Phillies Decide NOT to Extend Amaro’s Contract

The Phillies announced their decision to not extend the contract of GM Ruben Amaro.  assistant GM Scott Proefrock was named interim GM effective immediately.

I know most of the reader here couldn’t wait for this to happen.  I am rpoviding this thread so that the anti-Amaro discussion can be posted here.  Keep them out of the minor league threads.  I don’t want to have to delete a lot of misplaced comments, as I have already been forced to do.

The Phillies press release is provided for those who haven’t seen it.

180 thoughts on “Phillies Decide NOT to Extend Amaro’s Contract

  1. Yay!! The only reason to make this move now is because there’s someone available who they want to talk to right now. They don’t want someone signing with another team before they got a chance to talk to the person. Who could that be?

      1. maybe just follows on the heels of record low attendance for the Tanking Series just completed with Atlanta, and they want to seem displeased about it.

  2. Gotta love John Middleton getting out front of the ownership group at the moment. Dude clearly wants to win, and soon.

  3. Amaro did learn, but unfortunately on the job. This cost the Phillies gravely. A rebuild — a way too late one — should not have led to several deep sub-.500 seasons. I feel Amaro would actually make a decent GM now. Even so, this is a necessary move as the team continues to move forward.

  4. Won’t matter to the Amaro defenders, any bad move he made was Montgomery’s fault, and now all the good moves he gets credit for, even after it has been reported that Gillick had final say on all decisions this year.

    1. Maybe Amaro wanted out now so he could pursue the other GM positions open in MLB and did not want to be left hanging in the wind by the Phillies. Other factors were the attendance decreases and the fan base attitude. Overall, he did what the prior ownership wanted and took a lot of bullets for Giles and Montgomery. He was done by the lack of talent development which led to hanging on the core too long which was not entirely his fault.

        1. Alex, take the time to research the Giles/Montgomery ownership history and realize that in 33 years (since 1982)that they developed only two great teams. One in 1993 was a fluke as everyone on that team had career years and they resigned many people to bad contracts. Of course the other team was the 2006-2011 team that won the WS. The Phillies teams with Carlton and Schmidt don’t count. They had Paul Owens, Lee Thomas and Ed Wade who knew what they were doing. The fans will say the same thing about Amaro as they said about Wade in 2008 when we start to contend again soon. The major themes throughout Giles tenure of 32 years was the lack of young player development and bad contracts.

          1. philabalt…..but Bill Giles’ hands were tied for all those years……it is a ‘small- market team’ and finances were limited! 🙂

      1. ‘Overall, he did what the prior ownership wanted and took a lot of bullets for Giles and Montgomery.’…..and Charlie.

        1. What is this narrative based on it’s disgusting that once Montgomery became sick and was pushed out the team decided to make him the fall guy. I heard Amaro defend the Howard contract, there is no way he was pressured into giving him that extension.

          1. The Phillies GMs have always defended the owners and want they insisted be done. That’s the major job of a Phillies GM. Giles/Monty may both have been very nice guys, I think that is an accurate characterization of both, but they both were also meddling owners who severely harmed the Phillies prospects of winning.

          2. Alex, when you work for the owner don’t you do what they tell you to do no matter what you think? If not then you will be fired after awhile for defying management.

            1. Show me the evidence they told him to re-sign Howard you don’t really believe he wouldn’t have re-signed Howard if the choice had been his. Also, I don’t give Wade credit I give Arbuckle credit, anyone with intelligence realizes souting directors are responsible for drafting I am not giving Wade credit for drafting the core of that team.

            2. Agreed – Ed Wade was a bumbling caretaker GM – the only thing he did well was not trade away the great players that Arbuckle drafted – he also made the Abreu trade so I have to give him credit for that. Aside from that he was COMPLETELY in over his head as GM and other GMs ran circles around him just as they did with Amaro.

              I really like the setup of the front office now. Experienced and open-minded baseball executive as President and an owner who is pushing for change but is not a tyrant together with a burgeoning farm system – this is some very good groundwork for a fabulous team – now they need to nail the GM decision, but I think in 3 years this team could be in the process of being very good and staying very good. There’s a lot to like about MacPhail – and he’s a class act – very consistent with the best aspects of the Phillies.

        2. Romus, agree that the one person who is getting off really easy is Charlie Manuel for his insistence for veterans and not working young players in. Remember he resigned from the Cleveland Indians when they started a rebuild in the early 2000’s.

    1. For me the key in this is that they did not offer him another position and that to me is the positive direction.

      Good people get let go and that’s just how it goes. Monty wanted to keep everyone on board and that was how we wound up in this mess.

      1. DMAR…..yes, not offering him, is indicative of the direction that the team will be headed…the new ‘Phillies Way’.
        But once the dust settles with what this morning, have to see what happens.

  5. I did defend Amaro a little, I think he took way too much heat. I thought he was middle of the pack in terms of GM rankings. That said, he’s been there long enough. It was time for a change.

    1. I think it’s time for a change in the whole organization.Although there is plenty to blame on Amaro.
      Also the entire scouting and player development staff has to be purged.There are still some good people down there,but there’s also people just collecting a pay check.
      McPhail alluded to the lack of pitching in the organization in a not so subtle way a the news conference today.
      The axe must fall on McClure and probably others on down the line because a majority of the pitchers are coming to the major leagues totally unprepared and they don’t improve once they get there.
      The new manager must have the freedom to select his coaching staff also and not be stuck with the same people who didn’t work out for the last manager.It’s just my opinion,but I can see no good qualities in the current major league coaching staff.

      1. Sure has…..August, Cherington was replaced as the Red Sox VP of Baseball Ops by Dave Dombrowski, and declined the opportunity to remain as the GM…so maybe he wants more then the GM position.

  6. Hurray! We can now move forward with, I hope, a clean slate. Let’s hope that wisdom prevails in the team’s choice of a successor.

  7. would be interesting if somehow a core of Thompson/Nola/Franco/Nick Williams/Alfaro/Giles leads this team to the top (doubt that is enough) just as Wade’s players led the last group, after his departure

    I thin they should have gotten rid of Amaro 4 years ago. THat said, the past 3 years he has done a lot right.

    1. The problem with the love for Wade is his players were drafted years apart. Only Utley, Howard and Cole were drafted close to each other. That’s part of why the team fell apart so quickly. He hit on a handful of picks out of many.

      Amaro has done a much, much better job.

