Open Discussion: Week of September 12, 2021

This is the courtesy thread for comments and discussion about the Phillies and other BASEBALL topics.


The Phillies (72-71) went 2-5 going 1-2 against a superior Milwaukee team and going 1-3 against Colorado, one of the supposedly easy teams on their schedule.  We lost the two games we picked up last week when Atlanta went 4-2 against the Mets and Marlins.

The Phillies have let the Mets back into the division race if you believe the Phillies are still in it.

For those who still torturing themselves –

  • Phillies (72-71) 19 games remaining
  • 3 v Cubs, 3 @ NY Mets; 3 v Baltimore, 4 v Pittsburgh; 3 @ Atlanta, 3 @ Miami
  • Atlanta (76-66) 20 games remaining
  • 3 v Colorado, 3 @SanFran; 4 @ Arizona, 4 @ San Diego; 3 v Phils, 3 v NY Mets
  • NY Mets (72-72) 18 games remaining
  • 3 v St Louis, 3 v Phils; 2 @ Boston, 3 @ Milwaukee; 4 v Miami, 3 @ Atlanta

The Phillies are closer to the final wild card spot than the division title.  But, there are more teams in front of them.  Probably some of them are better teams (from among the Reds, Padres, and Cardinals with the Mets a half-game back).


Key Dates:

  • Oct. 3, 2021: Regular season concludes
  • Oct. 4, 2021: Rebuild begins

Transactions (last week’s transactions)

9/12/2021 – Phillies optioned C Rafael Marchan to Lehigh Valley
9/12/2021 – Phillies activated C Andrew Knapp
9/12/2021 – Phillies designated RHP Enyel De Los Santos for assignment
9/12/2021 – Clearwater placed 2B Wilfredo Flores on the 7-day IL
9/12/2021 – OF Logan Cerny assigned to Clearwater from FCL Phillies
9/11/2021 – Phillies placed CF Travis Jankowski on the 10-day IL, right foot contusion
9/11/2021 – Phillies activated RF Matt Joyce
9/11/2021 – Phillies optioned RHP Ramon Rosso to Lehigh Valley
9/11/2021 – Phillies designated RHP Vince Velasquez for assignment
9/11/2021 – Phillies optioned RHP Enyel De Los Santos to Lehigh Valley
9/11/2021 – Phillies recalled CF Mickey Moniak from Lehigh Valley
9/11/2021 – Phillies recalled RHP Adonis Medina from Lehigh Valley
9/11/2021 – RHP Tyler Phillips assigned to Reading from Jersey Shore
9/11/2021 – RHP James McArthur assigned to Reading from Jersey Shore
9/11/2021 – Clearwater sent RHP Sam Jacobsak on a rehab assignment to FCL Phillies
9/10/2021 – RHP James McArthur assigned to Jersey Shore from Reading
9/10/2021 – RHP Tyler Phillips assigned to Jersey Shore from Reading
9/10/2021 – Jersey Shore placed C Vito Friscia on the temporarily inactive list
9/10/2021 – Jersey Shore placed RHP Tyler McKay on the 7-day IL
9/10/2021 – Clearwater placed RHP Cam Wynne on the 7-day IL
9/10/2021 – Clearwater activated 2B Casey Martin from the 7-day IL
9/09/2021 – Lehigh Valley activated RHP David Paulino
9/09/2021 – RHP Hans Crouse assigned to Lehigh Valley from Reading
9/09/2021 – LHP Kyle Dohy assigned to Lehigh Valley from Reading
9/09/2021 – RHP Christian McGowan assigned to Clearwater from FCL Phillies
9/09/2021 – RHP Chi-Ling Hsu assigned to FCL Phillies from Clearwater
9/08/2021 – Phillies placed RHP Zach Eflin on the 60-day IL, right patella tendinopathy
9/08/2021 – RHP Julian Garcia assigned to FCL Phillies from Reading
9/08/2021 – RHP Andrew Baker assigned to FCL Phillies from Clearwater
9/08/2021 – OF Jadiel Sanchez assigned to FCL Phillies from Clearwater
9/08/2021 – Clearwater sent RHP Fernando Lozano on a rehab assignment to FCL Phillies
9/08/2021 – LHP Tyler Adams assigned to FCL Phillies from Clearwater
9/08/2021 – Clearwater activated RHP Chi-Ling Hsu from the 60-day IL
9/08/2021 – Clearwater activated LHP Rafael Marcano from the 7-day IL
9/08/2021 – FCL Phillies activated LHP Riley Wilson from the 60-day IL
9/07/2021 – Phillies sent C Andrew Knapp on a rehab assignment to Lehigh Valley
9/07/2021 – Phillies sent RF Matt Joyce on a rehab assignment to Lehigh Valley
9/07/2021 – Phillies sent 3B Luke Williams on a rehab assignment to Lehigh Valley
9/07/2021 – 3B Nate Fassnacht assigned to Jersey Shore from Lehigh Valley
9/07/2021 – RHP Colton Eastman assigned to Lehigh Valley from Reading
9/07/2021 – RHP Austin Ross assigned to Reading from Lehigh Valley
9/07/2021 – RHP Noah Skirrow assigned to Jersey Shore from Reading
9/07/2021 – RHP Blake Brown assigned to Reading from Jersey Shore
9/07/2021 – LHP Erubiel Armenta assigned to Reading from Jersey Shore
9/07/2021 – Jersey Shore activated OF Corbin Williams from the 7-day IL
9/07/2021 – Jersey Shore released OF Corbin Williams
9/07/2021 – OF Simon Muzziotti assigned to Jersey Shore from Clearwater
9/07/2021 – SS Kervin Pichardo assigned to FCL Phillies from Jersey Shore
9/07/2021 – Clearwater activated 2B Wilfredo Flores from the 7-day IL
9/06/2021 – RHP Christian McGowan assigned to FCL Phillies
9/05/2021 – FCL Phillies released LHP Chris Micheles
9/04/2021 – Jersey Shore placed LHP Manuel Silva on the 7-day IL
9/04/2021 – Jersey Shore activated RHP Mark Potter from the temporarily inactive list
9/04/2021 – Clearwater activated C Arturo De Freitas from the 7-day IL

272 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of September 12, 2021

  1. Just back from a beautiful week in OCNJ. It doesn’t appear that I missed anything good. I for the most part wanted to enjoy my vacation so I didn’t watch too much baseball other than to look up a few scores here and there.

    It appears it was a smart choice. One tidbit I noticed was that the Rays locked up Neander so he won’t be leaving the nest anytime soon.

    Where has Bohm gone? I don’t see that he has played any games in quite a while unless I missed something.

    1. He was hit by a pitch in an LV game and later in the game he was removed, haven’t heard anything on him since.

    2. Yes, all, he was hit by a pitch and removed later. He actually took part in the later brawl pulling Heineman I believe out of the fray. However, he is not hurt. The September callups were announced 2 days later. Draw your own conclusion.

      1. So if he’s not hurt and he’s not playing, I’m going to conclude that they’re working with him on swing adjustments. At least that’s what I hope given that info.

    1. The Phillies may very likely finish the season 82-80, for which the organization’s PR will rave about how they finally finished above .500, yet sadly this team won’t be one degree closer to being a contender. To say this roster is even top heavy is inaccurate. It’s at best disjointed. I’ll have no satisfaction from the final 19 games of the season, barring a miracle. Outside of Harper, and possibly a disappointing Realmuto, there isn’t any other gut check player. No killer instinct. No energy. And a roster of predominantly replacement level talent.

  2. The last 3 days of my vacation Hurricane Larry was off shore producing some incredible waves at the Jersey Shore. The likes of which I had never seen in 40+ years of vacationing there.

    It reminded my of LarryM a great poster here for many of the early years.

    Funny thing when your sitting on the beach looking at that type of surf. It looks so angry and tumultuous. But if you changed your eye level and looked further out to sea it seemed as calm as could be.

    LarryM had a knack for the long view as opposed to staring at what was right in front of us. Perhaps DD is in a similar circumstance.

    1. Hah….I remember .LarryM…he enjoyed hiking in the mountains…I guess he is doing a lot of that these days in the Rockies..

  3. Great post DMAR! First, I was with my family the week over the 4th of July in OCNJ. We go every year, and now the Grandkids love it as much as I did as a child. But, I fondly remember LarryM, and miss his views on the team and the system. I have no idea why he stopped posting, and I hope he is ok!

  4. LOL. Every time I officially throw in the towel on the season, I take one last look at the standings, and reality smacks me right in the face: The Phillies are still only 2.5 GB of WC2.
    I mean I’m ready to move on to the 2021 season autopsy. I’m ready to post a list of possible upgrades for 2022. Somebody just make it end … please.

    1. Problem with the wild card is there are what…4 teams ahead of the Phillies? Let’s place our hopes on DD making effective changes in the off season.

      1. You’re probably right, mark.
        I’m concurrently rooting for both another 8 game win streak, and for the Phillies to lose every game left on their schedule so they get a higher draft pick next summer.

        And … yeah, I’m looking forward to Dave Dombrowski placing his thumbprint on this team’s roster in a meaningful way this offseason.

  5. The Team is a tease every year same thing. Hopefully DD makes changes but we need to build up the system. No way this team makes wild card they will be behind the Mets by next week. All they are is a 500 team. Even if they made playoffs they would be swept.

  6. The Phillies have a Matt Klentak problem. He spent four years and lots of money building one of the two (LAA) most average teams in MLB. And there is no worse place in sports than the middle.

    We’ll soon be at the annual fork in the road. That’s where management has to decide on whether to “go for it” next season, or think long term, and tear it back down again. Pretty sure (with DD/Harper/JTR/Wheeler/decade long postseason absence) Middleton will choose “go for it”.

    With a pretty crappy farm system, Dombrowski will have to break the news to Middleton: “John, we’re gonna’ have to throw money at this (Klentak) problem”. However, throwing money at FAs will likely lock the club into long term financial problems.

    With all that as the back drop … I think the Phillies match up with any of the A’s, Twins, Rays and Brewers on trades this offseason. Those clubs are all cost conscious, and could be open to deals where they get to shed money. Dave Dombrowsk/San Fuld also have a recent history with Jon Daniels/Chris Young so the Rangers may also be a team to keep an eye on.

    Dombrowski should have Texas 3Bman Isiah Kiner-Falefa near the top of his “want” list. His bat is mostly average, but the glove is just what the Phillies need.

    Oakland is facing a payroll crunch because of a boat load of arbitration cases. I love Ramon Laureano. He’d be a God send in CF. Beane/Forst could be open to moving him because of his PED bust. Even better, the A’s could consider dealing Matt Chapman coming off a down season (for him) and set to make 10M dollars next year.

