they will promote from within (Marti Wolever or LeMarr) or look to bring in an outsider who can look at this system with a fresh set of eyes.

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  4. I’m a big, big fan of Arbuckle and LaMar, but I guess I can’t complain until Ruben screws up big time. Ideally, he doesn’t, but I have the feeling he’ll do something in the first year to draw the ire of Phillies Nation.

    Lets just hope we continue the youth movement and invest in the pharm.

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  5. Congratulations to Mr.Amaro.It does seem strange that Mr. Arbuckle felt he had to resign.You would think the FO had enough lead time to handle this better but maybe they were just stuck between a rock and a hard place where Arbuckle was concerned.Awkward way to start the new era regardless.

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  6. Amaro’s been the 2nd in command for awhile now, so this isn’t a surprise. I have no reason to believe he’ll be a total failure, so I’ll reserve judgement. Also, if they promote LaMar to Arbuckle’s spot, there’s no reason to believe he can’t do it well. Just look at the last time he was with.

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  7. That should be team, not time. Also, as the article posted by Anon points out, our recent drafts have not exactly been rousing successes.

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  8. My hope is that after learning under perhaps the best “old school” GM left in the game, Amaro will combine what he learned from Gillick with some intelligent, “new school” analysis (let’s put that Stanford-educated mind to work, eh?). But after reading something like this, I’m not so sure…

    So what kind of GM will Amaro be? Probably more old-fashioned than you’d think for a 43-year-old new-waver. Amaro is a bright, Stanford-educated guy who sees the game with different eyes than his predecessor. But he’s more a fan of traditional baseball stats than he is of sabermetric spreadsheets. And he’s more likely to rely on his feel for players, the game and a city he grew up in than he is on numbers and statistical trends.

    Fingers crossed that Stark’s oversimplifying there, because “a fan of traditional baseball stats” doesn’t really make for a great general manager in the current climate.

    That being said, I’m willing to give him time. Should be an interesting offseason…

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  9. Mike Radano of the Camden County Courier Post said that he thought a big reason why Amaro got the job over Arbuckle is because Amaro is better with dealing with the salary structure of running a MLB team in this era of escalating contracts. He will have his hands full with all the arbitration cases coming up, especially Hamels & Howard.

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  10. One thing we have to rememeber.Arbuckle didn’t have the committment from the owners to go after high reward more money players. He couldn’t get Gibson sign, They took Mach as a cheap atlerntive. didn’t get workman , didn’t go after porchello. They didn’t go into the international market and spend money for top talent. I believe his hands were tied in a lot of cases.

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  12. Rocky- that may be very well true.

    That won’t happen with Amaro, if he insists.
    Bigger footprint in Latin America? If that’s what Amaro wants, he’ll get it.

    Waste Selig’s slot, if he so desires.

    He’s going to be far more independent than many think.

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  13. I’m not a pro by any means at assessing any of this stuff… but I think it only reasonable to give him a chance. And bashing the “old school” style of managing is kind of ridiculous at this point considering Pat Gillick just won us a World Series and he’s just about as old school as they get.

    That being said, it does kind of worry me that everyone is talking about how he can handle contracts and arbitration, citing that he got to sit in on Howard’s hearing and recent free agent signings. That hearing didn’t exactly go so well, did it? Not to mention we’re still paying Eaton $ 9 million a year to play A ball.

    Locking up Lidge went pretty well, though.

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  16. Yea, Gillick is remaining as an advisor. In what capacity? No one seems to know for sure.

    As for Amaro, time will tell how good he is as the GM. His first test will be in seeing who he hires to replace Arbuckle and how much of their scouting staff they retain.

