393 thoughts on “The Draft

  1. Arizona State baseball coach Pat Murphy and basketball coach Herb Sendek contacted the Coy family Monday afternoon by phone to inform Coy he could play baseball for the Sun Devils, if he honors his basketball scholarship and spurns the Phillies.

    As of Monday, Coy’s older brother, Dickie, said no timetable had been set for Johnny to make his final decision. Dickie Coy did say the Phillies had made a contract offer but declined to discuss the specifics, saying only, “It was more than expected” for the initial offer.

    http://www.stjoenews.net/news/2008/jun/09/arizona-state-adds-coys-decision/?sports

  2. Hmmm, The Arroyo signing is interesting. The Phils already busted slot apparently – That’s good, but is it taking money away from someone in the earlier rounds?

    It’s nice to see that they are actively getting some guys signed. I’d like to see some of the first ten round guys’ names appear though.

    BTW, nice work BC.

    - Jeff

  3. That’s really interesting re: Arroyo. 7th to 8th round money is somewhere around $100,000, and they kept him away from his scholarship to Cal. I just hope they’ll continue to be as proactive.

    Re: Coy, Sendek is already in hot water at Arizona State because they don’t really like his Princeton offense. Coy’s one of only two recruits Sendek’s got coming in, so he’ll pull out all the stops to keep him. It certainly does smell a bit fishy that the ASU baseball coach didn’t offer Coy a chance to play until after the draft. I’ll admit though, it’s interesting to see that the initial offer was “more than expected.” Fingers crossed this is a trend…

  4. I can’t believe Sendek has that kind of pull at ASU to get the baseball coach to commit to that…remember Brackman decided to focus on baseball a few years back while both were at NC St.

  5. I believe last year you had to contact the Commish for any bonus over $133,000 given to player after the 7th round, or something like that. So if they gave Arroyo $100K or so, they wouldn’t even have to deal with the Commish. Nice to see they got him signed.

  6. The owners are all business people. They know the meaning of “investment”. They see the rising prices of salaries (see Howard, Ryan), and have hopefully realized that spending an extra 2-3 mil a year in the draft will save multiple millions down the road. But this is promising so far, especially Arroyo.

  7. encouraging signings thus far, Hewitt says he wants to sign in the next two weeks as well….

    this is the most important part of this draft, and so far its looking like the phillies not only broke the mold drafting these guys, they might actually aggressively pursue a good amount of them as well…

  8. not sure if you all noticed, but the link on Haislet also mentioned that Hanzawa was leaving for Phillies camp yesterday and would sign upon arrival.

  9. Hey guys, Cloud signed!

    “I thought about staying here this summer and pitching and maybe signing after the season, but this is an opportunity I’ve waited for since I was a kid and I thought I’d be pretty stupid not to take it,” the 2005 Bellevue East graduate said.

    Cloyd pitched for UNO for two seasons and was the North Central Conference Pitcher of the Year following his sophomore campaign. But he left the school after that season and did not pitch anywhere this spring. He figured not pitching his junior season would hinder his draft status.

    “I really thought there was no way I would get drafted so I was pretty surprised when I heard the news,” he said.

    http://www.bellevueleader.com/site/tab3.cfm?newsid=19761085&BRD=2712&PAG=461&dept_id=556339&rfi=6

  10. It’s nice to see the Phils being active. I’m glad to see Hamilton, Gose and Overbeck inked.

    As for other top picks, I have my doubts about Coy. Plus, is it just me or does he seem to tall (and skinny) to be a third basemen?

    From what I hear, Hewitt seems eager to sign. I suppose there’s a good chance that he could fail miserably, but he sounds like a good, solid kid, and I’ll be rooting for him (I’d be okay with a Ron Gant-type ceiling). I just hope he doesn’t try to switch hit – Bo Jackson used to hit 450 ft homers in BP lefthanded too.

    Is there any work on talks with Collier?

    - Jeff

  11. Collier should be soon I think. He has already publicly stated he will sign. He does not have a Division 1 scholarship.

  12. regarding collier

    “Collier hadn’t begun contract negotiations with the Phillies as of Thursday evening, but confirmed he will sign with the organization.

    Prior to the draft, the 6-foot-2, 190-pound Collier said if he were drafted after the fifth round he would attend junior college and reenter the draft in 2009.

    “I pretty much knew I was going to sign,” Collier said. “But I knew anything could happen, so I didn’t really have any expectations about where I would go.” ”

    Its just a matter of time

  13. Thanks to poster Broadst. for the following info:

    -http://www.tdn.com/articles/2008/06/06/local_sports/doc48496aefbdd85341406468.txt

    -Stutes said he hopes to sign his first pro contract before the end of next week and be ready to jump into the Phillies’ farm system as soon as he is finished with his spring term finals on Thursday.

    -Grieve to sign today.
    The Phillies told me to just enjoy today, and then I’ll sign with them Sunday or Monday and head to Clearwater (to the Gulf Coast League Phillies, a Rookie League team),” Grieve said. “I know, moving from college to pro ball, I definitely need to improve and develop my changeup.

  14. Sorry, twas unclear in my previous post and no edit feature. Broadst. is a poster on the philaphans board.

    Also, any reason you haven’t bolded Cloyd yet?

