173 thoughts on “Singleton to LF

  1. hooray.

    for arguments sake, let’s say he adjusts well to very well at LF next year. he’s only 19. does anyone really see him in philly before 2013 at the very earliest? probably more like 2014-15. and even if he is only ever a average to slightly below average LF, this is a good move. it diversifies singleton. teams could have looked at him and said ‘well you hafta trade him eventually, you have no opening at 1B.’ using that as leverage. Now the phils have more flexibility to keep him, or possibly trade down the line. options are good to have.

  2. That is really significant. It makes him much more valuable to both the Phillies and other clubs. I believe they intend to keep him but it always helps to have any prospect increase their value. Plus given his plate discipline his development may continue at an above average rate even though he is young. Finally, sooner or later they are going to have to create a new core and maybe guys like he, Brown, the slew of pitchers ect can be a part of that.

  3. It kind of makes me laugh to think with the picks of Hewitt/Collier/Dugan/Gillies(trade)/Hudson….the best OFer of the bunch might end up being Singleton.

    That’s baseball for you.

  4. I know that I am going nuts. didnt someone post last week, they heard he couldnt make the switch to outfield.

  5. the good phight reported this last week. I was waiting to see it on PP. Lets keep our fingers crossed this works out, we could have a sick outfield for years to come.

  6. Interesting comments from mitch williams today on 610. doesnt think brown is ready for major league pitching. says he is a low batter hitter and the pitcher will adjust and doesnt think he is ready to handle big league pitching.

  7. The Phillies do not normally fast track hitters to the bigs. At the earliest, 2013 but likely 2014.

    Brown is going to platoon RF. He won’t be learning much staying in AAA. Brown needs to shorten his swing a bit.

  8. I can almost guarantee that Mitch Williams only saw Brown’s MLB at-bats and is basing his opinion on that limited sample. He didn’t look good, but he was also only getting two ABs a week.
    I will rely more on the scouts who have been watching him all of this year and last year, and who seem to think it is time for him to be starting in MLB. Mitch Williams is an entertaining guy, but he is paid to give opinions whether they are informed or not.
    Great news about Singleton though.

  9. HUGE…for the love of God Rube, please dont trade him. When scouts use phrases like “most advanced approach at the plate I’ve seen since Manny Ramirez”, you hang onto that guy.

  10. This is great news. Pat Burrell and many others have proved it’s not too difficult to be an acceptable defensive LF so let’s hope he can make the switch successfully.

    I suspect the Phils will use Dom Brown next year much like they used Chase Utley in his first season or so, as a platoon guy with Placido Polanco and like they did with Jayson Werth and Geoff Jenkins in 2008. If he accelerates his play like these other two, he’ll be the everyday player sometime during next season. If he does okay or struggles a bit, he’ll probably spend the year as a platoon player and then hopefully start in 2012.

  11. Singleton’s move to LF adds to his resume. Should Howard remain with the team until 2013, then the Phils could have Mr. S available for LF AND 1st base. Trading Howard sometime near 2013 is still possible. Such a trade would place Mr. S at 1st base; if Howard is retained, then Mr. S is in LF.

    The trouble Ryan had with lack of power (foot couldn’t provide the solid anchor) could end up making him a better hitter overall ahead. I’m referring to his success vs lefties in the NLCS…which was surprising to me and against his history. As his foot heals his power should return. He’d then have a better approach IMO vs lefties (keeping the right shoulder tucked in) IF he learned something about that in that series.

    For a couple of years Howard SHOULD be hitting those HRs and be valuable on the trade market. Trading him for good players, prospects and MLB guys, should be done instead of allowing him to reach free agency. Mr. S should be ready by then.

  12. mitch william was giving his opinion, he just isnt ready is his opinion . wish i can remember about his hands and the position, which really is why he felt so strong about it, I would think as a ex pitcher he would know something, but could be wrong

  13. This is definitely promising news. I wonder who else will be in the Clearwater outfield with him. I assume L. Castro has earned a promotion and would probably play RF, with J. James in CF. Maybe keep a D’arby Myers around and a guy like Dabbs for some backup.

  14. Singleton is great news for the long term. Gillies needs to be in position to replace Victorino by 2012. I agree that D. Brown will platoon in RF next year and can take over in the 2nd half is the numbers warrant it. Ben Francisco can probably give you 15 hr 50+ RBI, but with 100+ SO, and .650 OPS. Ibanez will start the entire season next year in left, unless there is someone who can platoon there. Mayberry has been given too many chances and batting .270 in AAA will not cut it. Any discussion on trading Howard is off base, no one will take that contract. The Phillies Organization wanted to keep the homegrown talent for the long haul, very loyal in that respect.

    The Phillies need to turn over the pitching depth and Rizzotti to start upgrading weak minor league depth at 3B and SS. There are rumblings about Tampa’s willingness to trade BJ Upton. He has not played well since 2008, but has some incredible tools. Perhaps the change of scenery in a veteran clubhouse will make a difference. Of course, I wouldn’t give up much to get him. But if Pena is let go, maybe Rizzotti and a pitching prospect will get it done.

  15. Mitch was a pitcher. Now he’s a bloviator … an amiable and amusing bloviator, but a bloviator nonetheless. His job is to say thing that get people jabbering, not to say things that are actually true.

  16. We don’t have a viable replacement or platoon for Ibanez. Again, I wouldn’t give up too much, but the deal would provide a RH bat, fall back for loss of Werth, and high upside. I am looking at it from a productivity standpoint in 2011. The 2012 outfield would be Upton, Brown, and Gillies (a stretch right now).

  17. I think Mitch might be onto something. I think Brown will continue to struggle a little for the first year. He’s done all he can do at AAA, so he belongs in the majors, but the jump between AAA – Majors might be as dramatic as A-AA. He’s going to be facing good pitchers night in and night out. I think everyone who is expecting him to be a .290/25/100 type guy right away might be disappointed.

    Don’t get me wrong, I think he can get there, I just don’t think right away. Keep in mind, he hasn’t really been a full time baseball player for that long.

  18. Certainly, Singleton’s ability to play OF and 1B helps him and the Phillies org.
    I’m also curious about Harold Garcia’s learning to play CF this offseason. If he can provide acceptable defense at that position he can earn a spot on the Phillies roster next year in a role similar to what Ryan Freel had a couple years ago with Cincy.
    His ability to lead off would also fill a huge hole in the batting order.
    It might be a long shot to happen next year but it shouldn’t be too far down the road.

  19. Important development for sure. However, it would be nice if Singleton actually became an average LF, i.e. better than Ibanez and Burrell. CBP is fairly easy for LF so that should help. I assume they will still give him some time at 1B to make sure he can move there if needed.

    Looking at the production needed by 1B compared to OF in the majors is incredible.
    1B’s with OPS > .850 = Cabrera, Votto, Pujols, Konerko, Gonzalez, Dunn, Huff, Fielder, Howard, Butler, (Youkilis and Morneau in shortened seasons).
    OF’s with OPS > .900 = Hamilton, Bautista, Gonzalez, Holliday, Werth, Shoo, Swisher, Braun, Hart, Rasmus, Either, Crawford (Cruz, Burrell (SF), Ordonez in shortened seasons).

    This should allow the Phillies to put Savery at 1B in Clearwater if needed. This Clearwater lineup is interesting:
    James, Castro, Singleton, Valle, Savery/Ruf, Barnes, Mattair, Schoenberger

  20. Rick Wise – Here’s hoping that Garcia is learning to play CF in a semi-emergency type situation. Good for double switches, etc, but not really destined to play there on any regular basis.

    Phils need to keep these guys in the IF.

  21. Yeah, they might just be trying to turn Garcia into an Omar Infante type player–will give you a high average as a line drive hitter as long as he’s not overexposed, and can play every position on the field (except catcher) at least passably.

  22. The only thing Mitch Williams knows about good hitters is that he couldn’t get them out.
    Brown will be very good. And Soon.

