As we get close to September 1st, the issue of callups becomes a popular topic, as seen in the Lou Marson article. The rules governing the management of the 25 and 40 man rosters are somewhat confusing. I plan on putting something like this on the wiki site for future reference, but I haven’t had a whole lot of time to devote to that project of late, so I figured I’d just do a writeup here, try and cover all the bases, and I’ll add it over there at a later date. If there is anything related to roster management I don’t cover, post in the comments and I’ll try and add it, and if there are any errors in my post, let me know. I feel like I have a good handle on this, but shocking as it may seem, I’m wrong from time to time.
Difference between non-roster and 40 man roster
When a player is drafted or signed as a non-drafteed free agent, in most cases they sign a minor league deal. From the time you are drafted, you have either 4 years (college player) or 5 years (high school player) before you have to be protected on the 40 man roster. If you aren’t added to the 40 man roster you are eligible for the Rule 5 draft. After 6 years in the minor leagues, if not on the 40 man roster, you become a minor league free agent.
Options
Options seem to be the biggest cause for confusion. When a player is placed on the 40 man roster, he is now eligible to be optioned up and down from the minors. If a player is added to the 25 man roster and then sent back to the minors, this is being “optioned” to the minors. A player has three YEARS where he can be optioned, as options go in years, not number of times you can be sent down. Once you are optioned down to the minors even once in that year, it burns one of your option years. This means that a team can call you up and send you down in that season as many times as they want, within certain limits. You must be in the minors for at least 10 days after being optioned unless you are being recalled to replace a player placed on the DL. If a player is not optioned to the minors at all during a season, an option year isn’t used. For example, Cole Hamels has 3 option years remaining. His contract was purchased in May 2006, and he hasn’t been to the minors since except for a rehab assignment, which doesn’t count as an option. A player with more than 5 years of service time, but with options remaining, must give his consent to the team before being sent to the minors, as was the case with Brett Myers. After a player’s 3 option years have been used, he must clear waivers before being sent down. If a player is claimed, he goes to the claiming team and must be placed on their 25 man roster. If a player is not claimed, he is removed from the 40 man roster and “outrighted” to the minors.
Waivers
There are essentially three situations where a player is waived. The first is “designated for assigment”. In this situation, the player is immediately removed from the 40 man roster. The player can then be traded or released. If the player clears waivers he can be outrighted to the minors once without his consent. After that one time, the player can become a free agent. The second method is more common. A player can be waived, and if hes not claimed, hes said to have “cleared waivers”. Teams can then call a player back and he remains on the roster. If a player is claimed on waivers, a team can attempt to work out a deal with the claiming team. If a deal can’t be reached, the team can either call the player back or allow the claiming team to have the player and his entire contract. If a player is called back he can’t be waived again during the current waiver period. A player who is waived and clears waivers only clears for that waiver period. Once a player has cleared waivers, he can be optioned up and down for that waiver period assuming he has less than 5 years of service time. A prime example of this is Clay Condrey. Last season Condrey had less than 5 years of service time, but was out of options. This is his transaction log for the season
* contract purchased 8/3/07
* contract purchased 7/14/07, sent outright to AAA 7/31/07
* contract purchased 6/23/07, DFA 6/29/07
* contract purchased 5/5/07, sent outright to AAA 6/12/07
* DFA, sent outright to AAA 4/07
* re-signed 2/07
He was designated for assignment and removed from the 40 man roster and after he wasn’t claimed, sent outright to the minors. The Phillies brought him back up in May. He was again DFA’ed and removed, and again unclaimed. After the waiver period ended (trade deadline on the 31st of July) he was sent back down. They brought him back up again on August 3rd. Any team could have put a claim in on Condrey, but chose not to, allowing him to clear waivers and be removed from the roster.
Service Time
Service time is another confusing aspect, but service time is the most important factor as it determines when a player is eligible for arbitration and then free agency. There are 172 days in 1 year of service time for a major league player. For every day spent on the active roster, the player accrues 1 day of service time. After 3 years of service time, a player is eligible for arbitration. After 6 years of service time, a player is eligible for free agency. If you go to Cots Contracts Page, you can see the service time for all players prior to the 2008 season. JA Happ, for instance, had 0.001 service time, the 001 is 1 day. Francisco Rosario had 1.089, or 1 year and 89 days. Some players with less than 3 years of service time qualify as a Super 2. Per Cots
The top 17 percent of players with at least 2 but less than 3 years of Major League service. (See Super 2). To qualify as a Super 2, a player must have accumulated at least 86 days of service in the previous year. (A year of service is 172 days. The historical cutoff point for Super 2 status is 2 years, 128 days of service, though the requirement has been as high as 2 years, 140 days.)