      1. can’t say that yet re: Amaro’s drafting

        Wade drafted
        -A fringe HOF player (Utley- seems unlikely based on baseball reference but not many 2nd basemen in there)
        – an eventual league MVP (Howard)
        -top of rotation starter (Hamels)

        and many misses or disappointments, as you pointed out

        Thus far, Amaro has drafted nobody of significance. Obviously not fair as his players are still developing. Crawford looks to be the real deal.. Jury out on everybody else

        1. My point is we have more homegrown talent now than we ever did under Wade. Not all superstars but solid players and at least a few good pitchers.

  8. very nice list!- there would have to be a few questions about vesting options, 12 million dollar buyouts, players to be named later, and giving 2 year deals to 46 year old starting pitchers.

  9. Looks like Ruben wasn’t offered any other positons in the org…..’never came up in the fifteen minutes’ JRoll was right on….Middleton is ‘Steinbrenner South’

  10. My hunch is Ben Cherrington as well. Maybe he turned down staying with the Sox because he had his eye on this job. He might have more autonomy here than he would have working under Dombrowski in Boston. Just a guess on my part, though.

    1. He is analytically inclined and did well with the farm…but had lots of money to work with.
      Contracts to Sandoval, Ramirez and Porcello may be a blemish on his resume.

      1. Thoughts on Cherington’s untouchable prospect list if he joined the Phils? My guess is he’d draw the line at Brian Pointer. ☺

  11. Don’t forget that Amaro has played as part of a duet in recent years with Gillick who, in my opinion, should have been the first one out the door. He seems to have a knack for making himself look important when, in reality, he is just as responsible for the Phils’ demise as Amaro was. Maybe even more so, in light of his experience. Gillick always seemed tremendously talented at patting himself on the back and claiming responsibility for whatever was successful while avoiding any association with the errors of the front office.

  12. MacPhail will be completely in charge, Gillick won’t even be a consultant any longer, according to rumors. Not having anyone whispering in his ear and answering only to Middleton should help. I will be very surprised if a GM with analytics experience is not hired.

    1. matt14….spilled milk…but have to wonder if Cliff Lee holds that 4-run lead vs the Cardinals and Phillies go on to win another WS….Ruben gets an extension, and this date and happening is sometime in the future.

  13. Romus I was just talking to my nephew who does some radio. He knows Middleton. told me he never saw a guy more determine then Middleton after the series lost in 2009. His words to howard we will get that f —- trophy back. Just told him years to get control. Now the fun begins.

    1. He does appear to be very aggressive and progressive.
      JRoll seem to hit the nail on the head last year on how he is.
      He seems like a no nonsense guy.
      He ran and owned a profitable billion dollar company…but eventually it went up in ‘smoke’…thats a joke!
      Will see where it all goes from here.

  14. I believe that 2011 ending in another WS win changes the whole narrative or the organization. But, if they had not traded Lee after 2009, I believe they win the WS in 2010. The pieces were there to win multiple WS. They should have been the Giants or the Cards. Now, they play in a great stadium to 7500 people.

    1. That’s the Giles/Montgomery Phillies for you. All they care about is “being in the mix”, not actually winning. Hence why they let Beltran sign with NY instead and signed a past his prime Kenny Lofton.

      1. I cannot disagree with you TruePhan. I am not a RAJ supporter, and do not let him off the hook, but there were numerous decisions that Giles and Monty made that were unnecessary and detrimental to the team. Giles was afraid to be a big market owner, and I think that led directly to the Lee trade. As it did the needing $ back in deals that cost additional prospects.

        1. Yeah, imagine if we had some of those prospects this whole time. Or say if they signed Werth rather than trying to replace him with Brown. So many dumb decisions based on money.

          1. Werth was not all that good after leaving the Phils. As a result of injuries, I think he would be considered another bad contract at this point.

  15. My mistake Romus! Even the Phanatic singing Elvis did not bring a big crowd. But, I think MacPhail has a chance to really succeed. The farm system has talent, they have a lot of $ that Middleton is willing to spend, and a fan base that will pack the place again if there is even a whiff of contention coming. I know there needs to be some good luck and the top prospects need to actually make the Majors, and then play at a high level, but there are pieces in place for a good run, if the leadership does its job.

    1. I am worried that McPhail (based on his past) will not move fast enough for Middleton and not be around for a long time.

  16. Hear what Middleton said about what Amaro said about the fans. Yes I heard about that and I wasn’t happy and Told him I wasn’t. We mite be a little aggressive in free agency new president new way .

    1. If they are going the young, less experienced route, I’d rather have David Stearns. Phillies really need a transformation in process and baseball operations, and I think no one has been better at that than Jeff Luhnow (both Houston and St. Louis).

    1. MacPhail was on with Tom McCarthy and Matt Stairs…..and one thing he mentioned, after analyzing the org over these last few months, the apparent lack of or the ‘thin’ pitching prospects from within the org.
      Not sure how to take that….with all the arms accumulated over the last year or so…maybe he sees many projected as back-of-the-rotation guys or relievers.
      So wants to get more talent.
      I guess the first two picks, 1st and 2nd round, next year in the draft will be pitching, which we all knew anyway.

      1. makes sense, outside of Nola, Thompson and Kilome, we don’t have much to get excited for in terms of front of the rotation SP and with Kilome he’s got so many levels to go through you just don’t know how that will pan out. Pinto we’ll get a better idea of next year at Reading so he could be another. I was impressed with all the outings I saw of Eickhoff at LV and was a big fan of Morgan’s before the injury but who knows if they will be able to turn into something high then 4 or 5 types.

        I’d say it’s easily the biggest weakness for the Phillies going forward. But as you say the draft next June could really help and who know where they will be picking in the 2017 draft as well. Getting a top 3 pick next year should hopefully help improve our lack of front of the rotation types. I also don’t count anyone in the GCL and VSL/DSL. I am very interested to seeing what Alexis Riverio and Tirado can do as SP’s though.

        1. I like Eickhoff a lot. I think he’s got #3 potential. Reminds me of Happ except he throws harder. I was not on board with the Morgan pick at all because I felt he was just a Cliff Lee replacement but he’s got seriously good stuff. I can see why they were so high on him. Even now, he was able to throw a perfect game through four innings. If he can come anywhere near getting back to the pitcher he was pre-injury, he will be a great piece of the rotation going forward. But yeah the system itself is pretty thin. Can’t wait to see Kilome and Pinto as they advance.

      2. Romus a lot of back end guys like bucanan I been saying that. One thing I heard and excuse me for not listening to the whole press conference. Was andy saying he wants someone who isn’t a yes man. I want a guy who will if he believes I am wrong , With repect voice his concerns and options. That imo kind of makes the people on here like me and some others who have said amaro was a yes man for giles and Montgomery. right about him not standing up when he thought they were making mistakes in the contracts given out. I also believe he didn’t persist in getting them more involved in latin market and Cuban market. I believe his yes attitude made the firing easier.