  23. this is great news, I know singelton is a good athlete but does anyone know anything about his arm strength? I’m sure no one’s ever graded it very high on the 20-80 scale but given his time spent at 1b I wouldn’t be surprised if scouts paid little attention to arm strength.

  24. NOW Brown has seen major league pitching. Can we wait and see how he adjusts in ST. Nothing lost by Singelton’s switch.

    One thing the team has proven that great players are available during the season. So going down the FA market is unwise. At least try to build from within. If it doesn’t work then grab someone worthwhile.

  25. The Phillies don’t have too many needs, except for possibly the bullpen if Durbin and Contreras leaves.

  26. After watching Singleton play, I suspected he’d adapt fine to LF. The kid was actually drafted as an OF/1B and the Phils announced he was going to 1B but he looks like a athlete, just big. Btw, Savery and D’Arby will both be starting at Reading. Singleton’s move to LF does allow them to play Ruf at 1B at C Water though. Garcia in CF? I heard they were trying him at 3B and LF, I never heard CF. I find that hard to believe. I still think Garcia has a chance to be a major league 2B, just not in Philly. I see him as someone very likely to be traded in the off season in a package with a pitcher for a new rightfielder. I don’t think Dom is ready yet either. His swing is too long and he takes too many off balance slap swings plus his outfield play still needs lots of work. I see him as insurance for Ibanez performance issues next year and as his replacement the following year. If he tears it up in the Mexican League, I’ll rethink it but the Phils are getting old and want to win it all next year and they can’t carry players and still win.

  27. I quess they are looking at Garcia as a supersub with a regular job later.
    Not a bad way to break him in. I hope he excels because the dreaded “winter meetings” are coming up and the front office goes numb.

  28. ISTR Mike Newman and maybe some of those Scouts Who Hate The Phillies ™ saying that Singleton looked athletic enough to handle the outfield. If Singleton pans out the way we hope (and I believe that a lot of folks feel that plate discipline is a great indicator of success), then he’ll probably spend a few years in the OF and then move to first as Howard’s eventual replacement

    - Jeff

  29. Singleton in LF in the AFL is natural. A versatile Singleton gives you options as a GM. The DBROWN hype was natural the kid hit at every level however Mitch is on to something and that is his swing is to long. Compare him to Heyward/Posey with the understanding he (DOM) was not as highly touted as either and you temper your expectations of the kid. He is not of that ilk. I still believe he is a high caliber player just not a star player. Simply put I wish we could keep Werth in RF and move Ibanez so that Brown could play everday in LF with Francisco backing him up against tough LHP.

    Ruben sees that I’m sure and knows he needs RH power. I suspect he will make a run at Werth only to come up short to the Red Sox Yankees or Angels for his services. So where does that leave you? Well you would have to guess with the pitching staff this club has Rubes will look to pull off some type of a big trade for a young RH bat he can control for quite a few years just not B.J Upton.

    A name to watch is Alex Rios if they whiff on Werth or possibly Marlon Byrd.

  30. “He will be tough to replace, unless Domonic Brown develops incredibly quickly. He had a 1.083 OPS against right-handed pitchers this season with Triple-A Lehigh Valley. Ben Francisco had a .901 OPS against left-handed pitchers. If Brown can hit right-handers and Francisco can hit left-handers it just might work. But after hearing Amaro express his concerns about an everyday lineup with everybody in their 30s — everybody in that lineup had subpar seasons other than Werth and Carlos Ruiz — it is a risk.”

    Coming from the Phils this sounds like a “get ready to lose Werth” statement.

  31. Let me repeat baseball saying ” You can’t learn to hit major league pitching in the minor leagues. How can you adjust to something you have never seen. I am sure they are cutting down Brown’s swing maybe as we speark( or is it blog).

  32. Mitch is a smart guy but he gives pitchers too much credit. For example it became apparent that Cody Ross looks middle in and yet every starting pitcher made mistakes middle in to him.
    Brown will make adjustments—-he seems to have good make up and a ton of talent.

  33. I may be a little bit late to this…but John H. could you explain why you think Ben Franscisco will drop .100+ off his career average OPS. He is a career .775 OPS guy.

  34. To Nowheels: The great ones step in and hit from day 1 in the bigs and never look back. What I saw from Dom was a kid with a lot of holes in is swing. I’m not down on him by any means I think he has a ton of raw talent. All I am saying is that I don’t project him to be the same type of hitter as a Posey or Heyward. If he puts up Victorino type numbers thats fine right. I think if you played him everyday he would put up better numbers than Ibanez thats for sure.

    Having said that once Werth goes you have to make up that production from the right side.

    Rios is 29 with I believe 4 years remaining on his deal for an avg of $11.5; Rubens MO is he loves cost certainty and they have always liked Rios.

    You’re right Byrd would not qualify as young. I should have prefaced his name by saying an intermediate solution to their RH needs. In the end I think Ruben is giving us what we want to hear but he would only be willing to pay Jason Bay type money for Werth and not Holliday type money.

  35. First off, sorry about the big league talk, etc

    @DMAR — I guess Mike Schmidt wasn’t a great one by your dopey definition of stepping right in and hitting. Advocating Rios and/or M. Byrd is lunacy. Thanks for the laughs this morning, my first read of your nonsense was that you were making an attempt at satire, but now I think you were being serious. DMAR would have given up and traded Schmidt for a washed up relief pitcher if he/she was running the team.

    Give me a break.

    Dom will be fine in the bigs, yah he’ll go through rough spots but everyone does, but to say he has no chance after 30 or so at bats is Ridiculous.

  36. Byrd is fine with me. He has been consistent the last few years. A one year contract with a team option seems great. At what 3.5 mil?
    Besides he hits lefties well but strangely is much more patient against right .

  37. I heard the Mitch Williams comment about Dom Brown on the radio. He said that Brown had trouble when the ball is above his hands, but that he was a good low ball hitter. This doesn’t sound so bad :

    1. For one thing, most left handed batters are good low ball hitters. So Brown is in good company.

    2. High pitches above the hands are rarely called strikes in today’s baseball.
    Therefore, Brown just has to learn to lay off those pitches and they will be forced to pitch to his strength.

    I expect Brown to show a lot of improvement this year, especially if Werth isn’t back and he gets significantly more playing time. But the Phillies are going to have to address the excess of left-handed hitters. An outfield of Singleton, Gillies and Brown would be all left-hand batting, and when you add in Howard and Utley, you have a lineup that is even more susceptible to left-handed pitching than the one that just got eliminated from the NLCS by mostly left-handed pitchers.

  38. thanks couldnt remember about the hands postion he was talking about. What worries me about brown is his fielding, looks shaky to me, but haven’t seen a lot of him .if he hits in the clutch then it will be a improvemnt over Werth , his clutch hitting was lacking. but werth is a great outfield with speed arm a lot going for him.

  39. All the complaints about Brown’s stance/swing were said about Jayson Werth a few years ago…only it was from the right side instead. Lots of tall guys have big long swings with holes in them.

    The issue is being seriously overblown.

  40. ****you have a lineup that is even more susceptible to left-handed pitching than the one that just got eliminated from the NLCS by mostly left-handed pitchers.
    ****

    Cool Fact: The Phillies actually hit LHP better than RHP in 2010. Mainly because Rollins, Utley, Victorino and Ruiz all killed LHP this year, Polly was about even, Werth had a reverse split somehow and Howard posted an OPS over .800 against them.

    The “susceptibility to LHP” myth didnt really apply in 2010.

  41. Yes, the fact that anyone can think they can draw any conclusion at all from 50 some odd and sporadic at bats is just silly. Going to the majors from the minors is one of the hardest transitions, let alone the fact Dom wasn’t getting regular at bats when he did it. I do believe he will be a star, though im not expecting it right away. They should give him every opportunity to play every day, although I do think they will start by platooning him.

  42. I will add that I am not concerned about Brown’s fielding, he has the raw skills (range, speed, and arm strength) that you cant teach or get from experience. His main problems were odd routes to balls and decision making (throwing to home vs. third or not making a throw). Those are things he can get better at with experience or teaching from coaches.