So looking at this, Cole Hamels will be a Super 2 after this season. Entering 2008 he was a 1.143 years of service, the .143 being 143 days. After this season, he’ll be at 2.143 and should qualify for arbitration. I’m not sure if the accuracy of all of Cots info, as they list Jason Jaramillo with service time, and unless I’m missing something, that is incorrect, as he has never spent time on the active roster. His contract is listed as “Purchased 11/19/97”, but that was simply adding him to the 40 man roster to protect him in the Rule 5 draft. As far as I can tell, his service time should still be 0.000. Brad Harman was also protected on the 40 man and his service time was listed at 0.000. He will have actual service time after this season due to his brief time spent on the roster when Rollins was hurt. One final rule indicates that if you spend less than 20 days of the season on optional assignment, you are granted a full season of service. That comes from The Biz of Baseball website.
So what does it all mean?
Well, its simple. The following players are currently on the 40 man roster but not on the 25 man roster
Jason Jaramillo, C: Was optioned to minor league camp on March 17th. 2008 is his first option year, will have 2 option years remaining. I sent an email to Cots to try and verify his service time, but it should be 0.000
Brad Harman, 2B: Was optioned to the minors on May 9th. 2008 is his first option year, will have 2 more options remaining. Harman was called up on April 20th and send down on May 9th, so that should give him 20 days of service time.
Mike Cervanek, INF: Was signed as a minor league free agent, had no service time prior to 2008. Had his contract purchased 7/10 for first time and was sent down on 7/21. He was recalled on 7/29 and then sent down on 8/16. So he’ll have 2 option years left starting in 2009. He should now have 30 days of service time.
Oscar Robles, INF: Was optioned in 2006 by LA. Was optioned in 2007 by SDP. Optioned on 3/25/08 to the minors by San Diego. He was waived in April 2008 and claimed by the Phillies on 4/29 and then sent to AAA. Robles was sold to Mexico City in 2005. His contract was purchased in May of 2005 and he spent the entire 2005 season from that point on the 25 man roster, so I don’t think he burned an option that year. I don’t know. But it really doesn’t matter. He was optioned in 2006, 2007 and 2008, so he’ll be out of options next year, but have less than 2 full years of service.
TJ Bohn, OF: Added to the 40 man 11/2005. Optioned to minors on 3/17/06. Optioned in 2007, and again optioned in 2008. So he will be out of options after this season. Had 30 days of service time prior to 2008.
Joe Bisenius, P: Contract was purchased 4/2007. Optioned in 2007 and optioned in 2008, so he’ll have 1 year remaining next year. Had 7 days of service time pre 2008, spent a week on the 25 man in July.
Fabio Castro, P: Optioned 3/07 and 3/08. Has one more option year remaining in 2009. Prior to 2008 he had 1.056 years of service time, so he’ll obviously be under 2 years heading into 2009.
JA Happ, P: Optioned after his spot start on 6/30/07. Optioned in 2008. So he has 1 option remaining in 2009, has less than 1 year of service.
Scott Mathieson, P: Was protected from Rule 5 draft 11/2005. Optioned March 2006. Was called up on 6/16/06 and accrued 71 days of service time before being injured on 9/2/06 and placed on the DL on 9/3/06. The Phillies placed him on the DL 4/1/07 for the entire 2007 season, and he accumulated a year of service time while on the DL, but he was never optioned out. Optioned down on 3/9/08. Now, since he was optioned to the minors before he went on the DL this time, I believe he won’t accrue service time, but an option year has been burned. If I’m wrong about this, then he will have 2.071 years of service time, but I think it will actually only be 1.071.
Francisco Rosario, P: Out of options, currently on DL.
RJ Swindle, P: Optioned in 2008, has two option years remaining
Mike Zagurski, P: Optioned in 2007, I can’t find it on the Phillies site as to whether he was optioned or placed on the DL for 2008. If he was optioned then he’ll have one more option year next year. If he was DL’ed then he hasn’t burned an option yet.