    1. You’re welcome Alex. I work hard on this site producing content and reviewing posts. When I think a comment crosses a line, I delete it. When I think a comment “invites the trolls to join in”, I delete it. If I think a comment obliterates the line, I block the the person. I put a lot of effort into this site for free. It eats up a lot of my time. If I err on one side of the line, I think I’ve earned the right. I’ve reviewed your previous comments, and think the clever post I deleted was, well clever. But, it is the type of comment that draws the wrong type of people.

      1. Given that you do this on a completely voluntary basis – and do a stellar job of it – I commend you on taking the initiative to eliminate the negative and obstructive comments. Thank you for a great thorough job !

      2. The very reason frequent this site and, since April, have not looked at or made comments to Phillies articles at, is that they remain respectful here within reason. Thank you for upholding that, Jim, and all the time you put into this as well.

  17. Also Medina throws fb 93 to 96 curveball. Ramos , Mcwilliams, leibrandt, Falter.Gilbert, Falter etc . Maybe comebacks from Imhof, Biddle. Their Pinto,Pivetta . Some I missed some Arano, Garcia .leltwich.

  18. Perhaps the future team will emphasize pitching as #1 in the scheme which they should be able to help in ’16…with those first two round picks. The idea seems like the Giants’ plan which has worked until now when their staff is all but dead. Their buildup to championships with the addition of a super star, Posey. Their outfield is mediocre but they’ve managed to bring two infielders with on base skills (2b, 3b…so far) and a very good fielding SS. Right field is managed well by our own former RFer…when he’s not on the DL.

    Were it not for Madbum, they’d be sure also-rans. Cain and The Freak are fading away and Hudson is retiring after the season. Peavy is holding on…

    I mention all this because it emphasizes to me just how much superior pitching is the first order of business to be a winning franchise. What happened to SF was that they failed to keep on drafting better pitchers WHILE THEY WERE ON TOP & that a constant emphasized priority need not be abandoned when your team is still winning.

    I just hope that they “creed” is remembered by the Alvarez gang in ’16 and ’17 when the position players are beginning to look good enough to surround that very good staff.

    1. That was exactly what I was saying the other day. You need superior pitching.

      To me things changed for the Giants when they traded for Zito. It looked like a disaster of a trade in the beginning but then just as Cain and Lincecum were starting to dominate, Zito regained the form he had with the As and it put them over the top and helped them win their first World Series of this century. Sort of like with Hudson and the Braves except they didn’t have those great young pitchers so it didn’t work out the same, or Johan and the Mets, etc. That’s why I say the Phillies need to sign Price and go heavy on high-upside pitchers.

      1. Seriously, your thinking that Zito was really an important part of the Giants WS titles is among the most inane things ever written on this site. The Zito contract was a disaster of the highest order – one of the worst free agent contracts in baseball history. Barry Zito was paid $126 million by the Giants. Assuming a 1 WAR is worth $5 million, he would have had to have produced about 25 or WAR over the life of the contract (about 3.6 WAR annually) to have roughly justified the value of the deal. He produced an aggregate 3 WAR over the life of the contract and did not produce 3.6 WAR in any year. What the heck are you smoking? You literally have no idea what you are talking about and yet you are so boastful and confident that what you say is the absolute truth.

        1. My apologies for being so strident – I did not intend to be mean-spirited, but you post so many things here that just make no sense or are just flat out wrong. But you have the right to post as you wish and I’m glad you like the Phillies – I just disagree with most of what you say.

          1. It’s hilarious how you spew this garbage when in reality everything you post is your opinion.

            You must not remember how well he pitched early in 2010 or especially how he in fact was a big reason they won in 2012 by outdueling Verlander. But go on and keep mouthing off to me. It’s entertaining.

            And you must not realize that signing him was a huge move that signaled that the team was looking to take the next step and contend in the near future. You don’t seem to understand how just making a move like that changes expectations and has an effect on the culture and the environment, and I’m really not at all surprised about that. It didn’t work out at first but no way they win in 2012 without him, and he took the pressure off of guys like Cain and Lincecum as the staff ace and thus the one who had the most expected of him.

            What’s especially funny is that you think you disagreeing means anything whatsoever. Who are you exactly to put yourself on a pedestal above me?

            1. My apologies for coming off as mean-spirited – that was not my intention and I do not believe I am better than you as a person or anything like that. We are all just fans and have opinions.

              My point was to disagree with and take on your opinions, which I vehemently contest because, on the whole, they simply are at odds with the facts and have no statistical support. If you think that the Barry Zito signing was a good one – essentially every shred of statistical evidence refutes that and refutes it soundly. Barry Zito spent his entire career with the Giants as a functional #5 when he was being paid as an ace. That, by definition is a bad contract, a horribly, historically bad contract.

              As for whether disagreeing with you means anything – let’s be clear, none of this discussion means anything at all.

              I am going to stop taking a severe tone with you and will generally ignore your posts because the things you say generally have no factual support and do not make sense.

              I’m not better than you as a person, but that doesn’t mean that you’re right about these things and that your positions are correct. They aren’t.

            2. LOL and you speak this nonsense ENTIRELY based on advanced statistics. That’s what is especially funny. You don’t make more sense than me, and you don’t know baseball better than I do. No matter how much you want to mouth off and imply otherwise, we’re equals.

              You go entirely by statistics. I don’t. You see a guy with however many WAR in Odubel. I see a guy who is a great fielder, has great speed, some power, and the potential to be a great hitter. Even if he doesn’t repeat anywhere near this average in the future, that combination should terrorize teams for years to come. He’s what they call a spark-plug. I see every player as what they are while at the same time acknowledging that in baseball physical attributes don’t guarantee anything. You can be huge like Art Charles and never hit for power or tiny like Galvis and hit double-digit HRs.

              But that doesn’t mean stats are everything, either.

              I never said it was a good signing, genius. You put those words in my mouth. In the end it worked out though, and signing him changed everything for them the same way the Mets bringing in Johan, the Nats bringing in Gio, the Marlins bringing in guys like Buehrle, etc did. Those moves don’t always work out but they don’t have to when you have young arms with potential. You just need a few good years. And Zito to me was more like Cole than anything… an inconsistent ace who is not on the same tier as a guy like Price.

            3. I tried to be nice and make this a polite conversation.

              “LOL and you speak this nonsense ENTIRELY based on advanced statistics. That’s what is especially funny. You don’t make more sense than me, and you don’t know baseball better than I do. No matter how much you want to mouth off and imply otherwise, we’re equals.”

