Second batch of callups

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The Phillies added the “real” prospects with this callup, bringing back Andy Tracy, Mike Cervanek, and Les Walrond. The most interesting aspect of the callups is the lack of Carrasco and Jason Jaramillo. Carrasco, who made his debut in 2004, needs to be protected on the 40 man after this season, so it was a matter of not starting his service time clock. Jaramillo is already on the 40 man roster. Gillick had this to say

In Marson, Phillies fans may well be getting a look at the catcher of the future — and that future could be next season. He hit .314 at Reading, was the starting catcher for the U.S. Team in the Futures Game in July and caught for the U.S. Olympic team in Beijing, China. Marson hit .308 in the Olympics as the U.S. earned a bronze medal.

“He might get some action, he might not,” Gillick said. “We don’t have any hesitancy of putting him into a game. He’s a good receiver, he makes good contact. I’d say he’s pretty close.

“We still like Jason (Jaramillo, the Phillies’ Triple-A catcher). He’s got a chance to catch in the big leagues. But Lou has forged ahead a little bit right now. We’re more confident at this point with Lou.”

This is interesting to me. Jaramillo is older and was already on the 40 man roster before they added Marson. Does this mean that Jaramillo gets traded this winter? Hard to see the Phillies moving Ruiz.

59 thoughts on “Second batch of callups”

  1. maybe they’re concerned with Carlos’ IP. 2007 was 140 and 2008 is already 151.1 admittedly i’m grasping at straws here to explain the bone headed move by the ML front office to not put this guy in the pennant race. If Niese for the Mets tongiht does well I’ll friggin scream.

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  2. Regardless of what Keith Law thinks, Carrasco has major league stuff, and finally seems to be stringing quality starts together. Carlos Carrasco has been dominant in 5 of his 6 International League starts. Even in his one bad start, Carlos struck out 7 batters in 5 innings. Since his one bad outing in Buffalo, Carlos hasn’t allowed any runs in two starts. In a minor league career plagued by inconsistency and rough promotions, his ability to bounce back after a bad start is very encouraging. Could it be that our precocious Carlos has matured into a legit starting pitcher at age 21? Perhaps a scout can explain why Carlos is not ready, but Carlos’s Lehigh Valley numbers are hard to ignore: 46 K and only 13 BB in 36 IP.

    Carrasco won’t come up until they’re ready to give him a start, and I’m not convinced that still won’t happen. They’d probably rather not give Carlos a lot of time to overthink his start by promoting him well in advance. With a Spanish speaking catcher in Ruiz and his former Reading catcher in Marson, they’re all set for Carrasco’s debut…I think its only a matter of time…

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  3. After Kendrick’s outing yesterday they have to be having second thoughts about not calling up Our CC who has almost out pitched the Real CC. in August. Albeit Ours was at AAA. Our CC: G 6; IP 36.2; SO 46; ERA 1.72. The Real CC: G 6; IP 48.1; SO 51; ERA 1.12. Too bad Our CC will not get a chance to see what he can do in the Bigs in Sept. but he should do wonders to boost Spring Training season ticket packages in 09.

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  4. Regardless of what Keith Law thinks

    He ranked him #53 overall last year.

    He’ll probably rank him higher this year.

    People are so galled by the fact that the two times he saw Carrasco pitch in person his changeup wasn’t great. Its really hard to believe a scout could not love every Phillies prospect he sees every time he sees him. He should have written how awesome Carrasco’s changeup was those two days, even if it wasn’t, just to appease us here on a fan site.

    This was from his Top 100 writeup of Carrasco

    The Phillies’ system is not strong, and Carrasco is the one legitimate above-average prospect in it at the moment. Carrasco’s best attribute is his easy velocity, mostly 90-94 and touching 95 at times, with fringe-average command. His secondary stuff is a work in progress, with his short downer curveball ahead of his changeup, on which he slows his arm too much. Because his arm works well, it’s possible to project him as someone who’ll have three average pitches down the road, and he might pick up a few more miles an hour as he fills out or if he lengthens his stride a bit, all of which would make him a solid No. 3 starter in the majors.

    His view on him has been extremely consistent. His view is different from Baseball America’s. I wonder how recent their info on him is, and who they are getting it from.

