General Discussion – Day of 7-31-14 – Cold Stove Edition

Weekly Discussion

Things have gone cold…maybe still you could see Bastardo go, since there’s little reason not to deal him with a bullpen crowded with younger, cheaper arms right now. And you never know if Amaro may find the right deal for Byrd or Burnett yet, but I can’t really see much else. Could be wrong, I suppose, but it doesn’t seem like it.

I will say this, I don’t think there’s much to complain about what Amaro is doing right now, though it’s pretty easy to complain about what he’s done in the past that led him here. Feel free to do some of that now. I’d personally like to complain about Ryan Howard’s contract, because as far as I know, no one’s ever mentioned how bad it is, I don’t think. It’s pretty bad, I think. Maybe I’m the only one.

Discuss.

267 thoughts on “General Discussion – Day of 7-31-14 – Cold Stove Edition”

  1. I could be wrong, but I am going to go out on a limb and guess that 88.62% of the comments in this thread will be of a negative variety.

    The only way the situation will get worse is if a tornado comes in and sweeps up man-eating sharks, and dumps them on us.

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    1. So what? The Phillies are a bad major league team and a bad, very poorly managed organization. They are missing trade opportunities. You want and hope to hear only optimistic cheer. There really is no grounds for cheer or optimism at this point in Phillies history. But keep criticizing expressions of reality.

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      1. um, no. simply stating that I thought 88.62% of the comments were going to be negative. And that there might be shark tornadoes.

        try the decaf.

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      3. You’re 100% correct. Amaro is just awful and no GM will ever cut a fair deal with him because they don’t want to be suckered by a fool.

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  2. No, you are not the only one, but because everyone knows its bad what really can be said. It is a lot like the price of gasoline, everyone knows it is high. But, it is what it is.

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    1. You’re wrong. Amaro is just awful and no GM will ever cut a fair deal with him because they don’t want to be suckered by a fool.

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    2. (RAJ proceeds to extend McCutchen through his age-46 season, including escalators dependent upon how long he grows his hair.)

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  4. Agree with Brad about criticizing Amaro too much if nothing much happens today. Of course the contracts he himself negotiated make these guys barely tradeable but there is no reason to compound the mistakes by making bad trades today. Straight salary dumps are fine. So is eating salary for good major league ready prospects. But if it comes down to eating lots of salary for middle of the road prospects, as it appears to be) then what’s the point?

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      1. I admit – I am not too up to speed on the A’s. I wonder if this trade could have any domino impact that could involve the Phillies?

        Do the A’s now need an outfielder?
        Does a team feel more of a need to go after a Lee / Hamels?
        Probably none of the above, but still peaks my curiosity.

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        1. I don’t think the A’s are done. Although they got Gomes back – who can play the OF, they have a surplus of pretty good pitchers – Malone, Jason Hammel – so they will flip one of them to add an OF bat.

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          1. If an improved 2013 Dom Brown had played this season to his full potential,, that fWAR would have spiked up.

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    2. Not a bad haul at all for a 2-month rental in Lester. The comp balance pick could be also a valuable asset.

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      1. Especially if they resign Lester after the season anyway… That is a well run organization.

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    2. Isn’t Cespedes a little bit steep for a 2 month rental? How many years left did he have on his contract? Maybe it’s just me, but this seems like a massive overpay.

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      1. I think it is. But remember, the RSox only have Cespedes under control for 1.5 years. Plus, you can bet that they will try to bring Lester back as a FA.

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      2. The RSox are also getting a competitive balance pick. I understand it adds another $800k to their draft budget for next year. And they’ll be drafting pretty high…

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        1. This is surely in favor of the Red Sox. Getting Cespedes for 1.5 years plus a competitive balance pick is huge. They should have received a top prospect, not an all star who bats clean up.

          And don’t be surprised if Lester boomerangs right back to Bean town in free agency.

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          1. Future Free Agents that are traded are rarely signed by their former team. If I was Lester and won a WS with Oakland then I would ask for the moon-someone will pay me and it probably won’t be the Red Sox.

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    4. Actually, he is. Amaro did similarly to get the Phillies more championships in 2009-2011 with the trades for the great pitching staff. Unfortunately, it didn’t work. Let’s wait and see for Billy Bean.

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  7. Like most, I’d like Amaro to make some deals, but if the going return for guys like Byrd and Burnett is a middling prospect, I can understand the lack of action.

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    1. You’re nuts. Amaro is just awful and no GM will ever cut a fair deal with him because they don’t want to be suckered by a fool.

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  8. Gotta wonder how much Boston getting Cespedes affects the chances of the Phils landing Rusney Castillo now.

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  9. Any chance RAJ could get Josh Bell from the Pirates for Burnett?? Pay Burnett’s salary next year maybe??