              Yeah, and I do know baseball better than you pal, sorry to tell you that. And it ain’t close.

            4. And, by the way, Barry Zito’s performance on the Giants was NOTHING like Cole Hamels’ performance for the Phillies. You gave yourself away when you compared Eickhoff to JA Happ – they are alike in that they are both pitchers. Aside from that they are NOTHING alike.

            5. After you mouthed off. Like one of those people who starts a fight then says “I was just kidding”. How exactly did you expect me to respond?

              Actually, no you don’t. Explain things using something other than statistics and maybe I’ll agree you’ve got as much knowledge as you claim to.

            6. Lol okay this should be fun…

              They’re both inconsistent lefties who have had years of dominance mixed with years of inconsistency from start to start. They’re both guys who came out very good as rookies and young pitchers and never lived up to that consistently. And I never once compared Zito’s days with the Giants to Cole with the Phillies. I was talking entire career.

              And as for JA Happ and Eickhoff? Both guys who came up later, both guys whose command and ability to throw the curve for a strike made them project as potential #3 starters, both guys who had early success. Both guys dominated AAA before having that early success. The only difference is Eickhoff throws harder, which is to be expected of a eighty. At the time, JA’s velocity was just fine for a lefty. But you’re right, they’re not similar at all.

            7. Dude, 90% of measuring effectiveness in baseball IS statistics. Not everything is statistics in baseball (especially evaluting very young prospects) but most of it is and statistics are both explanatory (evaluating what happened) and predictive (evaluating what will happen) – ignoring statistics in baseball is like ignoring physics in space exploration. They are almost entirely the same thing. So stop it, you are revealing how little you know. Just admit you don’t understand this stuff and start to take it in.

            8. I understand it very well. You ASSUME I don’t because I don’t often use them in my argument. Do I buy into every advanced statistic out there? Nope, not at all. You do. Good for you. I choose to combine what I see with stats. Whether you will ever admit it or not, stats lie. A lot.

              I especially hate FIP, because some pitchers are just contact pitchers.

            9. That’s exactly what I said. Eickhoff is a righty, so his higher velocity is to be expected because righties need to throw harder in general. But other than that him and Happ are exactly alike. It’s that higher velocity that gives Eickhoff more of a chance to reach his ceiling than Happ did, but they are extremely similar pitchers.

            10. Because I guess I’m just a big fan of lost causes, allow me to explain to you why signing Zito helped the Giants in the long run.

              Without Zito to, a team that had guys like Barry Bonds and some other “win now” types would have then had expectations put on whoever was either the de facto ace or had the most potential out of the young pitchers. That would mean Noah Lowry or Cain and Lincecum. Had that pressure been put on them instead of him, that rotation probably would have fallen apart. Cain took awhile to really pitch like an ace, and Lincecum needed some seasoning. Signing Zito allowed that to happen because he was the one answering questions and having that pressure put on him. You clearly don’t understand what that kind of pressure does to young players who haven’t figured it all out just yet.

            11. So you pay Barry Zito $126 million so he can absorb the pressure? Not a good business idea nor is that a sound argument. They paid him $126 million to be an ace – not a whipping boy. He failed. He failed utterly. The other pitchers would have been fine without him and if they hadn’t signed him they could have put the money to better use.

            12. That’s not why they signed him. They signed him to be an ace. But that’s what he did for them as the staff ace.

              Cain and Lincecum were NOT ready to be under that kind of pressure. You ASSUME they were. Lowry just flat out wasn’t ever going to be an ace yet he would have been the one under that pressure short term.

          2. I’m not all about numbers and I didn’t want to get in the middle of this, but comparing Zito to Hamels is absolutely one of the craziest things I’ve ever seen posted. Maybe somebody has Zito’s numbers against the Phils after signing with the Giants. I seem to remember a lot of nights, like Buchanon has had of late, against the Phils. Wow!

            1. Why would you compare Hamels with the Phillies to Zit o with the Giants? He was almost 30 when he signed with SF.

            2. ‘And Zito to me was more like Cole than anything… an inconsistent ace who is not on the same tier as a guy like Price’
              Cole was not an inconsistent ace but for one year ’09.
              Plus I thought it was mentioned that Barry Zito was signed to provide ‘staff stability’ to a young staff featuring Lincecum and Cain.

            3. There’s been a total of maybe one or two seasons that Cole has consistently pitched like an ace start to start. Most other years we needed guys like Halladay and Lee to be the ace and Cole was just Cole.

              And Zito was signed to be an ace and help them win a WS. It didn’t happen at the time. He wasn’t signed to take pressure off the two young arms with promise (well three if you count Sanchez). That’s just what ended up happening. Like what Lee and Halladay did for Cole or even what Lieber did for Brett Myers who never lived up to expectations. Being an ace is a ton of pressure, especially in a city that has had enough of losing. Imagine what would have happened with Lester and Bucholz if the Red Sox never bring in Beckett and Dice K. Or with Strasburg and the other young arms if Washington never brings in Wang, Gio, and Cahill. Or even Fister since Strasburg was injured off and on at that point. Or let’s say with Zamarja and Arrieta without Lester. Pitchers who are not ready to take on that role and especially ones who aren’t capable of it get crushed by that pressure unless it’s in Tampa Bay or Arizona or something.

            4. Well, all GMs try to max out on their pitching staffs when they see the chance for that ring. And wehter or not one pitcher ‘picks’ up other pitchers can be questioned. The Phillies situation was different in that Roy Hall, Lee and oswalt were all older then Cole and perhaps more mature in the ways of the pitching world. So it is different on different levels.
              And like you say…Zito’s signing just did not work the way the Giants would have hoped, until that one golden year.

            5. True. That’s the age old question though…. If it wins you a championship, was it worth it no matter what? A lot of people said the Halladay deal would be if he won us a championship. I disagreed, at least partially because we won already in 2008. I don’t know for sure if I’d have viewed it the same before that though.

              What I do know, is if I’m swinging for the fences like that I’d much rather it be for a guy like Price and much rather it only be money I give up.

      2. @TruePhan – i agree that you need superior pitching. Expecially if you get that talent thru scouting and developed in your farm since it can help you for years to come. But if it cost $240M to get Price just to ease the pressure from Nola and not part of the LT plans, then it’s not a wise decision.