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  7. interesting take on outman from a scout, they called him another alan embree…i’m ok with that. he’s much less valuable as a stiuatonal reliever. basically he wont be missed w/ carrasco/kendrick/happ etc who are all legit future sp’s

    also mr cal league fluke matt spencer finished strong with another hr to end his regular season. so he hit 8 total and hit .330+ the power is t here, but the high k’s and low walks will expose him at higher levels

    sorry for the updates, just letting everyone know that this deal wasnt as bad as everyone is making it seem. with the phillies depth they were expendable

    In 151/3 innings at Sacramento, Outman allowed nine hits and five walks and struck out 15. Opponents had a .167 average against him.

    One scout said that Outman could be an Alan Embree-in-training, a hard-throwing lefty reliever. Outman also has started at both Sacramento and Double-A Midland, and though he is expected to provide bullpen help this month, Outman could be an option in the rotation at some point next year.

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/09/01/SP2312MCHD.DTL

    http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Matthew%20Spencer&pos=1B&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=460671

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  8. Phuturephillies Do you have any read on why the phillies didn’t call up jaramillo. He is a experience catcher. Do they have to pay him more if he is called up.

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  9. Carrasco has been slighted, but wow is that just plain crushing to Jaramillo? We knew Marson had better overall career prospects, but to say that Marson has passed him by enough in current day performance, that they won’t bother bringing Jaramillo up for a cup of coffee has got to be utterly demoralizing. If they really feel that way about him, the smart management brings him up, lets him do some defensive catching, ballyhoos how much better he is than during ST, and then trades him. The Phillies method is to crap all over him and then trade him for a bag of used balls from a minor league game.

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  10. Phillies Gilick says Jaramillo has a chance to catch in the Big Leagues. But not over Coste or Ruiz? You’ve got to be kidding me. I’d take a duo of Marson and Jaramillo over Ruiz and Coste anyday. Two young catchers with lots of potential equals better chance of taking the NL East for years to come. Don’t you think?

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  11. Allentown I totally agree. Why slap a kid in the face. Give him some MLB face time and let another team scoop him up and let him earn some big league time. He’s at least earned that, right? I don’t believe Marson has done that much more than Jaramillo to earn a leap frog over him. That is just downright wrong by Philly management. Unreal…. Oh, and Carrasco is good!

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  13. Yeah, my issue with the organization’s handling of Jaramillo is less about the personal slap in the face and more about how they’ve potentially degraded an asset. I never saw JJ as either a likely starting catcher or the prime piece in a trade, but he looks like a decent backup or a somewhat appealing second or third player in a deal. The decision not to call him up might render him quad-A at best in the eyes of other teams.

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  14. It’s really screwed up. Philly needed to get him off that awful AAA squad and give him time in Philly to get polished. I believe he’s caught two of the worst pitching staffs over the past two seasons. He’s getting a raw deal…….

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  15. JJ was in a tough situation this year with a poor AAA org. he did what he could w/ what he had to work with. It’s only going to make the kid more hungry to prove the org. they made a mistake.

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  16. A lot of people who follow the minors on this site know about jaramillo. So if someone can tell me. Do you think he can do better than ruiz who if you take his stats over five hundred at bats. He would hit 6 homeruns and have forty six rbi. to me that is terrible. Also how much better is ruiz defense

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  17. I’m shocked (maybe that’s too strong a word) that JJ didn’t get the call-up. I understand that 4 catchers is too much but in Gillick’s words, “He might get some action, he might not” when talking about Marson, leaves me puzzled. If he’s up to get a taste of the big leagues without any pressure then why not bring Jason up too.

    Someone has to be traded next year, unless Coste won’t be back. I think Coste can still play although he’s not a full time catcher. JJ is going to rot on the farm. He needs to be showcased, if he’s the guy to get traded? AAA isn’t showing anyone anything. For the record, I would be happy with Marson and Jaramillo as the catchers for the Phils in a year or two.

    CC will be in Philly sometime next year. I wouldn’t throw CC into a must win MLB game this year.

    If it came down to super-prospect Eaton or the ball boy for a must win, I’m taking the ball boy every time.

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  18. I’m shocked at the outrage over not calling up JJ considering the man-love for Marson on this site (myself included).

