Minor League Workout Groups 3-20

This morning Jay Floyd posted the new minor league workout groups up on Phoulballz.

Here is the list (cleaner list picture taken by Baseball Betsy):

3/20 Workout Groups Baseball Betsy
Quick Thoughts:

  • A lot of shifting down because of the camp demotions
  • Brody Colvin is still in Group 1
  • I think there is a very legitimate chance that Tocci goes to Clearwater
  • Cuts were posted earlier this week, and it appears they are going to need to make more to have valid rosters

About Matt Winkelman

Matt is originally from Mt. Holly, NJ, but after a 4 year side track to Cleveland for college he now resides in Madison, WI. His work has previously appeared on Phuture Phillies and The Good Phight. You can read his work at Phillies Minor Thoughts

47 thoughts on “Minor League Workout Groups 3-20

    1. I would not be completely surprised, but I think it’s A+ for him to start no matter what. They won’t push him for the sake of filling the roster spot.

    2. Anyone want to take bets on how long it will take before the Phillies move Quinn to centfield or second base? Probably within the year I would think.

      1. My opinion is as soon as he is cleared for play. If things happen in the draft as they should and they wind up taking another SS then I see him going back to CF for sure.

  1. Hiciano hanging on to a spot in Group 3 is kind of nice. He’s 20 already – while not necessarily old for A-, hanging at A+ would really give him a chance to boost his stock. Lots of OFers to move around still, so we’ll see. Like Matt said above, Tocci is also still in that group, and if he’s ready for A+, there’s no way they hold him back.

  2. Tocci was over matched at Lakewood why would they start him CLW? I agreed with starting him in LKW last season but they should have sent him down to WPT once that season started.

    You can’t allow hype to trump performance. Granted the experience should prove to be invaluable but remaining in age appropriate levels will be better for his long term development.

    1. It’s not hype trumping performance, it’s where will he be challenged enough to develop fastest. Looking at a season of results versus scouting his development is not the best way to approach someone like Tocci, who was one of the youngest guys in his league and would be again in FSL. It’s whether he’s making progress and not having career-derailing setbacks.

      1. So would you consider last season progress? I’m not trying to be funny or disrespectful just asking…

        I say it is hype trumping performance because any other player that put up that line would have been sent down a level. In the quick thoughts you made the statement that there is a legit chance he starts in CLW I’m trying to talk you down off of that ledge.

        1. Scouting we have seen says he held his own last year – did not look overmatched, and is absolutely ready to play the field at higher levels. The question is whether the team thinks he passed the level, or more specifically, if with where he is right now after a winter off and conditioning and working on his game, would his potential to progress be hindered by starting at CLR.

          I wouldn’t want to assume anything based on workgroups, and I don’t disagree with Matt (he made the the initial statement, btw, not me), that there is a “legitimate chance” he goes to CLR. It’s not set, but it’s not outrageous either.

          The team handled Freddy Galvis in much the same way, promoting him despite bad offensive performance, and eventually gave him a chance to repeat a level at AA. That winter before that repeat year is when they held him out of winter ball to do conditioning, add weight, etc., preceding the year where he finally seemed to turn the corner with the bat. Would holding him back two years earlier at LKW have allowed him to progress in much the same way he eventually did? Hard to say, but it worked out for the team in the end, as Galvis jumped to AAA at season’s end and made the bigs after 5 MiLB years anyway.

    2. Let’s start from the top Tocci was not overmatched in Lakewood. He was able to square up the ball, but his strength limitations caused the ball to not go far.

      It doesn’t matter what level he plays at, the ball is not going to go any farther. His numbers will look worst at higher levels to do a low BABIP driven by better fielders, but what Tocci can do isn’t going to change whether he plays in Lakewood or Clearwater. And so you send him up a level to work on facing better pitchers and making good contact off of them, of playing the OF against people who hit the ball harder.

      On top of that, Greene, Cozens, Tromp, and Hiciano are all slated for Lakewood. Tocci is easily better than all of them as a prospect, he also is the most able to handle a jump to the next level. Currently the Clearwater CF is probably Brian Pointer.

