The Phils road trip ended with the Phils mired at .500 (52-52), in 5th place and 8 games out of first in the SOuthern division. Still among the league leaders are Matt Maloney who is 8th in wins(9), 1st in innings (118.2), and 4th in strikeouts (108). Chris Key is climbing up the leader board now with 13 saves ranking 7th. In the hitting categories, Greg Jacobs is 2nd in hits (110), 5th in doubles (27), 3rd in homers (16), 2nd in RBI’s (65) and 6th in average (.316). Mike Costanzo is 3rd in runs (67), 2nd in homers (18), 10th in RBI’s (55), and 2nd in strikeouts (123). Jason Hill continues to lead the league in doubles with 30. Jesus Merchan leads the league in batting average at .333 and Javon Moran is 3rd in steals with 24.
The Phils continued their road trip, moving on to Akron on Thursday, with rain forcing the games suspension after the second inning with it being picked up Friday as part of a doubleheader. In Game One, Akron scored two times in the 6th, to take a lead that they didnt relinquish. Peeter Ramos hit his 7th homer in the ninth inning to make it close. Both Joey Hammond and Mike SPidale had 2 hits for Reading. Charles Weatherby took the loss after picking up for Chris Rojas who had pitched 2 scoreless innings to start the game Thursday. The Phils took Game Two Friday night 2-1, with Pat Overholt (3-4), pitching a strong game giving up only 1 run in 6 innings. He struck out 5. Chris Key picked up his 13th save of the year. The Phils were led offensively by Jacob Hammond who was 2-3 with a run scored and Jesus Merchan who had a pinch hit RBI single to win the game for the Phils. Matt Maloney (8-7) pitched an outstanding game Saturday night going 8.2 innings and allowing only 1 run on 4 hits, while striking out 10, in a 6-1 Phils victory over Akron. Jesus Merchan who who had 3 rbi’s and Mike Spidale who went 3-4 with a run and 2 RBI’s led the charge offensively for the Phils. The Phils lost the final game of the four game set against Akron 4-3, splitting the four game series. The Phils lost this game in the bottom of the ninth, when, with the bases loaded, they were unable to turn an inning ending double play, and the winning run scored. Jason Anderson(2-1) took the loss. Chris Rojas started and gave up 2 runs over 5 innings. Javon Moran, Joey Hammond, Mike Spidale, Matt Padgett and Greg Jacobs all had 2 hits for the Phils who stranded 14 baserunners.
The Phils long roadtrip continues and the concern for Carlos Carrasco is growing after the Phils 11-3 loss to Bowie Monday night. Carrasco (3-1) lasted only 4 innings and gave up 8 runs on 6 hits while walking 3 batters in an effort that certainly raises some red flags. Mike COstanzo hot his 18th homer, and Javon Moran, Mike SPidale, Greg Jacobs and Jason Hill all had 2 hits for Reading. Getting increasingly weary as shown through their play, the Phils lost 11-4 to Bowie Monday night in a game that included 3 errors committed. Zach Segovia (3-2) started and took the loss going 5 innings and giving up 4 runs. Charles Weatherby pitched the 8th and gave up 6 runs in the innings on only 3 hits. Matt Padgett had 2 hits including his 7th homer of the year to go along with 3 RBI’s. Jason Hill and Joey Hammond also contributed 2 hits, while Jesus Merchan hit a solo homer (5), accounting for the Phils other run. The Phils have been chanting, “there is no place like home”, as they got crushed yet again by Bowie 8-2. Pat Overholt (3-5) started and got crushed going 4.2 innings and giving up 7 runs. The offesnive highlights for Reading consisted of 2 hits by Mike Costanzo and 2 hits including a homer (6) by Jason Hill.
Philling: Orioles All Star shortstop Miguel Tejada played for Bowie Wednesday against Reading in a rehab assignment. Tejada was 0-3.
Phuture Phillies 
Greg Golson has been promoted to Reading
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I like Greg Golson. He seems like a tough competitor.
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Yeah I just read that Josh Outman got promoted too and is going to start on Saturday.
