Andrew Carpenter called up

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There ya go.

First baseman Andy Tracy’s stay with the Phillies was short-lived.

The Phillies designated him for assignment today and purchased the contract of pitcher Andrew Carpenter from Double A Reading.

Carpenter is being called up largely because the length of last night’s game leaves the bullpen thin. It seems unlikely that Clay Condrey would be available and the Phillies used everyone else. Tonight’s starter, Kyle Kendrick, ended up warming up in the 13th inning and threw about 40 pitches in the bullpen.

Carpenter is 6-8, with a 5.67 ERA in 16 games for Reading.

102 thoughts on “Andrew Carpenter called up”

  1. this is a head-scratcher for me, i figured it woulda been Benson… good luck to Carpenter and i am interested to see him pitch.

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  2. this is an odd move….benson would be a better choice….he has been pitching well for the pigs of late and has plenty of big league experience

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  3. may have something to do with when they last pitched , in fact Carpenter may only be here for a day or 2

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  4. benson has pitched well as far as the er against him but he has given up a ton of hits and batters are hitting .336 off him in triple A, i think with the way carpenter has pitched for reading since his return from clearwater, in 3 of his 4 starts from coming back he has gone atleast 7 and only given up 3er combined and has limited the hits as well, I think they have given up on benson and want to see what they have with carpenter

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  5. It may be because of timing of who pitched more recently and would be available to pitch now. I don’t know when Benson pitched last.

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  6. thought somebody would be called up. good luck to andrew! wonder what his status is as far as “requiring” a callup due to minor league service time. I’d love to see him shut down the Mets and have them know we have a kid in AA that can do what their entire bullpen can’t!

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  7. This has to be with an eye on the exhausted bullpen. Carpenter could be called on to go anywhere from 1 to 5 innings if necessary, and I have to think it’s probably a short-term move.

    Quite a roller coaster ride for Andrew this year. Congrats to him and best of luck in Philly, however long his stay is.

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  8. 4 of Carpenter’s 5 starts since his “recall” to Reading have been solid. He had one blowup against Trenton but if you throw that out his average start is 7IP 1ER 2BB 6K’s.

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  9. Benson has been mediocre to poor in LV. Carpenter since his recall from the minors has gone 4-1 3.44 ERA, and had one game where he went 6 Innings giving up 8 Runs, if you take that out he’s been great.

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  11. Sucks for Benson but good news for Carpenter. Hopefully he pitches like he did in Spring Training if he ends up being called on.

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  12. Evidently Benson can only start as he requires a long time to warm up. The Phillies probably think Carpenter presents flexibility and could serve in long relief.

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  13. Apparently Benson has no options either so he’d have to stay up with the team…that sounds accurate enough considering.

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  14. Considering the move was done in case the team needs emergency innings tonight, it’s probably best they didn’t call up the guy who is recovering from major arm surgery.

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  16. Oh, NEPP’s explination makes even more sense.

    Also, Carpenter wasn’t on the 40 man roster, so we get a nice little practical example of the rules that Phuture laid out the other day. To make room, the Phils simply put Zagurski on the 60 day DL.

    If Carpenter goes back down (not a given with roster expansions coming up), he will have used an option year.

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  18. actually they have 39 spots I believe because they DFA Tracy he is not on the 40 man anymore I believe they wanted to a spot available if they added a bat before Sunday

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  20. As padraic noted, sending Carpenter down would burn an option year. There is no reason to do that being this close to September 1st. I assume he is up for the rest of the year. He might get an inning or two in the next couple of days, but I would guess he is ticketed for mop-up duty as an extra arm the rest of the season.

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  21. I thought that was the reason they brought him up- they’d rather burn his option year than anyone elses.

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  22. Bringing him up does not burn an option. Sending him down THIS year (i.e. in the next 5 days) would. No reason to do that.

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  23. Here we go with option years again. Won’t this year be burnt if he’s not on the 25-man next year, or does that just burn next year? hmm.

    Anyway, lucky it was him called up, Benson’s line tonight – 4IP 9H 8R 6ER 3BB 1SO 2HR

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  24. haha, so much for that post yesterday.

    If he is not sent down this year, then 2008 does not count against his 3 options. But if he doesn’t make the team out of ST in 2009, he’d be optioned down, and 2009 would count.