      1. I don’t know Matt I think there is a hole in that logic. The dimensions of the field don’t change and if you go off the short season stats from the season before I say he was over matched. I think you are being coy when you try and say the fielding is better when you know the real truth is its the pitching that is exponentially better.

        Also strength is part of being over matched isn’t it? I mean they don’t put 200LB fighters in the ring with 160LB fighters.

        Easily better? Are you in Colorado right now? Easily better than Tromp but not the other three not today.

        But that’s not the debate it’s where should he start the season in your own opinion?

        1. There is a difference in being overmatched in terms of strength versus skill. Scouting reports indicate that, skill-wise, he was not overmatched. His underlying stats were not much different in Lakewood than they were the previous year in the GCL until late in the year when he likely got worn down.

          Whether or not he’s overmatched strength-wise won’t change if he’s in A+ or A. But if his skills are developed enough to hit in Clearwater, you’re not doing him any favors by playing him in Lakewood unless you think he needs the confidence boost.

        2. Hey, so does Tocci really qualify as a “hyped” prospect in any forum besides this one? I mean, most places I’ve seen him written about suggest that he’s a defensively polished player in his teens who needs to fill out. Is anyone out there–even his biggest fans on this site–suggesting anything otherwise? I get your point about saying he’s yet to prove himself at the plate, that’s certainly true, but I don’t feel like anyone here is predicting anything crazy about him at present.

  3. Green still holding in Group 3 as well. Is Clearwater a possibility? Surprised to see Cozens down in Group 4.

  4. I don’t know who is going where, but they’ve got to make some cuts at catcher or move some people to a different position. I could see Ludy and Bass both getting cut, and possibly even Numata. He’s spending too much time on the DL to invest a lot more time and effort in him considering the poor year he had behind the plate last year.

    1. You don’t have to cut catchers, though. You hold them back in XST for now and wait and see where you need a hand to replace someone injured. If someone’s a lost cause, and not helping you out in XST, then sure, time to make a cut, but those organizational catcher decisions are based on way more than on-field performance.

    2. I do recall Numata making the All Star team while playing at Lakewood. I’ve seen was other players with same or less batting averages and you call them “prospects”. Enjoy what the organization got and if you can do better, how come I don’t see your name in any baseball organization?

  5. There are a ton of guys still in camp. In fact, another group will probably get sent down this weekend. There will be lots of guys getting pushed back to where they’ll play. Most starting players were already known by the organization last month. Only injury can sometimes change the plan and even that usually, doesn’t move up others. As an example, the Phillies signed Serna to play SS at CWater because Quinn is on the shelf. Crawford will play with Pullin and Green and form 3/4 of a very interesting infield at LWood with LGJ, Tocci, and Cozens in the OF. Very interesting lineup… Where its still unknown is placing middle relievers and deciding who gets cut as there are still quite a few cuts to be made.
    I’ll be there tomorrow, very excited… Have lots of sunshine for me!

  6. I think part of the reason why you “may” see guys like Tocci and Crawford at Clearwater is because its pretty thin there. Especially, when you factor in Watson,Quinn and Knapp are hurt. Arguably the 3 top prospects who would’ve been there. You factor that in with Lakewood being pretty full and this is what you get. There’s prob gonna be a surprise or 2 moved up just for that reason. Even if its not Crawford or Tocci

  7. I don’t see them holding someone like Ludy or Numata back in extended spring training. Numata is hurt right now but that is part of the reason why I think he could get cut. This is the second time that he has broken his hamate bone.

    1. well you only get two hamate bones and generally the remove the hook which is what breaks so you know it wont happen again

  8. As it stands right now…is there one legitimate MLB infield prospect slated to play at LHV or Reading this year?

    1. Other than Franco in LHV, not sure. Doesn’t look like there’s any in AA, but the rosters aren’t completely set yet, so I won’t comment any further.