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Did he really have back to back 4 hit games earlier in the week? He might make me rethink my “I’d rather have Berry” stance. Looking at his numbers, he is having a pretty good year. Hopefully he responds to the promotion the same way he did last year.
Hell, if his growth continues, he could be Burrell’s replacement in 2009.
– Jeff, thinking that a “who would you rather have in 2009, Burrell or Golson?” thread might be interesting
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“Who would you rather have in 2009, Burrell or Golson?”
Do you even think that would be a question though? I’d rather put a trained monkey with a glove in LF than keep Pat Burrell, at least he’d cover more ground.
Although, I’m thinking a more likely move would be to RF, because Victorino’s a natural CF, so you’d have Bourn in LF, Victorino in CF, and Golson in RF.
I’m not entirely sure I like that all too much though, there’s a bit too much speed and not enough power (even if Golson develops into a 20-30 HR hitter).
I want to keep Rowand, but I don’t think we will. My money would be on him walking after this year.
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Yeah, given that Burrell is basically a one-tool player, and that tool ain’t even that good, I’m sure a Golson vs. Burrell debate is a no-brainer. (And that’s before you even consider the financial ramifications.
A Bourn/Victorino/Golson outfield will be okay by me in 2009, and I’m not too concerned about the potential lack of power in the outfield (although GG and SV should be good for about 15-20 HRs each). This team would have sick speed – 4 legitimate base stealing threats, and a starting infield that could have hit about 125 homers. (I’m optimistically pencilling in Costanzo for the starting 3B job, and thinking he’ll be good for about 20-25 dingers. What can I say, last night’s win has me in a good mood 8^)
– Jeff
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Bourn/Victorino/Golson? guh. that’s a great outfield for 1909. 2009, not so much.
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That OF doesn’t excite me much. One thing to have Victorino and Bourne or Golson, but all 3 to perform as solid OFers is wishful thinking.
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A no brainer in favor of Burrell, right? Unless you were talking about the NFL combine, where Golson can run, jump, catch.
Golson has 124 strikeouts at Single-A. His career OBP is .309. Although I agree with moving him along instead of seeing some of the veteran waste take up roster space at Double-A, there is an excellent chance this kid will struggle to make the jump. There’s really nothing he’s shown that points toward a major league career, although I’ll be happy to be proven wrong.
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Don’t look now, but Burrell’s OPS is up to .833 and climbing fast.
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“Don’t look now, but Burrell’s OPS is up to .833 and climbing fast.”
Still doesn’t help the fact that his BA is just .241
Right now, Burrell is hot, but we all know what’s going to happen sooner than later. We need to jump ship with this guy ASAP. Maybe he could be traded in the off-season if he finishes the year hot.
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Plus spending the money in Burrell’s contract for a player of his caliber is criminal. He’s stealing money and just coasting by. Golson or whoever takes his spot won’t cost as much and will be less of a defensive liability.
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“Still doesn’t help the fact that his BA is just .241”
I’ll take a .240 AVG and .400 OBP over a .290 AVG and .320 OBP any day of the week.
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BA is a BS stat. To the extent that it has any meaning at all, it’s already included in OBP and SLG, and so by definition it can’t counterbalance those stats.
Also, your last comment makes no sense. Burrell’s contract is guaranteed through 2008. He’s going to make that money whether you play him or whether you don’t. You won’t save any money if you play Golson or anybody else instead. As for 2009, Burrell’s current contract will then be up. You can either sign him for a more accurate price or you can decide not to, but money won’t be the factor it is today.
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If Burrell was making $7 Million instead of 14, nobody would be making such a big deal out of his numbers. Personally, I like what he’s doing at the plate. He’s no longer trying to hit a HR on every pitch and he’s swinging at strikes and not chasing bad pitches. I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up with well over 100 walks, a .265 average, 25 homers and around 80 RBIs. I may be Greg Golson’s biggest fan, but at this point, I’d much rather see Burrell as an everyday player in 2009 and 2010 than GG.
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Also, I just love this logic: “Right now, Burrell is hot, but we all know what’s going to happen sooner than later. We need to jump ship with this guy ASAP. Maybe he could be traded in the off-season if he finishes the year hot.”