  15. I can’t believe Gose signed already… I thought he would be tougher than that! I really hope he considers pitching.

    Overall I’m incredibly optimistic right now about this draft. I might just throw a party. You all can come if you want.

  16. Just as a point of clarification, the Phillies may have agreements with players but technically I don’t think they can sign HS players until after their graduation day. Hewitt and Coy have already graduated. Pettibone and Collier graduate today/tonight (6/11). Knapp graduates Friday (6/13) and May graduates on Saturday (6/14).

  17. So far (by my count), 5 of their top 12 picks have signed. Assuming Hewitt and Collier can get signed, and that Coy is probably not going to happen, that leaves Knapp, Pettibone, May and Schreve. What are the thoughts on these guys? From what I’ve read here, Knapp is likely to sign, Shreve would be smart to sign (due to his injury issues)

    - Jeff

  18. So I’m talking to Huck right now. He says that whoever posted under the name Crowhuck is an imposter. Considering I don’t think the real crowhuck has ever come to this site, nor do I think he’s ever posted anything anywhere claiming to have sources without proof, I’m going to believe the Huck I’m talking to. Please delete that post James, and feel free to delete this too if you want.

  19. I didn’t until this was brought to my attention and I am sorry for any inconvenience this misuse of my name may have brought to your board. Just someone trying to be a, well that’s pretty self explanatory.

  20. I know the information isn’t available for all signees, but could we get a listing of bonus as well? Mostly for curiousity’s sake.

  21. Just Google Justin Zumwalde’s name and you will see alot of game reports on him. He’s a power hitter and if signed will be an asset to the Phillies.

  22. Yeah I’ll add bonus amounts when I get them. And this weekend I’ll try to find more stats and add them. If anyone else wants to locate stats for the college guys and post them, that would help me out.

  23. Scott Lauber of the Wilmington News Journal in his blog wrote today
    * The Phils have signed two more draft picks — right-hander Eryk McConnell (20th round from NC State) and outfielder Ruddy Rio-Nunez (35th round from Edouard Montpetit High in Montreal).

    Chalk two more up for the Phils!

  24. Tried to find some info on Rio-Nunez. Here is the best that I came up with. This is a google translation of a page that was originally in French, so it’s a bit rough.

    Ruddy Rio Nunez drafted by the Phillies
    Jacques Lanciault
    Friday June 06, 2008

    In the 35th round, Philadelphia Phillies selected Ruddy Rio Nunez of the high school Edouard Montpetit. Rio Nunez is a voltigeur who played for the Marquis de Montreal network development midget AAA in 2007. He participated in the Canadian Baseball Championships last summer in Quebec with the Quebec team.

    He also participated in the camp Addidas held in Toronto with the best players 16 and under in Canada. According to Alex Agostino, the technical director of Baseball Quebec, Ruddy was a serious candidate for wings and the ABC in 2008-2009. It has lots of speed, it is physically strong, has a good shot with a stick. His father, however, decided he would play in the Dominican Republic this summer. Probably the Phillies will try to sign and send it to their Academy, precisely in the Dominican Republic.

    Source: Baseball Edition

    Link: http://www.rds.ca/baseballquebec/chroniques/253227.html

  25. can someone tell me why there are so many older players at triple a and so many twenty four and up at low a and rookie ball

  26. Having trouble finding past stats for some players, so I’m just putting what I can find.

    Worley, Vance

    IP APP-GS W-L K BB ERA
    2008 103.1 15-15 7-4 70 12 4.27

  27. Cody Overbeck (this is what is listed on the Ole Miss and Phillies site and sorry for the formatting)

    AVG. AB R H HR RBI OBP% SLG% SB
    2008 .356 253 51 90 17 59 .428 .621 1-1
    2007 .288 236 45 58 14 58 .340 .534 5-5

  28. Rocky,

    to answer your question. They are called organizational fillers. They are there because the organization doesn’t have a depth of prospects.

  29. thank you 3up3kkk so why do we draft so many 22or older inst.ead of taking younger kids and try to develope them.to me to take a 22 or 23 year old and send them to gcl or williamsport is crazy if you cant send them to low a or higher it not worth it

  30. We don’t draft more kids because we don’t have the draft budget that the Red Sox do. Our system has more actual prospects in it now than at any time I can remember over the last 10 years.

  31. All organizations draft a combination of 17-18 year old HS players and 3-4 year college guys.

    Not sure I agree that is isn’t worth taking a college player just because he’s not ready to jump immediately to Lakewood or above. The SS leagues are a way to introduce those players to the professional game.

    Also, on a purely practical level, the Phillies (or any other team) don’t want to immediately release 20-25 players at the A-ball level just because they have a new draft class coming in. Since all teams are contractually obligated to field SS teams, its a place to put these players for the remainder of the season while the organization decides on the fate of their current prospects.

  32. 1. I’m pretty sure the Blaine O’Brien thing is an error and that BA highlighted the 34th round pick instead of the 36th round pick.

    2. I don’t think the PR staff works on the weekend so I am holding out hope that there will be an announcement later today on signings since Friday. Even then, sometimes the communication between the scouting department and the website P.R. staff isn’t always the greatest. I am keeping my eye on the GCL roster as well.