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  19. I said this in another post. I think they are showcasing Marson as trade bait. Why? Because if they need to make a big trade this winter, he is the guy that is most expendible. They have two legitimate catching prospects in D’Anaurd and Valle (three if you include Naugton). Further, they would never get value for Coste or Ruiz in trade. So they are playing down Jaramillo and showcasing Marson. The bonus (and not the primary goal) is that they get the benefit of Marson’s bat for the rest of the season.

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  20. I should add they would never get value for Jaramillo in trade either, because he would be lackluster next to Marson.

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  21. Duke nothing personal. You can’t be really serious. At this point you have your best players up and worry about the off season trade market later.

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  22. i don’t understand all of this slap in the face talk. this is not a charity league. this is major league baseball. they are not going to carry 4 catchers. ruiz is better defensively and coste is better offensively. marson is better at both. end of story.

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  23. Folks, the pining for Jaramillo is downright puzzling. He’s a potential major league back-up catcher. A guy who plays once a week, hits .225, and gets 125 ABS. I’m sure he’s a nice guy and all, but pardon me if I don’t shed any tears if he is passed over for a guy who has sound defense and can probably hit second in the major league line-up next year. This is hardly a worthy topic of debate, but, hey, we’ve all got our own burning issues.

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  24. I HATE to say it but i remember parts of the 1950 last game
    In all that time we have never had a star catcher.
    MARSON trade bait u kidding
    for GARCIA AGAIN

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  25. catch,

    I agree 100%. Where was all the love for Jaramillo all during the year? I agree he’s a backup that if he was in the majors he’d be doing a pretty good Ruiz imitation and all those on the boards of the ML team would be screaming to get rid of him. Next year should be Marson (assuming ST goes well) and Ruiz (one offensive and one defensive catcher) Sorry Chris, its a business.

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  26. Also, I cannot for the life of me believe they are showcasing Marson for a trade. The team needs a solid starting catcher starting, oh, about two years ago. He provides that option. If D’Arnaud and others prove to be stars, then they can trade Marson at a later date, but D’Arnaud is at least two, and probably three, years away from being a major league player and that assumes that he continues to play well as he progresses.

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  28. Actually, if it were me, if Marson lights it up in ST I would keep Coste (bat off the bench is a huge plus, as are the leadership skills) and dispatch Ruiz (unless he turns around next spring in a big way). I’d keep Jaramillo in the wings in case of an emergency. I don’t know that there’s really much difference between Ruiz and Jaramillo, at least offensively. Defense may be different – I just don’t know.

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  29. courier lou,

    stocker for abreu? maybe very good not great.

    PP feel free to delete this as its not relevant to the topic at hand.

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  31. We should of had answers by now after all star break They should of drop “SO-SO” and carrued 3 catcher to look at MARSON. But as usual they had their minds made up with
    no sound logic

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  32. It did not help that Jaramillo was the primary catcher on two consecutive AAA pitching staffs that finished dead last in league ERA. Also I would guess that Brett Myers gave Gillick a earful after his July 2nd game with Lehigh Valley when he was charged with a loss in which Jaramillo committed a passed ball, a throwing error and Myers was charged with a wild pitch all in the 5th inning. Ater Myers was pulled Jaramillo was charged with two more errors and gave up two stolen bases in that game. The second and final time Myers pitched for the Pigs 5 days later, John Suomi caught and Myers went 7.1innings to pick up the win.

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  33. I agree with Duke, if only because right now Marson makes the best sense as a trading chip. Even if it’s not the Phillies plan, it makes sense. Marson has been hyped all year, and his stock will never be higher.

    Consider:
    Between Ruiz/Coste/Jaramillo, they have enough average/below average catching that is has some value to them, but is basically worthless on the trade market.

    Marson of course has potential value to the team, but he could probably help the team more next year as the centerpiece to acquire either a legit 3B bat, or offensive pop to replace Burrell or Howard (not unreasonable that they would try to unload the latter).

    D’Arnaud is the real deal, and will be competing for a ML spot in 2-3 years.

    Add it all up: Make due with the mediocrities for a while, flip the hyped prospect, and wait on D’Arnaud.

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  34. they will NOT trade marson. that makes no sense at all.

    That’s akin to trading Utley because we’ve got a decent player in Polanco. Didn’t happen then and won’t here. Lou Marson will be either starting in 2009 or an early call up (as long as he doesn’t struggle in ST and/or Lehigh Valley which with his plate discipline i don’t expect to be an issue. His OBP is astronomical, especially for a catcher. While he does need to develop power that will come in time.