So what you’re saying is: if Burrell plays poorly, then we have to get rid of him because he stinks. If Burrell plays well, then we have to get rid of him because his value will be high. Why do I get the feeling that you just want to get rid of him no matter what just because you dislike him, and that his actual performance has nothing to do with it?
As for whether or not we “all know what’s going to happen sooner or later,” absolutely, I think all knowledgeable observers know that Burrell is likely to improve even more on his current numbers. Burrell’s career stats are .257/.365/.476 (.841 OPS) and his current stats for this year are .241/.404/.429 (.833 OPS). If we expect no better than a reversion to the mean, then his power numbers should go up considerably. His on-base numbers may go down, but since his high OBP this year is driven primarily by high walk totals, and since taking walks is the aspect of the game that a hitter has the most control over, they’re less likely to go down than his power numbers are likely to go up.
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His actual performance has nothing to do with it?
Are you kidding me?
Look at him over the past years – he is EXTREMELY streaky, he strikes out at an ungodly rate, he can’t catch a ball, and he lacks legs.
And I just dislike the guy.
I think you’re in love with the guy with the way you’re talking.
He’s just not what you need. He’s not plus in anything anymore, he’s below-average in just about everything.
Please come armed with a REAL argument the next time you make an attack on me.
You clearly ignore his horrible defense for his mediocre offense. Look at the guy as an overall player, not your fantasy version of him.
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You want to attack my opinion? Let’s see whose opinion is faultier, mine, that he’s a bad player, or your’s, that he’s a good one, using your favorite thing – stats.
Yes, those are his career stats, but how ’bout these stats?
With men in scoring position, your golden boy? Well, quite frankly, he blows.
Men in Scoring Position
.222/.376/.346
And guess what? He’s even worse w/ men in scoring position and 2 outs
MISP w/ 2 outs
.167/.363/.265
Can you comprehend this – Your boy is horrible in the clutch, and he’s EXTREMELY streaky. I don’t know the unhealthy affair you have that you profess your admiration for the man, but it’s unwarranted.
If he played defense, he could offset his clutch-hitting shortcomings, instead, his knees are shot, he cannot run, and he doesn’t have a plus arm anymore.
All-in-all, Pat “the bat” is an under-average player, who gets his statistics while he’s on hot streaks and disappears when it starts to mean something in the clutch.
I have nothing against the guy personally, I wish he had turned into the player he should have been. He never did. Realize it, and live with it.
Think before you talk.
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oh, and those ARE career stats, in case you were wondering, he IS under .200 with RISP and 2 outs for his entire career. Defend that.
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DJ: your stats are just plain wrong. go to baseball-reference and see for yourself-
Burrell RISP: .278/.446/.444
Burrell RISP/2 outs: .257/.447/.314
and aside from that, RISP stats are utterly meaningless. in 2005, Burrell went .313/.429/.598 with RISP. the fact that he was brilliant in those situations in ’05, terrible in ’06, and average in ’07 means nothing more than that RISP stats are essentially random noise.
I guarantee that nobody on any Phillies board on the face of the earth thinks Burrell is a “golden boy.” that’s asinine. everybody realizes that his contract was a mistake. everybody realizes he’s never going to be the MVP candidate he was supposed to be. but what he is – a hitter with some power who makes fewer outs than just about everybody in baseball – is undeniably valuable. the defensive improvement (in LF, no less, one of the least important positions for good defense) you would get by replacing him with a guy like Golson is worth nowhere near the ~100 points of OBP you give up.
(just for fun,
Victorino RISP: .247/.324/.366
Victorino RISP/2 outs: .231/.302/.410
should we bench him for extreme unclutchiness?)
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ah, so we changed the goalposts, did we? always a good way to win an argument when the facts aren’t on your side.