    The Phillies like Byron Buxton. Maybe the Twins asking price comes down if DD takes on Josh Donaldson (and the 50M+ he’s owed).

    It’s always dangerous dealing with the Rays, but they might consider packaging Kevin Kiermairer and Tyler Glasnow. Those two are set to cost Tampa ~18M in 2022. The Rays have Manny Margot as another CF option. Margot gives them close to the same production at a fracture of the cost. Glasnow will miss all of 2022 with TJ. He’s under team control through 2023.

    1. Billy Beane is always looking to save on some $$$$$:..not sure he’d be willing to save this much however,
      —Rhys, Alec Bohm, Mick Abel and Adam Haseley to the As,
      ……Lauereno, and the two Matts….Olson and Chapman.
      —Then sign Story.

      1. Love the outside the box thinking, Romus!
        I was more envisioning Dombrowski taking on Stephen Piscotty (overpaid at 7.5M) to lower the cost on Laureano or Chapmen. But … hey … if you and Dombrowski want to really open things up, why not?

        I personally would only consider Abel as part of a package to land a guy like Bryan Reynolds. The Marlins asked about him this summer. Ben Cherington reportedly asked Jeter/Ng for three of their top 10 prospects. With that in mind … would you/anybody do Abel, Stott, and Rojas for Reynolds?

        1. “……….would you/anybody do Abel, Stott, and Rojas for Reynolds?”
          Toughie……Abel and Rojas…yes,
          …Stott, on the other hand, I am hesitant. And after Segura goes he slides right into that middle infield spot ..either 2B or ss.
          ILO of Stott maybe Luis Garcia if Cherington is interested, though Garcia is probably two, maybe three, years behind Stott as to ETA to the majors..

      2. Last winter, after Dombrowski was hired, felt more like a feel-his-way-along Middleton’s framework for spending. THIS winter will in my humble opinion marked by fairly big Dombrowski-esque trade…something along the lines of what Romus suggests. Go get a top young MLB star player for fledgling prospects with some upside…and yes I do like Bryan Reynolds. Laureano? Maybe, but not for that type of Romus package.

        This roster needs an enema and DD is one exec who’s got the chops for it, even if it means trading some cost controlled yet unaccomplished players with promise. The air in the clubhouse needs to be changed. There needs to be an edge. Perhaps signing a crabby veteran who can still produce could replace the good guys who have broken down.

        And yes, sign Story.

  7. Wanted to see reaction here to offseason trades I put in over on baseball trade values. I could see Middleton giving the OK to go all in money wise for next 2 years if there’s a plan to strenthen the farm. The Phils pretty much have to do this if they want to make the postseason and set themselves up to not have a bad payroll in the future.

    I have the Phils taking on Hosmers from SD contract and getting Lamet and Morejon for BP. I also have them getting Varsho from the Dbacks to play CF in a 3 way trade. Sign Michael Taylor from KC for plus defense in CF if Varsho proves to not be a CF.

    I would also like to see them trade for Lopez from KC to play SS and have them getting Staumont for BP also tho that would take alot.

    Trade Nola for prospects. I would trade Eflin for prospects also but he is injured and has never proven to be past knee issues.

    Sign Semien for 2B, Escobar for 3B, and Verlander/ Scherzer. Maybe DD can find a way to trade Didi and Segura.

  8. Romus, I think Mick Abel is the one prospect that does not get dealt. And, quite frankly, I probably would not trade him either. And, it would have been helpful is Middleton had not hamstrung DD when he got here with a salary cap. It held through the deadline. You can see by the $ back that we got to stay under. And, it’s Middleton’s own fault. Had he hired Chaim Bloom instead of MacPhail and Klentak, he would not have to spend all this money. Rather than feel sorry for him, he should feel sorry for us, for putting us through these past 10 seasons.

    1. matt13…I ca understand someone’s reluctance on moving on Mick Abel….he is a valuable player with a great deal of promise. Turns 21 next year….and may be in Jersey Shore.
      If he stays healthy….never has any injuries, which is a roll of the die, correct?
      He probably sees CBP in 2024…. I mean he only has 44 professional innings now….and they use to like HS-drafted pitchers to have 500 minor league innings in years ago …..that is probably now down to 275/300 with advanced metrics and training techniques.
      Still the lower level of a success rate for hi-velo HS pitchers is documented.
      And his highest value will remain high for the next 2/3 years if he stays healthy.
      The Phillies should be in the win mode now…..Harper/JTR in 3/4 years may be on the decline….Hoskins also if he is still in Philly.

  9. “The Phillies have given up 16 home runs this season on 0-2 counts, the most in the majors.”
    ………I guess the high 4Smr FB is no longer used to get a batter chasing

  10. Great point, Romus! Can someone explain that to me? Is it pitch selection, approach, simply poor execution? Why would they even throw a pitch that could be hit out 0-2? 16 times!

    1. JTR calls the pitches …here is his take,
      “….”We’re just not executing our pitches when it comes to 0-2 counts,” “We have the least amount of wasted pitches 0-2 which means we’re throwing more pitches in the strike zone 0-2 than anybody in baseball. And with today’s hitters, there’s a lot of chase in the game. You don’t always want guys chasing a strikeout two or three pitches in a row, but 0-2 is a good time to do it. I think our guys have the right intent. Obviously, they’re not trying to throw the ball in the middle of the plate. We’re just not doing a very good job of executing in those counts and it’s something that we have to work on. You have to be able to put guys away when you get into those advantage counts.”

      ……..the only pitches he should call on 0-2 or 1-2 counts….are hi FBs.
      Phillies hitters have no problem swinging and missing on those pitches….perhaps opponents will do the same.

      1. the last two 0-2 pitches I saw replays of leaving the yard were IMO, really not bad pitches in terms of LOCATION including Neris’ on Sept 12th, they just didn’t “move”, like Tealmuto said in the quote Romus provided. But mighten there be another problem, that the Phils reluctance to go to a large portion of their pitching staff requires them to have game plans designed to minimize pitch counts, leading to the “least amount of wasted pitches in the league?”

  11. I think Realmuto’s season is about what the Phillies should have expected. Top three catchers by WAR in the NL are Contreras (3.6), Smith (3.5), and Realmuto (3.0). He’s a 30-year-old catcher. The three best seasons of his career were ages 26-27-28, which is totally normal.

    If the Phils get another 3-win season from him next year, and over the final three years get 7 wins, total, the contract will work out to $115 million for 13 WAR, which is about average, Maybe a slight overpay.

    It’s rare you get a screaming deal on a free-agent contract. Scherzer on his current deal. Maybe a few others. But it’s not common.

  12. Bust up the team. Tear it down. Get prospects and young players to build a real contender not just a 500 team.

  13. Regarding Velasquez’ DFA, which I don’t have a problem with. I do have a problem with and question the timing and Girardi’s lame explanation. Specifically, “We are going more with the bullpen game than the fifth starter. We needed relievers in those situations. We just felt it was the move to do.”. This should have been done back when Anderson was DFAed. That’s when they should have realized they were in bullpen game mode. Making the right move 2 weeks too late is an example of bad managing. Or, should I say another example of bad managing.

  14. FWIW, Pirates claimed de los Santos.

    Romus…….concerning Abel, if we can’t develop players, if we can’t scout our own players, if we can’t research and draft and select players, then how in the world do we know what we have is worth keeping. So, what does it matter who we keep or trade away. Seems to me if our Milb system is in shambles that is an indictment that we don’t know what the “hell” we are doing and we are very good at it!

    1. Skeet, Maybe another question is “when will you know the people who get it right”? If development takes a couple of years, and you just changed people in your drafting, how long ’til you know if they are good or bad? Is it everyone in the Phils organization that is bad? Dusty Walthan? Ray Burris? Ned Price? Sal Agostinelli? Brian Barber? A lot of people on this site were very pleased with the last Phillies draft, but how long is long enough to wait?

  15. Need to make big trades so we can move money to a new core. Top of the list is JT and his black hole of a contract. Guy has a very average bat and a very average defensive catcher. Take his 25 million and out it in legit hitters. Let the young kids like marchin play D and hopefully hit in the clutch

    1. JT is not worth his contract on the open market, so you’d have to basically pay someone else to take him, probably by assuming a lot of the money and perhaps adding a prospect. But, okay, say you trade him, who is your catcher? This is the big problem with a team that has a weak system. Where are the replacements?

      Also, guess what? Curtis Mead has now gone from low A ball this shortened season to AAA. This is going to give me an aneurysm.

      Anyway, I do like what Rojas and Garcia are doing. Garcia has filled out and has now shown both good power and excellent plate discipline – a magical combination for a good fielding middle infielder. He’s a really, really good prospect this point. If his fielding is as advertised and he can hit, say, .260-.275 with decent power and very good plate discipline, he could become a first division regular, perhaps even an occasional all-star

      As for the team rebuilding, whether or not this would be a wise thing to do, it’s not going to happen. Middleton would never allow it. However, he has to give DD some flexibility to remake the club on the fly. But he shouldn’t it do it at the expense of most of our best prospects. That system needs to be rebuilt come hell or high water and DD’s public comments make it clear that he is well aware of this and demands it.

    1. In the debate over whether to rebuild or reload, it appears to me the answer is reload. We have an owner who wants to win now. We have a president of baseball operations who is oriented toward winning now. We have a field manager who has one more year on his contract and probably would love to win so he can enhance his value when he returns to the broadcasting booth.

      And we all know the predicament: Not enough talent to trade and an owner who is shy to breaking the salary cap.

      So, whatever we want or wish at PhuturePhillies, let’s deal with the reality of what we probably will get.

      Personally, I have confidence in DD. I think the return he got for Spencer Howard shows how shrewd he is. And, with a decent core of Harper, Realmuto, Hoskins, Wheeler and a couple young guys to develop (Bohm? Stott?) and a few players added from trades (like those suggested by Hinkie) 2022 has a glimmer of hope. I hope.

  16. I think Dave Dombrowski will address the following needs (in no particular order):

    1. manager – Joe Girardi may agree/request to be released from the final year in his contract instead of officially being fired, in order to preserve his brand and either go elsewhere or return to work as a studio analyst. One in-house possibility may be Dusty Wathan. Or DD goes outside the organization to reel in someone he’s comfortable with.

    2. free agent SS – Story’s my preference, although Semien is an older, shorter term, less costly solution.

    3. CF – more of a catalyst to anchor the outfield instead of the current cut and paste, pick from a hat approach. Doubt DD signs TWO FA position players but a trade here (maybe for a guy like the Pirates’ Bryan Reynolds?) could be in Dombrowski’s wheelhouse.

    4. starting pitcher – another legitimate arm, probably a veteran who can be reliable to regularly go 6-7 innings. Hinkie’s mentioned Verlander on a 1-yr deal. Something like that might help the bullpen from being overused/exposed.