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  17. I’m ok with amaro being the guy. He seems like a personable, smart man who has paid his dues. However, I really wanted Arbuckle to get the job. He obviously knows how to identify talent and that is so vital as a GM. I don’t know if Amaro can do that. One of the main problems that I have is that it was so obvious that the fix was in. Remember early this season, Amaro was constantly being quoted in the Inquirer/Daily News with barely a peep from Arbuckle. Whenever it called for a comment from the “GM”, (bugged me that Gillick didn’t speak more) Amaro was front and center. Then about mid-season or so Arbuckle started being put out there a little more ( I wonder if he complained that he wasn’t being given a chance). This is complete conjecture but there is one issue that hasn’t been brought up. Amaro is, how can put this, more aesthetically pleasing/camera ready. I’m not saying that Arbuckle is a troll or anything, just more a of a regular joe where Amaro is a thin, fit man who gives good camera. I really hope this didn’t play a role

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  18. It’s hard to judge Amaro when you can’t attribute particular deals or signings to him. What I know is since he has been involved in the organization the majority of ML levels deals have turned out negative while the core of your 2008 WORLD CHAMPIONS was built mostly through draft (Arbuckle).

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  19. I’m taking a wait and see outlook, unfortunately none of us know enough about Arby to know how he’d do as a GM. So lets wait and see what happens, most here bashed Gillick for his “dumb” and “awful” trades he made this year, and what do you know we won a world series.

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  20. I am interested in seeing if Amaro continues with the Jason Donald experiment as a utility infielder. Utility infielders do not hit .459 and lead their current league in hitting, total bases and OBP. He should be groomed as an everyday player at one position like third base. If he can’t play there try leftfield. They might need his righthanded bat in the everyday lineup or in a platoon role at CBP sooner than later. This guy is hitting so well it sorta reminds me of the “what to do with Ryan Howard era” until he spent one day in the outfield in spring training before it became apparent that Plan B, moving Thome, needed to be initiated.

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  21. The Phillies have had some player development success (not like the good old days when Dallas Green ran the show, but with 30 teams to stock, no one has that kind of depth anymore). I’d like to see them continue along those lines. Again, the prospect of Chuck LeMarr scares me. I’d like to see them promote from within and hire Marti Wolever

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  22. Also interesting are the spins(lies) on the Phillies website
    e.g. “Gordon first to test the market”
    Why not just say goodbye gracefully!

    I hope Conlin was right. A while ago someone on the radio
    said not to take prepared statement by Amaro too seriously
    I hope he is right too.
    The one thing that gives me hope is how quickly they fired
    Forbes

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  23. And remember one thing: We’re the World F***ing Champions (to quote Chase Utley). Even if Amaro screws up – and I’m reserving judgment on him – we still have that to hang our hats on

    – Jeff

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  24. I am not happy with Amaro as the GM but I want to wait to see who he brings in to replace Arbuckle who has done a pretty good job over the years. A younger more progressive thinking in Arbuckles position might actually catapult this team into multiple world series wins over the next few years. They need to look to teams like Boston who are good drafters and find a guy from that organization that is ready to be an Assitant GM and be in charge of the minor leagues. Remember the minor leagues are Amaro’s achilles Heel.

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  25. I supported Arbuckle for GM because I loved how he handled the drafting and minor leagues.

    I am disappointed he wasn’t given the job but I can see why he might have been. He has never really been involved with contract end of the big club in a meaningful way which may have played a part in the decision.

    Good Luck to Amaro. I would have chosen Arbuckle but Amaro has been an integral part of getting the phillies to where they are now so he has the same chance to be a good as Arbuckle does.

    I’m glad Gillick will be a phone call away for advice. That man knows what he is doing.

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  26. I suspect that Amaro was the choice all along and he was involved with lots of decisions this year. I’m surprised that so many of you wanted Arbuckle over Amaro when Amaro is very clearly a better choice to me. The GM today has to be a financial person. Look around baseball at all the young very intelligent GMs being hired. The dollars involved are very large and you need intelligence in that role. How can people not like LaMar? I don’t know that much about him but Tampa has produced so many great prospects from their early picks that you can’t see that as a negative. Of course Donald will remain in the utility role for awhile longer as the Phils try to figure out if he can help them next year. They’re not making him into an outfielder either, that wouldn’t make any sense. Nothing will suddenly change in the organization because promoting Amaro wasn’t a sudden dicision. I’m excited to hear that he likes Lou because this team will need new young blood next year to challenge some veterans and Happ, Donald, and Marson can provide it. I find it very unlikely that Dobbs, Stairs, and Jenkins (3 lefties) all sit on the bench next year. They’ll either move one of them or start one of them.