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  25. Dude, that was an awesome post, but I’ve only got so much retention capability. 🙂

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  26. Carpenter looks like a fringe major leaguer at this stage, so having the extra option year will be a plus. I could easily see him bounce up and down for the next few years, even if he progresses to the point where he is a rotation candidate. No doubt he will spend most of next year in AA or AAA, but I guess the team figured it was worth the risk of starting his option clock next year.

    I have no idea how they feel about Carrasco, who could actually be a useful arm in September if used properly. I wonder if this means they have decided against recalling Carrasco. I assume they want to limit the mileage on his arm and care a little less about wear and tear on Carpenter.

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  28. So Condrey AND Romero weren’t available tonight, and they bring up a replacement for Condrey? Yikes.

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  31. yea, he has a pretty solid changeup, by the way the mets were the kings of bloop hits tonight geez man,

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  32. At the beginning of the year, James asked us who will be the first call ups to the big club. Who picked Harman and then Carpenter as the first two “prospects”? The payout in Vegas on this one is very high.

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  34. I think it’s pretty safe to say when you look at the track record of Moyer and Kendrick they have the propensity to lose control of a game early we’re going to need in the Sept1 call up some guys that can warm up quickly and go long.

    I personally would love to see Carrasco come up and be that guy that is ready to go behind Moyer/Kendrik and you may as well throw Blanton into that mix as well.

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  37. I’m sure we’ll be seeing Carpenter again soon. I imagine they plan to recall him when the rosters expand.

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  38. So this burns an option year for Carpenter…kinda silly eh? Why not just bring up Castro yesterday instead? A lefty would have been more useful anyway as Romero couldn’t go and the Mets apaprently have 384 Lefthanded bats on their bench.

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  40. Shot in the dark: Eyre is unavailable and Romero might still be too…or they’re worried enough about Romero’s arm to really want another lefty just in case. I’m sure they were aware of the option year issue when they made the decision.

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  41. Anyone else think that bringing up Carrasco would’ve been the better option? Give Charlie another legit RHP to call-upon if needed, as well as limit the # of innings he throws the rest of the way?

    I think if used properly, Carrasco can be a big help for them down the stretch. And it would provide him with some serious experience.

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  42. As pp said, what a dumb, unnecessary move to burn an option here. They would not have used Carpenter in a setup situation yesterday anyway. They should have just called Castro up anyway because he was already using an option.

    It is a long way off, but I suspect there is a good chance we might lose Carpenter on waivers in 2011 because of this. I’d put this on Gillick and/or Amaro as they are supposed to track the consequences of these moves.

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  44. They had Walrond in the mix too. There was just no reason to burn an option here. I hope they took my idea of designating Carpenter for assignment and then assigning him back to the Phillies on September 1. Not sure it is legal and the news story does use the word “option” unfortunately.

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  45. There’s gotta be a good reason and I think my theory on the leftys makes sense, Thoughts?

    If the Phillies think this way, then I think I have been giving them way too much credit for even understanding the basics of running a ballclub.

    If Romero and Eyre are unavailable, then you use a RHP who is available. Risking losing a pitcher for 3 years of cost controlled service time because you can’t wait 3 days to add a LOOGY is a dumb baseball move. Why didn’t they just call up Castro instead of Carpenter in the first place? Castro has started quite a bit this year, he could have gone 3 innings if needed.

    Edmonds and Fukudome are the only two lefties of any consequence on the Cubs roster, and Fukudome has struggled mightily over the last 2-3 months. This was a dumb move. The Phillies spinmasters who have infiltrated the blog of late (not you NEPP) can defend it, but its a dumb move.

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  47. I was at the game last night. What doesn’t make sense to me is this. Anyone who followes the phillies knows Kendrick has struggle with lefthanders all year.If you have listen to the radio broadcast they keep saying he has to learn to throw a changeup to lefthanders. That why the mets loaded up with all lefthanded bats expect for wright. The phillies knew this in advance so why not a lefthander instead of carpenter.And excuse me for asking this question about pro ball when you go into the seventh inning and have a two run lead on a great pitcher like santana, Your first two men get on base and are slow runners. why isn’t victorino bunting them to third to force the mets hand. They would have walked werth and we would have had felix up with one out base loaded and infield up. Force a great pitcher to make great pitches. Manuel doesn’t know what he doing as a manager.