    5. closer- Brad Lidge was our last lights out (and likable) fireman. This past decade has been unforgettable in this department, and for all the wrong reasons. Not sure who’s available but if we can get Hader for Rhys, I pull the trigger.

    6. 1B – whether DD trades Hoskins or makes him the new DH, I tend to think a rotation will be in order to rest guys like Harper and JTR. So another acquisition is less likely here. Bohm would be a candidate, unless the POBO has lost confidence in him and uses him as trade bait.

    We’ll see…and not soon enough. This season has been thumb screws to a Phillies fan.

    1. Lol so basically the whole team needs to be replaced 🙂

      Need a solid #2 starter. It’s clear that is no longer Nola.
      3B, SS, LF, and CF, and a solidified closer for sure

      1. Nola is absolutely having a below average season for him, but I think there’s still a ton of upside there. Thank God the Phillies didn’t overreact when Carlton had bad seasons after his 27-10 year. So, yes, Nola could perhaps not improve, but I believe in the stuff and the pitcher. I think it is even more likely he makes adjustments, turns it around, a returns to being a solid #2 or better.

        By the way, although I don’t buy the metrics fully, they already have Nola as a #2 (or even #1). Personally, I don’t think he’s been that good (we all see him wilt in the middle/late innings), but when he’s on, you see the brilliance. He just needs to be more consistent.

        1. Yeah Nola’s been very frustrating to watch but we have to remember he was never supposed to be a #1 or a #2 he was drafted as a fast moving #3, #4. He’s a developmental success story and I think it’s reasonable to expect he bounces back next year to be more of the 3.50ish guy he should be.

          He has a 3.41 FIP and I think it’s safe to say we’re the worst defensive team in the sport. I’d imagine if we could field a more competent defense that would be step 1 to fixing his problems.

          Likewise he isn’t the first “In his prime” pitcher to have a down year.

          Roy Halladay after winning the Cy Young in 2003, in 2004 he posted a 4.20 ERA.

          We all know how poorly Cliff Lee pitched in 2007 and came back and won a cy young in 2008 and developed into arguably the best pitcher in baseball.

          Cole Hamels went 8 and 14 with a 3.60 ERA in 2013 then put up a 2.46 ERA in 2014.

          The key for Aaron Nola next year is for him to fix whatever mechanical issues he’s fighting this year, ditch that cutter (which I think is contributing to his inability to get on top of the ball) and come back to a better infield defense.

  17. Lol you fall in their trap reload??? They been reloading for years that’s why they are just a 500 team and a team that tease us phans every year. Also, yes they are awful at talent evaluation and they can not develop talent. Yes you all seem to say many in this site is happy with the current draft. Well after every draft you guys say you’re happy with the draft. Need to clean house.

  18. More proof of lack of talent in the Phils is the fact that the Giants just clinched. Gee maybe Krapler wasn’t so bad. Look what he did with the Giants. All you guys blame the manager Joe G is a decent manager has no talent at all. Plus I have been saying all along wheeler won’t be good in about two or three years he will be average and JT is over hyped, Hoskins is a dime a dozen. Your so called core is on the other side of their prime and will all be on the down side soon. So why not get value when you can. Make a good team and stop the 500 nonsense.

    1. You sound like Steve Martin’s advice on becoming a millionaire….first, you get a million dollars. 🤣

    2. Your so called core is on the other side of their prime and will all be on the down side soon. So why not get value when you can.

      I bet a bunch of Giants fans made this same argument last season.

  19. I sense lots of emotion resulting in calls to reload. I actually think DD will bring Girardi back as manager and he will add pieces around the fringes again while I expect a trade or two of prospects. You can’t trade Bohm off of this season and have to hope he bounces back as a hitter. I expect they’ll chase a CF like Marte and Story is likely high on their list too. They’re going to have to spend to get out of this hole. I could see them trade Marchan and Garcia and maybe Rojas too. It’s also time to move some stuck talent like Haseley and Moniak. They need a change of scenery. DD will be busy.

    1. I have full faith that Bohm will hit if that keep him….I have no clue where he will play.
      He is a two position player…LF or 1B.
      Similar to guys like that in the past…Burrell, Bull, Brewers’, Braun and Padres’ Myers, Reds’ Castellanos….all players that had to be moved to survive in the majors .off their college / HS drafted positions…Phillies need to make a similar move with Bohm this off-season and stick with it.

      1. They have to agree that he can’t stay on 3B. Plus if they sign a SS, Didi will have to play 3B for a year. You can’t trade him after this season and they won’t eat his contract.

      2. Romus, Bohm has to become more than the world’s biggest singles hitter. He’s 25. Perhaps past time to develop power.

    2. If the Phillies start dealing solid young players like Garcia and Rojas, you can be sure that we are going to have a lot of mediocre to bad years ahead.

      Listen, we all need to re-set our expectations. Would we be okay with the Eagles selling everything to have a playoff contender (not a real championship contender, a playoff contender) for a year or two? Absolutely not and rightfully so. Playoffs are an initial threshold – championships are the goal.

      1. What do you think the odds are that either or both becomes a starting MLB player? An all star? I think the reality is that those odds are not as great as we would all like to think.

        1. It’s not about whether they become stars. If they develop into solid starters or first-division regulars, you’ve got young, cost-controlled pieces that allow you to allocate resources to other areas of need.

  20. I understand the sentiment to blow it up, and the frustration that causes that feeling. But, let’s be realistic. This team is not trading Harper or Realmuto or Wheeler, so I, myself, have 2 choices. Hope that DD is allowed to do what he was brought here to do. And, that requires spending, and the salary cap be damned. Or, hope that the team loses for a couple of more seasons, which will see a teardown and rebuild, but which will also require a new POBO, and another shake up of the entire organization. I can’t hope they fail. Part of that is that I have rooted for them for so long, I need to root for my Baseball team, or I don’t have a Sport to follow in the Summer. And, I love when they are at least good. And, part is also a complete lack of trust in Middleton to hire an architect to successfully complete a rebuild. We were just faced with this, and he gave us MacPhail and Klentak. So, no arguments from me that a rebuild is not the thing to do. I just cannot go there without, at least, Dombrowski trying to fix it. And, he was not given that chance yet.

    1. matt13….Dave D. will probably make his mark this off-season. And looking at a .500 or so team, plus or minus a game or two under or over, for three years running.
      It would be that insane definition frequently quoted, to come back with the same players next season.

      1. Romus, I have no qualms whether the Phillies go for it in the off season or totally rebuild. Problem is when they try to do both. There’s no such thing as retool…that’s a futile attempt to appease both camps. Realistically, you can’t ride 2 horses with one a$$. With DD at the helm, we can make a pretty educated guess…and with Harper alone in his prime, with his contract, they would be seen as wasting these years and that money away. Middleton doesn’t want to be known as the guy who didn’t go for it when he talked about doing whatever it takes…despite his apparent shortcomings as managing partner. So…we’ll very likely see big money spent (over the LTT) and big player movement this winter…for better or worse.

        1. That is how I also see it……however i do not think they will blow pass the LTT like the Dodgers, that is too high….it will be just enough, so that the following year they have the flexibility to get under the threshold and reset.

  21. Romus, I agree. Dombrowski will not bring back the same bunch. The question is how many new faces, and what it will cost to bring them in. Sure, FA will play a part, and that is just money. But, we haven’t seen a signature DD move, no I don’t count the Spencer trade that way, and I am fully expecting one. I don’t want it to include Abel, but I am positive it will involve someone I would like to have kept. I just hope it’s a successful trade.

    1. matt13….you do realize, by the time Abel gets to Philly, and then also becomes an impact pitcher, if all goes well….2024 or 2025…Harper and JTR will probably have already started, or into , their decline.
      Hoskins and Wheeler …who knows, probably gone….and Nola also gone or in his decline, which could be starting now for all we know.
      Mick Abel is probably one of the highest, if not the highest value player in the system . So a return could be very noteworthy and it would have to be a player ready to contribute in 2022..

      1. In order to acquire the calibre of talent he’s looking for, DD may have to include the younger prospects like Abel and Rojas, while holding onto a guy like Stott whose ETA is sooner. I recall DD telling Johnny Airports that he’s not eager to trade Abel but that “I didn’t draft him” so there’s that nugget of truth.

  22. I know, Romus. But, I need to have at least 1 Prospect I can dream on, and Abel is it for me! It may not be prudent, or rational, and I cannot argue with your logic, but it is too soon to pin my hopes on Painter. Crazy on my part, probably, but I want to keep Abel.

  23. Bohm can’t play LF or 1B in the majors for a good team unless (1) he quickly learns to hit 30 HRs every 600 PAs, unlike the 11 HR per 600 PAs he’s shown so far — and since he’s already 25, I’m not too optimistic that will happen, or (2) he consistently hits over .300 with lots of doubles.

    Maybe . . . it could happen . . . I’d guess there’s about a 20% chance one of those two things happens. So far he has a .111 ISO in his career. Just by way of comparison, Hoskins’ career ISO is .261; McCutchen’s is .195; Burrell’s was .219, etc., etc.

    If you’re wondering what kind of hitter has an ISO of .111, well, Cesar Hernandez’s career ISO is .114. Roger Bernadina’s was .118.

    Far more likely is his typical season for ages 26-30 is a .260 or .270 hitter, with 15-18 HR. A major-leaguer, but not a starter at a power position like LF or 1B — at least not on a playoff team.

  24. My browser hates “word”. Anyways. Everyone is on the table this off-season minus Harper, wheeler, and Nola. Everyone else is available to improve this team after next years trade
    Deadline. The following off-season. Is the finishing touches for DD. By then Bohm, Abel, Moniak, efflin, medina, Marchand, stott or painter – I’d expect to be gone. They will be trades similar to the Howard deal. Get 1 to 2 mlb pieces back, with a prospect to restock. Trade later. Then it’s time to spend in FA.

    1. Bohm, Eflin and Abel – I doubt very much they’re traded for different but obvious reasons. The others could be though.

  25. Assuming for sake of argument that DD will go blockbuster, and his limitations with which he has to deal – meaning he likely won’t be able to make more than one or two major trades – I would make this proposal to Ben Cherington of the Pirates:

    To the Phillies – CF Bryan Reynolds (age 26) and lefty reliever Chasen Shreve (31)

    To the Pirates – 3b/1b Alec Bohm, RHP Mick Abel, C Rafael Marchan, and OF Yhoswar Garcia

      1. You can disagree with people but you need to make it civil. We’re here to exchange ideas and to learn. You can doubt the moves but keep personal shots out of it.

  26. Rocky, come on. When mark referenced Steve Martin, he was making a joke, no name calling at all. No need to retort with that. We don’t always agree, but everyone’s opinion is respected.