Others on the 40 man include Adam Eaton, Tom Gordon, and Geoff Jenkins. Add the 25 guys currently active, plus those 3, plus the 12 guys mentioned above and you have 40. Gordon, who is done for the year, can be moved to the 60 day DL, as can Mathieson and Rosario. I have no idea if Zagurski is even alive anymore, haven’t heard about him in ages. So we have open spots.
Now, to bring this full circle on Donald and Marson. If they are added to the 40 man roster, here’s what happens. They will both accrue service time for their days spent on the active roster. If they are added to the active roster and then removed and optioned, they will burn an option year. But there is no real reason to remove them from the active roster with the expansion, so they won’t burn an actual option. But because they would now be on the 40 man roster, they would have to be optioned out next spring if they don’t make the 25 man roster. This is Marson’s 5th professional season, so he will need to be protected on the 40 man roster this winter, and thus, he’ll have to be optioned either way in March 2009. So the only reason to not bring him up is in terms of his service time clock. Donald was drafted in 2006, he doesn’t have to be added to the 40 man until next winter, Novemeber 2009. So not only is his service time an issue, but you’d be losing one option year, as he would have to be optioned in March 2009 as well instead of March 2010.
I hope that makes sense.
Phuture Phillies 
So that said…they should still call up Donald.
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Well, only if they feel like he’s going to
a.) stick as a reserve infielder next year
or
b.) be a full time player that won’t need more minor league time in 3 seasons.
Because of the options system, Marson is the more sensible choice since he has to be added to the 40 man this winter anyway.
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I think the Phils will definitely call up Jaramillo, so I’m not sure they’ll make the call for Marson….although, as was pointed out, there’s absolutely nothing to lose from calling him up in September. In fact, it would probably be beneficial just to have him in Philly so he can experience the playoff race.
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I think he’d stick as a reserve and I just don’t see them calling up Marson yet as they’ve basically hinted that Jaramillo is first in line for a Sept callup.
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Bully! The Mets called up an infielder recently named Daniel Murphy who has very similar numbers to Jason Donald. Everything is just about similar. Age. Level. Average. Power. Ect. Maybe Mets management feels it more urgent to advance deeper in October.
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Hey I certainly would be in favor of calling him up. I was just outlining why it might not happen.
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If a player goes to the Arizona fall league, does that disrupt anything to do with options or is that just a matter of age and service time?
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PP, do you know who the Phils need to add to the 40 man roster this winter?
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It would be all high school kids taken in 2004 and college kids taken in 2005
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I don’t see Donald’s option years as an issue. Even if he’s called up this season, he’ll have options for 09, 10, and 11. If he can’t stick with the big club by 2012, he’s not all that valuable a player anyway.
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I see Donald, Carrasco and Marson as major leaguers by 2010 at the very latest. If that were be the case, would calling them up Sept 1st even matter?
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List of guys, taking a quick look
Golson
Marson
Slayden
Gosewich
Harris
Harker
Ronald Hill
Overholt
Some interesting decisions there
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This might not be the correct thread to ask this question (so feel free to delete it if necessary) but if we don’t add guys like Harris and Overholt to the 40 man and no one takes them in the Major League portion of the Rule 5 draft, can we still lose them in the minor league phase or are they safe? I can’t imagine we’d protect these guys on the major league roster (and I can’t see another team keeping them on their 25 man roster all season) but I’d hate to lose them for nothing in the minor league phase of the Rule 5 draft.
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Also foreign signings made in 2004 as well are Rule 5 eligible if they made their DSL/VSL debuts in 2004. They would be even younger than the HS guys.
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I think you are wrong on options. A guy does not need to be added to 25-man roster and sent down to constitute an option. Any player who is on the 40-man roster, but not the 25-man roster, has been optioned. So, if Golson is added to 40-man over winter, never added to 25-man roster, and spends 100% of 2009 in the minors, he has been optioned once, despite never being on 25-man roster.
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This is ….. awesome. Thanks for the comprehensive overview, James.
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PP, here is the transactions for Zagurski..
March 22, 2008 Placed pitchers Scott Mathieson, Francisco Rosario and Mike Zagurski on the 15-day disabled list.
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philly jamaal – They would need to be on the AAA roster to be kept in the Phillies system, and that’s where they likely will be placed. Bully!