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  48. Carpenter sent back down…like I said, they chose him because they don’t care about his options.

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  49. The move might not make sense, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that he won’t have options in 2011. I’d say there is a fair to solid chance he doesn’t pitch for the big league club in 2009, in which case he would still have two op. years remaining.

    Now, if they call him back up in September, and then send him down next March, well, then that will be stupid.

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  50. Just sending Carpenter down to the minors after Spring Training next year will burn his second option. The only ways to not use an option are to have him on the 25-man roster all year (not likely) or outright him on waivers to the AAA roster (which would only happen if there is a 40-man crunch).

    Basically Carpenter needs to make the team in 2011 or he will be gone like Germano last year. He is not a great prospect but this was such an unnecessary move to burn the option.

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  51. Rocky – you’re right. You have to remember that’s the great thing about the Phils. They always seem to have enough idiots running around to make bad moves for years and years, no matter who’s fault the last bad screwup was. Maybe they didn’t realize Carlos Delgado was ‘hot’ and should have brought up a lefty already on the roster, like Fabio Casto. Oh wait…. Now we have the Cubs, who have mostly right-handed hitters. Maybe they shoulda kept Carpenter up instead.

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  52. You’re right andy, and just a few days after getting a refresher on all of this!

    Okay, so it doesn’t make sense. The only possible argument I can think of is* as follows.

    1) They were worried about a disaster last night where Kendrick gets rocked early and they need like 5-6 innings out of one pitcher.

    2) Castro has been in the pen for a bit and Walrond can’t be recalled because it hasn’t been 10 days since he was sent down.

    3) Carpenter can’t throw back-to-back days and they needed help tonight.

    *This is pure Devil’s advocacy, BTW. If everyone on the board were talking about how great this move was, I’d be complaining about the option.

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  53. Maybe option 1 makes a little sense if that they thought they might need 5-6 innings in a blowout. Of course, the devil’s advocate on that point would be if you are getting blown out, it does not really matter who gets the innings. They could have brought up Eaton or Benson to be an emergency 5-inning arm if they had to.

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  54. i don’t understand all of the venom on this move.

    upside: he pitches some innings this year and saves a priority arm for a big game. we are in the heat of a pennant race and one run in one came might be the difference.

    downside: if carpenter can’t make the bigs by 2011 that would mean he would be 26 years old and have spent 2.5 years a AA and AAA. at that point, who cares?

    i don’t get why people are so upset about these type of moves. it kinda reminds me of the jokers who were upset about that kid we gave up for scott eyre (who by the way is pitcing great for the phillies). i can’t even remember the “prospects” name.

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  55. Yeah it just really makes no sense.

    Castro is now in AAA again, his last 2 appearances were starts where he went 5 and 4 innings, the appearance before was 1 inning of relief where he got shelled. Obviously Carpenter has a little more upside than Castro at this point. But why not just keep him up. The season isn’t likely to be decided by Carpenter having to face Jim Edmonds in a tie game. In fact, I think there is almost zero chance a move like that could have ever happened. And I think its also unlikely that Castro ends up in that situation either.

    This is just poor roster management.

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  59. i don’t get why people are so upset about these type of moves. it kinda reminds me of the jokers who were upset about that kid we gave up for scott eyre (who by the way is pitcing great for the phillies). i can’t even remember the “prospects” name.

    Because its poor roster management.

    I can’t figure out why certain people here object to everything written on this site, yet they continue to come back and contribute to the discussions they seemingly always have a problem with.

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  61. *They could have brought up Eaton or Benson to be an emergency 5-inning arm if they had to.*

    That would be like bring in Dr. Kervorkian to help save the patient.

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  62. Jamie Moyer is a good example of a pitcher that does not make it the first time around. Why limit yourself to one less year on a pitcher? If often takes 2-3 years of bouncing up and down between the minors and the majors for a pitcher to make it. Carpenter will likely need all of next year in AAA anyway after his inconsistent year this year.

    I think the venom goes back to all the roster mismanagement of the Wade years. There were constant errors where middle infielders with little value were protected (Kevin Jordan) and legitimate prospects were lost. While helping the big club is the number one priority, Carpenter was not the only option and probably not the best option. Hell, Swindle pitched 3.1 innings of shutout ball for Lehigh Valley last night as well.