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    1. Ahead of Bell in the Pirates OF farm is Meadows, so getting Bell could be a reality. Then there is also Willy Garcia. The Buccos are loaded with OFers..the three curretn are there to stay for a long time…and is Jose Tabata still around?

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      1. There was a Garcia for Burnett rumor, hold up was cash, if the rumor was valid at all. But someone earlier, mentioned no need to make a bad trade, and my question is, how can there be a bad trade for Burnett? Anything that you get is at least a chance to hope. Who needs him next year at 12.5Mill? Anything for Bastardo is something else to hope on. The only possible bad trade would be a Lee/Hamels trade that gets a duplicate of the last Lee trade.

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        1. Yeah I’m not sure there is a bad trade of Burnett unless you too much money somewhat negating the salary relief benefit (I’m of course assuming you aren’t going to get much value back)

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  10. most untradeable team ever. can’t see anything of significance getting done. THey aren’t trading Cole. Nobody wants Lee, Howard, AJ. Maybe we can deal Byrd or Revere.

    The game really is wait it out for 2 years, hope by then we have some youth in the majors (Crawford, Franco, Nola, Imhof?).. add some good free agents and hope for the best.

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    2. You’re not smart. Amaro is just awful and no GM will ever cut a fair deal with him because they don’t want to be suckered by a fool.

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  12. I may be in the minorirty here but I think I wouldv’e prefered prospects for Lester instead of Cespdes. Over last two years Cespedes has better .248 with a 24% strikeout rate with an avg of 27 hrs and 90 rbis a bb rate of 6.4% and an ops of .752. All of this is assuming he keeps up his averages for the year. He might be a great outfielder, but the premium is but on an exaggerated bat. SInce the league has adjusted for him hes been average with the bat at a power premium position.

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    2. Boston must feel they have a really good shot at bringing Lester back. No way Oakland Pays him that kind of coin.

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    3. Boston should be competitive next year. They’re obviously much better off in the near-term than we are. Cespedes makes sense for them, especially if they’re not comfortable making a long term commitment to Lester.

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    4. I agree, however the man is going from the Oakland Colessium to cozy Fenway Park. Ask Jim Rixpce if he liked hitting there.

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      1. Ces won the HR Derby a few weeks ago….the Green Monster all of a sudden must look appetizing to him.

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  13. According to mlbtraderumors the A’s are sending Milone to the Twins for Sam Fuld. I do not understand this trade. I would think they could have gotten more for Milone.

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    2. Also If Boston plays Cespedes in LF it will be fun seeing the highlights of him throwing out guys, especially from balls that hit off the monster.

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  14. At this point, there’s no harm in holding your poker hand until 8/31 and see if anyone folds. The big thing that the Phillies will hopefully acquire is not players but bad contract/debt relief. Might set up other moves later–like outbidding other teams on Castillo.

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    1. This. Salary dumps are beneficial. It’s eating a lot of salary for anything other than advanced prospects that doesn’t make sense

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  17. I hope the Phillies remain silent as the trade deadline passes. This team can compete as it’s currently constructed. We have Rollins, Utley and Ruiz up the middle. With Ashe / Franco at third, Byrd in right and the continued development of Revere, Brown and Ruf. We need another quality starter and Howard has to have a better approach at the plate,which I Am sure after a good off season of conditioning he will bounce back. I say give this core another chance at glory.

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      1. Yes it is obviously a Joke read his name “Mr A” sound familiar no worries it took me a second to figure it out too I even gave you a thumbs up

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      1. Mr. A is right on the $. Just sign Lester and Shields as free agents, Sign the Cuban outfielder, and watch Dom continue his tremendous development! All you naysayers are wrong.

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  18. I would rather have no deals done today over pure salary dumps. Salary dumps will not help the Phillies rebuild at all

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  19. I think I go with salary dumps, just because it is a change of pace for the organization. We’ve all known that this team has no future for at least 3 years now and there has been no change of approach. Dumping salary and these awful contracts means that the team will at least have more flexibility.

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    1. Flexibility for what? What free agents are going to help this team in the future? The only thing that’s going to help this rebuild is young controllable talent, not pure salary dumps

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      1. To be a different team than the one that we have seen flounder recently. If you want to rebuild, you have to get rid of the old and revamp your image. This team needs a new approach–one that isn’t hindered by a commitment to aging, ridiculously expensive, low WAR players. They are not going to compete anytime soon, so any deviation from the status quo will help the organization turn over. More dollars to spend gives them more creativity to do things like make a big splash in the international market.