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  35. BTW When was the last great PHILLIES trade

    Lidge?? Also id GAURANTEE that 99% of the JJ love posters are all the same person…A bunch of names ive never seen all posting the same thing…just my take

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  36. I don’t think its a matter of “JJ love” posters. Here’s the problem.

    He turns 26 in October. He’s on the 40 man roster. He just spent his 2nd full season in AAA. What do we do with him? Do we just keep him in AAA? Coste really hasn’t done anything to merit removal from the 25 man roster. Ruiz had a poor season, but Manuel seems enamored with him. Marson certainly has the better long term prospects. That also raises an interesting point. Does Marson stay at Reading next year? You have to think he needs to be catching 5-6 days a week, and if hes in AAA, where does that leave Jaramillo?

    Jaramillo’s profile is as a fringe starter/backup catcher. Catching is such a weak position across baseball. The Phillies are fortunate to have Marson and Jaramillo both close to MLB ready, along with a cheap, decent catcher in Ruiz on the ML roster. The question is, how do you maximize this situation?

    To me, the logical solution is trading Ruiz this winter for either a good prospect or a good ML part and using Jaramillo and Coste to start next year. I think an even timeshare probably makes sense. Jaramillo should be able to replicate the line Ruiz put up this year, and he’s capable of a little more. If he falters, you have Marson waiting in AAA. While I want the Lou era to begin as much as anyone, the Phillies have to maximize value here. Bringing up Marson now and basically degrading a valuable asset in Jaramillo with the remarks made doesn’t make a lot of sense.

    And please, lets not talk about Valle and D’Arnaud as the answers to any problems, considering both guys are in the lower depths of the system.

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  37. rocky,
    if your right that money and value doesnt matter, and the phils are just “playing their best players right now,” then where is Carassco?

    He is in triple A because money and player value does impact decision making. The marson situation is just more convenient because he is the better hitter. Carrassco is not at the hieght of his potential value. You never sell low.

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  38. I think they should trade Jaramillo (higher value) if Marson wins the ML job and send Ruiz backdown to AAA as a 3rd catcher or until he starts hitting again and regains some value. I think someone has to be moved to make room at ML and AAA for three catchers. I don’t think you should trade Ruiz right now as his value is at an all-time low. Would an AL team bite on Coste? Then we could have Jaramillo/Ruiz at ML and Marson waiting at AAA should he be needed.

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  40. i like PP’s solution…although that would require a whole lot of logic on the part of the front office. the thing is that they’ve devalued JJ so much at this point from this move (although its logical from the standpoint of pinch-hitting, marson is going to give you much better at-bats). i think JJ is similar to ruiz, little less on defense and hopefully a little more on O. coste i think you have to keep around, because of his great bat. he gets to start once or twice a week.

    i think that marson is just so tantalizing from an offensive standpoint as a number 2 hitter. to have a patient .400 OBPer in that spot, consistently on base for utley and howard, is a recipe for success. not to mention it strengthens the bottom of the lineup as a result.

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  41. PP Fan —
    I don’t get your talk of charity league at all. Yes, baseball is a business. But it is a business built 100% upon young athletes. Guys who are very concerned about their careers and guys who can be emotional. If nothing else, it is bad business to so visibly diss a guy like Jaramillo. It hurts his morale, it hurts his trade value, it makes the Phillies look for yet another time like an organization that treats its player talent like crud. Machine shops are busineses too. That doesn’t mean they order their workers not to grease the machinery, in order to earn an extra buck or two today. Good businessmen safeguard their assets. In addition to be a human being, who can be assumed to have a reasonable level of sensitivity, Jaramillo is an asset. he is among our top 20 prospects. Their is no excuse for treating him the way he was treated.

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  42. I’m not shocked and appalled Jaramillo was passed over but I do think he should have gotten called up too.

    This highly public vote of no confidence has a chance of wrecking Jaramillo for the organization. Even if you don’t see room for him, you don’t want to throw him away like so much garbage. He is a valuable asset and should be treated that way.