    The Phillies tend to lose all the little transactions. We tend to throw in prospects to deals and not get those prospects back when the deal goes the other way. Giving up arguably more for Blanton than the Cubs gave up for Harden is a sign of that.

    Maybe there is a little too much criticism over a second tier prospect here, but it is a criticism of the Phillies who have a history of bungling this type of transaction.

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  63. you’re so angry james…i don’t understand why you get so worked up with everything that i say. 🙂

    i like taking the counter point to further the discussion. this entire blog posts is nothing but people agreeing with the same point. i like challenging assumptions. it makes things more interesting and always, always deepens the discussion. every time i challenge your point, you come back with more data that we all learn from.

    but i also happen to believe what i say. with regard to carpenter, they might be considering things that you aren’t. but either way, my point is in the long run, it doesn’t matter. if he isn’t a mlb’er by 2011, he qualifies as a filler according to your definition.

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  64. I’m not angry. And you’re not just making counterpoints. NEPP made a few counter points for the sake of the argument. He didn’t say

    i don’t get why people are so upset about these type of moves. it kinda reminds me of the jokers who were upset about that kid we gave up for scott eyre (who by the way is pitcing great for the phillies). i can’t even remember the “prospects” name.

    His remarks were not inflammatory. I’m all for hearing the other side, but I don’t care for the tone.

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  66. i guess i don’t take myself so seriously. this is a sports blog. i don’t get upset about people i don’t know and have never met calling me out for a sports opinion. i take it for what it is worth. good, clean fun.

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  67. This website wasn’t started to turn into a daily tavern, which seems to be the direction its gone over the last few months. Its fine if you don’t take it seriously. But I spend a lot of time (probably way too much time) working on this place, so you’ll have to forgive me if I don’t like the tone of the discussion on my web site.

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  68. The problem with Benson or Eaton is that each would have had to be kept on the roster or outrighted again, whereas you can just shuttle Carpenter up and down.

    And I didn’t realize Castro had been starting recently, but he did pitch Saturday (Walrond Sunday), meaning yesterday he would have been on 3 days rest. Not a disaster, but maybe a problem if you need 5-6 innings.

    So, Wednesday morning you need someone who can pitch 5-6 innings, then Thursday morning, you realize you need another arm because Eyre is likely unavailable, you don’t want Carpenter pitching back-to-back when he was a starter, and the rest of the pen is beat.

    A lot of these are contingency plans, but is it it worth burning an option year on a mid-level prospect for extra insurance? Maybe not, but I think there may be an argument other than ‘they are just stupid.’

    In any case, it certainly worth the discussion.

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  70. andyb,

    while i like cardenas and outman and spencer was ok, it doesn’t equate to what Oakland gave up for Harden, not by a longshot. They gave up a solid up and coming ML arm in Gallagher, a day in day out outfielder in Murton, another solid prospect in Patterson and a young catcher Josh Donaldson. For the phils to give up the equivalent it would have to be Kendrick, Happ or Carrasco, Victorino and a throw in minor league player. That being said we gave up WAY too much for ANOTHER 4th or 5th pitcher.

    Also knowing our luck if we gave up the farm for Harden, he’d be on the DL while he’s lights out for the cubbies. It’ll be sad to see harden vs blanton this weekend. what could’ve been vs what is.

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  72. Losing an option year on Carpenter doesn;t seem to be that big of a deal. He looks like a marginal prospect, at best.
    Carrasco, Marson and Donald would be big deals

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  73. A lot of these are contingency plans, but is it it worth burning an option year on a mid-level prospect for extra insurance? Maybe not, but I think there may be an argument other than ‘they are just stupid.’

    In any case, it certainly worth the discussion.

    I get this reasoning. But my problem is, why not just keep Carpenter up for a few more days until the rosters expand? Castro hasn’t been very good anyway. Carpenter isn’t Nolan Ryan, but he can retire a few big league hitters at this point. Is the L v L matchup worth an option year? I don’t think it is. I don’t think its even close.

    And the Phillies have Hamels going tonight. If he pitches like he has over the last 3 months, the bullpen will only need to go 2, maybe 3 innings tonight barring some fluke game. And if you needed a long man to go 3 or 4 innings in extras, Carpenter could probably have gone 3.