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  20. I understand having an extremely high asking price for a guy like Hamels, but not for many other on our roster. Apparently the asking price for Byrd is extremely high and I don’t get it. If he was younger than yeah, but he is old. I am not saying we should give him away, but if all these executives are saying that Ruben is asking way too much for Bryd maybe you lower expectations a tad and get a deal done. If he was a rental or only had one more year that would help in trading him, but the option is taking teams out of the mix for him. Byrd has value , but it is limited because of his deal. At this point I think if you’re Ruben you get off your high horse and accept a lesser deal that would be fair and realistic for Byrd and stop trying to restock the farm in one move.

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    1. Personally, I don’t want the guy running my team to be the one who blinks in a negotiation. You’re acting on the assumption that other GMs aren’t lowballing Amaro — which they likely are. Hold the line: if they really want one of the Phillies trade chips, they’ll up their offer and start the negotiation.

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      1. There’s not reason to believe they are low-balling RAJ. That’s just making an excuse for him and turning incompetence into heroic brilliance. The natural assumption is that other GMs will be happy to make a deal that helps their team. They are dealing with other teams. If there is something about RAJ that has him uniquely singled out to receive only low-ball offers, then that is an even stronger indictment of the guy than the already proven incompetence.

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        1. If the prospects were there, the deals would get done. It’s not as if RAJ has never executed a trade before.

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          1. We’ve seen the deals he gets done…and they are bad

            Pence for basically nothing although I will say if Joseph didn’t have so many injuries maybe he would be in the bigs by now

            Lee for absolutely nothing. I’m pretty sure Gillies got in trouble for using coke, but I could be wrong. I believe he was suspended and in trouble numerous times. Hard to believe scouts wouldn’t know what kind of person a player is.

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            1. Yet you want him to settle for less than he’s asking now. Maybe he got burned by settling in those past deals and has decided to be more vigilant when dealing?

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          2. I don’t think he’s being more vigilant now. I think he is just trying to get a big return for players like Byrd to make up for other bad moves hes made.

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            1. Trying to get a big return for a good defensive RF with 20 HR is being vigilant. We can go around and around on this, but here’s my bottom line: If you don’t like the prospects being offered now, then don’t trade him. Let other teams now that there is no gun to your head with regards to dumping salary. Then try to make a waiver deal. If that doesn’t happen? Oh well. Its not like Byrd is holding back some hot prospect’s development in RF.

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            2. True. Byrd is not bringing in a MLB ready prospect. That is just not happening. Age and contract length are the problems with all of the guys the Phillies want to trade with the exception of Hamels.

              You are not getting a MLB ready prospect for a 35+ player.

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            3. If your assumption is true David, then why bother holding on to him?

              He’s not going to get you anything more in the off season than he is now. Wouldn’t a salary dump be the better option? Open up some money for an international FA or something. They have no reason to hold on to him at this point.

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          3. YOu assume it’s the quality of prospects that is the problem. Likelier it is the quantity of future $$$ that RAJ wants the acquiring team to assume.

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            1. Amaro has already gone on record that money isn’t the issue and they’re willing to include money for better prospects. So yes, that’s my assumption. Of course, neither of us are in the room, are we?

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        3. Allentown, how can make such a statement unless you have first hand knowledge? I agree with Mike in that they probably were lowballing the Phillies because they wanted to make a trade but it should be fair for both sides.

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          1. Probably because if he was NOT getting low ball offers, then there would be a trade to be made! And if he is getting low ball offers, it can only be one of 2 things:
            1) Teams think that he’s easy to get over on
            2) That’s the true value of the players we have, which ties directly to the contracts HE gave.

            I personally believe RAJ is clueless when it comes to personel on ANY level. Other teams value prospects too much? WAKE UP you idiot, that’s mostly across all of baseball! Teams are trying to keep and lock up most of their young players! Thus a declining value in free agency.

            Pay attention to the media, this organization is getting CRUSHED nationwide. But I guess everyone else is wrong and RAJ deserves the benefit of doubt? Give me a break. How can fans not be offended by the way this team is ran?

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      2. If teams are lowballing and Amaro is asking for the world then wouldn’t common sense be to meet somewhere in the middle for just a fair deal. I agree that a GM should hold of and try to get the other team to up their offer, but if Ruben is telling people we want no less then this for Byrd then negotiating won’t happen because teams will just pass. I am all for getting something in good in return for Byrd, but Ruben needs to be realistic. Byrd doesn’t help the phillies this year or next year or even the year after that if the option takes place. He needs to go to a contender. We might win a few more games with him but woop dee doo. This team is not close to contending so holding onto him is stupid. IMO you can’t get a fair offer for Byrd if you are not willing to negotiate, it takes two to tango! and apparently Ruben has two left feet.