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Philly Jamaal—The short answer to your question on the minor league phase of the Rule 5 is yes, players not protected on the 40 man can be selected during the Minor League phase. However, one important caveat is that they can only be taken if the selecting team selects them in a phase of the draft that is a higher classification level than the roster they are currently on at the time of the Rule 5 Draft.
For example, Overholt is currently on the AA roster. If the Phillies leave him on that roster for the Rule 5, he could be selected in the AAA phase of the Rule 5 Draft. If however, they place him on the AAA roster prior to the Rule 5, he can only be selected in the Major League portion of the Rule 5 Draft. You can extraploate that process downward for the lower levels.
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Allentown,
I don’t think you are reading the section on options quite right.
From my understanding, Once a player has been added to the 40-man roster, he must be optioned to the minors, even if they don’t spend any time on the 25-man roster.
A player like Hamels has 3 options left because was never optioned to the minors after being added to the 40-man roster. Meanwhile, Jason Jaramillo lost 1 option year this season because he was optioned to the minor league camp in spring training.
If you look at this transaction from March 9th, it might make more sense:
March 9th. Optioned pitchers Joe Bisenius, Scott Mathieson, J.A. Happ and infielder Brad Harman to minor league camp; assigned pitchers Ron Chiavacci, Zack Segovia, Brian Mazone, Joe Savery, catchers Tuffy Gosewisch, Lou Mason, infielders Jason Donald, Mike Cervanek, Andy Tracy and outfielder Valentino Pascucci to minor league camp.
In this situation, Bisenius, Mathieson, Happ, and Harman were option to minor league camp because they were on the 40-man roster. The rest of the players could just be assigned outright.
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3up3kkk that is correct, based on my multiple readings of the rules. Those players get optioned down in spring training, but that option still counts.
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3UP — That’s exactly what I said, which is different from what phuturephillies said: “If a player is added to the 25 man roster and then sent back to the minors, this is being “optioned” to the minors”.. My point is he doesn’t ever need to be on 25 man roster to be optioned. If he is on 40-man, but not 25-man he has been optioned.
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Allentown, I agree with you.
Think we are just reading PP’s write-up a little differently. I saw his 25-man roster example as just that, an example.
The sentence before that that states “When a player is placed on the 40 man roster, he is now eligible to be optioned up and down from the minors” is the operative one. Irregardless, we all appear to be on the same page!
As for the call-ups, I don’t expect that Donald or Marson will get the September call for different reasons. Donald because they don’t want to add him to the 40-man roster and burn the option year so he can sit on the bench and Marson because they will call-up Jaramillo instead.
I expect you will see the following players get called:
Golson – As a pinch-runner and because he has to be added to the 40-man next year anyway
Bohn – Already on the 40-man and gives some defense
Jaramillo – see above
Happ – extra long-man
Walrond – another LH
Cervenak – Just because they can!!!
Harman – extra IF defense – pinch runner
Robles – extra lefty bat although Tracy might stay instead.
Eaton – Don’t ask me why but I suspect they will anyway…
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Thanks for this explanation, James. It’s a confusing topic, but this certainly helps shed some light on it. One more question: are community college players treated the same as 4-year college players with regard to service time, Rule 5 issues, etc.?
Another question (sort of an add-on to philly jamaal’s question): is it correct to say that a player like Bear Hill can be placed on the AAA roster to protect him for the minor league Rule 5, but can then be optioned back down to Reading once spring training rolls around? Or would Hill need to stay on the AAA roster for the entire year?
Finally, a bit off topic… 93phils mentioned this in the Questions/Topics thread, but Zolecki’s notes today mentioned the 8 players the Phils will be sending to the Arizona Fall League.
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Forgot to add Snelling as a probable Sept 1st addition as well…
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Im not really sure how to clear up the wording of that confusing part about options, if it is confusing. Once you are placed on the 40 man roster your years where you have to be optioned start, but you don’t have to officially be optioned until roster cuts are in place. For example, the Phillies could add Golson to the 40 man roster right now, but they don’t have to do it until they want to add him to the active roster, or until they need to protect him from the Rule 5 draft. If they want to add him to the active roster now, it would be the 25 man, as rosters don’t expand until September 1. If they wait till September 1, he can be added to the active roster, which is a 40 player max, and he won’t have to be optioned down. Next spring, if not kept on the 25 man roster, he has to be optioned down.
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CC players are treated according to their age.