    It just doesn’t make sense to me. While its easy to say “the option shouldn’t matter”, thats not really the point. If Carpenter were a cant miss prospect and it was “just a matter of time” before he entrenched himself on the staff, then sure, it doesn’t matter. But look at the Happ situation. 2009 is his last option year. Can anyone say with reasonable certainty right now that Happ is a lock to make the rotation in 2010? Because after next season, Happ will be out of options.

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  74. phuturephillies just a question about the league spencer is in. Does the west coast minor league teams, Have better hitting parks. I Thought a couple of years ago that I read that the west coast league teams are more hitter friendly.I seem to remember a guy years ago named nickols who hit something like fifty homeruns in a west coast league. The guy was sold to japan team the next year. Later I read that the fences in left were something like two hundred and fifty feet.

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  75. The point about Happ is a very good one. I’d like to think he’ll be in the rotation next year but unless Moyer retires, that will likely not happen barring an injury.

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  76. I do not think I will make a prediction on how long Castro will be on the big team, better to quit while I am ahead

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  77. “I get this reasoning. But my problem is, why not just keep Carpenter up for a few more days until the rosters expand?”

    Because Carpenter had to pitch an inning last night, and they don’t want to have him pitch back-to-back nights since he has always been a starter.

    So, if you still think you need another arm tonight (no Carpenter, no Eyre, everyone else short), then someone has to go down. At that point, Carpenter is the easy call.

    The problem is that last night and tonight they had/have separate needs. Last night they needed insurance for a possible 5-6 inning outing, and tonight they need just a regular bullpen arm to lighten the load. Unfortunately, since Carpenter pitched and would be unused to going back-to-back, those two needs required two players.

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  78. rocky it depends on the park. The Pacific Coast League (AAA) is generally regarded as a great hitter’s league, but its really only half the parks that are hitter friendly, and I think they are all geographically similar. The Cal League (A+, comparable to Clearwater), is a very hitter friendly league because of the dry air and the wind in many of the parks. Lancaster, where the Red Sox affiliate plays, is considered the best hitters park in the minors and the numbers there are generally much higher than the rest of the league

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  79. Mike –

    Maybe the Harden comment was a little aggressive, though I just think that package was 4 prospects/players that had something wrong with them. Patterson looks like a AAAA player to me and the catcher is having a bad year. Murton is useful, but does not have much upside and is probably a marginal full time OF. Gallagher may have the most value of the 4 players in the long run. Then I think we agree on the other end of the deal in that Harden is much better than Blanton (plus Gaudin is a decent middle relief arm).

    On the other questions about sending pitchers up and down, the fact that they are so close to September 1st is what makes this galling. They could have survived by adding Castro or Swindle or Benson for 4 days. They probably were not going to let Carpenter pitch in a setup high value situation anyway.

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  80. I agree with others who think it’s strange to burn an option year on Carpenter this way. Makes me wonder if there’s more to it than just wanting another lefty; perhaps they didn’t like the way Drew reacted in his debut. Who knows.

    I expected them to wait to use one of his option years until after Spring Training next season, but maybe this means he just won’t get an invite? Too bad for Drew — it will be that much harder for him to come up next year since they will be reluctant to burn another option year. He’ll have to dominate in AA to be considered, IMO. Let’s hope he does and makes the Phillies regret this little roster do-si-do.

    Meanwhile, Fabio Castro is enigmatic. He’s going to be under a lot of scrutiny at this point and I’m not sure it’s the best thing for him or the Phillies right now. We’ll see soon enough. I just hope he isn’t the kind of pitcher who never figures it out with our franchise but as soon as we give up on him, he turns the corner, a la Gavin Floyd. Of course Castro doesn’t have anything close to Floyd’s curve ball but he does have a decent fastball.

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  82. I disgree about Castro’s curveball. His curve and fastball are very good pitches, it was his control that caused problems when he was up in the majors.

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  83. Thanks for the correction. For some reason I thought they also removed him from the 40 man.

    I like Castro’s curve, it just isn’t as good as Floyd’s.

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  84. Isn’t it strange how amazing Castro was as a reliever in ’06? Granted he wasn’t used much, but when called upon did an excellent job. It seems like he just disappeared into oblivion and lost his control in the minors.