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          1. The problem is IMO Ruben is not gonna try and meet near the middle (obviously you always try to get the better end of the deal) and he will just hold on to Byrd

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            1. What’s the point of trading Byrd if he isn’t going to bring back a player who at least has a chance to contribute in the future? They don’t need more organizational filler. They need future major leaguers.

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      3. I like the fact that RAJ is asking for the moon for Hamels. With the additions of Lester to the A’s, Lackey and Masterson to the Cards, it is time for the Dodgers to pony up some prospects, whether it be the mother lode for Hamels, or a lesser package for Lee in August.

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  21. Everyone needs to know that Amaro is just awful. No GM will ever cut a fair deal with him because they don’t want to be suckered by a fool.

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  22. Man..I woke up this morning and I saw an update from my Fanzo app that said Utley and revere to the giants for 2 pitching prospects, but I haven’t seen that anywhere else in the internet universe so I guess maybe it was just a twitter prediction.

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  23. Ruben apparently asked Seattle for three good prospects for Byrd and told them to pick two.

    Simply ask yourself would you trade any of our good prospects for anyone on our roster other than Cole Hamels? I know I wouldn’t. Not with those contracts.

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      1. Nowhere has it been reported that the Phillies asked for 2 top prospects for Revere. The report from Heyman said “good prospects”. So if the list of three included a 4, 5, and 15 we aren’t even talking top 100 prospects. Wait. Byrd reportedly traded to Yankees, so this discussion is rendered moot.

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    2. What was he supposed to ask for? Phillipe Aumont, JC Ramirez, and Tyson Gillies? It’s a negotiation. The M’s are desperate for hitting, and Byrd is probably the best hitter on the market, despite his age and contract situation. I don’t agree with the idea that it’s better to get something for our veterans than not to trade them at all. If he’s not going to get a useful prospect in return, why trade him at all?

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      1. Because we have absolutely no use for them and it at least signals a change in direction.

        What are we going tot take another shot at winning it all with these guys next year? He’s set prices for EVERY player on this roster that NOBODY will pay.

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        1. They don’t have anyone in the minors that is ready to be called up and fill in for these guys. And there aren’t going to be any free agents available in the offseason who will increase the team’s chances of winning next year. So what does it matter if they’re on the team next year or not? They’re not going to be winning anything next year either way. Change for the sake of change is pointless. You want him to basically give these guys away so they can go help some other team win? Why?

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          1. Exactly. They’re not winning anything next year so who cares who fills in for those guys?

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          2. We are staring at 93 losses this year and probably more next year. This team is not going to jump up by 20+ wins.

            Chances are the guys you sign will do just as well as the guys we have and in the end we lose 90+ games.

            The key is that you have salary flexibility. Next season we have $129 million committed to 9 guys. How do you improve your roster?

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      2. If we got back an mlb ready player and 2 prospects why not do the deal. You would be swapping an old player with a younger player who can contribute in the future and get a couple prospects in return. At least the prospects have a chance to help in the future, Byrd does not. If you get an everyday player or pitcher as the main part of the deal even if only one of the prospects makes it to the majors as even a bench player you still improve. You got rid of an older player with a not so great contract for a younger player who will contribute and possibly fill a hole on the bench. Who knows maybe one of the prospects turns out to be good and turns into a 3-4-5 starter or bullpen arm or everyday position player. What do we have to lose. If we get rid of some guys and fill the holes within maybe we don’t miss out on a guy like Moss.

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    1. Of course we can — 4 games out of every 10, just a little worse than we’ve done last year and this year. Your reasoning for why we can significantly improve upon the results of the past two seasons with a two-year older core and supporting staff….?

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      1. …Why? Those dudes have been worth a total of 9 WAR over 3 years and they aren’t exactly young prospects.

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        1. Because they’re cheap young players that fill a need in 2015 and 2016. Nobody’s going to trade a top prospect for Cliff Lee.

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            1. and he’s under control through his prime at a cheap rate.

              He’s also a buy low that could be flipped for better prospects at a later date.

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            2. He’s under contract for 3 more years at Marlon Byrd money. Maybe he’ll turn it around, but this year he hasn’t been the player he was the last couple years. Did I mention he’s already 30?

              And Kelly is a 5th starter. We have no shortage of those.

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  26. I don’t think it is a case of low balling or RAJ being ridiculous in his demands. If you are talking about Byrd for instance and Seattle a place on his no trade list then the issue is how much money the Phillies send back and if you are sending money back then the prospect grade must be equivalent otherwise whats the point.

    They should see if they can engage a team not on his no trade list and send some money but not have to guarantee the option.