  33. phuturephillies. this has been my problem with the phillies why can’t we spend more on draft choice,san diego spend a million dollars to sign peavy a lower draft choice when we didnt have first round choice in 2004 why moss instead of a hard to sign high schooler.we are the second largest market without two teams our owners paid 55 million for this team and its worth over 600 million,if we can’t get a santana because of what he is paid then we have to go and do it through the draft.

  34. I’m a little bit dissapointed… I was hoping they would have more of thier top picks signed by now. When is the deadline?

    Maybe I’m just being nitpicky.

  35. with the new players from the draft is this when a lot of players get release or isn’t there a limit in the minors.

  36. Players generally get released either after the season or (more popularly) at the close of spring training, or “black Monday.” Most of these draftees don’t take jobs away from current prospects because they a) aren’t advanced enough to go to Lakewood and b) Williamsport can carry 30 players and the GCL 35- even with 30 signees (a high number) there is plenty of room for the guys who were left in extended spring training. FYI, even if some college draftees could play in Lakewood now skills-wise, keep in mind that many of these guys have already played a long college season so these next couple months are simply to acclimate the players to the Phillies organization and pro ball in general.. The Instructional League in the fall is where the organization begins to expect improvement in the players.

  37. that’s why I have a hard time with understanding the drafting of twentythree year old players who will get a little time this year and really wont start there career until they are almost twenty four and the phillies don’t fast track as in the case of utley and howard so the only way that I would take older college players is if they good enough to fast track instead go younger and try to develop them ,

  38. In the Philly Daily news today…..

    Phillers

    The Phillies hosted second-round pick Jason Knapp (righthander, North Hunterdon (N.J.) High) and his family before the game

    Could this mean a deal is close to being made?

  39. The more I read about Hewitt the more I like the pick, especially if he can get acclimated to playing 3rd base. Unless Donald can play 3rd we really don’t have a single decent prospect at that position in our entire minor league system. But if they sign Coy and Overbeck, would they be more likely to place Hewitt at another position?

    Sorry I always ask questions in my posts, I just assume you know better than I do.

    [personal attacks don't fly here, save it for another site]

  40. Steven Susdorf hit a HR last night as the Bulldogs upset UNC and now await the winner of the elimination round, a win there advance them to the Finals

  41. phuture phillies. hewitt seems to have the tools in workouts but the little information that I have read talks about the wood bat and the cape cod league.,where they say he had a bad time how much stock do you put in the reports out of that league.

  42. Well, the Cape Cod league is a great indicator, and when looking at college guys, I weigh that almost as much as their performance in college. Lots of guys can put up big numbers in college with the dreaded “metal bat swing”, and it never translates to wood bats. Hewitt is so raw, we probably will have to wait a few seasons before we really have any idea what we have.

  43. Duh –

    I think that Mattair is still considered a pretty decent prospect. He’s struggled at Lakewood, but his numbers after a pretty abysmal April are adequate (given that he is only 19), and he has had some clutch hits.

    That being said, Overbeck is signed and went 1-4 last night in Williamsport. If Coy signs, he probably won’t be a 3B. And from what I’ve read about Hewitt, in all likelihood he will end up in the outfield and become Ron Gant 2.0.

    - Jeff

  44. Watching the Fresno St – UNC game last night they were comparing Susdorf to Will Clark in appearance and swing…not bad company. I was trying to remember where I heard that name…then I saw it here today.

  45. update on coy:

    Division I college basketball or professional baseball? That’s the choice Benton graduate Johnny Coy has faced since Major League Baseball’s first-year player draft earlier this month.

    But the Philadelphia Phillies, who picked Coy in the seventh round, tried this week to make that choice somewhat easier.

    They said Wednesday that they’ve offered to allow him to maintain his amateur basketball status so he can still play at Arizona State, while playing professional baseball in the summers with the Phillies organization.

    “There are only a handful of guys who do (both),” said Marti Wolever, the Phillies director of scouting. “It’s a unique situation. Johnny’s a unique athlete.”

    If Coy accepts the offer, he would be sent immediately to the Gulf Coast League. He’d play baseball through mid-August and then report to Arizona State.

    http://www.stjoenews.net/news/2008/jun/18/phillies-come-st-joseph-offer-chance-hoops-and-pro/?sports

  46. collier signed.

    The Philadelphia Phillies, among others, took notice, selecting him with the 34th overall pick of the 2008 Major League Baseball First-Year Player draft on June 5. Collier signed with the team Wednesday.

    Collier will join the Phillies’ rookie-level team in Clearwater, Fla., next week.

    http://www2.dailybulletin.com/ci_9630503

  47. Phils brass getting creative to sign Coy, I like the sound of that, although the two sport thing will stunt his development. PP, how many years would that scenario set Coy back? I guess it all depends on his baseball skill set as it stands today. Is he a patient hitter? Does he field his position (3B?) at a major league level?

  48. Good news about Collier and potentially Coy.

    My thoughts on Coy are that is will stunt his development in both sports, and in the next year or two he may decide which one he’s better at, and focus on that one, a la Ricky Williams, who was obviously more skilled at playing football (and, unfortunately, an All-Star at smoking pot). I believe that it’s been speculated on this site that Coy is probably too tall to be a 3b, and may ultimately end up in the outfield or first. I’m surprised he doesn’t pitch.