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unbelievable. you’re still not right. you actually quoted his stats from 2006 to make them look like 2007 stats, and then claimed that they were career numbers. actually:
Burrell, RISP, career: .268/.390/.465
Burrell, RISP/2 outs, career: .252/.394/.470
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Are you one of those guys who thinks Andy Reid should be fired because he can’t win a Super Bowl? Give Burrell a break, his hot streak is a result of not trying to do too much. When people expect him to hit a HR every single AB, he tries too hard and ends up pulling off the ball and chasing sliders in the dirt. It’s not like he’s a horrible LF either, he has a good arm and plays a fundamentally sound LF.
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Alright, I admit when I’m wrong, and I did misread the stats on that page. But still, those stats have been deteriorating the last few years. Sorry for misreading.
And no, if you’ve been following me, we should not bench Victorino. Not only does he hit for average, he is a very good defensive RF.
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No, Andy Reid is a good coach, one of the best in the NFL.
And, no, Burrell’s not a good LF; while he can catch, he has an extremely limited range due to his knees.
He’s had two good years and all you people act like he’s a perennial all-star. At best, he’s a slightly above-average all-around LF, combining his batting with his defense. No, he’s not the worst LF in the league, and I never said that, he’s just not a good part of this team.
And wow, this offseason everyone, including many newspaper journalists called for the Phils to trade him b/c of his lack of performance. Now you try to say that he’s actually good. Put it this way – there’s a reason we can’t even give him away to another team.
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I’ll bet you are all the people who loved Bobby Abreu and his underachieving act. Guess what happened when we got rid of him, we got better!
He even had tons of great stats. Just proving pure stats alone mean absolutely nothing. People who underachieve and don’t put out a great effort are usually more detrimental than helpful to a team.
Oh, and if he’s as good as you all say, did you realize he was voted one of the five players who get the least production out of the most talent by MLB players? Guess the professionals see something in him you don’t.
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Kids, stop fighting or I’m sending you to your rooms!
Since I sorta start the Burrell debate by saying I would rather have Golson (in 2009) than Burrell, I feel I should point out two things: (1) I was going on the assumption that Golson continues to mature, and puts up numbers in the Bigs similar to the season he is having now. Yeah, I wish he would take more walks, and strikeout less, but… (2) Burrell’s high OBP in my opinion might actually be a bit of a detriment. For one, he is a slug on the bases. Also, he goes up there looking for a walk when he should be trying to get a hit. How many called third strikes does he take? Once he gets ahead in the count, he wants to take rather than looking for a fastball.
And I should point out that as I was typing Burrell just hit a bases loaded single to put the Phils up 5-2, so maybe I should shut up. Go Pat!
– jeff
p.s. I’m not really that big of a Golson fan either, but if the guy turns into a speedier Jeff Francoeur (albeit not quite the throwing arm), then I’m okay with that.
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“And, no, Burrell’s not a good LF; while he can catch, he has an extremely limited range due to his knees”
Burrell has been having problems with his feet, I’ve never heard anything about him having knee problems.
What is more valuable for an outfielder, speed or a strong throwing arm? Rondell White was one of the worst throwing left fielders I’ve ever seen, but he was faster than Pat, who would you rather have in the field? Personally, I think I’d take the guy with the strong arm.
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“(2) Burrell’s high OBP in my opinion might actually be a bit of a detriment.”
No. This is 100% wrong.
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The “we got better after dumping Abreu” gag always reminds me of this bit of timeless wisdom:
Lisa: Dad, what if I were to tell you that this rock keeps away tigers.
Homer: Uh-huh, and how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn’t work. It’s just a stupid rock.
Homer: I see.
Lisa: But you don’t see any tigers around, do you?
Homer: Lisa, I’d like to buy your rock.
In other words, Abreu’s lack of clutchity grititude is the reason the Phillies didn’t make the playoffs during his time with the team–not the generally awful rosters of 1998-2000, the season-wrecking “bullpen improvements” of 2001 and 2003, the injured-pitcher epidemic of 2004, etc.
Just like, when they don’t make it this year, it’ll be the fault of Burrell rather than atrociously bad decisions like the one just now to allow Zagurski to pitch to Jesus H. Flores, resulting in a three-run homer.