    Same deal for Burnett

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  28. Apparently the rumor now is that Price will be traded, and the Dodgers and Mariners are in the lead. If the Dodgers get him, it’ll be interesting to see what they give up…

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  33. Fake Joel Sherman account tweets, real Jim Bowden takes the info and uses it without attribution. Gets burned, deletes account, some dude, possibly named Jim Bowden, squats on account, changes handle. Now watch Bowden say it wasn’t him at all.

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  34. Given the current state of the Phillies, the current state of the farm system and the changing free-agent market, it will take a magician to turn this team around anytime soon. Add to that the ineptitude of RAJ at trading players for prospects and I expect an extended period of bad baseball from the Phillies (at least three more years) with no guarantee of success after that. I certainly would like to be wrong about this!

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    1. And don’t forget…the competition ..the Nats and Braves are young and just starting to to dominant in the NL. The Mets got the young arms and the Marlins may surprise soon.
      So it is a long climb.

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    2. It’s really, really bad and it’s giving me a headache. I feel like the team is where the Sixers were about two years ago but with no forward-thinking ownership. And that’s what gets me the most angry – that, even if they fire Ruben, I have ZERO confidence that his replacement will be any better (sort of like replacing Charlie with Ryne Sandberg – was that progress? Maybe, but it’s negligible). What horrible, crying shame. Economically, all the pieces are there for this to, again, become one of the flagship teams in major league baseball, but the old fashioned, outdated and stubborn ways of the owners and their charges make it appear that the success will not arrive soon and when it does it will, as with past great Phillies teams, it will just be another passing phase before the team sinks back into the muck. I am SICK OF IT!

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    3. SIFPA you are a genius! Anybody know any good magicians? Maybe They sign David Blaine! Most likely our team would still be lousy, but with Blaine at least he could give us all the illusion that they were good.

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    4. You should read Matt Winkleman’s articles on his site as the minor league talent is good at the lower levels but not at Reading or Allentown. This talent will be coming up in 2-3 years. I will say again that nothing is as bleak or rosy as it seems.

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  35. I am holding onto a glimmer of hope that one of the teams that has missed out on Lester and Price (who appears to be just about traded) will make Ruben a good offer on Hamels.

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  36. Before the season, Amaro said, we are a good team unless I am delusional. Now, he is delusional in thinking what he is willing to trade is worth anything!

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  37. The Yankees and Cardinals are the two teams seriously trying to trade for Byrd. I have this from good info. Mock me if you want , I know how ridiculous it is to post this on a website and expect to be taken seriously.

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    1. No, I am hoping that you are right! I will pretend that anyone they get is going to be good! It beats how I feel now.

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  38. Mariners not trading Paxton, Tigers refusing to trade Smyly…its getting ridiculous how much these teams overvalue their guys. Those guys are fine arms, but those are not guys who should be the reason deals dont happen.

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  41. Guys, Amaro is the problem. A soon as he goes will be clean up his mess and move forward.

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  42. I wouldn’t get too upset. If phillies have no trade partners…wait until Aug 30 deadline and if there are still no trade partners….wait until the off-season. This team will be purged and then its a waiting game until Nola, Crawford, etc starting making it to the majors.

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      2. Burnett for sure. Whoever claims him is on the hook for over $20 million. Between now and the end of next season, he costs almost as much as Hamels.

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  45. may take a new GM to trade Howard, Lee, etc. If Amaro does it, espescially eating salary he is admitting his mistake. A new one would have the power to make radical changes= clean sweep

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    1. From Justin Klugh of philly.com:
      The Yankees, per New York Post baseball writer Joel Sherman, aren’t putting together anything “huge” for the deadline, but do have an eye on Byrd. They are reportedly discouraged by his vesting option in 2016, and according to Jon Heyman of CBS, they also seem to have issues with whether or not Byrd’s “personality” would fit in their clubhouse. Heyman did not specify what exactly the Yankees would have a problem with in regards to Byrd’s personality, which has never been an issue during his reunion with the Phillies.
      http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/Yankees_do_some_Byrd-watching_as_deadline_nears.html#PwclgsYceq7FvHy8.99

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  48. For not even one player to move on a team like this is utterly incomprehensible. I have no idea what others are offering but, with very minor exceptions, most (but not all) of the possible trades would be worthwhile just to get some salary relief and clear the decks for new players. Perhaps we will see some trades in August. To say that this process has been frustrating is a huge understatement. Unfortunately, Ruben has not been able to find another general manager trade partner as foolish as Ruben himself.

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    2. Couldn’t agree more catch. Would add that the notion of our players having too much in terms of salary commitments is ridiculous. Eat money if it allows a deal to happen. I’m sure Ruben think there’s an outside chance that were competitive next year. Freakin buffoon he is

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      1. He’s not that stupid. The owners have decided that they will make more money by pretending to compete again next year. Even after the past two years, some fans will buy into that.