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  27. Anyone who is happy with Amaro hiring should read Randy miller. He was on today on wip. forget scouts staying ,they are mad at the handling of Arbuckle. Montgomery tried to get marty Wolver to sign a new contract he refused. He is leaving according to miller a lot of people in baseball. can’t understand the phillies thinking. Amaro only went to scouting meeting if he knew montgomery was going to be there.

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  28. This decision has been a fait accompli for probably 3 or 4 years now. Really, we don’t have any idea of how good Amaro is going to be – none at all. We don’t know because, unlike Arbuckle, with minor exceptions, we cannot see the fruits of his work. I am glad, however, that LaMar is there with Arbuckle’s departure – the team needs to retain a strong player development focus, particularly if they are not willing to spend the money that the top few teams spend (and, let’s face it, they are never going to pay what the Red Sox, Yankees, Mets or Dodgers pay – that’s not their M.O.).

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  29. I had a feeling if we lost Arbuckle we’d lose Woelver and the scouts. If that’s the case Amaro better have a good plan up his sleeve. That’s a huge loss.

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  30. Its controversial to say but LaMar and his peeps had a pretty good track record of scouting in Tampa. Sonnanstine, Shields, Upton, Crawford, D. Young, etc are all his picks. Sonnanstine and Shields were 13th and 16th round picks respectively. He also traded for Kashmir and his pick was traded for Garza so he basically had a part in the entire Rays starting staff. He did make some major blunders as GM but his scouting acumen isn’t half bad.

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  31. With all due respects to Randy Miller (whoever he is), it is foolish to think there wasn’t going to be ripple effects resulting from whoever was hired for the position. No doubt there are people in the organization who are loyal to Arbuckle and people who are loyal to Amaro. Regardless of who got the job, there are going to be changed within the organization. Until those changes actually happen, we really don’t know if they will be a good thing or a bad thing.

    What I do know is that up until the last year or 2, the Phillies minor league system was in the bottom third of baseball for quite some time so a little new blood into the system won’t necessarily be a bad thing.

    It is also a bit humorous to here many of the same people who complained about the Phillies FO and the lack of talent in the Phillies system now decrying the loss of some of that FO staff.

    I know the perception some have is that Amaro is an management tool but he was also Gillick’s main subordinate and was the guy who handled the contract negotiations. In reality, the GM’s main job is managing the roster and budget and Amaro was better prepared to handle that job. As long as he surrounds himself with quality talent evaluators, I don’t see a need to expect the worst until he proves otherwise.

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  32. I am not happy about Arbuckle’s departure either (I think he deserved the GM job), but LaMar’s presence makes it less likely that the farm will go downhill.

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  33. 3up3kkk-

    “It is also a bit humorous to here many of the same people who complained about the Phillies FO and the lack of talent in the Phillies system now decrying the loss of some of that FO staff.”

    Excellent point. The irony of this may be lost on some.

    However, I feel most people get on the Montys and Giles of the world and not on the Arbuckles and Amaros. Still, I think we need to give Amaro a fair shake here. He at least deserves the oppurtunity to prove to us, eitther way, if we were right about him.

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  34. Rocky your first problem is listening to anything Randy Miller says. He’s a glorified gossip columnist. He’s an awful, awful writer and is wrong 99% of the time.

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  35. B. you may be right about his writing. but the fact remains. Amaro’s job was just like wade under woodward.Contract negotiation. Amaro according to different source not miller said he wasn’t involved in scouting and didn’t go to meeting unless montgomery was there. He is arrogrant That is the word of baseball people around the league. It just bother me at the best time in 28 years we go and pick another yes man. Maybe Arbuckle wasn’t the best choice but you can’t tell me Amaro with a lack of personal decision and player development experience is the best person for the job.