    - Jeff

  49. I think it would be a mistake, on a number of levels. Not that I’ll complain if they spend the money to do it, but if he plays two sports I think he’s an extreme longshot.

  50. Jeff: Ricky Williams was an All-Pro at smoking pot…give credit where credit is due.

    On Coy: If that’s what it took to get him to sign (much like Gose as an OF) I’m fine with it. He’s young and a great athlete…a couple seasons of basketball won’t hurt his growth that much. As long as the Phillies options were this or not signing him at all, I’m cool with it.

  51. if coy did sign with the phillies and went to az state, how would this affect his signing bonus? i think you mentioned before that slot for pick #226 was $133k but you expected it would take significantly more to sign him (i think you said around $350k). also, it looks like az state is about $80k for a 4 year degree.

    maybe the extra amount budgeted for coy can be used to sign an additional prospect.

  52. Well, I suppose it depends on the way they do it. If they allow him to attend college and also play basketball, they might use one of the two “exempt” bonuses that doesn’t have to be approved by the Commish, and could give him like $275K. He may be a premium athlete with a huge ceiling, but by allowing him to play a college sport you are assuming a lot of risk, so the bonus should be in line with that. If you don’t pay over slot though, he’ll probably just attend college and play baseball as well, which means you lose him for 3 years before you have a chance to re-draft him.

  53. I think there’s some sort of accounting that allows teams that sign multi-sport athletes to pro-rate their bonuses over a number of years (for MLB purposes), so those bonuses wouldn’t count as over slot. I’m pretty sure I read it in relation to the Twins signing Mauer a few years back.

  54. I dont like the two sport thing, but whatever, if it gets him signed, its gonna hurt his development ten fold however, I hope he doesn’t stagnate himelf by doing this, and atleast finds one sport where he could excel at the Pro level… He’s a unique talent with a unique body type, heres to hoping baseball is his ticket…..

  55. can anyone give me information on the talent level and signability of may and pettibone taken in the top ten of our draft.

  56. I look at Coy this way. without the multi sport offer, we probably have no shot at signing him. thus we are paying for a 3 year option on a kid we think could be a much higher draft pick as a college junior. the chance of him going to the NBA is 0%. so we are just signing him ahead of the 2011 draft and giving him the benefit of pro coaching instead of college baseball coaching and wooden bats for 3 years insted of aluminum. is it perfect? no. is it better than not having him at all in our system? yes.

    give credit where credit is due. we bash them all of the time for being cheap, but here the phillies are being aggress to get the rights to a great athelete. props!

  57. I’m getting worried about knapp, pettibone, schreve, and may at this point. there hasnt been much word on these guys and it makes a crappy pitcher-less without them, especially schreve.

  58. Hewitt + Shreve + May = 8/10 for me
    Hewitt + Shreve + May + Coy = 9/10 for me
    Hewitt + Shreve + May + Coy + Pettibone or Weber = 10/10
    Hewitt + Shreve + May + Coy + Pettitbone + Weber = I’ll weep tears of joy

  59. Too many scenarios, lol

    I’ll be kind of disappointed if he’s not signed, mainly because everyone knew he needed Tommy John surgery prior to the draft. So that the Phillies took him where they did (inside the first 10 rounds), I’d have to think some kind of deal was in place. To not sign him would seem like a bad miscalculation.

  60. They took a lot of signability questions (Pettibone, May, Coy, Weber, and even a guy like Worley). Maybe they figured he would be a good fallback option if they couldn’t/don’t get all these guys signed?

  61. more coy. it sounds a little less optimistic than the other day.

    A recent seventh-round draft pick of the in Major League Baseball’s first-year player draft, Coy still must decide whether to sign with the Philadelphia Phillies or take Arizona State’s offer of also playing collegiate baseball. That decision will be decided by money.

    Brian Kohlscheen, Phillies central regional supervisor, met with the Coy family for the second time this week. In an hour-and-a-half conversation, the Phillies offered $50,000 more than their original offer, but according to Coy’s older brother, Dickie, it’s still not enough to assure the signing.

    Dickie Coy said scouts from the Phillies have said Johnny was a second-round talent but dropped due to signability issues related to his Division I basketball commitment.

    “We had an understanding before the draft that Johnny had to go in a certain round or he might not sign,” Dickie Coy said. “He didn’t go in those rounds, so it’s been up in the air.

    “After today, they know it’s going to take a lot more money than what they’re offering.”

    Phillies director of scouting, Marti Woelver, who also was in town earlier this week, returns to St. Joseph today for another workout.

    http://www.stjoenews.net/news/2008/jun/20/coy-plans-play-arizona-st-no-matter-what/?sports

  62. The phillies tell a kid he is a second roung talent,then pay him second round money if he is that good in your view then get it done .we need high ceiling players in the systems it makes it easier to trade ,when you have a lot of good prospect you can wheel and deal for what you need if we had a good outfield prospect it would help us on our decision on burrell and we wouldn’t have to sign a jenkins who is not that good,but we had no other choice.

  63. I say worry about the top 4 guys before you worry about coy. if u still have enough left in the budget after those 4 are dealt with, then by all means give him what he wants.