  27. Regarding Bohm, there are long lists of players with sophomore slumps who rebounded for a very good career. Let’s not jump off the Bohm wagon too fast. He’s not getting traded. He has hit every year of his life until this one. Odds are he’ll bounce back. Every team would like to take a chance on him because of that but we’ll keep him.

    1. Few, if any, have questioned his hitting…….it is his fielding and defensive work that is in question.
      And where does he play in the field that does not prove a negative factor for the team.
      Surely the third base experiment has to be reconsidered…. a negative 12 DRS is pretty bad.

      1. Romus, I think Bohm merits a shot at 1b. Doubtful he becomes Keith Hernandez but over time, maybe his lanky limbs will work better than we expect. Don’t envision him in LF. DH seems a bit off profile for a kid his age….so I don’t know what baseball people across MLB think of his future. Most importantly, what does Dombrowski think? I wouldn’t ask Steve Martin.

      2. I believe you are right, Romus, it is his defense that is in question. I think he is passable at 1b. I believe he is not a 3rd basemen, and if Mike Schmidt told me he’ll be ok there, I WOULD NOT BELIEVE IT! Would he be able to play LF, I think it is possible, others whom they needed to find a position for have settled in there. Worth a shot for sure.

        Some believe that 1B and LF have to be power hitters, I don’t. Many a good team has had avg. mlb players field those positions with good team results. Bohm has had a lousy year, he will be better than this. One of his weaknesses, IMO is his inability to turn on a ball. If you look at his pattern for base hits, it is predominately on the right side of the diamond. I think that needs to be corrected.

        Having said all that, the only players I would protect if I were DD would be Harper and Wheeler. Other than them when the GM’s come courting, it would be what do you have in mind?

        1. It really is a shame that Bohm cannot be even an average defender at third.
          I mean….from all reports he has put in more than enough work, effort and the time …..but maybe it is his body/build make-up preventing him from being a complete third baseman.

    2. Since he became a pro, Bohm has only hit for power in his partial season at Reading (14 HR in 270 PAs). His other minor league numbers did not display HR power — 7 HR in 359 PAs. And in the majors he has 11 HR in 587 PAs.

      He very well might develop that HR power. But other than a half-season in Reading, he hasn’t shown it as a pro. And if we’re talking about 1B or DH, he’s gonna need it.

  28. Since it’s obvious the Phillies aren’t going to do a full rebuild, how about the following changes in 2022 as the 1st stage in turning over the roster.

    Sign Kris Bryant for somewhere in the 5-$115 range with the idea that he becomes the primary 3b who will also play LF as part of a platoon vs. lefty starters. Some version of Moniak/Haseley/Janikowski become the left-handed version of that platoon depending on who wins the job with the other becoming the 4th OF.

    That makes Bohm the primary DH (expect universal DH in 2022) who plays 3b against those left-handers.

    Sign Starlin Marte to play CF. does 3-$45 get that done with a 4th year option? Something similar to the McCutchen contract.

    Sign a cheap RH middle IF who plays plus defense and that becomes a pure platoon at shortstop with Didi. Better if Didi was gone but he has zero value so only other option in to DFA and eat the full $14.5M. Instead hope that Didi plays better in 2022 as part of a platoon facing only RH pitchers or at least he’s an expensive LH power bat off the bench.

    Line-up then becomes
    CF-Marte – RH
    2b-Segura – RH
    RF-Harper-LF
    3b/LF – Bryant-RH
    1b- Hoskins – RH
    c-Realmuto-RH
    SS-Didi/IF -LH/RH
    DH/3b-Bohm – RH
    LF-Haseley/Moniak/Janikowski – LH

    If Stott shows he is ready at some point in 2022, then he can come up and play ss. In 2023 both Segura and Didi contracts are gone and Stott becomes full-time 2b since most expect he’s not a long-term SS.

    Rotation starts as:
    Wheeler
    Nola
    Gibson
    Suarez
    Falter (until Eflin is healthy)

    Bullpen is mostly made up of guys already in the organization
    Hammer
    Brogdon
    Seranthony
    Coonrod
    Romero (at some point)

    Biggest work from DD is finding a viable closer in the trade market. Remainder of the pen is made up from cheap minor league contracts for veterans who they hope have bounce-back seasons. The plan in 2021 with guys like Moore, Anderson, Kintzler, etc. wasn’t bad, just picked the wrong players.

    Making these moves will put them over the tax threshold (payroll in the $215-$220 million range) assuming something like it still exists in 2022 with the new CBA. DD’s job is convincing ownership of the need to go over in 2022 with the idea that they will drop back under in 2023 with expiring contracts and hopefully some starting pitching help coming from the system.

    Defense is still not great but it does get better with upgrade at 3b, Cf, and LF and part-time at SS.

  29. JT out of the lineup again. It’s time to start thinking out of the box, and here’s mine: 3rd base. He is so athletic, way more so than other catchers who have spent time there.

  30. Vinny released. A key in the famous Matt Klentak Ken Giles deal. Way too many opportunities, and I am sure we could have gotten a lottery ticket for him, but zilch. Just another reminder that the regime was a total failure, and I can’t help myself from being aggravated. I know it is beating a dead horse, but he’s still getting paid, so I can still gripe.

  31. I think that we should all prepare ourselves mentally for DD emptying the farm this off-season. I am not saying that’s what I would do. But I think that is what he is going to do. I think that he goes all in. I think his logic is simple. He has Wheeler for 3 more years, JTR for 4 and the next 4 are Harper’s prime. The time to go for it is now.

    We have an excellent starting rotation. Trading Nola is an illogical, emotional decision. We need to completely rebuild our Pen. And need to remake the left side of the infield and at least 1 OF position but probably 2.

    I think that he goes after Bryant in FA to play third. That also makes Harper happy. I think he tries to re-sign Freddy to play short, as a platoon w Didi. I think that he Doesn’t re-sign Cutch. I would bet money that he has zero expectations from Moniak or Haseley beyond AAAA guys. I think he trades prospects and Bohm for a young OF. Maybe Brian Reynolds as mentioned above. Or maybe a Bohm plus Rojas for Kiermaier package. I think that he trades several other good prospects for RPs. Trades that will upset many posters here. I think that he also signs a veteran OF in FA. I can also see them going after Laureano as Hinkie has mentioned. I think DD keeps Rhys as either a 1B or DH. He is cheap and can hit. I also don’t think Rhys has much trade value.

    1. Agree. Dombrowski looks to turn the page on the this past decade of playoff-less baseball in the off season. Half the starting lineup, depth to the roster, legitimate closer, perhaps another SP. Again, I would understand a rebuild, but that’s not how DD rolls.

    2. The one prospect with a very high value…Abel.
      Though he will turn 21 next summer with limited pro innings under his belt…his potential is enormous and including him in a package could bring a fairly decent return.
      I think Dave D. may think along those lines when he begins his trading.

      1. I agree. I don’t think there is anyone who is untouchable. I think he would trade Abel but it has to be for a stud. Like for example if Colorado was willing to trade McMahon. Or here is a crazy package: Rhys, Bohm and Abel for Matt Chapman.

  32. Agree on DD trading to win. That is what I said in the post in which I said we need to accept what DD will do, not what we want or wish him to do.

    As for Bohm, I like the kid but I don’t see his value at any power position like 1B or LF.

    His problem isn’t just his defense. If it was, we could live with him at 1B, just like the 1960 Pirates thrived with Dick “Dr Strange Glove” Stuart at 1B.

    The problem is that he’s the world’s biggest singles hitter and, while we wish and we want him to grow into power, the fact is he’s 25 years old and perhaps past when maturing into power.

    1. The raw power is there but his swing just doesn’t generate a lot of loft. It was a concern when he was drafted and in the minors that probably got overlooked once he had a big year at Reading. It seemed like he’d be okay after his rookie year but at this point they’ll probably try to adjust his swing to produce more fly balls.

      Ironic considering the last regime gets killed for “messing with” players’ swings looking for fly balls and home runs.

  33. The real Kyle Gibson has stood up. It’s easy to pitch in Texas with no pressure but not in Philly in what was a pennant race. He has pretty much stunk it up his last half dozen starts. As has Galvis who is just a shell of what he was even defensively.

  34. Unless there’s a mandate from Middleton to win, I don’t think the Phillies will sell the farm to get the players they require to win. Why? Then Dombrowski would have shipped Abel out before the trade deadline. The Phillies have too many issues on offense: LF, 3B, SS have been black holes. CF and 1B have barely been starter level. The Phillies are not going to plug all these holes in the offseason, as much as some people believe they will.

    The Phillies farm system is already bad enough, and nobody is untouchable? All for the Phillies to have a 2-3 year window to win? If the Phillies made the wrong move signing Harper, Wheeler, JT because they thought they were ready, selling the farm is making another bad move on top of it.

    I would rather trade Wheeler/Nola to restock the system and wait for the next core to arrive which would likely be led by Stott/Garcia/Rojas/Abel/Painter. Yes, it’s not a given that any of these players will become elite but I would rather follow this course of action then sell the farm. Selling out to improve your chances for this team? No matter what crazy moves the Phillies make, they won’t be better than the loaded 2009-2011 teams and they didn’t win.

    1. I think they all or most will be just about all gone by the deadline next year. No one is safe in my opinion ,dd has to go for it they , will try before going back into a traditional rebuild. He either succeeds or fails. Will see what happens, ut Middleton is signing off on it. Personally I think he will blend spending big on FA – Bryant comes to mind, and making trades like the Howard deal. DD will they trade to those smaller pieces in his deadline deals with what’s left of our bigger desirable prospects. I don’t see it any pther way. It’s becoming very clear which way the Phillies will go.

    2. “I don’t think the Phillies will sell the farm to get the players they require to win. Why? Then Dombrowski would have shipped Abel out before the trade deadline.”
      << disagree. I think roster overhauls happen in the off-season never at the deadline. The deadline is for adding a piece or two. Agree we have many holes to fill. And I think DD does too. Could never get it all done at the deadline. He wanted to keep his powder dry for the makeover this off-season. It’s coming. DD definitely has a win now mandate.

      1. Plus the Phillies would have likely had to go over the threshold this year if Abel would have gotten a serious major league upgrade. Why not wait until a clean financial slate begins this winter.

      2. I also think Dombrowski needed to gauge the value his players had on the market to shape that remake.

        I think 100% Abel is available in the right deal. It’s just a shame that the CBA is going to derail a good part of the offseason.

      3. I meant that if DD wanted to overhaul the team, it would have started with trading Abel at the deadline. I didn’t mean that they were going to overhaul at the deadline.