        1. To you. You don’t seem to get what pressure does to young pitchers who are not aces. It’s only been a half season of a losing year that Nola has been looked at this way, and everybody is giving him rope because he’s a rookie. Do you think the fans will give him that rope next year? Or Eickhoff? Or Morgan? Or Asher? If they struggle out of the gate, they’ll feel it right away from the fans and especially the media. Even this year, when we had a duct tape rotation and a shaky bullpen, fans got on the team about how much they *stink* (edited for content). From the very beginning when they lost the first game. This isn’t like with the Sixers where people will be patient with rebuilding. Not when you’ve got players like Odubel, Franco, and the young arms we have. Nola will be looked at to be an ace next season, and Thompson will be looked at as the savior of the rotation. You really want them under that kind of pressure?

          And you don’t sign Price entirely for that reason. That’s what you don’t seem to get. You sign him to be your ace until you don’t need him anymore, and you sign him entirely because he was traded last year and is not the type of pitcher who ends up in FA pretty much ever.

        2. They are not signing Price, either to be the staff ace, or to “ease the pressure” off of Nola and the other young arms. Nola may not have the talent to be a #1, but it’s obvious to me he doesn’t need someone to take the pressure off of him. We’re talking about major leaguers, not middle school or high school pitchers. No GM would spend 240 millon to “ease the pressure” off of the rest of the staff.

  19. Price isn’t the answer at this time. I hate those 30 million plus contracts for a 30 yr old pitcher. I think I rather used that money to build the whole team. kill the latin go as high as it warrants for kids market and sign a couple Cuban players if they are available.

    1. My take on Middleton from yesterday.
      All business…period.
      Would not surprise me if he ‘suggests’ to Andy Mac to go ahead and sign a top Cuban prospect like that OFer Eddy Julio Martinez….with what $$$ it takes, and worry about the after effects later.

      1. If you want a Cuban so bad why not throw it at Cespedes at least he is a proven MLB player and you get him out from under the Mets.

        But I agree if I’m Middleton I let it be known we are open for business and ready to pay for top line talent.

        I keep looking at Heyward still young (looks incredibly old) great defense the offense at times leaves a lot to be desired in terms of power but really a solid player.

        1. IMO, I rather they go with the young talented players at this point….let them mature with the JPCs, Francos, Nolas.
          Plus they are cost controlled for awhile.
          Cespedes is a truly having an amazing run these last 35 games with the Mets.
          I can only assume he will be looking for a $20Mplus AAV for 5/6 years payday.
          Heyward, somewhere around that number also.
          Now that the Mets can negotiate with him like all other teams and not just before May 2016….I think they are in the driver’s seat, especially if they go far into the playoffs or WS.

          1. Either way you have to give the appearance that you are ready pay if nothing else then to drive the cost up. The Met’s are still hurting financially.

            1. DMAR….that is a good idea…play poker with the Mets…their fan base now would revolt if they let their current hero walk away.

  20. No way at all I could support giving Price a Scherzer type contract now but I’d be a player around the $150-$180 mark.

    Say you land him for that you have Price Nola Thompson, Giles closing and you fill out around that (Brett Anderson).

    You got what should be a pretty decent line-up around Franco, Crawford and Williams but you need some power some where preferably from the left side. (Chris Davis) (Adam Lind) both guys could be had on high AAV short term deals

    It’s not out of the realm of possible they could push for a WC 2016-2017

    I’m sure the agents for said players won’t share my vision.

    1. That’s why I feel you have to outbid everybody. Otherwise I don’t think the agents or maybe even the player will see what an opportunity this is. You add Price to this rotation and a legit setup man to the bullpen and look out.

  21. I believe middleton will push to be better soon like you say 17 at least. That being said. I just don’t like to see them go big on price like I stated , I would love to bring in younger talent. The overpaying on heyward scares me. but he does fit the mold of younger player and would be a fixture in right field. but will he produce enough to warrant that money. I really don’t know. I would have a tough time giving him 7 years 140 plus.

    1. Who willl drive the next bus for the Phillies?
      JPC period.
      You want to surround him with young talent that will mature with him.
      Franco will have a seat on the bus, along with hopefuls like Williams, Herrera, Alfaro, Knapp and Quinn…and also maybe Hoskins and Cozens.
      And a young Cuban in the mix for more depth.
      MacPhail seems to think pitching is ‘thin’…well Nola, Thompson and Eflin could be in the mix…but 2016 1st round and 2nd round picks are critical selections for them.
      Get that CBP bus rolling!

    2. roccom…that would be my plan and what I think will happen. One more year of this, but the younger players will be better abd the one’s in Reading will be a year older. I have no idea what/if any Asian players will become available, what Cuban’s will be out there. Blow out the international money and start signing free agents to fill in in 17, not now. When the season’s over, Howard will be down to $35 mil and Lee to $10 mil.

  22. I am an Amaro critic and I think letting him go was the right choice. But I do want to push back against the “stuck too long with the veterans” idea. Some truth to it, but the big problem was the lack of viable replacements for the veterans. The system went through a remarkable dry spell that essentially precluded a meaningful rebuild until now. How much of that specifically was Amaro’s fault is open to debate.

    Which brings me to an Allentown comment from a week ago that I didn’t have time to respond to. Paraphrasing, but basically he argued that the success of the team since the ASB vindicates a “tear it down” strategy. The key response to that is “timing.” Yes, it was time to let the veterans go. It wasn’t, really, until now. Look at the young guys who are making the team at least somewhat competitive. Some weren’t with the organization until this year, some weren’t ready for the majors, some were in the majors but have taken at least small steps forward.

    If the “fire sale” had taken place a year or two ago, as many advocated, the team would have been truly horrible for a period of time. By waiting, that fate was avoided. And at no real cost – on the whole, the returns for the veterans was high.

    1. It’s interesting – the question is whether they missed their window of opportunity on any trades. I think for Rollins, Hamels, Utley and Papelbon, the answer is probably “no” – they got about as much as they were going to get during the time period when the team was or should have been rebuilding. They did miss some window of opportunity on Lee and, maybe, Ruiz, particularly Lee. But I think, at the time he was traded, the back end of Lee’s contract was so lengthy and expensive it would have depressed the prospect haul.

        1. Nope – the tail of the contract was too big at that point and word was that there were still lingering concerns in front offices around baseball that his competent performance would not last over time due to his decrease in velocity – it took his continued excellent performance this year to overcome those concerns, at which point the tail end of the contract became manageable (with a little financial help from the Phillies).