  64. I can’t understand the phillies ownership,how can they draft mach ,based on how much it cost,I always thought they were cheap but now I know its true,to take a vaulable slot like a fourth pick and waste it on a player who isn’t worth it just to stay under budget doesn’t bold well in terms of a teams that’s trying to win,I wish that at my age I could stop careing but as a philadelphia native it’s hard they are my team.

  65. Shreve and Hewitt will make me call this draft a success. Pettibone, May and Coy would just be gravy…if we can the first 2 and then 1 of the other 3 I’ll be very happy.

  66. I find it hard to believe that during any negotiation that the Phillies would have told Dickie Coy that Coy was a 2nd round talent. In fact there is zero chance they would have. The simpliest in negotiation tactics says you never reveal that until you got the guy signed on the bottom line. I think Dickie Coy is the one playing games here.

  67. i think you are correct that it is dickie coy playing games. it has been less than two weeks since dickie coy said that the phils offer was “more than expected” for their initial offer. it is hard for me to reconcile that with “it’s going to take a lot more money than what they’re offering.”

  68. biggieDaddy,I think you are right after reading some articles on this kid I am not even sure he wants to play baseball over basketball,use the money and try to sign one of the high school kids that are conslder hard to sign

  69. Hewitt will sign for slot, count on it. He’s just waiting for some guys around him to sign. I’m not worried about him at all.

    The other guys, I have some concerns about, but I don’t think any team has signed all of their picks yet, esp the HS kids.

  70. from: http://www.nj.com/printer/printer.ssf?/base/sports-0/121410940191310.xml&coll=1
    PITCHER OF THE YEAR
    Righty re-tooled mechanics to excel for N. Hunterdon
    Sunday, June 22, 2008
    BY BOB BEHRE
    For the Star-Ledger
    North Hunterdon right-hander Jason Knapp would admit that a year ago he was little more than a big kid with a strong arm.

    Well, a real big kid with a real strong arm would be more accurate.

    Knapp knew he had plenty of room for improvement on both fronts, so he went about turning himself into a pitcher — and a physical specimen.

    “I spent the whole off-season working on my mechanics,” he said. “My mechanics are much more sound now and better fundamentally.”

    That was never more obvious than when the 6-5, 225-pound Knapp limited the prodigious Bloomfield lineup to one hit in his team’s 10-0 victory in the NJSIAA Group 4 semifinals on June 3. He struck out seven and walked two.

    Knapp’s fastball was clocked consistently in the mid-90s and touched 97 miles per-hour twice against Bloomfield. More telling, his motion was fluid and he never appeared taxed by the 84-pitch effort.

    His preparation for the 2008 season paid dividends for North Hunterdon and for his career. Knapp was drafted in the second round, 71st overall, by the Philadelphia Phillies in Major League Baseball’s First-Year Players Draft on June 5.

    Knapp is The Star-Ledger’s 2008 Pitcher of the Year.

    At press time, he said he was hammering out details on a contract that would send him, in a matter of days, to rookie ball and enable him to take classes at North Carolina via the internet. Knapp had committed early to North Carolina before his stock rose meteorically with pro scouts.

    “I did a lot of running and weight lifting to prepare for the season because I wasn’t going to allow anything to stop me from playing this season,” he said.

    Knapp did not have enough rest to pitch in North Hunterdon’s 17-5 loss to Hunterdon Central in the Group 4 state final on June 7. But he did provide the offense in the defeat when he hit a three-run homer that sailed an estimated 400-plus feet.

    Knapp’s workout regimen shed all of the baby fat he carried through an uneven junior season and the re-tooling of his mechanics fixed much of the control issues that accelerated his pitch-counts in 2007.

    Knapp credits his pitching coach, Justin Jensen, and North Hunterdon coach Parker Snare for fine-tuning his physical and mental approach on the mound.

    “I’ve learned to pitch backward,” he said. “Now I know I can throw a change-up or a slider in the dirt at 1-0.”

    Suddenly, Knapp was an efficient, confident pitcher on the mound.

    “Basically, I worked on keeping my weight back until the last second,” he said, “and tried to get more consistent with my mechanics. I still have some issues to work on. There’s always some little aspects of your motion you can work on.”

    All that work led to a 6-1 record and 79 strikeouts and just 16 walks in 51 innings this spring. He boasted a 1.37 ERA.

    While his control issues have been contained, he’s developed a knack for making opposing hitters uncomfortable in the box. He has an ability to spot his pitches both in the strike zone and in areas discomforting to batters.

    As Bloomfield coach Mike Policastro lamented after his team was bitten by Knapp’s repertoire: “He was all over the place. Our guys would be ducking a high hard one, then he’d slip in a breaking ball on the knees. It’s not often you see a kid throwing 95-96-97 at this level.”

    That’s why he’s going to the next level.

  71. Not sure that changes anything. It looks like it will take something close to 2nd round money, at least the bottom of the second round to get him plus scholarship money. It is just a question of whether the Phillies want him enough to invest $400-$500K. I think he is pretty risky at that price range, but it is up to the Phillies to see how high they go. The one downside for him going to ASU is that he would only play short season ball for the first couple of seasons, maybe even three. I think they got Ricky Williams to take a spring semester off one year, but if Coy is playing hoops into March, that will not happen.