  43. I said I hated Brown’s swing on here when they first brought him up, but I want to talk about Singleton. If he rakes in Clearwater, he could be in Reading by mid-season, and suddenly becomes a viable option to replace Ibanez sometime in 2012. Of course he wouldn’t make the team out of spring training, but you gotta expect him a dynamic AA LF prospect to factor into the team’s short term plans at that position. I really didn’t expect him to make the team for at least another 4 years, but this smooth transition probably means we won’t be signing any corner outfielders to long-term deals.

  44. Baxter if think you are right about them not signing a long term contract with any outfielder, singleton is a stud prospect and we will know more this year about him,so i believe the phillies will only go one or two year deal with a outfielde
    r

  45. ****suddenly becomes a viable option to replace Ibanez sometime in 2012. ****

    Given his age and learning a new position, that’s really really fast. Spring 2013 is probably the best case scenario if everything falls into place. He’ll be in his Age 19 season in A+ ball next year.

  46. Realistically he wouldn’t be an everyday player until 2013, but given our probable lack of depth at the position in 2012, it wouldn’t be a shock to see him on the roster by the end of the season. In 2012, he’ll be Heyward’s age in 2010. Of course it goes against normal Phillies policy, but he could end up being a special case.

  47. Some of you guys on this site are really fanboys to a new extreme – it’s annoying.

    Trade Brown? I don’t think anyone in this thread mentioned trading Brown. All that’s being mentioned is that RIGHT NOW he might have a hole or two in his swing, and needs to improve defensively. We’re not saying anything about his long term potential.

    I’ll stick to my statement – I think anyone who expects a .290/25/100 season in year 1 is going to be disappointed. I think he can get there, maybe even as shortly as year two, but I just saw too many areas to be worked on (and granted, he didn’t get a ton of AB’s) to be that kind of player right away.

  48. Max you must be semi retarded or you failed reading comprehension in special ed. I never said Brown was going to fail I just said I don’t see him being an elite hitter in this game by the standard of 2 of his piers.

    Secondly to bring Schmidts name into the equation is apples and oranges. In 18 seasons Mike was a .267 hitter with a .908 OPS I don’t think anyone would refer to him as an elite hitter. Different categories my friend.

  49. Wait…Wait a second, you’ve just lost about any credibility you could ever have, and are most likely just Trolling. First you are saying that over 18 seasons, pre steriod era, a career .900 OPS is not a great hitter? What color is the sky where you live?

    So you are saying is you would have traded a guy like Schmidt for a washed up aging relief pitcher. Schmidt not an elite hitter, nice one, once again. But after one season you are ready to jump on both Heyward and Posey and say they will have a better career than…oh never mind you are an idiot

  50. Though a poster said that the Phils did batter against lefty pitchers than righties in ’10. Does that include their hitting more HRs vs. lefties. I don’t know the stats but I’d doubt that. Maybe somebody can answer that.

    Nevertheless, RA has (appropriately) said that the lineup NEEDS better balance Rs & Ls. The question, to me, comes down to the power stats: there are two power lefty HR guys in the lineup. With Werth gone, there will be NO righty w HR power. CBP, as it plays, is a HR park where they play 81 games. And both Brown and Singleton, the most promising of our hitters, are also lefty hitters.

    That is out of balance: the see-saw remains down on the left side and the other end remains up in the air. What is needed soon is a righty power hitting 3rd baseman plus another righty to play the OF. The system remains bare of those needs. For now, until they can “find” such a guy for 3rd, they need to obtain TWO righty outfielders w some power. Yet I’m not sure how, since the farm system has been emptied aside from pitching prospects.

    Rueben needs some extreme creativity to accomplish that even though, with a healthy lineup for most of the 162 games, the team should generate better offensive numbers in ’11.

    Francisco has not shown the ability (yet) to allow expectations for him other than the 5th outfielder. Could he do better? Don’t know, but it would be foolish to expect him to show more than he has to now.

    Ibanez MUST be traded even if the Phils will have to eat some of his salary. With 29 other teams out there, they SHOULD be able to help a team in need of pro lefty hitters. His righty replacement must be found by RA. Dom will need a righty to platoon with at first in addition to the replacement for Ibanez.

  51. LOL yeah the sky is purple here Max. I bow down to your superior knowledge of what constitutes an elite hitter. I’m sure most of our esteemed board here would agree with you that our beloved Michael Jack was an elite hitter.

  52. ****In 18 seasons Mike was a .267 hitter with a .908 OPS I don’t think anyone would refer to him as an elite hitter.****

    Just a heads up, a 3B who posts a career 147 OPS+ is an “elite” hitter. Especially when that same hitter led the league in OPS+ 6 times (including 5 straight years) and posted an OPS+ over 150 in 10 seasons.

    You dont get much more “elite” than that as a hitter. I take it you have no familiarity with the average offensive season from the mid 70s to late 80s. This was an era when 30 HRs meant “elite slugger”

    I mean, of all the stupid things I’ve ever seen someone write…

  53. I would be stunned if Brown hit .290/25/100 in 2011. It’s more likely he goes .265/15/70. He’s still pretty raw, it’ll take time for him to become a star.

  54. *You dont get much more “elite” than that as a hitter. I take it you have no familiarity with the average offensive season from the mid 70s to late 80s. This was an era when 30 HRs meant “elite slugger”*

    Perfectly said.

    As for DBrown give the kid some time to get some at bats. I mean anytime you judge a guy on such a small sample size you definitley run the risk of getting too high or low on a prospect. (I do remember DB hitting a moonshot into the third deck this season on a side note). But let’s keep it in perspective that this was the guy’s first time in the bigs and looked like he was squeezing the bat too hard.

    Back to the topic I think any opportunity for Singleton to get out there and learn a new position only adds to his immense value inside and outside the organiztion.

  55. As good as Heyward was this year, he did not hit .280, he did not hit 20 HRs, he averaged a strikeout every fourth at bat and his postseason appearance was forgettable with 8 strikeouts in 16 ABs. and a .125 BA. This is not meant to put down Heyward, but just to keep our expectations for Brown realistic. What Heyward had was good plate discipline and that is something Brown needs to develop to be successful.

  56. Mike Schmidt not an elite hitter??!!!! LOL!!!!

    As Bill James once noted, if Mike Schmidt had been a .320 hitter and not a .275 hitter, this discussion would not have been whether Schmidt was the greatest third baseman of all time (and he was), but whether he was the greatest player of all time.

    If you had a team full of Mike Schmidt calibur players you would win 120 games a year.

  57. We just differ on what I would call an elite hitter. Babe Ruth was the epitome of an elite hitter. Albert Pujols is an elite hitter Frank Robinson was an elite hitter. They are very rare. The elite hitters of Schmidts era lacked power but they were Gwynn and Boggs however we are not living in 1977-1987 and I have no ill intent towards MJS he’s a true HOFP.

    Again DBROWN shouldn’t have the expectation of Heyward or Posey or CARGO. I’m just saying those are his peers and his numbers will be looked at next to theirs no different than Howards are looked at next to Pujols.

    Hell by your standards you would call Dunn an elite hitter.

  58. They’re not rushing Singleton anywhere near the speed that some of you are suggesting. i’d be very surprsied if he didn’t play almost the entire year in C Water. This is a very young kid learning a new position who totally fell apart at the end of the year this year. They need to see him finish strong in the league he’s in to know that he can do it before they can advance him. The C Water team should have a great chance to win that league with the talent going there and there aren’t that many open spots art Reading next year other than possibly infielders mid year when Garcia and Overbeck should get promoted if they do well. Compression of players is tough as you go up the ladder. Let Singleton hit .300 with 20 HRs and play an adequate LF in C Water all season and I think we’ll all be very happy. He could then move quickly in 2012 and make Philly sometime in 2013 when he’d still be young (22) but ready.

  59. Heyward had 91 walks, 277 avg what a joke didnt hit 280, 18 homeruns and i believe he play hurt for a while, very impressive for a young kid,

  60. mikemike, the 91 walks is what I meant by plate discipline. He did play hurt for a while and didn’t play a full season. He was good, but if you expected him to hit .300 with 30 HRs you would have been disappointed. Since none of our prospects are as highly touted as Heyward, let’s not expect too much from them.