Technically the rules don’t delineate between HS and college, but rather age.
If a player signs his first contract before the age of 19, then the team does not have to add him to the 40 man roster for 5 winters before exposing him to the Rule 5 draft. If a player is 19 or older, then the team has 4 winters before exposing him to the Rule 5 draft.
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Thanks for all the clarification.
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As of right now the 40 man roster stands at 40, so someone people being suggested as call ups would have to take the places of others on the 40 man roster. Who are the most likely to get dropped off the 40 man? Swindle, Bohn, Cervenak?
Also, do people on the DL count towards the 40-man roster? If no, then actually there are 35 people on the 40 man roster and 5 on the DL. So 5 people can get called up.
We could always let go of Taguchi, keeping fingers crossed.
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Great thread. Option years, the minor league rule 5 draft, and ‘operative’ sentences!
Much appreciated. I agree with most of the above that losing an option year on Donald in 2009 (when he would almost assuredly come up at some point anyway) is no big deal.
To factor in options on him, you would have to believe the Phillies need Donald’s option years in 2010, 2011, and 2012, which just seems unlikely, and even if it is likely, it means he hasn’t been all that great anyway.
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15 day DL count
60 day DL do not
which is why Gordon and others can be shifted from the 15 to the 60. Its all retroactive anyway. If youre on the 60 day DL it just means you must spend 60 days on the DL from the time you originally went on the DL. Mathieson and Zagurksi have both been out more than 60 days already. So its all procedural at this point.
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ok thanks, so with the exception of Jenkins, will we bring up 4 guys or more in September?
And if more than who gets bumped?
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Players on the 15-day DL do still count towards the 40-man roster. Players on the 60-day DL do not, and players can only be placed on the 60-day if the team needs to create a 40-man roster spot. Thus even though Mathieson and Zagurski have been known to be out for the year for a while now they’re not yet on the 60-day DL since they haven’t needed the roster spot.
One other key name for those who will have to go on the 40-man over the winter: Carlos Carrasco. I actually thought he had to go on last year so was surprised when he didn’t.
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Carrasco debuted in 2004, so yes, he has to go in this winter. I was only looking at drafted guys.
Edgar Garcia debuted in 2005, so I believe he has an extra year.
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Sec 113,
It’s highly unlikely the Phils would bring up more than four players who are not already on the 40 man, for the reasons laid out by Phuture: they would all have to then either make the 25 man in 09 or be optioned back at some point.
There’s about zero chance that any healthy players will be moved off the 40 man for a call up.
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Phuture Phils, great post. Putting all of this in one place is a really great resource.
Thanks for the good work, with this post, and the blog in general.
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padraic-
Yeah I was thinking that too, sometimes I feel I type my reply/question out and realise the answer to it as I am typing but can’t go back and delete my message. Oh well.
Thanks.
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there was talk last night (or i guess this morning) at the end of the 13th inning when all pitchers were used and Kendrick was warming up for the 14th if necessary that possibly someone would need to be called up to pitch tonight’s ML game vs the Mets. Wonder if the phils would consider CC. I doubt it, but just speculating. also where are we at in the rotation at LHV?
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Benson pitches today..
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Any chance Carrasco gets called up and is a Joba like relief pitcher for the Phils? He has to be put on the 40 after the year anyway, and the 30 extra days of service shouldnt push him to becoming a super 2 down the road.
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Carrasco has to be added to the 40 man, so it wouldn’t hurt except for the 30 days of service time.
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Except when exactly is Carrasco going to be used in relief? The Phillies pen has been very good this year and Carrasco isn’t going to be used after the 5th inning of a close ballgame ahead of Romero, Durbin, Madson, Lidge, or even Seanez and Condrey at this point..
Just don’t see any benefit of making that move.
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Sorry stupid question but is Carrasco pitching this winter anywhere or in the AFL?
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Never mind on the AFL but will he pitch at all this winter? It might make sense to just rest his arm as he’s pretty young, has had a great season in AA/AAA and could be important in the 2nd half next year for the big club. Why add anymore innings to his young arm if we don’t have too? He’s not really ready for the majors yet and there are guys like Happ/Benson that could sit on the bench just as easily. Why risk overstressing our best pitching prospect?
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Seeing that he is from Venezuela I suspect he will pitch in their winter league. There seems to be pressure on players to play in their home countries over the winter.
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