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  86. On Happ, I think there’s a solid chance he could start in 2009 and a very good chance he makes the team in 2010. I really just don’t think Kyle Kendrick is that good.

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  87. KK’s peripherals haven’t exactly improved this season so his starting position is his to lose right now for 09. Happ and Carrasco may both be pushing him in short order. If Kendrick didn’t have a 21-11 career record Happ would likely already be in the rotation.

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  88. OK I will go out on a limb and predict Castro will be optioned to AAA on Saturday replaced by Matt Stairs who will take Zagurski’s spot on the forty man

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  89. Can they take Carpenter off of the 40-man roster now without putting him for grabs? If so, that would possibly save an option year.

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  91. The Phillies by optioning Carpenter down on August 28, 2008 after adding him to the 40-man roster on August 27, 2008 will NOT use an option for 2008 on him, because baseball rules states that “if a player’s optional assignment to the minors while on the 40-man roster totals less than 20 days in one season, an option is not used for that year”. Phuturephillies was not fully correct in his description on how options work, several days ago.

    I will cite Geoff Geary as an example.
    He was optioned in 5 separate years (2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 & 2007) but option years were only used in 2004, 2005 and 2007. He was optioned a total of 10 times in those 5 years. In 2003 he was optioned for only 2 days and in 2006 he was optioned for only 2 days also. This means that 2003 and 2006 were not option years.

    Geary was added to the 40-man roster on August 27, 2003. He was then optioned on August 30, 2003 and recalled on September 1, 2003. An option year was not used in 2003. From the time he was added to the 40-man roster to the time he was traded he never had to clear waiver to be sent down. The 2003 Geary situation is identical to the 2008 Carpenter situation. There are numerious examples of this.

    The following table shows Geary’s option history:

    Year Contract Purchased Optioned Recalled

    2003 8/27/03 8/30/03 9/1/03

    2004 4/3/04 5/19/04
    5/22/04 5/30/04
    8/13/04 8/16/04

    2005 3/22/05 4/24/05
    8/20/05 9/1/05

    2006 5/11/06 5/13/06

    2007 6/30/07 7/29/07
    8/9/07 8/23/07
    8/30/07 9/4/07

    The 25-man roster that is set on August 31 is very important because that is the listing of the only players eligible for the post season (payoffs) baring injury. Teams generally only carry 11 pitchers on their post season eligible roster so generally on August 30 they option a pitcher down and replace him with a bat. This has also been true for the Phillies.

    Andrew Carpenter will still have 3 options left that can be use in 2009, 2010 and 2011.

    I can fully explain how option and service time procedures work but it would take quite a lengthy post.

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  93. I don’t think anyone said that they used an option year in 2008 on Carpenter. However, it is good to know that a total of less than 20 days in a year does not burn an option year.

    The issue is that they now *have* to use an option year on Carpenter in 2009 when they send him to the minors out of Spring Training. If they hadn’t called him up for 2 days, they wouldn’t have to use an option year next year. Now one could argue that he would have gotten some spot duty with the Phils in 2009 anyway so it doesn’t matter. However, they took away that flexibility of potentially leaving him in the minors all next year and saving his first option year for 2010. And for what? 2 days and an inning of relief. It just seems like they may have had some better options than taking away some future flexibility.

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  94. Oh sorry, I think I read that wrong – so you’re saying that an option year is *only* used if he spends 20 days on the roster? I thought I read somewhere that getting optioned out of ST meant an option year was used. If that’s not the case, then sweet.

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  95. Great post NE PA Philly. Unfortunately it makes a lot of the banter on this thread pretty much useless. I knew the Phillies weren’t completely braindead

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  101. its amazing to me that the FO will worry about an option year on carpenter vs trying to win a division. This is getting me more and more incensed the more i think about it. The short-sightedness is amazing. I’m not saying Carpenter is say for example Samardzjian (sp) but at this point the ML club needs every available arm and he’s gotta be better than Rudy, and possibly even Condrey considering no one’s ever seen his stuff. Amazing the stupidity

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  102. lol. So now we are going to get a complaint because they DIDN”T burn an option year on Carpenter.

    I’m pretty sure people saw Carpenter’s “stuff” in AA ball so not sure about the claim that no one’s ever seen his stuff…

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