          1. Then why did they say Amaro was demanding teams’ best prospects and wouldn’t make the deals that were on the table?

            1. Huh? What dopey Ruben Amaro was demanding has very little to do with what, hypothetically, the Phillies could have gotten for a deal for Papelbon the year before he was traded. First, nobody outside of that front office really knows what consideration they could have received so it’s all guesswork – I don’t really know and you don’t really know – we are all guessing. That said, the word was that Papelbon’s value was down all across baseball last year because his contract was so big (and had so many years remaining) and because executives were worried about his precipitous drop in velocity which, under normal circumstances, would hasten a decrease in effectiveness. It took Papelbon another year to prove that he was an outlier – the rare reliever who could lose a lot of velocity yet still remain just as effective.

    2. “the lack of viable replacements for the veterans”….IMO two trades hurt the farm and the replacements that would have been a requisite for continuity of success.
      1. The Lee trade to the Mariners…..they rolled the dice, and suffered the loss
      2. The Pence trade to the Giants…..ditto number one.
      It is a risk with prospects and both times it failed them.

      But then again I look at the Mets, Cubs, Nats, Royals, Pirates, and Astros…all very bad teams for long periods of time…and finally worked the draft properly and had some luck with a few trades and money spent on international talent. The cycle of baseball.

      1. The Lee trade to the Mariners was a disaster and not just due to the awful prospect haul (easier to see in retrospect, but all were good prospects at the time), but because this unnecessary trade cost them probably a second WS title – so it’s an unforgivable sin.

        The Pence trade was a misfire at every step. The prospect haul to get him was too much, there was no reason to trade him (as oppose to retain him), and then when they did trade him their received nothing in return. None of it turned out well.

        1. He rolled the dice and came up short. It happens.
          Cards made two of the worst trades in history,,,,Wise for Carlton and Ray Sadecki for Orlando Cepeda.
          But then again they made two of the best in Brock (Cubs) and Ozzie (Padres)….you win some you lose some.

          Unfortunately for the Phillies , under Ruben’s watch two misfired and further hurt a depleted farm system.

    3. Not only have you made a great point here but who is going to pay for a TV contract when the team on that station loses 100 games in 2+ consecutive years. My take is that the true “tear down” could not take place until that TV deal was closed and consummated.

      1. Here’s another take…

        If they had drafted better in the Ed Wade years, hadn’t traded away major prospects for guys they didn’t need, and had made better decisions in general such as trading guys at the right time to get better prospects (like Victorino, Blanton, Ruiz, Papelbon, etc).. they wouldn’t have to be tearing it all down in the first place. Hell, rather than sign an aging Papelbon, they could have given Matheison a shot. Rather than signing Cliff Lee, if they never trade him in the first place then they don’t lose their first rounder in 2011 or 2012. Rather than trading for Lidge, they could have just re-signed Wagner. And rather than always needing a CF, they could have started Byrd who became an All Star. Then you go back to signing David Bell after only one good year in the Giants’ run to the WS in order to replace Rolen, always needing to replace the ace they traded away, and now the hole in right ever since the let Werth walk. Plus not signing Rodney when they had the chance. Not to mention some of those awful FA signings that cost us picks and left us with guys like Mike Costanzo and Tim Brown I believe his name was as our first picks in certain drafts. Signing Thome was great. Most of the other signings were far from it. The Phillies under Giles have always been reactive rather than proactive in their moves, and it continues to cost them.

        1. with hindsight, if the Phils just resigned Lee to a $90M/5 yr contract and spend the dollars on Beltre (than Ibanez and Polanco) and promote Moss (or sign FA poer bats for LF), they could have easily won 2010 and 2011. With Beltre on the line, they probably did not commit the Hunter Pence mistake and probably sign a younger Cuddyer when he is begging to be with the Phils.

    4. Other than bad contracts and inability to assess talents obtained from some big trades (Pence, Lee as example) RAJ inability to replenish the farm during his tenure contibutes to the lack of replacements. I see that they lost 1st rounders when they signed bigtime FAs, but they still have the rest of the drafts in 2009 and 2012 and the international market to infuse young talent.

      post 2011 already told them what future lies. phils did already started by trading Vic, Pence but I see hesitation after. Whether the Vic, Pence trades are failure or not –Phils should have continued by trading Lee 2013 and salvage any value for Utley/Rollins/Chooch in 2013/2014.

      Imagine the haul if they traded Lee in July of 2013 — the prospects they probably received already contributing to MLB right now.

    5. Really good point. They have been bad, but not unwatchable most of the time. You’re right, as bad as was watching them until they started unloading some of the older players, it would have been laughable with some of the players they would have had to roll out there had they started this 2 years ago. It would have been like those post 93 teams. It also doesn’t look like the return has hurt them either.

  23. The Phils had ample opportunities to address the lack of prospects and it had nothing to do with their draft position, or, for the most part, the trades they made to bring in big-name talent. There was no need to require money back, therefore they could have saved a couple of their own prospects. They missed tie boat on overslot signings when there was no slot. And, they could have done much more in International prospects. Plus, their drafting was awful. Part of that was RAJ, but also the Giles/Monty ownership. Whoever said it was unforgiveable to trade Lee was correct. Regardless of the lousy return, it cost them a shot at the WS in 2010.

    1. @ matt – i think Phils have equal opportinuties the same as the rest of the league to address lack of prospects. they are still allowed to draft players local, international and rule V. like i posted earlier, they probably lost 1st rounders when they signed big FAs, but they still have the rest of the draft and ability/$$ to sign international FA. The problem lies when they failed to “HIT” on high upsides and “toolsy” players particularly in 2009 to 2012.

    1. matt13….Probably will not see them go that route yet….but still like them try to fortify the farm with ‘trade-chip July pitchers looking to rebound and cash in’…and a few are out there that are still relatively young and could get you some prospects in return or July 2nd monies for LA signings… candidate Doug Fister, Jeff Smard ( though he may want 2 or more years), and even Kyle Kendrick..

      1. agree with this. 2016 season is probably the best time to take a flier for bounce back players since they will have spot in the 40-man roster. after 2016 will be a tough one since a lot of good prospect will need protection from rule 5. sign one-year guys then flip for prospects come july — very sound strategy

        1. Just hope signing these type guys prove fruitful like….believe it not Roberto Hernandez did, and his return from the Dodgers.
          This year it did not materialize as planned with Harang, Williams and Billingsley.

          1. Wait our staff next yr may be Nola , Thompson, Eickhoff, Morgan , Asher by the trading deadline. There pretty much done trading unless some one wants Howard. Amaro said there was never a trade market for Harang. We don’t need anymore small signing . By signing Cubans or the LA were signing 17 yr olds or 20 something players. Maybe we get into the Japan pitcher that’s a bold move . I think the phillies are going to making much bolder moves in the future .start thinking big Middleton isn’t going to be lay back and watch and wait.who knows what will happen but it could be a lot different.