    I am 50-50 on this one as I know the Phillies see the draft as a zero sum budget game. 500K from one hand means 500K less to someone else. At least they could spread it out over 5 years if they really wanted him.

  72. looking at the percentage of players who are drafted out of high school and later go to college and increase there draft positon is very small.bye coy if you can at eighteen walk away from three hundred thousand or more good luck maybe he comes from a rich family,he could take that money and in four years have a nice start in life,how many people would like to start life with that kind of money no student loans and a good amount of money to decide what you want to do, these kids are crazy to turn down this kind of start in life,unless they have wealthy parents

  73. Yeah, I think that’s it for Coy, at least as far as the Phils are concerned. The discrepancy between what it would take to get him and what he’d be worth as someone concentrating on college hoops is too large to justify the investment.

    But as andyb says, it’s a zero sum game for the Phils, so I’m not totally broken up. If this means a better chance to sign Shreve, May, Pettibone, and Weber, then that’s a tradeoff I’ll gladly take.

  74. phuturephillies can you answer a question last year’s draft ,we take carlos moncrief in round 20 he doesn’t sign. this year he goes to cleveland 16th round how is he able to be drafted again after one year.doesn’t he have to wait for his junior year of college

  75. Promising news. Arkansas Coach Dave Van Horn expects Colby Shreve to sign with Phillies.

    “The Hogs also expect to lose pitcher Colby Shreve, 6-5, 210, to the Philadelphia Phillies, who took the College of Southern Nevada right-hander in the sixth round. Shreve was considered one of the top junior-college pitchers in the nation.”

    http://www.nwanews.com/adg/Sports/229839/

  76. did anyboby read colin column about latin players, the phillies will spend one million, the mets two years ago spent that on one player who is ready to come to the majors ,the oakland athletics are going to spend four million on a pitcher ,it shows how bad a job they have done in the latin american players market only one player to double a, carlos and thirty years since samuel. I still think they really don’t get it about the minors and how you draft and teach players I go back to the white sox after getting gio gonzalex back saying after he spend a year at reading, that they would have to keep him at double a to get him out the bad habits he pick up the last year,a direct insult to the phillies instruction at that level.maybe that’s why we produce so little pitching talent,gavin floyd now is a star after going to the white sox with us he had the stuff but couldn’t get it together,one year with sox and now his era and hit per inning are outstanding,why ?maybe we are cheating the prospect with bad instruction,could it be phillies loyalty to ex players or do they go for cheaper minor league managers and coaches,this is the reason I refuse to go to a game even though its ony two blocks from my house to the stadium,its not the players that I am against its the owners,and there approach to what it takes to win,it’s always bottom line never what is good for our team and our fans.

  77. rocky i think your off base in some of your analysis. All of the trends have shown, that while we arnt the biggest player in latin america, we have significantly increased our presence there. We are being mentioned as top contenders for some of the biggest signings in the area. Our school in Venezuela is one of the biggest and most productive, our school in Puerto Rico and the Dominican arnt anything to laugh at if ive heard correct, and we’re also starting to expand farther into Mexico, Brazil, and other countries little recognized before.
    In terms of the pitching staff in the minors, im not totally sure, you could be right. I think our pitching staffs at the younger levels like williamsport, GCL, and lakewood seem to do a nice job handling the constant influx of new players both college and highschool aged. They seem to get the best out of them. From Clearwater on up, it seems to slip off a bit in terms of production, but i think thats more of a problem of talent not coaching. As it goes up, our pitching talent gets slimmer and slimmer. However there are some signs that coaching is being missed. Take Carpenter for example. It didnt seem like there was anyone there at AA to guide him and turn things around.

  78. Not going to games because you dislike the team’s minor league coaching staff is pretty rediculous.

    I don’t entirely dissagree with your assessment, but your examples are way off base. Gavin Floyd was pegged as a Chris Carpenter-esque late-bloomer from the beginning and the Phillies just didn’t give him enough time. He didn’t train in the Chisox minor league system at all. They just threw him into the starting rotation and let him grow up on the mound. It was all in his head…. hardly anything to do with mechanical instruction.

    That was all impatience and a really, really dumb trade.

  79. shunky if I said that I didn’t attend because of the minors,that is not what I Meant,its the owners attitude towards winning,and doing what’s right for us the fan and the city, if they make a bad signing why should we suffer,take the loss and go on,I don’t care if they spend thirty million or one hundred and fifty,the bottom line is we as fans and as city deserve to have a championship in this town,

  80. We’re not the Yankees… we can’t just buy a championship.

    Its a business and if they were democratic about it and let the people of Philadelphia decide who to draft, sign and trade for my best guess is that the team would be horrible. These people are professional scouts and managers for a reason and know alot more than we do… I’m not saying that they are the best at it but there is no perfect system to building a winning team.