    If you are looking to trade Jaramillo, the best thing to do is treat him like he’s more valuable than he really is and act like you don’t really want to part with him. Snubbing him like this makes other teams wonder if he’s really a prospect worth acquiring. Not smart. We already know Marson is a hot commodity, leaving him down wouldn’t have hurt his prospect status but leaving Jaramillo down is a clear negative signal. It devalues him for sure. Other teams won’t see this and then bid high for him, that’s certain. I’m not sure a handful of Marson appearances are worth the damage to Jaramillo’s confidence and value. You could argue that Marson’s value rises even as Jaramillo’s drops so it’s a wash, but what good is that if Jaramillo is the one you’re trying to trade? You only hope the Phillies don’t just give him away because they assume they just don’t need him.

    To those who want to trade Marson, forget it. This promotion isn’t just to showcase Marson at Jaramillo’s expense, its a statement that Marson is our catcher of the near future.

    Most likely Coste will be traded in addition to Jaramillo. Ruiz hasn’t helped his cause by starting out so slow at the plate but he plays his position very well, the pitching staff likes him and he’s probably going to hit more like he has in the second half than he did in the first. Since Marson is a rookie and may struggle at times with the adjustment, Ruiz is a guy you want around for another season at least. Carlos doesn’t seem like a guy who will rebel against becoming a backup. He won’t like it but he’ll still play hard and might just help bring out the best in Marson. Carlos still has a lot he can teach Marson about the staff. If he does end up backing up Marson, it will be good for overall depth at a premium position. And if Ruiz has better numbers next year, you’re more likely to get a better package for him. Certainly the timing would be better knowing Marson really is ready to take over.

    Meanwhile, Coste can’t take over full time if something should happen to Marson, so he’s the one more likely to go. Only problem is Coste swings a good bat, he has a good personality and a sound baseball mind: he’d be missed, especially if Marson struggles. Then again, he’s 35.

    Ideally, the Phillies get equal value back for Jaramillo and Coste via trades. Marson and Ruiz can handle catching duties for three more years, at which point d’Arnaud may be knocking on the door. And 3 years is not soon enough to worry about him being blocked. Anything can happen in 3 years, so why trade him now when you “think” you’re flush? Besides, d’Arnaud should continue to add value as he progresses.

    The only argument I can see for not calling up Jaramillo is keeping him from information about our pitchers that might help his new club against the Phillies. Maybe it makes a little sense to keep him from the inner circle if you’re just going to trade him to a competitor. But IMO this isn’t a good enough reason to offset the knock on his overall value.

    Bottom line: Marson is clearly the better prospect and I’m thrilled to see him up even if he did eat Jaramillo’s lunch to make it. I just hope the Phillies manage to maximize the value of their assets. Too often they seem openly eager to dump guys for anything they can get. This is not a good way to maximize value in trades.

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  44. As I see it, the bottom line is this: the Phils lose nothing from calling up Jaramillo, since he’s already on the 40-man and burning up option years. (Unless you think paying him a 1-month portion of a MLB salary or giving him 26 days of service time is an issue.) So it’s just plain strange that they wouldn’t call him up for the reasons mentioned above: (1) so as not to completely deflate his perceived value; and (2) as another catcher should the Phils get involved in a wacky game like the Mets one from last Tuesday.

    I was also wondering… why call up Walrond and not Swindle as well? Neither was impressive in their MLB debut, but at least Swindle could potentially have some value as a LOOGY in September. Although Walrond’s MLB splits make him look (deceivingly, I might add) like a LOOGY, he clearly isn’t. If you’re willing to give the old journeyman southpaw another go, why not give the young junkballer another go as well — especially since he’s already on the 40-man?

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  45. Before we start talking about our future we need to see what Marson is capable of doing? Could he be another Victor Martinez? Great hitter ,but lack luster behind the plate! I saw Marson this summer and he seemed a bit Robotic and not as smooth as Jaramillo/Ruiz or even Suomi. The kid needs 2 more seasons at least in order to become a legit contender for the big league starting catcher. Again, Marson is a below avg. receiver and as far as game-calling he’s not mentally ready!

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  46. All the scouting reports have indicated that sweet lou is at least adequate behind the dish, with the athletic ability to continue improving.

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  47. X factor, we are not going to get anything close to what either Coste or Jaramillo is worth. Ruiz is not worth more than a shot in the dark low A prospect. “Ideally” we could trade all three for Joe Mauer. But all three together are not worth what Marson will bring in trade value. Dont be too upset when we deal Marson for a 3rd baseman this winter.