    2. I agree, I have thought all along that it would be after the 2016 season that the Phillies would start to spend some money. Andy M. is a careful guy. Free Agency now, is a way of completing a roster, not building one

      1. I only want 1 RF and a chance at a top international pitcher that isn’t breaking the bank. Middleton going to run this alot differently may be much more aggressively.

  24. I agree Romus, I think they are going to use caution with the young Pitchers and get 1 or 2 veterans like you just mentioned. I don’t know that I want to try KK again, but definitely Fister is worth a shot and there are a few more. Frenchy may get a return nod as a PH and part timer and good influence for the kids. I think Nola and Eickoff have jobs, maybe Morgan.

    1. Of course, I wanted them to get something back in July….especially some more money (50%) up to their allocation……but then again after seeing Middleton in action and hearing his words and determination……I do not think he gives two hoots about breaking the threshold and spending…and incurring a penalty.
      A majority of the big market teams have been penalized in the last three years ….but two.
      I assume Houston is now considered big market based on population, but their system has been stacked with 5/6 years of NL Central last place finishes.

  25. My last comments on Amaro…

    The things Amaro gets roasted for are things the Phillies have been doing ever since Giles/Monty bought the team. Trying to always find a bargain, trading prospects for whatever pitcher you can get for as little as possible, usually guys who are over 30, and acting like you’re the smartest person in the room in everything you do. I hope sincerely that Middleton is different but I’m cynical at this point. Amaro should have never traded Cliff Lee, should have traded for Halladay after trading for Lee, and should have re-signed Werth rather than acting like they’d be fine then turning around and overpaying in prospects for Pence. The most unforgivable trade has to be for M Young though. I don’t disagree with his draft strategy. It just didn’t pan out with some of these guys. I do disagree with the lack of spending or spending in international markets but again that’s on Giles/Monty. I’ve always viewed Amaro as a corporate guy and a yes man. That was my worry when they announced him as GM.

    Amaro was tasked with cleaning up Ed Wade’s mess the way Gillick had begun to, and that often goes unnoticed. We had no legit franchise 3B because Wade traded Rolen and no legit CF because he traded Byrd and let NYM sign Beltran. He kept trying to replace Schilling after trading him to no avail, and Gillick had to trade for a closer because Wade let Wagner walk. All of this, along with Wade’s awful drafting and refusal to pay on the international market is what doomed the Phillies and made them have to keep trading for and signing players to fill holes. Imagine if we had signed guys like Felix Hernandez rather than Seattle, for example. Or drafted half the players who went after our picks.

    1. And as for the comments section…. I stopped commenting here because starting with the acquisition of Halladay, “fans” who commented here were so full of themselves and disrespectful/insulting towards anybody who disagreed with them despite the fact that they were far from experts. I suggested letting Werth go without a replacement was stupid and that Dom Brown had never done anything to make anybody think he could easily replace Werth and got insulted like crazy. Funny how those people turned out to be dead wrong about Brown. Would they ever admit that though? Not a chance. I questioned trading so much for Pence, roasted the Young trade, questioned trading Pence for so little less than a full season later, signing Papelbon, and why the Phillies really traded Cliff Lee. I was right on pretty much all of those. I saw the holes in the roster apparently way before most and was insulted for it. Just like now.

      What really made me start seeing sports bloggers in general differently though was when Michael Schwimer had a blog here and a post on the Big Lead prior to their getting bought up basically insulted the crap out of him and disrespected his baseball knowledge because he said Happ’s deception made his fastball seem faster than it was. Here was this professional pitcher taking the time out to talk about another pitcher’s stuff and he gets disrespected like that by some knownothing blogger. I was appalled. Then I saw the same type of nonsense start happening here when James left. That’s why I stopped reading. Luckily jimpeyton took over who has the same “I’m just a blogger and a fan” air about him. That was missing when james and then gregg left. But I’m large part the comments haven’t changed from the disrespectful know-it-all types, and that’s why after fighting the urge to comment and challenge that nonsense for awhile now I finally commented. You can have your opinion all you like but check the disrespect.

  26. On Zito: since I live in the Bay Area I can confirm that the whole time he was on the Giants, the fans were continually disgusted that he was signed so long a term and at such a high price and performed so terribly. Ways were ultimately found to keep him on the roster and get something out of him as a reliever and they’d start him once in a while to fill in for a starter who was on the DL.

    If you talk to a SF Giants fan, he would cuss any time Zito’s name would be mentioned.

    To say that he “helped” them in any believable way would cause choking and unmentionable protests. One of the worst long term contracts given….about as bad as Howard’s contract.

    It is time to sign a free agent when you have a complete measure of just what is missing and THEN go after the one who completes the team. We do not know that yet; we may have fewer needs then but the measures have to be taken first.

    IMO, Thompson and Nola look like they both are capable to head the rotation…and we should add those #1 & 2 in ’16.

    Maybe no help will be needed after all.

    1. Most fans can’t see the forest for the trees. They piled hate on Zito, and because of it piled less of it on the young starters who needed time to figure things out. I’d be disgusted with the signing too but that doesn’t mean I’d be completely right about it. That team was in “win now” mode. If they hadn’t signed Zito, imagine how ugly thing could have gotten for those kids. These are human beings we’re talking here. It can and has ruined many a career.

      Maybe Nola or Thompson can be aces but not next year. That is far too much pressure on young guys.

      1. Zito was one of the worst FA signings of all time. EVER! GM’s dont spend money like that to take pressure off major leaguers. If they can’t handle it, they don’t belong in the there. Have you seen anything from Nola that would lead you to believe he was going to fold under pressure? I have to give you credit, you’re relentless. I thought after reading Art’s comments, it might open your eyes as to how much of a mistake it was by the Giants signing him.

        1. Name the last time a young rotation didn’t fold without a proven ace or veteran to take the attention off of them…. Other than the Mets or the Braves.

          Do you really think it’s a coincidence every single one of those vaunted young rotations failed, whether it be the As, the Orioles, the Mariners, etc? Yet the Giants didn’t. You really think that just “happened to happen”?

          For the last time, I NEVER said they signed him for that reason. Not once. You can put those words in my mouth all you like but I never said them. And I’m not about to back down against people who think I’m wrong entirely based on OPINION.

          1. No, you are wrong based on the FACTS – Zito was, objectively, one of the worst big ticket free agent signings of all time. He should have produced about 25 WAR for that contract and he produced 3 WAR. It was a DISASTER. Stop it already, you keep revealing how little you know and understand about baseball by sticking on this point. The idea that Barry Zito was the reason that the Giants “hung together” is beyond silly – Barry Zito possesses no psychic ability or grand leadership skills that permits him to make other players better when he, himself, *stunk* (edited for content) like hell. STOP IT – the arguments you make are dopey.