        I don’t doubt that DD has a win now mandate. But the Phillies are missing too many pieces. I think DD is smart enough to realize that. If he goes all in and the Phillies still crash and burn, I don’t think DD wants part of his legacy to be leaving the Phillies to be a hot mess. I don’t think his ego will allow him to do that.

        1. I understood what you meant, and I don’t agree with it. I think that DD is saving Abel for an overhaul and that will start in the off-season, not at the deadline.

  35. I’m sure this has been touched on and I know I have said it before but can someone give me a scenario where staying course and NOT blowing up the roster will actually produce a better outcome than the last 4 years. I just don’t see it and don’t know how you don’t go into full rebuild mode.

    1. Eric D:
      Merriam -Webster Dictionary has a a couple definitions of,
      …insanity
      1…dated : a severely disordered state of the mind usually occurring as a specific disorder
      2…law : unsoundness of mind or lack of the ability to understand that prevents one from having the mental capacity required by law to enter into a particular relationship, status, or transaction or that releases one from criminal or civil responsibility

      Probably number 2 comes the closest to compliance.
      So Dave D may very well try to break the mold.

    2. I don’t understand why anyone is rooting for a total rebuild. The team has gotten wrecked by integral regression, injuries, and declining veterans. The further we get from the Matt Klentak and Andy MacPhail experience the better our team will look. The key is to make disciplined trades and hope DD can self scout as he has in the past.

      Andrew McCutchen is making $20 million this year… for luxury tax purposes $16million. You mean to tell me they can’t find an upgrade over his .220/.333/.435 line for that money?

      Odubel made $10million, I think between the trade market and FA they can find a more consistent player for that price.’

      They spent $19 million on Bradley, Kintzler, Moore, Anderson, and VV this year roughly. I’m 100% sure they can improve the back end of the pen and sign a better swingman type starter for that. If they non-tender Eflin that number goes up.

      A shake up? I’m all for. The only player I think is tradeable at this time is Segura. Harper has a no trade clause, JT’s value is down, Nola’s value is down, and Wheeler I don’t think you’ll get a return that justifies trading. Maybe you trade or non-tender Hoskins but I don’t think he has any value and then you’re going to have to replace him with a more expensive player anyway. Gregorious has no value and to get rid of his salary you’re taking on another bad deal OR you’re attaching an asset.

      1. If Harper is untradeable because of his no-trade clause, why isn’t Segura untradeable because of his?

        From Cot’s Baseball Contracts

        Jean Segura ss
        5 years/$70M (2018-22), plus 2023 option

        5 years/$70M (2018-22), plus 2023 club option
        signed extension with Seattle 6/7/17
        $3M signing bonus
        18:$9M, 19:$14.25M, 20:$14.25M, 21:$14.25M, 22:$14.25M, 23:$17M club option ($1M buyout)
        full no-trade protection
        assignment bonus: $1M with trade
        acquired by Philadelphia in trade from Seattle 12/3/18

        Note that if Segura agrees to a trade, there is a contractual cost attached in addition to any other monetary inducement to get him to waive his no-trade. Like maybe picking up his option year.

        1. If Harper is willing to leave he’s going to dictate the exact situation he goes to and we’re not going to get anything back for him (see Giancarlo Stanton). There’s no reason to even try to move him and open that can of worms because it’ll get ugly quick.

      2. So you believe they should do exactly what they did last off season, the off season before and the off season before? That worked real well. I honestly think there’s ZERO argument for a retool, it’s gonna amount to the same thing we’ve seen. We don’t have assets in the minors to trade, we don’t really have assets on the big club to trade, I could go on. Oh and Dave D first off season was a disaster, point to the positive moves he made . . . rebuild or continue to watch .500 frustrating baseball

        1. Yes because we just witnessed a failed rebuild and I don’t think they’re necessary to build a good team. I think tanking benefits no one but the owner. I think a smart GM can build a much better team with the resources available to him. I think last offseason DD was relying on a lot of second hand information from an inept front office and has now had a full year to learn the organization and the assets with which he has.

          Take a look at the 2016 draft. We took Mickey Moniak. At the time the top players were considered to be Senzel, Puk, Ray, and Kyle Lewis from what I remember.

          The Minnesota Twins took Alex Kirilloff with the 15th pick (using the 15th pick as a barometer). There are plenty good players taken after him in the first round as well:

          RHP Justin Dunn (19 Overall), INF Gavin Lux (20 Overall), LHP Eric Lauer (25 Overall), Dylan Carlson (33 Overall).

          All five players I’d rather have than Mickey right now. You don’t need to draft at the top of the draft to have success you need to identify talent well and develop that talent.

          You don’t need to build a super team to contend.

          1. If I recall at the time. Mickey Moniak was pretty heavily scouted by Pat Gillick, which most of us would think was a good thing, Hopefully he will still have a Major League career, but it is not coming very easily for him.

            1. Yeah and Charlie Manuel really liked him as well. I can’t say I was disappointed with Mickey Moniak at the time but it just hasn’t worked out.

            2. In all fairness ..that draft class of first rounders have not yet set the world on fire.

              https://www.baseball-reference.com/draft/?draft_round=1&year_ID=2016&draft_type=junreg&query_type=year_round

              Dodgers’ selections ‘ in Lux (20th pick) and Will Smith (32nd) did exceptional.
              Braves’ Ian Anderson was a good selection.
              And Cardinals at 33 and 34….Carlson and Hudson..were good picks.
              Some college pitchers have moved on from their drafting teams…Quantrill and Lauer and prospered with other teams..

  36. Sorry, I didn’t read any of the posts above, basically the whole discussion is about rebuild or retool. I agree Romus, to “retool” would be insanity.

  37. Rhys Hoskins is a starter-level first baseman (2.1 WAR this year in about 2/3 of a season; 1.0 WAR last year in short year), or DH. And he’s not very expensive.

    DFA-ing him would be sheer lunacy.

    1. Insane. The Rhys Hoskins dislike here never ceases to amaze me. If he had stayed healthy, the season could have gone so much differently. He’s a cheap guy who gets on base, hits homers and drives in runs. Why would you want to dump him? It’s insane.

    2. Agreed. He’s a fine, affordable complimentary piece and it would be shuffling deck chairs just to shuffle them. He’s just miscast as a clean up hitter on this team same with Realmunto. In a good, deep line up Hoskins is probably your 5th hitter and Realmunto is 6th or 7th depending on the type of DH we’re carrying.

  38. I could see the Phils adding Bryant or Correa — say, $23-$25 million AAV, that would largely be offset by the savings from Cutch and Matt Moore (almost $20 million from those two). If DD can convince Middleton to exceed the luxury tax for a year, then they can add them both and have a payroll around $225 million next year.

    A few years ago, I said if the Phillies wanted to win they should have added both Machado and Harper, because their pathetic drafting and player development wasn’t producing enough home-grown talent. And this year Machado at 3B has been worth about 6 wins more than Bohm . . . which would put the Phils in first this year.

    I get Middleton not wanting to exceed the luxury tax. He has three choices: (1) exceed the luxury tax; (2) fix scouting & player development; or (3) not win. Over the last ten years, he has chosen no. 3.

    1. First, Correia is going to get more than $25M per year, especially when Lindor got $34M per year. And signing Bryant or Correia will push the Phillies into paying tax for multiple years, not just 1 year. There’s no way that the Phillies will pay 4 players almost $100M per year and not pay tax.

      And the savings you get from Cutch and Moore will be offset by the bumps in salaries from Wheeler/JT/Didi (unfortunately) and the arbitration raises for Hoskins and Eflin.

      1. It’s going to be tough, but I think they find a way. They will go over imo., which is a major part of the answer. This is the 1st time, they’ll have a few years to figure it out. If not, they sell everything off in a full rebuild. There are so many ways they can go, shuffle players around, I’m not even going to try and guess. I’m just going to let it unfold. I do think it will be nuts, and will likely lose out on FA to other teams. I think the angels gotta go
        Big to take advantage of Trout & O. They basically have Ruth 1 & 2 on their team.

  39. I think the direction is clear, much clearer than before the deadlines. I believe DD has the permission from Middleton to empty the farm, and spend to the moon. He just has to decide when. Phase 1 was evaluating (everything up to this point) Phase 2 starts this off-season. Phase 3 is the trade deadline – which will be the new look Phillies. It either works or it doesn’t. Either way the Phillies are out of the dreaded in between stage.
    That said to me, everyone is available in the right deal. Harper & Wheeler are just unlikely. Wheeler possibly but has to be a super deal, that matches up with other trades & FA signings.

    So prepare yourself, the cupboard is about to be emptied. Let’s hope the pieces they trade for & sign, mix well and actually perform to expected levels. The entire division will be stronger next year.

    I’m hoping for Verlamder, Bryant, & Story and Buxton. Hey we are going all out, let me dream!

    1. I’m tracking with you, although my additions would be EITHER Bryant (3b) OR Story (ss) as FAs, perhaps Verlander on a rich 1yr deal with bumps, then trade for CF (Reynolds!?!) and a closer (Hader?) which will deplete much of the upper crust of the farm.

      1. I’ll take that. I’m weary of Bryant, but I think Harper gets him here because they are best friends. Either that or I see him going to LAA. The trades will be the interesting part. I think that is where DD will shine the most. Most of all the previous GMs have been able to pickup Good FA signings, it’s the trades that are the elusive part … well good to great trades for the Phillies. The Howard deal seems pretty good right now, and I imagine that is what the off-season will look like. Making a big trade that involves our upper to top tier prospects (but not all of them) while getting a Crouse type prospect back. So when the deadline comes, you still have some bullets left.

  40. I think we often forget the reason we are all here which is for the prospects. We’ve grown pretty weary over the last decade in that regard.

    Transitioning from Wade to Gillick to Amaro to Klentak and now DD.

    Sure the end game is that our prospects become MLB Phillies players and help us to witness more winning baseball and if we’re lucky another title. But to that end where is the joy? I’ve found none. Not in the big club and not in the system.

    I’ve no idea where JM’s head is. What I do know is that we’re in this sinking boat together. Yeah he could mandate DD slap some flex seal on the holes and try to get us to port but I think we all know that is short sighted.

    The engine that runs the boat is leaking oil and fast.

    1. For real … flexseal can fix anything! I bet it could fix the Phillies 😂. It id the real deal, if you need a temporary or semi temporary home repair …. Flexseal it, that crap is the new duck tape of the modern era. Love that crap

      1. Flexseal is great on a leaking roof. But getting a new roof is needed. DD needs to trade for talent, the system needs an infusion of talent. Keep Harper, Ranger and JT.

        .

  41. I also cannot (personally) expend any more energy on the sins and failures of the past regimes to build a legit farm system.

    1. I am with you on that DMAR, that is water over the dam. To mention it at all is to only give one a self justification for their current position.