  81. SHUNKY YOUR KIDDING RIGHT? WHO SAID THE PEOPLE DECIDE I NEVER SAID THAT WHAT ARE YOU READING THEY HAVE A RESPONSEABILTY TO THE FANS WHO SUPPORT THE TEAM AND LIVE AND DIE WITH EVERY GAME,DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT THEY WILL DO EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO WIN,RIGHT NOW THEY HAVE A GOOD TEAM THAT NEEDS HELP,IF IT TAKES THEM TO GO OVER BUDJECT THEN

  82. rocky calm down bud we’re just having a discussion. And as a matter of opinion, i dont think budget is that much of a problem this year. i think gillick is more concerned with preserving the future of the club instead of morgaging it for a 4 month lease. Sure some are remiss to admit their mistakes in signings and all, but then again they know alot more than we do, maybe its not such a good idea to designate jenkins for assignment because he is in the midst of a terrible slump. if that were the case, it would be a revolving door, even chase utley would have gotten shipped out. Its just one of those things where you need to trust that gillick and co know what they are doing and are trying their hardest to make the best decisions for the club.

  83. Haha chill man, caps lock is the key three up from the bottom left.. I suggest you press it and stop yelling at me.

    Live and die with every game? Self admitted… you don’t even go. You’re hardly their target market then anyway.

    Your not a real fan you’re a dang crazy person. Half the crap you say is completely insane, if even understandable at all.

  84. Phillies haven’t signed a single draft pick in 10 days I think. 5 of their top 10 picks remain unsigned. Mets have signed all of their picks through 14 rounds. Are we going to draft Hewitt, Pettibone, May, Shreve and Coy out to August 15th? That seems like a waste of a developmental year.

  85. i think at least 2 of the 5 sign. Hewitt and Schreve. I think that the phils are still trying to negotiate with pettibone and may. One or both of them could potentially sign if the money is right. Coy i think is gone at this point.

  86. I find it hard to believe that the Phillies are willing to waste both a 3rd and 4th round draft pick so I’ll be supremely disappointed if at least one of Pettibone and May don’t sign. I really couldn’t care less about Coy. I have both Weber and Broxton ranked above him in my preferences.

  87. shunky maybe your right I care too much to try to reason with you, its hard when you care about baseball like I do,I am fifty seven and remember how rudy carpenter had to take a bunch of college kids, when he was at penn and prove to his father how bad the phillies were and to start to build the team through the draft,it started to pay off in the seventies if you recall or read about it the last championship and only one, I never would atttack you personally if it came off as that I am sorry,what I say is true do I lie when they don’t go out and sign draft choices like cooper and workman , j.d drew,high draft choices like these set back your organization,you can’t draft players in the top ten and then not sign them,even if drew never played for us he would have brought some prospect back,as you say I am not a fan,your wrong there but these ownership will never see my money,to say your small market is a disgrace,to let bill giles run the team for years and after he destroyed it turn it over to ed wade who’s only experience was as a assistant to woodward a real loser,and ask him to make trades and rebuild the farm system,the only reason wade was g.m is he and giles worked together in houston lighting fireworks,if to be a fan mean that I have to go to a game instead of watching on t.v.,if I have to give my money to these group of owners then you are right .I am not a fan. shunky have a nice day thank you

  88. I’ve been reading through your guys posts… I’m from the same high school as May, (he was just voted 3A player of the year in Washington a couple days ago so congrats 2 him) although I’m a couple years older it’s a pretty small community so word gets around pretty quick, and from what I’ve been hearing he’s going to sign. I know he was really hoping (or so told) he’d go in the third round, but being that he didn’t slip much farther beyond that I don’t believe that will affect his status to sign, since the money situation shouldn’t be too drastically different (from where he was expecting to go in the draft). Although, I don’t want to get your hopes up (he’s a class act 4.0 student and one of the University of Washington’s prized recruits) he is the highest pitcher drafted in my high school’s history (ahead of Jason Schmidt even- an 8th rounder). With the money that will be offered to him, I just don’t see him passing that up, not where we’re from which is a very economically depressed area. I think your Phillies will offer him some sort of college option if baseball doesn’t pan out, (no hexes) and I’m really convinced he’ll sign with that incentive in mind. If you want some insight on his reaction to being drafted check out tdn.com. and search his name. Hope this helped you guys out a little…

  89. squire the majority of the Mets picks were all college kids, I don’t think you can compare them to the Phils draft.

  90. thanks for that dizzy. I really think he will sign as well but im glad for your insight. The feeling i get is that the phillies are more than willing to give him the college option on the countract and are probably willing to go up to 3rd round money if thats what he wants. Im excited to get him in the farm system. hopefully soon so his summer isnt lost.

  91. I read something today that overslot signings are not even allowed to be announced till Aug 15. Is that true? We might have signed a few guys overslot.

  92. That is correct. I think Beckham’s deal is overslot. The Athletics went way over slot on 10th rounder Rashun Dixon and the Orioles went over slot to sign Xavier Avery. Also, the Dodgers used one of those rumored 250K exceptions to sign a 9th round draft eligible college sophomore. With Hewitt in, my next highest priority is May (who I like a touch more than Pettibone).