          2. No, you are wrong based on the FACTS – Zito was, objectively, one of the worst big ticket free agent signings of all time. He should have produced about 25 WAR for that contract and he produced 3 WAR. It was a DISASTER. Stop it already, you keep revealing how little you know and understand about baseball by sticking on this point. The idea that Barry Zito was the reason that the Giants “hung together” is beyond silly – Barry Zito possesses no psychic ability or grand leadership skills that permits him to make other players better when he, himself, was OBJECTIVELY (not subjectively) dreadful. STOP IT – the arguments you make are dopey.

            1. You’re hilarious really. Your ENTIRE knowledge is based on stats. All of it. Yet you have the nerve to keep telling me I don’t know baseball.

              I could have thrown about a thousand insults your way but I have yet to do that. I could call you a mouthy little punk or a catty little girl making your digs then pretending to be nice, but have I? Nope. I could say you don’t know ANYTHING about baseball outside of stats and thus don’t know anything beyond the box score. But I haven’t.

              So how about this? How about you drop the insults, Sally, and let me express my opinion which is every bit as valid as yours.

          3. TP…..all young players mature on their own…..thru experience of losing at times. There are less paid veterans that are there for ‘guidance’. One reason Francouer may be kept for a few years.

  27. Dan Jennings of the Miami might be coming on as baseball operations. Phillies could sign Latos or Anderson both 28 or 1 vet like a Harden. I still like the Japan pitcher 27 has been good over in Japan.I really have no clue what there going to do.

    1. Nobody is saying it isn’t. That’s what the people throwing insults my way don’t seem to realize. I would bet most of them didn’t follow baseball enough back then to remember the ripples it sent throughout the majors that SF was serious about winning. Zito was considered one of the best pitchers in baseball at the time and a guy who would dominate the NL. When the team failed to live up to expectations, it was put on him rather than the young pitchers, and deservedly so. He did not earn that contract in the slightest. But his being there allowed the young guys to develop without being under added pressure and forced the rest of the league to take the Giants seriously. Even players they signed in free agency. Just his being there was a signal that the Giants were serious about winning. Lincecum and Cain would go on to do the same for Madbum later on. People can say “Players get paid to do this and do that” all the like but those people don’t have the slightest bit of a clue the unbelievable amount of confidence that is needed to play any sport led alone to be a pitcher, led alone an ace pitcher. Most people couldn’t handle any of it led alone being the most important player on the team. Especially not while they were learning the ropes. And I know for a fact that pressure will be on Nola next season and Thompson when he comes up, and on the whole rotation really unless they sign a guy like Price who is a true ace and is capable of taking all of that upon himself. And Price is not Zito.

        1. Oh yeah, like an article written by some sportswriter when he was signed somehow alters his actual ineffectiveness for the 7 years AFTER he was signed. I’m sure you could find 30 article praising the Howard signing too when he was signed. How about the articles panning the Zito signing after he began his contract – they probably outnumber the favorable article 1,000 to 1 – but all of that is irrelevant because he was simply awful. If the Giants had to do it all over again, there is ZERO chance they would sign him to that contract because it turned out to be a colossal waste of money. Zito didn’t one single season where he pitched to the value of that contract – NOT ONE!!!!!

          1. You clearly didn’t read the quotes I pointed out to read or read the article for what it was. That’s fine.

        2. It was a BIG deal when they signed him. He was the top pitcher out there at the time. That’s where it ends. It was a bust, except for a couple of shining moments over 7 years. That’s pathetic. Nobody is asking you to back down. You keep bringing up this pressure thing. Again, what have you seen from Nola so far that you’re basing this on? “I know for a fact”…really? The Phillies won’t be stupid and throw him out front just yet, but it won’t be Price. Maybe they could sign Zito to take the pressure off of Nola. Hamels did pretty good out front of a WS winner at 24. Please don’t say Moyer was there to take the pressure off of him. He got lit up by the Brewers and Dodgers before the WS. That’s enough, I’m done with this.

          1. THE FANS AND THE MEDIA, not the team.

            Moyer, Blanton, Myers were all there taking the heat while Cole was still the promising young pitcher. It’s funny how easy this is, really. Every insult you throw out there with a statement attached I refute and then you go on to the next thing or put words in my mouth.

      1. One other thing…The team didn’t fail, Zito did. They won 2 WS with him on the roster.I wouldn’t consider that a failure,

  28. If we project Nola and Thompson as 2/3, Eflin and Eickhoff as back end SPs, there still needs to be an Ace. Maybe it is Puk, maybe it is a FA signing. Maybe Nola and Thompson end up slotting down a spot. But, I don’t think the FA foray at the high priced table will happen this off season. I do believe, however, that Middleton will be aggressive in accelerating the rebuild.

    1. Matt…Throw Morgan in there if he regains some of the lost velo as a back end guy too. McPhail’s comments would lead you to believe this will be a pitching heavy draft. I really like the Jersey kid. I’m not far from the high school, so I may wander over to catch a peek of him next spring. If they end up at #1, the extra slot money may get them another stud with sign ability issues. Have you seen Puk? Lot of hype on him.

  29. I was really rooting for Asher but I think if he continues to struggle then he starts the year at AAA and Morgan becomes your fifth starter. I guess that leaves enough spots open to sign a mid-rotation veteran now and maybe flip for prospects at the deadline. I still want Price at the top though. It needs to be somebody who would get fans excited and yet come cheap enough that you can flip him at the deadline. Fister to me is a big risk because most of his career he wasn’t really the type of pitcher he got paid to be later on. Kazmir I think will want a lot. So I guess that means the price has to be right for anybody other than Price because they are major liabilities. Maybe Zamarj? That could be interesting.

    1. Fister is a one-year rebound trade chip player.
      He has the pressure of playoffs and WS games behind him.
      He will be determined to get back close to the top echelon again.
      He is still young next season at 32.
      He will not be offered anything he wants on a multi-year contract this off-season.
      If he stays healthy and produces 3WAR, he could bring back a good prospect.
      It is a minimal risk and could be a good payback.

      1. If we can get him on a 1 year deal then I am in complete agreement with you there. It’d be a great risk to take. I just figure he’ll be offered multi-year deals given how thin the market is after the big names.

      2. Sorry Rumos Nats want him back read that 95 trade rumors a while if the Phillies are going to poor again they already have Nola , Eickhoff, Asher, Morgan and possible Latos , Japan pitcher.

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