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  36. A lot of guy’s on this site are going to be sick. Murphy just reported the phillies have lost les Walrond to marines.

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  38. Rocky- The Marines!? Really, didn’t know there was a draft.

    Seriously, can we release Eaton before we lose someone important.

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  39. “but LaMar’s presence makes it less likely that the farm will go downhill.”

    If you were a Rays fan I think you’d associate the persona of Chuck Lamar with the relationship between Ed Wade and Arbuckle. He seemed to do his part as a professional scout, but If he has any skills it was to do exactly what Ed Wade did- let the scouts do their job without overwelming resources. Other then that, he didn’t show any particular skills as a talent evaluator when it came to putting together a major league club.

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  41. RodeoJones I really need to learn to type and spell. Can we replace Walrond at triple a ? is Swindle still available maybe eaton can try to throw lefthanded to help us fill the void.Where is David West.

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  42. Arbuckle got better after Wade left big surprise. JD would have to settle for the Air Force
    BTW Does JD have pix of someone doing something. The shipped him back to AA to keep his era under 10 then took away starts from Outman.

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  43. As for Chuck LaMar, all of this is going to have to play itself out. The perception is (and who knows if it is correct) that LaMar is pretty strong in terms of developing talent. He was, however, an unqualified disaster as a GM – I don’t think that’s disputed. However, he’s not going to be a GM here – rather, he appears to be back in his element.

    Again, I am not happy that Arbuckle is leaving. I would have rather seen him promoted over Amaro and I agree that there is nothing apparent about Amaro that suggests to me that he will be anything special and there are a few warning signs, such as his arrogance (which is evident) and the fact that his handprints are almost invisible on the major league team (with the exception of the Lidge trade which we are told he orchestrated).

    However, until we’ve been through a year or two, there’s really no way to assess Amaro’s performance.

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  44. Will Amaro activate himself ala Roger Dorn if we’re short a spot on the roster? I would seriously pay money to see that.

    “Hey Amaro, go out there and take one for the team” -UC

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  45. Rocky, nothing personal, it was just funny. I’m not trying to pick on your or anything. I don’t think Walrond was any loss, we saw what he was capable of at the ML level.

    I think too much credit is being heaped on LaMarr for what the Rays did. I’ll have to find it somewhere but I think even on this site, when he was hired, James looked at all of his drafts. When you consider he was always picking in the top 10 his drafts weren’t that overwhelming. In hindsight the same thing could be said of Arbuckle. Outside of Howard I can’t think of a draft pick outside of the 1st round that was worth getting worked up over. Guys are supposed to make those 1st round picks. Those are the gimmies. The real depth in the minors is built in rounds 4-10 in my opinion.

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  46. If you seen a lot of my post I Started to beg people to stop with the Swindle and Walrond talk. They were posting like these two guys were great, Even after they came up people kept talking about them, it drove me crazy.

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  47. Not so – first round picks in baseball are NOT gimmes. Teams hit on those picks around 35-40% of the time. Arbuckle’s genius is that he hit on those picks 70% of the time – that’s what we’re losing and it’s a big deal. In the later rounds, his picks were nowhere near as good, although he was held back in the area of finances.

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  48. “Teams hit on those picks around 35-40% of the time. Arbuckle’s genius is that he hit on those picks 70% of the time – that’s what we’re losing and it’s a big deal.”

    That analysis should probably be expanded to consider the percentage when you consistently pick in the Top 15.

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  49. How much better a track record if he was given the finances to sign, J.d Drew, Gibson, Workman, Cooper Riley, Joe Nathan, Joe saunders, Rick Porcello, and some others. And if he was allow to go after top international talent.

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  52. I believe Walrond was claimed by the Blue Jays. JD Durbin was released but I don’t think he’s been claimed as of yet.

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