  61. ****Hell by your standards you would call Dunn an elite hitter.****

    Someone has no idea what they’re talking about.

    You cannot compare raw stats from different eras like that.

  62. DMAR – I define elite hitters by the number of runs they generate. Mike Schmidt was elite by any definition – he generated a huge number of runs (he was also a great fielders and base runner). Huge. Batting average is a very limited definition of who is elite. Batting average was the ONLY area in which Mike Schmidt was average. In every other area of offensive production he was extraordinary far outweighing his ordinary batting average. If you want to say that Mike Schmidt was not an elite hitter for average, be my guest, that’s correct. But an elite hitter overall? He clearly was.

  63. fyi – the elite hitters of Mike Schmidt’s generation did not lack power – the ballparks were bigger and the pitching and fielding was better. It was a fairly balanced era in baseball. Had Mike Schmidt played in CBP or the in the late 90s anywhere he would have lit up the stat board like a pinball machine.

  64. Interesting to call Gywnn and Boggs elite hitters when Schmidt’s career OPS+ was higher that both of them.

    Not sure I would judge an elite hitter based simply on batting average..

  65. The statement that started this was ” The great ones step in and hit from day 1 in the bigs “. Schmidt was under the Mendoza line his first full year.
    Sandberg didn’t hit .300 until his third year. If fact I think he was about 2 for his first fifty AB’s. But can we just discuss baseball without getting upset.

    Does Heywood shave yet?

    BTW Sandberg was a great baserunner as well . Not in SB’s but he scored from second most every time. In fact when he did get thrown out once the crowd reacted with an “oooohhhh”

  66. KevinLin: Perhaps I was trying to reinforce Francisco’s status as a platoon player with no expectation as a starting OF in .675 OPS instead of the career .775 OPS.

    DMAR: I wouldn’t mind the Rios option if it were for less years. Still intrigued by the tools that Upton brings and the Rays look ready to give up on him.

    Murray: I cannot see them trading Garcia with the need to bring in the younger players to the big club and lack of IF depth. Unless there can be a swap for SS or 3B. Not sure if Garcia can play SS in the event of another Rollins injury. Of course, he should finish a full year at AA first.

    If Werth does not resign, I think Ruben stands pat until mid season before making a trade for a RH bat. There should be a decent sample of Brown / Francisco platoon and general health of Ibanez by then. The pitching alone will keep you in the race until then. If the last three years are indicators, Ruben is willing to make the mid-season trade. Though, the days of blockbuster trades may be over.

  67. Remember this Christmas present
    12/6/06 Acquired RHP Freddy Garcia from the Chicago White Sox in exchange for RHP Gavin Floyd and a player to be named later.

    Can we play some prospect next year PLEASE.

  68. I think that Ruben will make a run for Upton. Ibañez is getting too old and could be moved or taken out of the lineup by the all star break making room for Brown. Then 2012 would be Upton, Brown, and Victorino. That is a filthy outfield with guys like James, Gillies, Singleton etc. Waiting in the wings. I feel like our outfield is going to be great for years, we just have to add more infield depth.
    I had a discussion earlier in the year with a worker at Lakewood and he said don’t be surprised if Singleton gets moved to the outfield because he is extremely athletic and works harder then most guys he has ever seen. I am excited for the future because it is very bright and the phillies are going to be great for years to come.

  69. Gavin Floyd was pitching like p*&^y for the Phillies. He never was going to succeed here. Gio Gonzalez was a bigger loss.

    I think if Amaro looks for someone he will look for a Ryun Raburn or Matt Diaz. Other interesting guys are Grady Sizemore (Jayson Werth take 2), Brandon Webb or Rich Hardin (if he moves Blanton for an outfielder), Upton (fits team profile of athletes), Jeff Francouer (another athlete). He might even give Mayberry a chance.

  70. Oh yeah, and I knew Mike Schmidt. And Sir, Micheal Jack Schmidt was an elite hitter and ranks in the top 100 all time baseball players.
    Can you imagine him hitting at the Bank?
    And home runs were not as big part of the game because it was a speed game with Astro Turf in the round cereal bowl stadiums of the era. And yeah he hit a buck ninety eight his first year. He also hit a lot of home runs. His first year, you could see what the Phillies had. And they stunk anyway so they could let him mature.
    By the way, one of the Buck brothers, prt of the ownership group, died the other day. For what its worth, the Bucks are a very nice family.

  71. Grady Sizemore . . . . what a great, great idea. I’d love for them to bring him in. They should also bring in Brad Hawpe. What the hell. Let those talented guys fight for time in the outfield. It’s what Werth did.

  72. Off topic but I’m not sure where to put this the phillies have already declined the option for left handed pitcher J.C. Romero.

  73. I was wondering why such a relatively tame topic had so many topics, then I scrolled up and saw that someone thinks – not only that Schmidt wasn’t an elite hitter – but that NO ONE could think he was one because of his lousy BA. :) I didn’t think anyone could unite the diverse readers of this site, but clearly I was wrong. :)

  74. Grady Sizemore is a great idea but you have the health factor there as well. If he could stay healthy he would be one of, if not the best outfielder in the league.
    I am not a big fan of Hawpe but if we could get Upton I would definitely do that because if he struggles we have Brown and Francisco. I also like Brandon Webb but I don’t see us getting him, the bad part about that is that he has a good shotof going to the Nationals.

  75. What’s nice about Upton is that he is so young. Many great players kick around for 3 or 4 years before hitting high gear. Compare Bonds’ age 24 year with Upton’s age 25 year – it’s pretty similar and, although Bonds was a year younger, they had about the same amount of big league experience going into that year.

    I am not saying Upton is another Bonds, just that Upton could be due for a big breakout.

    How is Upton in the clubhouse? I have no idea.

  76. I have a feeling TB is going to ask something significant for Upton. Amaro isn’t exactly playing with unlimited minor league talent, that is unless you are willing to part ways with Singleton, Cosart, or Colvin. I really like the BJ Upton idea (especially seeing someone like Delmon Young blossom with a change in teams), but the Phils just don’t have many pieces to work with. Upton is young, is still 2-3 years from FA, and was once a .300 20HR player at age 22. I just don’t see it happening.

  77. Bottom line is this – there will be a RH power bat in our OF next year and there will be an OF spot filled by a platoon of Ben and DBrown.

    Here are the uncertainties to me –

    A) how Ben and Dom split that playing time will depend on how well Dom is playing. B) How much of Raul’s contract they have to pick up will determine how much they can spend on the RH OF bat. Raul is a steal for a team on a one year deal at a lower price so I expect the Phils to use some of Eddie Wade’s $16M to offset Raul’s deal.
    C) They will not go crazy on years or $ for Werth. They would resign him to an Aaron Rowand type deal (different player I think they feel) but if somebody goes above that, he will go. Will someone? I think so.

    Last offseason there was a lot of talk about if Hamels and Lidge return to form, our staff would be fine. They both did, and our staff was fine. (Adding the Roy’s didn’t hurt either). Our offense in my opinion is the same way – if Jimmy, Chase, Shane, and Ryan all have the same 2011′s as there 2010′s we are going to struggle to score runs and if those guys mostly return to form we are going to mash next year, independent of what we do in LF and RF.

    Also it will be interesting to see how quickly RAJ moves. He has signed Raul and Polly super fast the last two offseasons, but he indicated the other day that the Werth situation would take a while to work itself out. We’ll see.

  78. Sizemore’s projected return date from micro-fracture surgery is mid to late 2011. He’s not an option for next year.

    Upton is said to have motivation issues and his stats are not that impressive. Depends on the price basically.

    On Michael Jack: In 1980, he hit 48 HRs and had a OPS of 1.004. The next closest guy in each category had 35 HRs and a .902 OPS respectively. Think about what type of gap that is and compare it to now. He hit 33% more HRs than any other NL player and his OPS was over 100 points higher. He was the best hitter in the game for several years in a row. He was elite. He was the very definition of elite. And I am arbitrarily suspending your Phillies fandom as a result of your blashemy.