    2. Yes, it’s time to move on from licking the wounds we’ve all incurred for 10 years now. A legitimate baseball man is in charge – and no, that guarantees nary a thing – but with his motus operandi we’ll know soon enough if it’s been worth the wait. No playoffs by ’23 and I’m sure he’ll be moving on. The despair of another disappointing season should be unapologetically followed by the hope of the hot stove league. It’s what we do around here. Remember, we’re Phillies fans. If you haven’t caught on by now, when will you? Good post, DMAR.

  42. JT at 1b tonight….Phillies reportedly to lighten his load behind the plate. As someone mentioned yesterday, I can also see them mulling the possibility of him moving around….3b, 1b, c, DH next year…earlier this year I recall rumblings of 2b down the road. If he can stay healthy enough, he’s got the athleticism and mobility to play the field…and of course the arm to play the hot corner. We can shoot down some ideas thrown around here, but under the circumstances, outside the box may be the way to think.

    1. I’m all for JT changing positions. I’ve seen him now what 3 seasons and I see good but not great.

      You know one of the most underrated catchers in baseball is Sal Perez. He just blasted his 43rd HR at a cost of $14.5 million. Now he does have an $80 mil extension that kicks in for 22 which will put his AAV at $20 mil thru his age 35 season

      and a club option at just $13.5 million for his age 36 season. That’s value…

      1. Two, of maybe 3 or 4 others, Phillies in the system with value…JTR and Mick Abel.
        Think Cashman would like to have JTR ilo of Sanchez behind the plate?

          1. Maybe, one of their top minor league pitchers, Luis Gil or perhaps Deivi Garcia…..add maybe also OFer Clint Frazier if he can get healthy again, and catcher Austin Wells or ss Peraza.
            Cashman already said in the past, he will not give up Jasson Dominguez or Anthony Volpe

  43. JTR was the best catcher in the game when he signed for 23M per season for 5 years. Do the Phillies really want to be paying him that much to play 2B? If their payroll goes to 225-230M next year, they’ll be a 225M team in third or fourth place team.

  44. So…I count 44 players currently under the 40 man roster protection, including 4 on the IL. My plan for the off season would be to:

    KEEP (or re-sign)…
    Alvarado – yes he’s a project but what a lefty arm!
    Brogdon – shades of Ryan Madsen.
    Coonrod – solid pen piece.
    Dominguez – still gotta find out about him…
    Falter – ditto.
    Gibson – even if only a reliable innings eating #4.
    Hammer – could find his niche as a big leaguer.
    Morales – too young to give up on, and no trade value.
    Romero – at least he won’t clog up a 40 spot soon.
    Sanchez – if he wasn’t a LHP, I’d DFA him.
    Suarez – bright future, SP or pen, and a lefty!
    Wheeler – a known commodity who we’re not moving.
    Realmuto – question is how he’s deployed from here.
    Gregorius – unfortunate situation but bench option.
    Segura – productive supporting player we can’t trade.
    Torreyes – he probably goes if Joe goes. We’ll see…
    Harper – this generation’s ‘big piece’, offensively.
    Jankowski – no trade value so keep him around.
    Miller – try to sign him on the cheap and on the bench.
    Moniak – stick with him ’til we find out what & when.
    Vierling – could become a nice utility player.

    MOVE, meaning trade (T) or DFA/release (x)…
    Bedrossian x
    Jones x
    Medina T
    Phillips x
    Rosso x
    Knapp x
    Marchan T
    Maton T
    Williams x
    Haseley T or DFA
    Quinn x

    TRADE, but only if for a very good return…
    Bohm – mainly due to his lack of power/position.
    Hoskins – based on rumblings but at what value?
    Eflin – perhaps a Garrett Richards case?
    Nola – very unlikely but with DD who knows?

    FREE AGENTS sayonara…
    McCutchen – best wishes unless he accepts a serious discount.
    Bradley – spend his money elsewhere.
    Neris – simply time to move on at his salary.
    Moore – no moore, thanks.
    Kennedy – ditto Bradley.
    Joyce – filler at this stage of his career.
    Galvis – the old luster has rusted, but maybe a minor league deal?

    In my projection, that leaves 21-25 players remaining on the 40man roster, so DD would have 15-19 spots to fill.

      1. Aw, Romus…I never hear you say that to Hinkie😶…nevermind that his research is much more thorough than mine😔.

    1. Well done. I will add the following
      We have $140M in committed salary cost next year. We are going into arbitration with Rhys, Eflin, Seranthony, Alvarado, and perhaps Janakowski. This will add about another $30M.That leaves us about $30M to fill those 15-19 spots. That is not much if you want to find a stud in FA. Perhaps a trade of Nola is not to far fetched.

  45. wow, Padres now with Arrietta and Vinny in the rotation. it’s as if the contenders for wildcard spot #2 are actively trying to lose.

  46. If you ever need a definition of winning ugly, this is it………..Kennedy gets the win!😂😅😅🤣

  47. In his last 2 games Suarez should have 2 victories. Bullpen imploding like the beginning of the year.

        1. DMAR…..it is misleading, especially when they also use the term ‘hold’.
          An 8th inning lead surrender, is what they refer to as a blown hold from what I think.

      1. Agreed. It’s misleading on how many games could be turned into wins if not for a blown save/defensive error. I’m guess it’s not 32? I bet it’s closer to 20. Even still. If this team could’ve gone 15-5 in those games, they’d be in the drivers seat, with all the holes this teams has

    1. The pitcher that Ranger has become is amazing and gives one hope as a Phillies fan. I’m not sure that he every made a top 10 ranking here.

  48. I just want the Phillies to know, I am available to pitch, at a reduced rate than their current closer or even bullpen mates. I haven’t pitched in 15+ years, but I’m sure i can do just as bad, but save JM a lot of my. Give me a holla at 215-555-55…55

  49. Tac – John Fogerty wrote/sang, “Put me in coach. I’m ready to play”. So suit up, young man. You are now on the 28 man roster and penciled in for the late innings tonight.

    1. I’ve never played before more than a hundred spectators myself, but I have to think that for so many players, playing before increasing thousands from level to level has to be an adjustment which not everyone confidently embraces, unlike a guy like a teenage Bryce Harper.

      1. Was listening to someone the other night I forget who it was but he was saying many minor league pitchers don’t realize until they get to the big leagues how thin the margin for error is.

        They can leave 8-9 FBs over the plate and not get hurt.

        I mean yeah we all realize that and it seems so easy but the good ones get away with a lot in the MiLB because well the talent they face just isn’t the same.

        The other thing I read (here I think) is the 0-2 pitches our guys seem to make are mind blowingly bad or too good. Was it Coonrod the other night that gave up a HR on an 0-2 pitch that was basically a hanger in the middle of the plate.

        1. Last night it was Alvarez’ turn….0-2
          JTR says it is execution.
          Pitchers are missing the spot.
          I say…hi-heat, no breaking stuff.

  50. I read somewhere that writing on the wall for Joe to come back in ’22. I am torn.

    I really think Dusty W needs a shot

    giving this org one more offseason to keep me around as a fan. From reading here, seems like there’s a lot of to be excited about once DD really starts to jump in and make his mark.

  51. However these last 17 games turn out, there’s some consolation to be able to cheer on Bryce Harper toward an MVP bid. Batting .309 with an OPS of 1.039 at this moment, he’s on pace to have the highest WAR for a Phillies position player since Chase Utley in ’09. That’s something to keep track of, even if we can’t endure the physical pain from watching the rest of the team, even winning like last night, in spite of themselves.

    1. I would say that the results of those games will go a long way towards Harper’s chances of an MVP bid.

      Phillies make the playoffs and he’s probably 1st/2nd. They don’t and he ends up finishing 4th/5th in the voting.

  52. There is no way an Adonis Medina start could be any worse than these BP games. Sorry … Joe Girardi has got have learned by now this group of relievers is not capable of successfully navigating nine innings. Start Medina. You’ve got nothing to lose. You may even find out he can maybe help you in 2022.

  53. Man, …………. this is ugly stuff! It is like trying to decide which of the witches in MacBeth are the ugliest. Cubs or Phillies, I almost can’t stand to watch this anymore.

    They keep trotting these reliever’s out there every night, pathetic. I don’t think Joe is back, but I don’t blame him for the abysmal talent that we have to watch.

    1. Skeet….according to the old formula…$8M/1WAR…yes.

      bWAr has him at 2, …equating to a $16M valued performance.
      fWAR has him at 1.1, …value at $12M.

      His contract is at $10.4M for this season and club opt. @ $11.5M in 2022

      1. Thanks, I’ve thought his performance has been steady this year. Not spectacular, but solid for a guy who was “persona non grata” coming out of spring training.

      2. Yeah at this point I am picking up his option. With Cutch gone he will be a needed cheap piece…

        Perhaps even become tradeable at some point

        1. DMAR…I believe the Phillies have until five days after the last WS game to decide to exercise the club option or release him.
          Same with Cutch and his $15M option….who I think they let go.
          If they decide to bring back Doobie….then my guess Dave D may move either Haseley or Moniak in an off-season trade.
          There appears to be many reserve OFers on the team….Vierling, Janko, Luke Williams….and then there is also Roman.

          1. If DD signs Kris Bryant, I would consider keeping Doobie around to play LF, but at a lower salary. But that still leaves CF to be addressed.

            1. Odubel gives you options. If you have an 890 OPS player or better in LF that is right handed Odubel can spell him from time to time or his 730-785 OPS works in CF if you add 890+ OPS to SS or 3B

              If you you just look at OPS by position and forget the names and salaries for a brief minute you can see where you are deficient

              C 796
              1B-864
              2B-800
              SS-650
              3B-644
              LF-768
              CF-735
              RF-1.055

              You need to convert those 6’s to 7’s and the 7’s to 8’s or better IMO

            2. mark8:29….you might as well to forget about Bryant…all indications are he is happy with SF and Farhan Zaidi and Scott Harris plan on making him an offer he cannot refuse. They have three FA priorities ……Guasman, Bryant and Belt.

            3. DMAR…all players want that slash…300/.400/.500…with a .880 or more OPS….not sure you can buy your way in getting those results.
              Dave D may need to make some adept trades.

        2. not sure $11.5 million qualifies him as a cheap piece. I would much rather they take his $11.5 million and add a little more to it to get a more consistent bat for the OF.

          His production hasn’t been terrible but he still has an OPS+ under 100 which makes him below league average.

          If they can decline his option, pay the $2.5m buyout and then get him back for something around a $5m AAV deal then he becomes a cheap(er) piece that can be used as part of an OF platoon/rotation where he sits against LHP.

          1. I hear you 3UP and sure that’s possible but look at someone like Eddie Rosario who is comparable offensively to Odubel. He got a 1 year deal at $8 million and he’s limited defensively to LF

            I won’t lose any sleep if they don’t pick up his option just saying I wouldn’t fret if they did either. He’s a known commodity with a tad of upside since this was his first full season back since 2019.