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  49. SoO Price a tiger. Wow.
    If you told me Price vs Lester matchup in Sept was an AL East big game I would believe it…now it is a A’s-Tiger matchup

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    1. Surprised that Tampa got such a low return for David Price. I would hate to be a Tampa fan continually trading your stars and only getting close to a WS.

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      1. Price arb elig next season, FA in 2916…Tampa is hesitant is giving out the $$$$. Of course Longoria is one exception and even then they get a good value on that contract..

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  50. Baseball Betsy had this statement on the Twitter. Made me smile:

    Why do I have visions of Ruben Amaro sitting under his desk playing with his matchbox cars as the deadline approaches?

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  51. Matt Gelb ‏@MattGelb 16s
    The Phillies, according to a club source, did not make a trade.

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  57. Well to be honest. The 2012 Red Sox had their salary dump in August that year of Gonzalez, Crawford, Beckett, etc. after not making a deadline deal. I think we have to be glass half full here and hope that is what happens. I guess it wouldn’t hurt to hold on to them for two more weeks or until the offseason. What do we have to lose? Lee will get presumably healthier, openings will emerge for players like Byrd and Papelbon, and maybe we can find buyers for a Burnett or Howard. Things will work themselves out and hopefully this team makes some big splashes in the offseason… or maybe we rattle off 7-8 wins in a row and get back into somewhat of contention and hope that MAG, Franco, and Co. can come up and provide some excitement…

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    1. Yes, they truly are that idiotic and who is the anonymous thumbs-downer who believes they can compete next year?

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    2. I saw that and Stark was not being sarcastic! This is unbelievable, but explains that the delusions start at the top of the organization.

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    4. Why wait until next year? The front office doesn’t think we can compete this year too?

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  61. How hard is this to figure out. Hamels could bring back the most, then Utley, maybe Rollins after that. The rest would have been moves to clear payroll and rebuild/retool, give the fans some hope. Today was bad. I guess if you are going to trade Hamels you should get a new GM to make the move.

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  62. RAJ is bad, but the root of the problem truly is the owners. RAJ can be fired and likely nothing changes.

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  63. Billy Beane didn’t play, in the truest sense, ‘money ball’ today. But he took a risk. Good for him.
    Lester should get him to the AL Championship series.

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  66. I was watching mlb when the trade for price was made I have to admit I know nothing of the players, so I looked them up. When the trade was first made the they talked like Jackson was Willie mays, he is a 275 hitter with little power, nice player but not the great player they were talking about. I like to ask one question was there a better bat available then Byrd? Only one imo might be craig. but he is in a down year, so how doesn’t amaro get anything of value for power hitter who has 41 homeruns in last year, between ny and here? if he was willing to eat money?? makes no sense.

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    1. For whatever reason, teams were scared off by his age and his contract. He was easily the best bat available. But seems like teams wanted him only as a rental. I also read somewhere that some teams (Yankees in particular) weren’t sure how he’d fit in with the clubhouse, which I don’t understand. He always seemed benign to me.

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      1. I really find it hard to believe the Yankees were scared off by the option year, at 8 million. Second could he be any worse than a rod in clubhouse??

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        1. I agree, but that’s the explanation that’s out there, anyway. It’s almost like teams don’t believe that he keep playing at this level. I mean, he’s playing better now (and last year) than he ever has in his career. Maybe they think he’s still on the juice. Who knows.

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  68. David if ruben was willing to eat money then were is the contract problem??? two years 16 million for a power bat, who is showing no signs of slowing down. cant buy your argument.

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    1. We don’t know the truth of what he offered or how much he was willing to eat. The fact remains that the option years were dumb when they were given, and the GM has not an awful job. Why the dramatic attendance loss does not seem to bother the ownership is really an issue. Maybe a drop under 2Million will do it.

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      1. David that is with most players. Did anyone think uggla would stop hitting when he went to braves?? There are no guaranteeds. Did you think Qualls would be a good closer for Houston?? when he stunk here. I Watch miller pitch a lot, now he is a great loogy, who knew that. Did anyone really know how good moss would become at older age.

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        1. The problem with the Moss situation was that the year he went to oakland was the year we needed a left handed bat off the bench. Instead of giving Moss a chance we acquired John Bowker who went 0-13 I believe before they got rid of him. I will never understand why they didn’t give him a shot, especially because they would’ve filled a need internally.

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  69. anonymous. just read the money this team gets in 2016 from Comcast. and you will see why they don’t care.

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    1. I don’t know how the deal works, but over a Million lost customers a year has to reflect in less people watching on TV. Isn’t a good deal of the Comcast $ tied to viewership and ratings? And a drop to 2 Million in attendance has to cost the team $50-60 Million.