  79. mitch williams said bring back burrell next year. he will be cheap can help, and he wants to retire a philly

  80. Can we get back to talking about Singleton? Actually, there really isn’t too much to say, other than hopefully he fields adequately and continues to hit the way he did – I’m looking at the total numbers for the season, not the hot first half/cool second half splits – and even in the latter half, he was still drawing walks.

    Howzabout we start the Top 30 – it’ll take our minds off of the big club for a bit

    - Jeff

  81. Sorry, back to Singleton…I would expect them to take it slow with him due to his age and position change. I wouldn’t be surprised that, even if he’s pounding the ball in Clearwater, for him to spend almost the entire season there with maybe a “get his feet wet” promotion to Reading in early August.

    Top 5

    1. Dom Brown
    2. Jonathan Singleton
    3. Jarred Cosart
    4. Brody Colvin
    5. Trevor May

  82. Francisco and maybe Mayberry will be the bench OF’ers (always a chance Phils will pick up another OF) They will platoon with Brown unless Brown outplays Ibanez at some point then the platoon will switch to LF. Werth could always resign but if he does I expect Rube to work a trade for Ibanez to leave – not sure to where but likely for some low level prospect (along with cash) or for another overpaid player like a pitcher.
    The team will need another LF’er after next year I doubt Singleton will be ready by then but he could fall into the mix if he fast tracks and has another great season. I really doubt the Phils would trade one of the all time best power hitters (Howard) to make room for a prospect. He sells tickets so he will stay atleast for awhile – likely thru the end of his contract.

  83. If Upton has motivation problems he likely will not end up on this team. The Phillies are developing, for lack of a better term, a team “ethos”. They want their players to have a certain attitude and approach – much like the Pittsburgh Steelers in football, the Utah Jazz in basketball and the Colorado Rockies (the Rockies value team chemistry to an enormous extent) and Minnesota Twins. Having watched this core group of players for several years now I think there is an awful lot to the team chemistry approach – in a long season that often turns on the outcome of just a few games, this can be huge.

    But sometimes an otherwise decent kid can get down on himself and life and just needs a change in environment. As for Upton, since Crawford is leaving, I’m not sure why they would trade him but I say this not knowing what is in their minor league system. Hey, maybe they can sign Pat Burrell . . . or not.

  84. Pretty clear we scared off the Dbrown/Michael Jack hater…. hilarious, he was obviously ignorant in the ways of baseball…

    That said, good news on singleton, howard isn’t going anywhere and while the final years of his contract won’t be favorable, given the ways contracts inflate, it likely won’t be too bad. (plus I think he’ll maintain an >.900 ops average for the first 5 years). Given that, singleton is a lock for LF if he plays decent. The thing for me is him putting up good numbers next year, his second half was horrible and slightly worrying.

    Quick survey.

    Option A – 50/50 Singleton Flops (5th outfielder/AAAA player) vs Becomes average MLB player (either at 1B or LF)

    Option B – 20/40/40 Singleton Flops (5th Outfielder/AAAA) VS becomes average MLB player VS Above Average MLB Player (Again, at either 1B or LF)

    Option C – 20/40/40 Singleton becomes average MLB player VS above average MLB Player VS Multiple time All Star

    Option D – 70/30 Singleton becomes Multi-Time All Star VS multi-time MVP Contender

    I think he will either fall into the B or C buckets… and next year will determine where I place him, what’s everyone else think?

  85. @Supra

    It’s really too early too tell, but my guess is that if he taps into his raw power, and continues to show his advanced plate discipline, the likelihood is that he will be an above average/borderline All-Star type player. Are there any scouting reports on his glove – I’m not expecting Mark Grace, but I think that having a good defensive 1B is pretty underrated (and I could be saying that because my teen years were spent as a good field/no-hit first baseman).

    - Jeff

  86. I found this over at Scouting the Sally (http://scoutingthesally.com/2010/08/scouting-report-jonathan-singleton-1b-philadelphia-phillies/), so he sounds like he should be an average to above average defender at 1B:

    Defense: Athletic for a young man his size, he has decent footwork around the bag. His wing span makes him an excellent target at first base and should allow him more range than similarly built players. Singleton’s arm was solid average, although I’m not sure how well his 3/4 arm slot would play in the outfield as his ball would have considerable tail. With average speed, he could probably be a serviceable left fielder early in his career, but he will need to be flanked by a plus centerfielder to account for Singleton’s likely lack of range.

  87. I think you could see Rube go after someone like Magglio Ordonez for a one year stop gap if they feel Brown is not totally ready. Ordonez is getting old, but can still hit and has some power. He played with Polanco, so they can get a feel for how he “fits” in the clubhouse. Assuming the price is right. He would have a lot more power at CBP than that monstrous stadium in Detroit.

  88. Ordonez would be great because he crushes LHP, hits RHP fairly well, hits for lots of contact and doesnt really strikeout all that much.

    He’d be the perfect fit for us in the 5 hole. I dont see it happening though.

  89. I don’t think Ibanez is going to get traded. He was adequate in LF, he’s a great clubhouse guy, and the Phillies have nobody right now to replace him. Not to mention his $10.5M salary. If the Phillies eat some salary to trade Ibanez, whatever savings they receive they will need to spend on another veteran bat. So moneywise, it’s a wash, and you have no idea if the guy you bring in will be better than Ibanez.

    Odds are, Ibanez stays in LF for 2011 and walks after. Hopefully Brown performs enough to show that he can be a fixture in RF. Then you can use some stopgaps in LF until SIngleton is ready.

  90. Ordonez would produce one of the worst outfields in baseball. Though, the one year stop gap approach makes sense.

    I would rather the team give Mayberry, Francisco, and Brown a shot at playing time. See what shakes at the trade deadline, unless there is a great trade to make out there right now. It seems that mid-season trades have energized the team in the past.

  91. Ordonez would likely be too expensive. If the Phils have enough money to sign Ordonez to a one-year deal (and I think that he would want a multi-year deal), they might as well simply re-sign Werth. Tampa Bay will probably ask for a haul for Upton, who’s probably not worth it. I think that Andruw Jones would be an interesting platoon option in RF. He was paid $500,000 this year and he’s mashed LHP this year and over his career.

    The our future outfield (LF -CF – RF) would be:
    2011: Ibanez(L)/Francisco(R) platoon – Victorino(S) – Brown(L)/Jones(R) platoon
    2012: Francisco(R)/??? – Victorino(S) – Brown(L)
    2013: Singleton(L) – Gillies(L) – Brown(L)

    The 2013 OF would make for a lefty-heavy lineup with Utley and Howard. That may not be horrible, as Utley has a reverse split for his career, Brown didn’t have much of a split until Triple-A, and Singleton doesn’t have a big split.

  92. ****2013: Singleton(L) – Gillies(L) – Brown(L)****

    You really see them fielding two rookies in the OF like that? Not a chance in hell of that happening.

  93. I think Ibanez will be partially platooned. Real tough lefties and in general for some rest. He is not untradeable, just not going to get a good player back in return. We could trade him for Fukudome from the Cubs (who actually makes 13.5 M). I would guess the Cubs would even eat some salary, but even though he is right handed, not sure that he upgrades. Him being from Japan and Charlie’s history in Japan could make him an interesting option, but he does not have much power. He does get on base though and his contract is done at the end of the year.

  94. The Cubs are stuck with Soriano in left (and THAT is an untradeable contract). They’d have to move Ibanez to right field and I doubt they would want that defensive alignment.

  95. I beginning to like the Magglio Ordonez idea. If you ask me, I’d rather have Magglio for 2 years and an option 3rd year at $15M a year than have Werth for 6 years at $18-20M a year.

  96. Word on the street is that Carlos Quentin is available.

    I wonder what the Sox would want for him.

    He’s entering the 2nd year of arbitration, and is coming off 2 injury plagued seasons.