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Man, at least the Phils have softened up the Nats bullpen for the Mets. I wonder if Ray King is available
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[quoty]
# taco pal Says:
July 26th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
“(2) Burrell’s high OBP in my opinion might actually be a bit of a detriment.”
No. This is 100% wrong.
[\quote]
My rationale isn’t to say that high OBP is bad, but that I would rather Burrell be more aggressive as a hitter. Although since Burrell has now inherited “Official Whipping Boy” status of the fans, he could probably win the triple crown and fans would still find something to complain about.
– Jeff
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dajafi –
Does it befit your opinion to take what I said entirely out of context?
Never once did I say that Abreu was the reason that the Phillies have failed to make the playoffs since 1993. What I did say, however (and this can be backed up by their record last year) was that once we got rid of Abreu we started playing much better as a team. A team that was out of it got back in the hunt. Pat Gillick claimed the team would not be good until 2008, and yet they began to climb and gave us hope for this season.
Whether it was getting rid of a lazy ethic or not that allowed them to improved, I never once claimed that Abreu’s work ethic cost the Phillies the playoffs in any year.
Don’t extrapolate on a person’s comment to befit your statement.
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And, for the record, I never said that Burrell would the reason they did not make the playoffs if they don’t this year.
Of course he wouldn’t be, there are more pertinent needs for the Phillies. But certainly, he doesn’t really help them all too much.
No one can answer this question (and no, the answer is not anything to do with the fans) – If Burrell is as good as you all say, then why is Gillick looking to get rid of/replace him as soon as he can?
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Can anyone here play second for the phils ??
Utley to the DL
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If Burrell is as good as you all say, then why is Gillick looking to get rid of/replace him as soon as he can?
Given his track record since taking over, do you really want to hang your argument here on Pat Gillick?
This is an annoying argument that I’m not interested in pursuing too much further, but just try and think about this for a minute.
There are two ways to evaluate a player: the numbers, which are more or less objective (though how one uses them isn’t), and perceptions, which are totally subjective (which doesn’t mean they aren’t valid–just that they’re tougher to prove). You started by attacking Burrell on both grounds, citing some stats (after coming on like a boorish jackass attacking the sort of weenie fans who care about such things) Then you were shown that you misread the stats. So you backed off and went back to the perception stuff, throwing in a non-sequiteur about “underachieving” Abreu.
Throughout, you keep using phrases like “if he’s as good as you all say”–which is a distortion of the defenders of Burrell here. (Though I did enjoy when you then took on the wounded aspect of my “distorting” your irrelevant and silly Abreu “point.”)
Go read the comment from ae again. Nobody is holding up Burrell as a great player, an MVP, anything like that. He’s probably the sixth best hitter among the eight regulars, seventh if you like Dobbs better than I do. (I think the guy has some of the worst at-bats I’ve ever seen… but that’s my perception. His stats are pretty decent.) But he’s not “killing” the team, and he really wasn’t even before getting hot a little bit before the break.
Another subjective perception for you–from last night in the 4th inning, Phils losing 1-0, bases loaded. Rowand had a terrible at-bat with no outs, popping up. Burrell comes up and falls behind 1-2, and the Nationals kid pitcher is one strike away from seeing his way out of this. Burrell lays off three close ones to walk and force in a run; Helms follows with a two-run hit, and Cole Hamels is on the way to the win before the bullpen serves up its specialty dish of steaming fecal soup.
I’ve seen Burrell have that at-bat maybe eight times this year. It’s not flashy in the boxscore, and maybe it furthers the impression that “he’d rather walk than hit.” But this is the Phillies offense. The homers are great and Howard is justifiably the superstar, and he’ll be paid like one. The whole thing doesn’t work nearly as well, though, unless you constantly keep pressure on the opposing pitcher to make the good pitch–to you, to the next guy, to Howard two innings later when he’s that much more tired for having had to throw 85 pitches thru 5 IP rather than 65.
That’s Burrell’s value. It’s not worth $13 million or however much he makes this year, it doesn’t excuse his lousy defense, and it probably doesn’t justify the .245 average. But it’s still helpful, and it’s not something any of his likely replacements would come close to giving.
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