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  48. “Dont be too upset when we deal Marson for a 3rd baseman this winter.”

    Feliz is signed through next season. There’s basically no chance Marson will be traded for a 3B this winter.

    “Ruiz is not worth more than a shot in the dark low A prospect.”

    Get a clue. Seriously.

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  49. Ive posted just recently regarding the whole call-up situation. The whole issue was mind boggling at first and after reading all the posts it still is. Maybe to most of the us philly fans we dont understand whats going on with the catching situation. I beleive from a front office standpoint they should make clear what the plan on doing with Jaramillo. The kid clearly busted his ass since he was drafted and has more than proved all the expectation that was put on him. Catching is the most underrated position in the MLB and I give ALOT of credit to those individuals that can be above average. JJ deserves a shot bottom line. The point that was mentioned “he’s caught two of the worst pitching staffs over the past two seasons” was an excellent point to bring up. Anyone who endures that kind of staff and is STILL able to put up those numbers is deserving of an oppurtunity. Excellent play calling and a hell an arm the kid has a rocket. He endured hell in Batavia and Ottawa talk about your Aces up there. (Sarcasim) For goodness sakes MARSON was even stunned he got called up. There’s BELOW average Triple A Catching being called up all over the league but not here in Philly, its pretty disturbing. Im not particular on any single player but im a fan of philadelphia, but and im a fan of those who are deserving of a MLB oppurtunity. Im embarrased of the Front office and downright dissapointed, have some sense. You drafted this kid TWICE not once TWICE once in high school and then in college at LEAST have enough sense to do the right thing.

    Jaramillo this year he hit a very respectable .266 with EIGHT homeruns and 39 RBI’s and further more a Switch hitting catcher with power from the left hand side. ( Dont we need that in Philly?!) If you dont beleive me check his stats from College all the way up to now, he’s been a soild player all around. Enough said.

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  51. Want to talk about a slap in the face. In July the Phillies didn’t give permission to Team USA talk to Jaramillo about this summer Olympics. So they went to second best, Marson. The Phillies replied to Team USA saying that they needed him for potential trade bait or back up to Ruiz and Coste. Terrible Management!!! I hope for the best for Jaramillo, but he deserves a chance. Phillies aren’t going to give him that!

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  52. xfactor, I tend to agree with your posts, but I think you are way off on the trade value of Ruiz. Yes, he’s worth more than “dark low A prospect”, but how much more? Catchers like Ruiz are a dime a dozen

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  53. PLEASE PhilsPhan61
    if busting your ass got u to the majors there would be
    500 more players in the major. even i can bust my ass
    so what. only not busting your ass is noteworthy

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  55. i had an epiphany of sorts last night watching some other ML games and how badly some catchers block the plate and apply tags. Defensively in this category, Ruiz is very very good and I do worry about how Lou will do there if thrust into the limelight. The ML club’s outfielders likely lead the majors in assists and a good reason for that is Ruiz (although his bat is absolutely horrible this year).

    Also rumor persists about Donald coming soon. Wonder what’s taking so long if they are actually going to do it. giving him some rest so he can sit on the bench? I can’t believe the ML club put Bruntlett as a defensive replacement for Burrell with a 4-0 lead. Why not give Golson a shot against the Nats?

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  56. NO more arguing Marson is up in the bigs and Jaramillo is getting ready for the ST battle. GoodLuck Philly w/ Marson,/Ruiz/Coste.

    By the way if the Philies like Ruiz Defensively, why not go out and get a guy who can somewhat hit his self out of a wet paper bag w/ defensive skills?? I say start Marson if they have the faith in him!

    Coste is not a good hitter other teams throw him a bone because they read his book and feel sorry for him.

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  57. management doesn’t take chances. hopefully with new management we will see young players next year

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  58. Another point in judging MARSON(HAPP &CARRASCO also)
    Had they been brought into the major they would of been
    improved for one by being exposed to JAMIE MOYER the guru
    of young players
    I dread the long winter with no baseball sigh

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  59. no word on Donald? There was word/rumor on several fronts that he was being called up? Maybe they’re working on his 3B fielding, hmmmm??? Any chance we see him at 3B in the AFL?

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