  97. I wouldn’t bring in Magglio for more than one year, which would be tough because someone will offer two years. His defense is sub par, leaving Victorino to chase balls to compensate for the slow footed Ibanez and Magglio.

    The Fukadome option is intriguing and his performance was way down last year. The Cubs may be willing to eat some contract.

  98. 1)It doesn’t matter what kind of 1B that Singleton is, I bet he never plays there again
    2) Garcia cannot play SS and is a 2B only. They’re trying him at 3B and LF but I’m not expecting either to work. There’s a good chance he gets traded at some point because he can be a major league 2B and the Phils don’t need one of those any time soon.
    3) Utley will stay at 2B for years to come. Its the only position that gives his bat a large advantage.
    4) Ordonez is definitely a one year option but a 2nd tier player is more likely. Matt Diaz or Milledge are more likely additions.
    5) Burrell will not be a Phillie again
    6) Bullpen changes are coming. Bastardo and Matheson should make the team out of ST. Stutes, Schwimer and DeFratus will all be invited to major league camp and at least one of them will be in the majors at some point next year. My money is on DeFratus. Ultimately, Stutes could take Durbin’s job (6th), Schwim could take Contreras’ job (7th), and DeFratus could take Lidge’s job after next year but possibly switching places with Madson.
    7) Ibanez will not be traded
    8) Upton will not be a Phillie next year

  99. I tried to steer it back on topic. I really tried. Lemme give it another go:

    @NEPP (or anyone who is trying to keep the discussion about the Minors):

    Do you think that Singleton would rank as #2? Brown is obviously #1, but I would think at least one of the Colvin/May/Cosart triumvirate would be #2. I personally am leaning towards Singleton over the pitchers, just because I think a position player has a higher chance of being a “sure thing.” That being said, my top 5:

    1) Brown
    2) Colvin
    3) Singleton
    4) May
    5) Cosart

    Heckuva top 5, IMO

    - Jeff

  100. I think Brown falls off the list by being in the majors. That puts Singleton in the top spot IMO. Why not Valle in the top 5? I assume the higher value is on position players and starting pitching. Otherwise, DeFratus would break the top 5.

    Tough to have a top 5 without anyone in AA or higher prospects. Hopefully, Aumont and Gillies will earn their way up the list next season. Still a decent top 5 with a bright future. Interested to see how next season will progress for all of pitching prospects.

    I am actually more interested to see how quickly Savory will perform over a full season at 1B. Can’t help but think the organization overvalued him as a pitcher coming out of college.

  101. Jeff, everyone on your list except Brown hasn’t proven anything above low A. So, while there is a lot of promise and hope there, these prospects are really early in their development. I’d be more impressed with the system if there were more top prospects closer to contributing at the MLB level. However, long term it does look rosy, since there are a lot of prospects at that level or lower even beyond those you mentioned.

  102. Singleton playing 1B or OF depends majorly on where the Phillies can find hitters in their system or the draft. If they get a power-hitting 1B, he’ll stay in the OF. It simply adds to his list of abilities.

    I like the move. I am not sure why people are concerned with moving Howard when our top priorities in the infield should be at SS, then 3B, followed closely by 2B, and then 1B. Howard should be fine at 1B until his contract is up, but Rollins is fading fast and Utley seems to be becoming more and more injury prone. Polanco should be solid for as long as he lasts, but 3B has been a hole for this team since Polanco left the first time.

  103. I’m pretty sure Brown still qualifies for the top 30, going with the Rookie Eligibility Requirements.

    If we include Valle, then you can pretty safely say that the Phils top prospects not named Domonic Brown are from Lakewood – I don’t think that any of their higher prospects would beat out Singleton, Valle, Colvin, May or Cosart. Gillies maybe, but his year was lost to injury and personal issues. I’m still not sold on Aumont, especially ahead of any of the aforementioned guys. You could make a case for Worley, DeFratus, Stutes or Schwimer to be in the top 5- but three of them are relievers and Worley is a back of the rotation guy. They’re all (well, maybe not Stutes) in my top 10 but I don’t think they can crack the top 6.

    Whatever the case, ranking the top 30 will be a fun task

    - Jeff

  104. The only reason Ibanez would get traded/cut is if the Phillies have an immediate replacement for him. Since they don’t, Ibanez is sticking around.

    Matt Diaz has a decent bat but since he’s arbitration eligible, I won’t speculate on this until the Braves non-tender him.

  105. My thinking was that the Phils trade Ibanez (yes, would probably have to eat a part of his salary), have Magglio take over RF, and have Brown take over LF.

  106. I guess it all boils down to who are the young players that will be on the bench and eventually step in to start after contracts expire.

    Current Roster with infusion of younger players over the next three years:
    1. Mayberry as RH bat off the bench and replace Ibanez in 2012 (a stretch)
    2. Platoon of Francisco / Brown with Brown FT in 2012
    3. Who is replacing Victorino in 2012? Move Brown to CF and Francisco in RF.
    4. Will Garcia be a late season call up in 2011, Utility Player off the bench in 2012, and replacement for Polonco in 2013?
    5. Rupp or Valle backup Cooch in 2012, and replace in 2013.
    6. Galvis stepping at SS in for opening day in 2012? Because Rollins will command at least a 3 year deal, not sure the Phillies will oblige.

    Not too confident with the replacements as they stand in the system right now.

  107. Since Amaro has said he is concerned with the age of the club, I think that Mayberry will get a long serious look as an outfielder platooning with Gload. Remember 3 years ago Werth was regarded as a platoon guy with Jenkins. I also think that Francisco will get about 300 at bats next year instead of the 170 he had this year. I think D. Brown plays at least half the season at LHV

  108. Mayberry is an afterthought at this point. They may keep him around because there is no harm in doing so, but there’s nothing he’s done to suggest he’s anything more than a possible 5th outfielder, at best.

    Francisco is probably going to get a look and he deserves it. I think he could easily end up being the biggest surprise at the big league level next year and it’s worthwile for them to see what he can do. That being said, if Werth leaves I am 100 percent sure the team will acquire another outfielder who they believe can hit.

    On Rollins and Utley – I expect both of them to come back strong and I expect Howard to do better. They are all mid-career, but none of them is old by any stretch of the imagination. But their production as a group will continue to decline so the team needs to start bringing in younger players who will improve.

  109. Here’s another guy to consider… Allen Craig from the Cardinals. Plays LF, 1B and 3B. Has shown a lot of power in the minors, bats righty and probably could be gotten for one of our minor league relievers.
    He’s blocked by Holliday so he is available.

  110. I put Singleton above the pitchers for a couple reasons. One, as a LF, the offensive bar is a good bit lower than what he needed to achieve as a 1B. Two, he has a very advanced approach and hitters tend to pan out much more consistently than pitchers…especially when all 4 guys are at the A ball level.

    I would put Valle in the 6-10 range (probably #6) simply because his OBP skills need a ton of work, even for a catcher.

    Worley would probably be in the Top 10 somewhere too as he still qualifies as a rookie and he’s at least pitched in the majors now.

  111. “You really see them fielding two rookies in the OF like that? Not a chance in hell of that happening.”

    Whoops, I overlooked that point. I suppose that Gillies could be in a platoon with Francisco in 2012 and/or Singleton platoons with Francisco in 2013, with the possibility of other FA righty bats coming in.

  112. I’d probably put Tyson Gillies, Jesse Biddle, Harold Garcia, Justin De Fratus and maybe even Cameron Rupp in the Top 10. If not Top 10 for Rupp, I’d have him in the 10-15 range as he’s my darkhorse guy for 2011.

    As for JC Ramirez and Phillippe Aumont, I’d have Ramirez ahead of Aumont and both of them in that 10-15 range as well. Schwimer should be in there too at some point as he’s nearly ready for a MLB shot.

  113. “”Remember 3 years ago Werth was regarded as a platoon guy with Jenkins””

    I had a weird thought(really). It’s almost like we owe Jenkins for being so bad.