            1. If Bryant goes off the FA board and stays in SF as Romus suggests, then DD is definitely targeting CF via trade (Reynolds) or free agency (Marte). Then how about inviting Cutch and Doobie back as a platoon LF on severely smaller contracts…buy out Doobie and Cutch and offer them $6M and $8M respectively.

              Also, can we really count on Didi as any more than an expensive bench player due to his health and underperformance. So, DD will almost certainly HAVE to acquire a SS, even if Didi moves to 3b.

  54. It’s about time tge offense won a game which they sure did last night. Harper is having a great season, and Adonis Medina looked good in his 2 innings. SSS, but Matt Vierling has looked like a pretty good hitter. I have given up on them so often, but keep watching. Maybe these last 2 Ws, which could easily have been losses, sparks another winning streak?

  55. as exciting as it is that we have a very good pitching prospect in the Dominican league…it is also depressing that we don’t have any other great pitching prospect who has performed well enough at a real minor league level to top his 11 starts. Johnny Almaraz was a disaster!

    1. Agreed. Between injuries and below par performances, the development of pitching in the organization has been horrible.

      Can’t follow the buy the bats and develop the arms strategy if you can’t develop the arms.

      1. A Fans’ View listed some stats for pitchers in the system:

        K’s Per Nine – Starters : ( at least 58 IP ) ( includes all piggyback pitchers )
        Cristian Hernandez – CW/FCL – 11.74 – 66 2/3 IP
        Francisco Morales – REA – 11.65 – 78 IP
        Christopher Sanchez – LHV – 11.03 – 63 2/3 IP
        Dominic Pipkin – JS – 9.93 – 58 IP
        Jhordany Mezquita – JS/REA – 9.89 – 67 1/3 IP

        K’s Per Nine – Relievers : ( at least 35 IP )
        Zach Warren – REA/LHV – 14.33 – 43 1/3 IP
        Aneurys Zabala – JS/CW – 13.39 – 41 2/3 IP
        Kyle Dohy – LHV/REA – 13.38 – 39 IP
        Blake Brown – JS – 13.05 – 40 IP
        Jakob Hernandez – 12.02 – 45 2/3 IP

        ….some of these guys may turn out to be MLB players.

    2. v1….I am still not giving up on Morales, or Erik Miller…then there are guys like Vargas, Castillo, Ortega, Erubiel Armenta, Christian Hernandez who still can all reach their potential….nothing is linear in a minor leaguers life of development..
      We also have some relievers to dream on.

    3. Perhaps the greatest showing of the incompetence or weakness in the organization of MacPhail and Klentak was their taking on and keeping Almaraz from the Amaro regime. A strong team would have insisted on immediately installing their own guys. What a disaster – 5 years blown with virtually nothing to show from development and trades. A “what not to do” lesson in running a pro baseball franchise. Seriously.

      1. They made AMARO LOOK GOOD. I won’t defen asked, as that’s a lightning rod for Phillies phans, but is it safe to say Amaro did better than klentak yet? Which is a really crappy thing to be true!

        1. I was about to rank out GMs going back to the Pope. But then it occurred to me that the problem with the Phillies GMs was not so much their level of (in)competence, but more to do with the front office culture of hiring either from within and/or from the good ol’ boy network (ala MacPhail-Klentak) when a better candidate (BLOOM!) was available. They made 2 exceptions in hiring experienced and successful men – Gillick, which led to the ’07-’11 run; and now Dombrowski. Like Dirty Harry Callahan said, “a man’s got to know his limitations”. If only somehow John Middleton could survey the past 40 years and recognize the organization’s inherent shortfalls…oh, wait…maybe he finally has.

  56. Per Romus – let’s not forget Ranger Suarez was a middle of the road prospect at best. I dare say he is a whole lot more now.

  57. Well I’m just going to try and enjoy the seasons Harper and Wheeler are having, two great free agent signings! Harper may win batting title as well as top OPS.

    1. It’s funny you say that.

      I am really taking myself back to the Curt Schilling days when I knew the team was horrible but I just watched to see him pitch. It was something to behold.

      Harper and Wheeler are amazing. Truly. And if I were DD, I would be looking to find creative ways to support them. This requires a master GM. The Giants reconstructed their team on the fly, why can’t we do the same?

      Anyway, I’ll enjoy the Bryce and Zack show for now (I have to go back to Ryan Howard in 2006 to find any Phillie hitter dominating the way Harper has) and hope that somehow, elite GM DD will find a way to improve the team for next year so we don’t keep running into the same .500 wall over and over again.

      If he keeps executing trades as masterful as the one he did with Texas, we will be fine.

    2. Yes, and last night’s double which Harper served down the left field line was a beautiful piece of hitting. While he may begin to physically break down within the next few years – as he was banged up earlier this season – I am very encouraged by his development as an overall hitter. The power (HRs) and the eye (BBs) have been there for years now, but I see evidence of him becoming a purer hitter, spraying the ball around, both for distance and finesse. It appears he’s refining his offensive game. So encouraging. Let’s hope it’s contagious.

  58. Want to give a shout out to a former Phuture Phillie….Darin Ruf is having an excellent season at age 34 OPSing 924 and playing above average defense in a number of spots.

    Last season his 1st back from KBO he OPS’d 887…

    I always liked him but again he probably doesn’t become the player he is currently without the KBO stint

  59. Big weekend series for wildcard and division matchups.

    Figure that 85 wins is minimum needed for 2nd wildcard spot and also to win the NL East.

    Atlanta – 9-9 in last 18 games gets them to 85 wins – Play at SF this weekend
    STL – 9-8 in last 17 games gets them 85 – Play SD at home
    SD – 9-7 in last 16 games gets them 85 – At STL
    Cin – 9-6 in last 15 games gets them 85 – LAD at home
    Phi – 11-5 in last 16 games gets them 85 – at NYM
    NYM – 13-2 in last 15 games gets them 85 – PHI at home

    Phillies can basically eliminate the Mets last gasp with a sweep or at least 2-3 this weekend or can create their own last gasp by getting swept or losing 2-3..

      1. After we lost 2/3 to the Pirates I identified IMO the only 15 games that mattered. And those were games left against the Mets-Braves-Marlins. I stated we needed to go 11-4 possibly 10-5 in those games and nothing else would matter. We’d somehow steal our way into the playoffs or take the division.

        Thus far we are 4-2 in those games 9 remaining before these 3 against the Mets.

        Let’s see what kind of metal they have!

  60. Bleacher Report….What Every Teams Needs To Target off-Season:
    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2948352-1-player-each-mlb-team-should-already-be-targeting-for-2021-22-offseason-trades

    ….Philies … Ketel Marte
    “As they’ve had problems of their own in center field this year, the Phillies are yet another team that could take a look at Buxton this winter. Indeed, they talked to the Twins about the power/speed dynamo ahead of the July 30 trade deadline.But since it would be risky for the Phillies to go all-in on a rental, they ought to consider Arizona Diamondbacks star Ketel Marte instead. He’s signed through 2022 with $18 million worth of club options for 2023 and 2024. He’d also be a good fix for the Phillies’ NL-worst .693 OPS out of the leadoff spot.”

    braves…Buxton
    Mets-Donaldson
    Yankees…Matt Chapman

    1. Romus, my CF preferences are:

      1) Ketel Marte – though someone on this board insists Dbacks won’t trade him at all. If so, my next choice is…

      2) Bryan Reynolds – switch hitter with pop and excellent career slash line. I would ask for him and lefty reliever Chasen Shreve for a costly package of Bohm, Abel, Marchan and Yhoswar Garcia.

      3) Starling Marte – perhaps the best free agent CF on the upcoming market.

      After these, it’s a serious dropoff…unless somebody knows of another available upgrade.

    2. Romus, my CF preferences are:

      1) Ketel Marte – though someone on this board insists Dbacks won’t trade him at all. If so, my next choice is…

      2) Bryan Reynolds – switch hitter with pop and excellent career slash line. I would ask for him and lefty reliever Chasen Shreve for a costly package of Bohm, Abel, Marchan and Yhoswar Garcia.

      3) Starling Marte – perhaps the best free agent CF on the upcoming market.

      After these, it’s a serious dropoff…unless somebody knows of another available upgrade.

      1. Buxton….but Braves may try to get him in a trade, which will include Christian Pache going to the Twins, according to this report.

        1. I love K-Tel! The BR piece has the Dbacks in turn with interest in Bohm. If we’re in win-now mode – and we are – then how much would DD have to sweeten the pot to pry Marte away from Arizona? We can’t give them Stott if Bohm is their 1A choice based on his 2nd place ROY performance last season. Just like my B-Rey package to Pittsburgh, I would offer Abel and Marchan, but the Dbacks could very well insist on a top OF prospect like Rojas…tough call. But again, WIN NOW! And Marte is under control through ’24.

        2. How’s this for opening day ’22…

          Ketel Marte cf
          JT Realmuto c
          Bryce Harper rf
          Trevor Story ss
          Rhys Hoskins 1b
          Odubel Herrera lf
          Andrew McCutchen dh
          Didi Gregorius 3b
          Jean Segura 2b

          Zack Wheeler p

          *DH would be a loose rotation of Cutch, JTR, Hoskins and Harper in order to rest these on a regular basis, along with a bench player like Brad Miller (and against RHPs only of course). As I mentioned already, Cutch and Doobie could platoon in LF.

    1. I’d still take that job, the pay is crazy. I heard It was 300k, 15-20 years ago. I may have heard wrong, but I’m sure it’s crazy, not to mention the bennies.

  61. Harper’s 2021 salary……………………………….$28M
    Harper’s performance value this season …..$49.6M
    …………the MVP chants were loud last night.

  62. Just to touch on a few topics …

    ✳ There can be/are no untouchables if you are Dombrowski this winter. However, you only trade your top prospects for dudes under team control for multiple seasons. If things go south again in 2022, you can flip the player you just acquired, to bring back other prospects in a rebuild/retool.

    ✳ The DBacks wouldn’t even discuss Ketel Marte at the deadline. Told clubs he was not available.
    OTOH … the Pirates (who aren’t looking to trade Bryan Reynolds) at least engaged in discussions when Miami called for him. Ben Cherington asked for three of the Marlins top 10 prospects. Miami’s system is much better/deeper than the Phillies. That’s why I recently suggested Abel/Rojas/Stott for Reynolds as a realistic, possible “go for it” monster move DD could consider to compete in the Harper/JTR/Wheeler era.