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      1. Somewhat tied to ratings. They get a guaranteed amount which is far far more than they get now, then they get a piece of the advertising sales. The latter figure would come down if ratings a suffer but they are still making out like bandits if it does

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  70. Plain and simple, Amaro botched the trade deadline.

    There is just too much conflicting information coming out to indicate otherwise.

    The only logical explanation is that Amaro is done at the end of the year and ownership did not want him making any bad deals.

    But with the advisors on staff even that argument has a lot of holes.

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    1. Ruben said the other GM’s were not ‘aggresive’.
      Reports form other sources said Ruben was asking too much for Byrd, Burnett and Bastardo.

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      1. He blamed the other teams. What a joke. Called Byrd one of the most productive RH bats in the game. Very surprised teams did not “step up” for him. If we were making a Saturday Night Live skit, we would not have to make up the material!

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    2. Add to that he botched last year (2013 – getting nothing), 2012 (Trading Pence for very little return) and 2011 (overpaying for Pence). 4 years in a row is more than a trend 🙂 Spectacular suckage!

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    3. I just think that he botched it (and yes I agree that he did, though not to the extent that people here are arguing) by having the same inflated sense of the trade value of his veterans as a certain large fantasy driven contingent around here had – and some of those people are the most vociferous critics today.

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      1. And once again failing to appreciate the value of prospects (or other teams’ valuation of their own prospects as evidenced by his comments tonight). Again misreading a major current trend in baseball.

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  71. We all now need to turn our attention to Bob Ford and some of the other Philly writers who are complicit in protecting Amaro. It is clear any sane and rational person knows this guy is by far the worst GM in baseball. So much so that others GMs don’t even want to deal with him anymore.

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    1. Mont – are you being facetious? This team will be worse next year as 75% of their already aged roster is a year older. The offense will be worse and the pitching will be significantly worse. The only potential bright spot will be the pen, and of course they’ll be over-used given the lack of starting pitching. Perhaps a few years of Top 5 draft picks of the collegiate variety will help us be competitive come 2017.

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    2. This team was already washed up 2 years ago. They waited too long to trade the guys(Lee,Papelbon) who could have brought them top young prospects to rebuild this horrendous farm system. Now we will be one of the worst teams for the next 5-10 years. This teams management is pathetic. The majority of their fans could see this day coming 2 years ago but management kept having the false hope that somehow this team had another run in them. Let the suffering begin.

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  73. Calling all true phillies fans who aren’t stupid and aren’t going to drink the Kool Aid- we must put a stop to this madness called Amaro. We must email anybody and everybody to put pressure on the Phils to fire this idiot GM.

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    1. They’ll get some of the worst press they’ve ever seen in the coming days. I wouldn’t be surprised if it influences their decision on Amaro

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      1. It’s already started mds. I’m a regular listener to MLB on Sirius and numerous commentators have been pounding Amaro since yesterday. They were laughing today when the deadline came and went. Literally laughing.

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  76. One poster said this above, but I feel like the only thing that the Yankees could have meant about Byrd (without saying it) is that they fear he is still on the juice…interesting, you never know who knows who. That was the first thing that came to mind

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  77. No new toys under the trade deadline tree…and the step dad of a GM is drunk and hurting mom again. This Philly kid is sad.

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  78. Looked up rube in the dictionary. Saw a picture of our gm with a caption that read, ‘enough said’.

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  80. In Aug do prospects have to clear waivers as well? I didn’t think they needed to but I’m listening to the fanatic and they are saying “RAJ won’t get any prospects back in August bc they won’t clear waivers”.

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    1. Cliff Lee hurt, no trading him in August. A shame, I am a big Lee fan, but last year at the August waivers they could have traded him to the Dodgers.

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  81. The events of the day illustrates the importance of this site. The only way that this thing will turn around is development from within. You can’t depend on getting good young players from other teams. The discussion here keeps us informed about what is coming through the system. The farm system will turn around-the team will be picking at or near the top of the draft for the next few seasons. This site will help all of us keep tabs on it.

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  82. Here we go most vets are now going to Come up with a injury. Make pap a start or make him close from the 7th . this way we get to see Giles close in sept. Put Howard in the outfield love to see that. Bring up Franco let play 3rd.Asche moves to of . Buchanan comes up so does Dugan .

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  84. Teams conducting one or more trades the past week or so. Keep in mind that many experts predicted the Phillies to be one of the most actives teams leading up to the deadline.