  114. Jenkins wasn’t terrible…he was an okay bat but he was simply done. Great team guy and he handled the demotion from starter really well. It was a sad day when we cut him to keep Stairs…even if it was the right move from a business/baseball sense.

  115. Word on the street is Phils want Costanzo back at Lehigh Valley as insurance for Polanco and perhaps a replacement for Dobbs.

  116. Sorry about Fukudome – he throws right. What about trading Victorino for Matt Kemp who the Dodgers have soured on. Another option is Swisher from the Yankees, who is actually a switch hitter, but with better numbers against lefties (not a huge split though except OBP). The Yanks may just want to free up Salary for Crawford and Lee. Would you trade Singleton to get Matt Kemp? He or Victorino would be fine in right with the other in center. The Dodgers have soured on him and want to save money.

    By the way, I think Maglio Ordonez will be more like $6 million with an option or maybe a little lower with an at bat vesting option since he has been injury prone. Kemp made $4 last year.

  117. I’d probably trade Singleton for Kemp. James alluded that he knows about some Kemp trade rumors on twitter last week. Kemp coming over could actually be a potential upgrade over Werth. Let’s hope it happens.

  118. Being from So Cal, I can tell you there are alot of people who think Kemp is not a very bright player, his base running is, well he seems to make mistakes on the base paths. Having said that I would think at the right price he would be a good acquistion, his skills are outstanding. Sometimes players mature slower that it would seem they should.

  119. Please stop with trading Ibanez. According to Cots Contracts, he has a no-trade clause and I doubt he would waive it.
    Planning on Singleton’s time in the Majors is a real stretch at this point. He will develop at his own pace, but I agree that locking up any OF long term does not make sense given the OF talent in the minors with Brown, Gillies, Singleton, James, Altherr.
    I think it makes sense to try Mayberry against lefties for Ibanez and Brown with Francisco in his similar role. If Ordonez ends up out of good options getting him for $5M would be great, but I would expect him to stay in the AL.

  120. Here we go again with the crazy trade talk. Do you know how much money the Phillies would have to eat to trade Ibanez? He’s 38, a poor LF, who had a terrible first half of the season. The Phillies would probably have to eat at least $6M minumum for teams to even get interested.

    Trading Kemp for Victorino? How does that make sense for the Dodgers? Trading a 26 year old who making’s $7M in 2011 and still arbitration eligible for 2012 for a 30 year old who is due $17M for the next 2 years. If the Dodgers wanted to save money, they could let Kemp walk after 2011 or trade him for prospects.

    This is not fantasy baseball where you can fleece your buddies. To me, this trade talk is totally irrational.

  121. Glad to see that Singleton is adjusting well to LF, like one other guy mentioned before he will be there for a few yrs then slide in at 1b after howards deal is up and is caught looking at strike 3 as NY yankee. Sorry to bring that up I am still bitter. Anyway I live in CA and seen a few LA games and we don’t want Kemp, has a bad attitude, and strikes out a ton, do we really need that just b/c he is RH? Looking forward to spring training already, i think the team comes out and plays the season with a chip on their shoulder and wins the whole thing next yr.

  122. Trading Ibanez makes sense because – what do the Phillies get from playing him? They would need his spot to develop a player. No matter who they put in that slot, he will be with the team for more than one year. It could be used as a platoon to keep a bat on the bench fresh. It could be used to help juggle lineups, to have an extra right-handed bat in the lineup on days against left handers. They could want to just give every at-bat to Fransisco to groom him to be a trade bait.

    WHATEVER the Phillies decide to do, there is nothing to be gained by playing Ibanez anymore. If they don’t play him, I would expect them to sit him.

  123. Ibanez gets traded only if they get a right handed starting OF (such as Werth resigning) if not he stays

  124. nowheels – maybe that report came from the Delco Times – any time a Delaware County native gets drafted, that paper treats the player like he’s a Superstar.

  125. Good for Singleton. He will likely be the first in line if there is a LF opening around 3 years off.
    Now the MLB situation- No to Upton and Kemp, both similar types- streak of Laziness- sloggin’ away till payday comes, heads not always in game- do not fit the profile of holdovers and players brought in by regime- do not fit.
    Magglio Ordonez- somebody said 15 million a year( even that is a reduction from what he made the last few years) Werth won’t make much more than that. As to a platoon role, which would be for little money I guess some believe, unlikely he comes down from his pay level for that, and an American League team would like a DH like him, I believe , so he can do better elsewhere.
    Ibanez is not far off from top offensive standards around the league and did well down the stretch and when the rest of the team went South for a spell in the middle. No need to move him in the final year of contract, and if they did they would likely have to get a similar replacement.
    They will have 12 pitchers and 5 bench players next season for all likelihood , and they can’t operate with 2 OF only guys on bench. Bench- C (Schneider) SS defensively capable of regular play if needed (Valdez) 1B-OF (left handed hitter Gload) OF reserve (Francisco). 5th guy on bench can’t be OF for the long haul and they can’t go season with 1 reserve IF. Need a 3B capable (at least ) reserve IF also capable of spelling Ibanez from time to time and also RH bat. Correct answer- Miguel Cairo- one year deal at near minimum. Put the money into more pitching.

  126. With all due respect, the problem on this is not, was not, and is not going to be pitching – it’s going to be scoring runs consistently. They may need to make several moves to shake that up, but same old, same old on the offense isn’t going to work.

    The pitching is almost completely set. The only pitching acquisition they need is to get a lefty relief specialist. And they should probably re-sign Contreras. That’s it. The rotation is set and will be even stronger because Vance Worley is going to show that he’s a legit middle of the rotation guy – I could not have been more impressed with him in September/October. He is not a fluke. He throws hard, has a bulldog mentality and has several good pitches – this is a salute to our minor league pitching instructors – they did a whale of job with Worley. The rest of the rotation is solid (if righty dominated). Our bullpen will be fine. Bastardo is ready to become a very exciting pitcher and Mathieson, Schwimer and Stutes also provide good options. Maybe they pick up another guy to replace Durbin, but the changes with pitching are all the margins. The key guys are good and are set.

    The problem is hitting. I cannot tell you how many games I went to this year where they did absolutely nothing. It was painful and, as the postseason provided, it was not a mirage. They need to shake things up and RAJ has shown he is capable of doing this.

  127. sorry for all of the typos – trying to get in points between real work. It makes for some ugly sentences.

  128. Ibanez does not have a no trade clause, but the fact that he will be 39 and defensively inefficient, as well as prone to long hitting slumps may as well be a no trade, because there isn’t anyone looking to take on that kind of contract. Phillies happen to be in a very select handfull of teams that can take an increase in payroll. Look around the mlb, most teams are slashing payroll, so unless a team is that starved for a 39 year old left fielder with defensive liablilty and streaky hitting, Raul isn’t going anywhere.

  129. Jim Salisbury said that the Phils might look to move Lidge this offseason, slide Madson into the closer’s role and that the Phillis could go after Cliff Lee if they don’t resign Werth.

    Interesting

  130. ****Ibanez does not have a no trade clause****

    Um…YES HE DOES.

    Raul Ibanez:
    3 years/$31.5M (2009-11)
    signed by Philadelphia as a free agent 12/16/08
    $2M signing bonus
    09:$6.5M, 10:$11.5M, 11:$11.5M
    no-trade protection

  131. Trade Brad Lidge? Even though he was better in the second half, he’s not lights out anymore and he’s injury prone. Add to that, he’s making elite closer money $12M+. Again, the Phillies would have to eat at least $5M for teams to get interested.

    Cliff Lee is looking to get paid. This wil be his first and last shot at FA. Unless the Phillies increase their payroll, there is no way they sign Lee even if they trade Lidge. Somebody is going to give Lee 4 years, $80M and it won’t be the Phillies. And if the Phillies do increase their payroll, they should re-sign Werth instead of going after Lee.

  132. I’ll bet he’d waive his no trade clause to go to a “better” team. Trade him to the Giants for Pat Burrell! (Just kidding)

  133. Of course I meant Ibanez. Maybe its not so off -the-wall. Pay Burrell 6 million and Raoul 6 million and its a wash + we get a right handed bat.