    2. It looks like Hernandez at second because they need a shortstop back-up now. I think Cedeno or Brignac makes Phils. Abreu looks to be in the outfield with Ruf’s injury.
      Harold Martinez came on last year. He could have a break-out year, which would make him a legitimate prospect.
      Chris Serritella is a MLB prospect with good power at first base. He may hit a few homers at Reading. I don’t see Duran as a prospect.

  9. Was able to see the AAA and AA squads today at the complex. Milner started the AA game, they started a little early so I missed his 1st inning, his 2nd went like this: single, K, HBP(it just grazed him) single(loading bases) pop-up, Walk forcing in a run, then a flyout. 3rd inning gave up a 1 out double(that was lost in the high sky by both the cf and lf), 4th inning 1 out error( Hewitt muffed a liner right at him), 5th leadoff single, pop-up, flyout and a K to end his day. Hoby pitched well but the only negative may have been none of his outs or hits were grounders, they were all pop-ups, flyouts or line drives. Lino Martinez followed and pitched a 123 6th and in the 7th gave up a leadoff single followed by a walk, but got out of the inning unscathed. O ‘Sullivan pitched the 8th and hit a batter and got a K then Colton Murray finished up getting 2 flyouts, then a HR before a ground out. Offensively Alonso(ss) and Parr(lf) were 2 for 3 with 2 doubles each, and Cartwright(cf) was also 2 for 3 but with a bunt single to go with a blooper. Hewitt(rf) had a double in 3 ABs, Negrych(2b) a single in 3 ABs, Joseph(C) a double in 5 ABs and Ludy(DH) a single in 4 ABs. The other starters that went hitless were H. Martinez(3b) 0 for 4, Stassi(1b) 0 for 3 with a walk, and Ferdinand(DH) (yes there were 2 DHs, this is ST) 0 for 3.
    I was able to see most of the AAA game but not able to chart the pitchers(except for A. Wright who went 2 innings, 0 h, 0 r, 2 w and 3 k) but Enright started and had a few long innings! Gillies(lf) was 2 for 3 with a double, bunt single and a HBP, Collier(cf) had a leadoff triple(and was stranded) and a walk in 4 PAs, Murphy(dh) a solo homer in 3 ABs, Tolber(3b) a double in 3 ABs, and Overbeck(1b) a 3 run homer in 3 ABs. Going hitless were Henson(ss), Dugan(rf)(2 Ks),Hill(c),and Bixler(2b)(a walk).

      1. It’s too bad because Ruf has true 65/70 power and consistently puts together some of the best at bats on the team. The silver lining is that the extra time should permit the team to shake out the rest of the bench. Hopefully Ruf can get a good 2-3 weeks in the minors on his way back to show what he can do and re-open some eyes. Ruf is a major league hitter and there’s no doubt he can help a team – I’d just prefer that the team be the Phillies rather than the Pirates, Nationals or As.

        Meanwhile, I will be able to stew while the bullpen struggles to throw strikes and Seth Rosin establishes himself as a solid bullpen piece on a WS contender. That’s okay, we’ve got Munson and Stutes . . . oh never mind.

      2. Thanks…what about Freddy Galvis and his MRSA hospitalization and Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez’s shoulder cortisone shot.

  10. Crawford 4-4 yesterday according to the blueclaws blog! If he stays this hot whats the chance he gets pushed to clearwater to start the season?

  11. I was at the morning practice at the complex today and I got my first look at Crawford. Smooth is the only word that comes to mind. He’s a very impressive looking player on both defense and offense. I watched group 3 go through their paces. Every group does the same thing, just on different fields. I saw everyone’s favorite 17 yr old, Tooci, and still have the same opinion. His arms got a little stronger but he has no chest muscles, just a tall lean pole. Unfortunately, Tocci and Hiciano didn’t get to hit (they were pissed) so I didn’t them hit. The hardest swinger was Tromp, who is not very big but is very strong. Btw, I saw Ludy, he’s literally fat, I don’t get it. I saw LGJ and he looked fit, not thin but fit. I asked Jiwan when he would start playing and he said soon hopefully. Tomorrow I’ll watch the group 1 and 2 games at the complex. I love it down here. For those that know, Lenny’s for breakfast and island way grill for dinner!

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