    ✳ As I mentioned near the top of this thread, I feel Middleton/Dombrowski will be looking to throw money around this offseason, but they’ll look to spend big in the short term, not the long term. This means they’ll consider older FAs on short term (one or two year) deals: guys like Nelson Cruz or Justin Verlander. More likely, Dombrowski will look to take on a bad contract to help complete a trade for guys like Buxton (➡ Donaldson), Hader (➡ JBJ), Laureano or Chapman (➡ Piscotty).
    BTW … the possible exception to the big $/short term FA deal could be a closer. Dombrowski could go 4/5 years on Raisel Iglesias, or 3 years on Kenley Jansen. The Phillies POBO absolutely needs to solve this club’s back of the ‘pen problem.

    ✳ And my “under the radar” Phillies trade target this winter is Isiah Kiner-Falefa.

    1. Should have also mentioned the possibility of a big time short term offer for a younger FA who gets lost in the shuffle this winter. Something like last winter when Toronto got Marcus Semien on a 1 yr/18M contract. Maybe one of the SS’s gets left w/o a chair when the music stops. DD could offer any of Story/Baez/Correa/Seager a robust pillow deal.

      1. Hinkie:
        :”DD could offer any of Story/Baez/Correa/Seager a robust pillow deal.”…of the four I think Baez is the one who will be the last to beoffered and may eventually have to take a one year deal.
        Trying to figure out what teams would or could offer 7/8/ yr deals to Correa and Seager……there may be only a few out there…..and assume they want to go to a contending team.
        I personally would go after Story…older than them at 29….so he may agree to a 5 yr plus option contract…at a reasonable AAV……Correa i see will go after a Lindor contract.

  63. The Mets would love nothing better than putting a hurting on the Phillies and killing their chances for a post season bid. Keep an eye on Conforto. He’s been heating up of late. It is imperative that the Phils take this first game or they just might get swept. Go team!

  64. If there was one guy (excluding obvious all-star players) I could pluck from another team, and put in a Phillies uniform, it would be Brandon Nimmo. Nimmo will be activated for tonight’s game (too bad). Can you imagine him at the top of the Phils’ LU? I love his attitude. I love his ability to work a pitcher. I love the way he gets on base multiple times each night. If he was a Phillie, most of Bryce Harper’s solo bombs would have been multi run homers, and may have won this club a handful more games.

    1. Agree…..Nimmo does hustle and has the ability to get on base….taking a walk and working the pitcher….15% career and 2021 BB rate…with a career .396 OBP
      The ideal lead-off hitter.

  65. The inning turned when Wheeler hit Alonzo with the pitch. Forced him to throw a lot pitches. Fortunate to get out of it with only one run.

  66. Bottom of the 9th, 5-4 Braves, and the Braves were 1 strike away from beating the Giants. But Will Smith hangs a slider and Solano hits it out! Tie game and headed to extras.

  67. And the Giants hit a walk off sac fly in the bottom of the 11th…by Kevin Gaussman!

    The Braves announcers were really not happy…

  68. Wow, in a critical series against the Cardinals, the Padres had to start VV? Vintage VV line:
    4 innings, 4 hits, 4 earned, 0(!) walks, 2 HRs.

    1. Guru … that’s only half the story. Guess who the Padres are starting on Sunday?
      Hint: rhymes with Flake Marrieta.

      1. Haha, that’s crazy.

        The Padres have obviously had their share of starter injuries and they’re built to win now so you wonder how desperate they would be if the Phillies dangled Aaron Nola in trade talks.

        The Padres have some talented pitchers who have not worked out (Paddack, Ryan Weathers) and a very good farm system.

        Something like Abrams or Hassell, Paddack or Weathers, and their #7 prospect Joshua Mears.

  69. I’d like to say that I’m impressed with the Phillies win last night, or even most wins. But the bullpen remains a Russian roulette…with multiple chambers loaded.

    Over these final 15 games, they will need more than Harper to carry the offense. I think they will need another veteran bat to come up big, like Cutch or Didi, down this last quarter mile.

    The pitching is what it is. Wheeler and Suarez are reliable. Gibson keeps us in the game for the most part. If Nola can give us 2 quality starts…and that bullpen game? I think I’d rather forfeit than regret not being able to get those 3 and a half hours back. Anyway, this is the state of the game, I guess.

    I never knew winning could be so unsatisfying.

  70. JoeG hinted that a change may be coming instead of a BP game. What it is, exactly, is a mystery. Maybe it’s Hinkie’s Adonis Medina option? I will take any W, and Didi, who I have been on all season for less than stellar performances, made a truly outstanding Defensive play. So, kudos to him. And a clutch Sac Fly from Matt Vierling, who I happen to think can be a contributor next season, in some capacity, and it is nice to see because we have come up short so many times this season when we could have used a Sac fly, and instead stranded runners.

    1. Why Is it a Pitching prospect who continues dropping every year getting a chance to Start?
      Velo is down
      2020 MLB 0-1, 4.5 era, 4 IP
      2021 AAA 4-5, 5.05 era, 67 IP

      The Phillies have 2 Young SP that have put up the numbers, but not getting a chance

  71. Something about him I really like, Romus. He seems to be able to adequately play all over, and has contributed with the bat. We need some young guy to man one of those LF or CF spots next season, even in a platoon situation, and I think he may have a very good shot. As much as I want Middleton to approve spending over the LT, we cannot get everything from the FA market or a trade.

    1. You know, I neglected to consider Vierling as a platoon option with Odubel in LF next season. That way, DD can forego re-signing Cutch. Provided he acquires a bonafide CF, I think that would be a much better allotment of salary.

    2. With Vierling’s play these last few weeks, it’s clear that he’s ahead of Moniak, Jankowski, and obviously Luke Williams (who’s back at Lehigh). So he should come into ST with a near lock at one of the bench spots. Now whether or not he gets a shot at LF is another question, which would likely be answered if the Phillies sign somebody during the offseason.

      And you’re right, the Phillies can’t sign everybody. I would give LF to be an open competition in ST between Vierling/Moniak/Randolph. I would also consider a platoon in LF.

    3. Agree matt……Vierling, Luke Williams and Nick maton are al valuable role payers…..with options left.
      As opposed to Ronald Torreyes and Janko who have no options.
      So the three…Williams/Maton/Vierling can be rotated between CBP and LHV thru next season…..like rotation of a NFL defensive line…..they can keep their bats fresh and in rhythm by getting Abs in LHV and then come up ready to play a back-up role and hit with some freshness.
      The only downside…….Williams, Maton and Veirling all have to be on the 40 taking up precious slots….normallt infielders/outfielders have about 14/15 total slots on the 40….so a guys like Roman Quinn may be DFA/released….then there are Moniak and Haseley….and you cannot hide players on the 60 Day IL without legit medical certifiable condition sent to the league offices..

      1. The Phillies have some interesting decisions to make. They have a bunch of players in the 23-25 age range where they haven’t performed enough to be starter level, but they’re ageing out of being prospects. So should they be bench players for good or go back to Lehigh and get regular ABs?

        The players are Williams (25), Vierling (25), Moniak (23), Maton (24), Haseley (25). You could even add Cornelius Randolph (24) to this list.

        1. Yes….Phillies will have to make some decisions on these guys
          And they have to take a good look see or maybe a bit of a risk to see if they are just value role players vs everyday players that may just get exposed for their weaknesses over a period of time.
          Some guys develop later….have their day in the sun at a later time, like the Muncys, Luke Voigts, and Justin Turners of the game.

        2. Sorry, not impressed or excited with these guys. A few might become 4th outfielder types or maybe second division regulars. Hopefully one can become a first division regular but the odds don’t favor that.

      2. I don’t know that any of those guys are viable major leaguers, let alone platoon starters, but they probably don’t have a choice as they look to save money where possible. Sooner or later (really, sooner) they’re going to have to develop some talent internally even if it’s just filling out the roster margins.

        I have to say though that I’m discouraged by the fact that Maton, Marchan and Vierling have pretty bad AAA numbers. Randolph’s have declined a lot since he returned from injury and Williams’ have fallen as well. It’s getting overlooked because of SSS major league success.

  72. In the Inquirer this morning, Didi is quoted about his defense: ““I went back to my old ways of fielding,” Gregorius said earlier this week to explain his improved defense. “Not what they wanted me to do in the beginning. I think that’s what changed.””

    I’d love to hear this fleshed out in more detail. They screw with players’ gloves as well as their bats?

    1. Didi……was he referring to his positioning in the shift alignments, or something more technical in how he fields a batted ball?

    2. Didi has 16 total errors….fielding errors are 9 , throwing errors are 7.

      He ranks 8th in the league among all shortstops in throwing errors.
      And he has played in only 90 games…..the shortstops above him with more throwing errors have played in more games and have had more chances.
      However, Bo Bichette is the only one with more fielding errors.
      https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=ss&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=y&type=0&season=2021&month=0&season1=2021&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2021-01-01&enddate=2021-12-31&sort=11,d

      I am not sure I can buy Didi’s argument.

  73. You know, I neglected to consider Vierling as a platoon option with Odubel in LF next season. That way, DD can forego re-signing Cutch. Provided he acquires a bonafide CF, I think that would be a much better allotment of salary.

  74. Remember when people were wondering why the Phillies didn’t sign Brad Hand? He’s had a brutal year: -0.3 WAR. Got traded to the Blue Jays and stunk, picked up by the Mets and he hasn’t performed there either. The Phillies (and in particular Odubel) has really hit him around.

  75. So the Mets gave James McCann 4 years, $40.6M at age 30, and he’s given the Mets 0.1 WAR his first season. Yikes.

      1. Hinkie – I just got off the phone with him and he says you’re welcome. He offers you a kale, celery, and tree bark smoothie along with some tanning oil.

          1. Manager Of The Year. All he needed was better support from the FO and the Managing Partner.
            I give Matt Klentak credit for unearthing Kapler (one of his few instances of “outside the box” thinking). I blame Matt Klentak for not providing Gabe with the support he/any manager needed to succeed.

    1. I’ll say it again … the smartest move they can make is to promote Dana Parks to director of player development.

  76. Seems to be a recurring theme in the offensive scheme of things……….Segura and Harper. Hope neither one goes “cold” down the backstretch. Speaking of the “backstretch” where is Rocco, have there been any sightings?

    1. Yes, Skeet. Harper, Segura, and cross your fingers. Can you imagine how much easier things could be if JTR and Didi heated up?

  77. Things have changed. I’m not sure how this season will end … but however it does, the Phillies have an MVP candidate and a CY candidate. Spend to the moon and empty the farm … just make the moves that work. You can mess it up .. pull a klentak on us DD

    1. Though he is done for the baseball season, 60-Day IL …….not sure if the optics would be good if he is at the Linc.

    1. Someone ought to send them a roll of flex seal … patch that relationship right up! (I’ll try to stop lol)

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