  134. If I recall correctly, the no trade clause that Ibanez received covered his first 2 years and expires next month (Nov. 2010).

  135. THIS is where the Phillies pitching money can be spent.

    -Resigning Oswalt next season (if all things pan out)
    -Resigning Hamels in the future
    -Paying for better relievers, should not cost much.
    -A new closer (Madson is not a closer.)

    The majority of their money needs to go to hitting, especially with this team’s crappy hitting. A new hitting coach too.

  136. Oswalt still has a $16M option for 2012.

    Hamels is looking to get paid. He can easily get 5 years, $85M.

    Closers on the FA market typically get at least $8M per year.

  137. sdcaphil, it seems like Victorino and Kemp have alot in common being talented but make many bad decisions on the field. Victorino is a better fielder and baserunner but Kemp is the better hitter.

  138. I cannot see the Phillies picking up Oswalts 2012 option for $16M and expect to extend Hamels at the same time.

    I assume that Madson, Matheson, Schwimmer or De’Frates step in as closer in 2012. Otherwise, I would like to see the Phillies make a play for Soria from KC.

    You still need to have a mix of veterans and young players. At some point, the Phillies can evaluate the pitching, relief or bullpen and use the depth to make some trades.

    It’s like a broker picking up stock, there are so many options for the Phillies in terms of pitching in the system. But there is not enough room for everyone and you still need some experience to keep winning. There will be some blown games next year given a young bullpen. The sixth and seventh may be lost before getting to Madson or Lidge.

  139. If you could trade Singleton for Michael Taylor right now, would you do it? Oakland kept Taylor in the minors last year seemingly to delay the start of his arbitration years.

    That would bring back the RH bat and pharmhand, creating a possible double platoon in right and left next year.

  140. ****If you could trade Singleton for Michael Taylor right now, would you do it? Oakland kept Taylor in the minors last year seemingly to delay the start of his arbitration years. ****

    Not a chance in hell. Taylor isnt in the same class of prospect as Singleton.

  141. “Jim Salisbury said that the Phils might look to move Lidge this offseason, slide Madson into the closer’s role and that the Phillis could go after Cliff Lee if they don’t resign Werth.”

    Man, they must be handing out free doobies (not Rich Dubees) at the Philadelphia Inquirer. I find it hard to imagine the Phillies chasing Cliff Lee or Cliff Lee easily forgiving the team’s slight of him (from everything I heard and read, he really took it personally and, how can you blame him, what the hell more could he have done for this team?). In any event, as I noted earlier, the problem with this team is not pitching. They don’t score consistently and their core group of position players is aging.

  142. What gets me is charlie says they arent the same hitting team, but have b etter pitching, then why not bunt more to put pressure on the other team,. most times three or four runs is enough with oswalt, hamels and halladay,why didnt victorino steal a base against linecum in the eighth of the final game, 26 of 30 have been successful against linecum? charlie is still thinking it 08 and the three run homerun is waiting

  143. Catch 22 f/k/a H Man and NEPP: Thanks, I was looking for a strong response. But how can you assume that Singleton at this point will be better than Taylor?

    I only made that a proposition since Taylor was still in minors waiting for his chance, familiar with the organization, and would give the team a young player who can contribute now.

    Not too far fetched, but still unrealistic – yet intriguing all at once.

  144. ****But how can you assume that Singleton at this point will be better than Taylor?****

    You can’t assume it obviously. However, Singleton will likely end up as a Top 50 prospect this off-season (if not higher). His ceiling is much much higher than Taylor’s. I’d rather risk him not realizing that ceiling than take a known quality in MT. MT is never gonna be an all-star OF…there’s still a chance that Singleton can be. MT was a freshman at Stanford at Age 18…Singleton was tearing up the SALLY League.

    Besides which, at this point, if we wanted MT back, it would cost far less than Singleton. MT will be in his Age 25 season next year and he isn’t a favorite to even make their 25 man based on his AAA numbers this year. His swing (from reports) is all messed up as he’s the biggest contact hitter on earth with little power. Granted, I tend to think that 2010 was an aberration (You dont just forget how to hit and he had already shown he could hit AAA pitching in 09) for him and he’ll be much better than he was in 2011 but even if he realizes his ceiling, I’d rather risk it with Singleton.

  145. Hey, John: You can’t really assume that Singleton will be a better player in the long run, and none of us on here are professional scouts (I think….), so we kind of just have to rely on actual scouting opinions and projection, and it appears that Singleton has a higher projection at this point.

    Taylor, for whatever reason, seems like he won’t ever hit for much power (according to scouts), and seems like his ceiling, if everything breaks right, is a Nick Markakis type player– .280 to .300 batting average, 8 to 15 HR a year, average to above average RF defense, good arm. Definitely a nice player to have. Singleton’s ceiling is (again, according to scouts) higher than that; if everything clicks, he could be a poor man’s Manny Ramirez–.300 to .310 avg, 20-25 HR, good OBP, no idea on his LF defense yet.

    If everything breaks right for both of these players, Singleton is the one you’d rather have on your team. Taylor is definitely more a sure bet right now though, as he’s proven his ability to hit at least decently at every level, whereas Singleton was last seen struggling (though not terribly) in Low A.

  146. Mind you, I was a HUGE MT fan when he was in our system and I was sad to see him go but they made the right choice keeping Dom over him. I’m not saying all this to trash MT one bit. I really hope it comes together for him and he has an MLB career…in Oakland or anywhere else. I cheer on all our former phuturephillies.

  147. ****whereas Singleton was last seen struggling (though not terribly) in Low A.****

    I hope he “struggles” in Clearwater as badly as he struggled in Lakewood. Though I get what you were referring to with his rough (but still solid) 2nd half.

    Taylor’s problem, per scouts, is that his swing is all arms and no legs. Thus he gets nothing into the ball…lots of contact, no power. For a guy that’s 6’6″, 260lbs that’s not good. He doesnt have to hit 50 HRs a year but 25-30 would be great. Right now he’s a 10 HR guy. He needs to tweak his swing and get back to the guy that was tearing up Reading/Lehigh with 20 HR (with 28 2B) in 491 PA. That’s decent power…not great but decent.

  148. Yeah, NEPP, believe me, I’m definitely not a “Singleton was awful in the second half” guys, just that his second half was noticeably rougher than his astronomically good first half.

    I, too, would be extremely pleased with a 19 year old putting up a .290 average with power in Clearwater!

  149. If he gives us an .872 OPS in 2011 despite going to a pitcher’s league…I’ll be very happy. That’s great for a 19 year old LF prospect.

    I wouldn’t be shocked if he does even better than that.

  150. Guys, this isn’t even particularly close. Singleton has MUCH more value than Taylor at this point. Of course that’s not carved in stone – heck, a year ago the opposite was true – but the following can’t be emphasized enough: players who perform as well as Singleton in low A at that age almost always have a major league career, are frequently major league regulars, and often end up starring. Now, of course Taylor is also likely to at least get a cup of coffee in the majors. But his chances of being a regular or star are, at this point, much less Sangelton’s.

  151. Just wondering why so much Taylor talk coming off the season he just had and his age. do you think he is major league ready.

  152. Taylor was hitting a combined .320 20 hr 84 rbi with only 70 SO his last season in the Phillies system (AA+AAA). He also hit .346 19 hr 88 rbi 89 SO (A- A+), grant it after a full college career and time to develop physically.

    It seems that the trade to a new organization side tracked his performance, much like many of the old Phillies prospects traded over the last few years.

    I believe he was major league ready then, not sure if he took a step back with Oakland. But still a RH bat at CBP who makes good contact and doesn’t strike out much should develop a home run swing over time. He would fit in well in the current lineup.

    For me the question was based on trading a talent that is 4 years away compared to one that is ready now. A win now team would consider the trade as such, maybe not exactly JS for MT + 1, but something similar.

    NEPP: If “Besides which, at this point, if we wanted MT back, it would cost far less than Singleton.” is true, then it should be looked at.

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