    Tigers
    Rays
    Mariners
    Marlins
    Astros
    Braves
    Cubs
    Yankees
    Red Sox
    Nationals
    Diamondbacks
    Indians
    Athletics
    Orioles
    Cardinals
    Brewers
    Twins
    Cardinals
    Dodgers
    Royals
    Blue Jays
    Giants
    Padres
    Rockies
    Rangers
    Angels

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    1. Steve, you do know that trades can still be done in August-don’t you? Trades should be much easier in the offseason as the contracts end in 2015 and 2016.

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      1. Of course I do philabalt. It surely wasn’t te point of my post though. They can also make trades his off-season. What I was illustrating was that the Phillies were expected to be active, should have been active, but chose not to. 26 other teams found a way to get at least one deal done. 26.

        And since your brought it up; Lee was by far the one player with the greatest chance of being traded after passin through waivers. Unfortunately that’s no longer the case. Maybe we still see some deals this month. Given many of the salary commitments I expect most of our exposed player to pass through waivers without a claim.

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        1. Steve, I don’t know about you but if someone is going to pay me 20-50% of the players value I would pass too. The best analogy I saw was that the Phillies have painted themselves into a corner and the best thing to do is wait for the paint to dry unless they are blown away with a deal. If we don’t get the deal we want then continue to stockpile talent at the minor levels as they will progress up to MLB in 2-3 years and the only big contract could be Hamels.

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  85. What we as Phillies fans would not give to know the behind the scenes details on some items, such as:

    1) Who was the driving force behind the Howard 5/$125MM contract? Was it ownership telling RAJ what to do, or was RAJ helping steer this decision? (certainly with the $$, ownership had to buy in, but were they the driving force is what I would really be keen on knowing)

    2) With the Lee injury, I think back to 2 seasons ago. As I recall, the Dodgers claimed him on waivers. As rumor has it – at least as I recall it – the Phillies had no real intent on trading him, and pulled him back. A few days later, The Dodgers took a bunch of dead money off the Red Sox books, and one year later the Red Sox won the WS. I would really like to know what happened behind the scenes, and could the Phillies have convinced the Dodgers to take on any of the Howard dead money?

    so, how many days until the next draft? Any news on the Cuban? Enrico Palatzo.

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  86. I, m pulling for Revere for batting champ. Hamels for Cy Young and Chase for Mvp. Sizemore as comeback player I’d like to keep Sizemore and sign the Cuban player for next yr. Rotate Revere D Brown . Rotation Hamels, Lester, Ian Kennedy, Nola, Buchanan.

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    1. Unless they have a SERIOUS salary dump, they aren’t signing Lester and Kennedy. And NO WAY that Nola starts 2015 with the big club.

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    2. Has anyone noticed how Chase is slowly fading and Rollins is slowly rising? Rollin’s is going to have better season plus he has drawn 12 more walks!

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      1. When Bill Conlin is/was your biggest cheerleader………….. not a good thing. Just sayin’

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  91. All the right words by Ruben last night:
    “I don’t see a scenario right now where our roster is going to be the same roster in April that it is right now,” Amaro said Thursday after baseball’s non-waiver trade deadline expired without the Phillies making a single move. “It will change. It will need to change because we need to get better……….”One of the benefits of what we did with the contract with Comcast was it gives us the ability to do that,” Amaro said. “I’ve always had [financial] support from David and the ownership group. That’s one of the benefits of being in our marketplace. We’ve been more aggressive in [the international market]. That may be part of it……”I think we have the financial flexibility to be there and do those things, and we want to stay aggressive. It may be the only way to really separate yourself as far as being able to acquire talent because the draft is getting leaner and leaner. Signing international players out of the Dominican and Mexico and other places is becoming more and more challenging. So Cuba, Japan, other places, we have to stay aggressive there.”

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    1. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah…..That’s all I hear when he talks anymore. You don’t actually believe a word he says do you? The draft is getting leaner? Probably because you just SUCK at getting the right players and actually developing them!
      -Chris

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    2. Based on these comments, I wouldn’t be surprised to hear the Phils have signed that Cuban outfielder next week.

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  92. Set a fix on the next to last place team & go. Fix the home record. Howard, Rollins and Utley have been known to have big Augusts, Revere is already starting to flame, Hit Brown in the head with an anvil and knock some sense into him, Chooch will sprout wings and take off, Byrd will also sprout wings and fly. Losing Lee is tough but Buchanan’s ready to pick him up. Hamels is pitching well. Hernandez is doing the same thing. Burnett can pitch and hopefully his injury won’t pain him too much. Kendrick is Kendrick. The bullpen, if used well, can hold leads.

    If all these things happen, the Phils might be .500 and that would be all for naught. If they continue to play like they have all year, they’ll get the #6 or better draft pick. Which do you want? It’s weird for me to root for my team to lose. It just doesn’t feel right but being a PhuturePhilies fan means wanting that high draft pick.

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