  93. I would like to say thanks to the people on this blog,most of you say that I am wrong about everything I say so this will be my last time,yesterday when I posted a comment about how little is spent on latin players,I was told that it wrong they have increased there budject how good there doing,well read the daily news today,last year they were in the bottom five,this year they will spend a little more there is a top prospect that the biggest market in baseball will get san diego and another big market team oakland will get the other two top of the rotation guys, plus san diego will spend for two other players,when colin column said that the phillies highest latin player since samuel is carlos the only player in thirty years to reach double a ,that was a another dumb comment by me according to people on this blog, facts do not lie.this owernship kills me they have made a killing with this team and now when they have a good neuclus they won’t go out and get a top pitcher ,to compete. to me if they were trying to win last year was a great prospect in rich portello who detroit paid seven million to sign he is already in high a instead we take a hurt left hander in savery, who is almost twenty two and has to sign. see easy sign over top talent that’s my point .remember when they said that the reason there farm system was down was not having first round choices in 2004 and five ,then why not go for the hard to sign up side high school or junior college player and give them top first round money instead they take moss and costnaza but I know that I don’t know what is going on too stupid by the people on this blog standards. thank you for listening have a nice day

  94. rocky – take is easy…this is just sports debate going on here. lighten up for crying out loud. i argue against a lot of people including PP himself. it makes for more interesting discussion then when people just agree with each other like bobble heads. you are taking this way too seriously and way too personal. it is a sports blog, not life or death here.

  95. good news on hewitt, and the draft is looking good right now. a few more picks would be very nice. they went with a high risk/high reward approach this year by drafting high ceiling high schoolers. they won’t sign all of their top 10 picks, but they have signed their top 5. got to give credit where credit is due.

  96. I’m really excited about this draft. Hopefully one or two of the “high risk/high reward” guys pans out and we get a reward. I think the Phils minor-league system gets a bad rap though. A good portion of the major league team right now came up through the organization, and although they may not be Latin players, there is promise there with some of the Latin guys in the low minors that have been signed over the last few years. I don’t necessarily blame the Phillies for not running out and spending millions on every Latin prospect. The odds of those guys hitting in the majors is no better/worse than the US guys available via the draft, so why spend more money? Just my thoughts…hopefully nobody reads this and thinks I’m saying they are wrong. At least I use punctuation though. :)

  97. If they can get Shreve and Pettibone and they bust slot on three or four of the late-round highschool guys, I’d call this a success.

    People act like the front office purposefully goes out and drafts crappy players to spite the people of Philadelphia. The FO has a much bigger vested interest in the team than any of us do.

    And I’m sure I can speak for everyone in saying that your use of punctuation is mighty appreciated.

    Bye, Rocky.

  98. thanks shunky for the kind words, you are right about my punctuation had to go to work to help my family so my education was not what it should be,thank god for people like you,if we all were like you the phillies could even spend less ,and I quess you don’t think phuture phillies knows what he is talking about when he tells you mach was pick ,because he was a cheap fourth round sign,god bless you some day when you wake up ,and smell the coffee.sorry that I wasn’t going to responsed but you left me know choice bye,shunky see you at the parade.

  99. Taking jabs at another poster for his punctuation is pretty sad…I may not always agree with Rocky but you can fault his passion for the phils…We all are one in what we come here about, Phillies fans…Debating is great taking shots at someones grammar should not be part of the debate…Rocky i applaud your passion for the team and my hat is off to you for taking care of your family while many others wouldnt sacrifice in the same situation..Keep the posts coming sir

  100. coy update. it sounds like what the red tornado mentioned a few days ago is going to happen.

    After multiple meetings with Philadephia Phillies scouts during the past two weeks, Coy intends to enroll in the school’s summer session, which begins July 8, unless the Phillies dramatically improve their current signing bonus offer.

    Not eager to draw out the negotiating process, Coy and his family have settled on a July 6 deadline for the Phillies to make their final offer before Coy enters school and passes up his chance at a pro baseball contract.

    Dickie Coy, Johnny’s brother, indicated that some of Philadelphia’s other draft selections delepleted the team’s alloted draft coffers, leaving less for Coy.

    “They need to go up more, and they know that,” Dickie Coy said. “But they don’t know if they’ve got enough to make it happen.”

    http://www.stjoenews.net/news/2008/jul/01/gallagher-and-vollmer-summer-no-time-rest/?sports

  101. i’ve had about enough of the bluster from the Coy camp.. at this point i dont care if he signs or not. but if its a no-go it better mean shreve, may and pettibone r in.

  102. I agree with danimal. The Coy family seems to seriously suffer from big fish in a small pond syndrome. Coy is an OK prospect but didn’t make anybody’s Top 200 draft eligible prospect list. I honestly can’t remember a Phillies draft pick’s family being so chatty with the press about the negotiations. Frankly, I don’t know what the Phillies are telling Dickie Coy but they have not gone over slot for a single signed draft pick with the possible small exception of Arroyo who probably got 100K at most. Every single Top 10 round pick got slot money. End the dance with Coy and get Shreve, May and Pettibone signed.

  103. You know, I don’t blame Coy and his family for this — he’s got leverage with his basketball/baseball scholarship to Arizona State, and so they’re using it to wring as much money out of the Phils as they can.

    But it sounds like the Phils have gone as high as they will; at some point, it just doesn’t make sense to go too far above slot for someone who’s going to be splitting their time between sports. That’s fine, as long as it means the Phils will definitely get Schreve and at least one of May/Pettibone in. And I’ll get greedy here: I’d also love to get Weber.

  104. Sounds like the Coy family went to Lindros University with a major in meddling and a minor in communications.

  105. Phils signed Chad Poe.

    Coach Corky Palmer has signed Jeff Stanley, who is transferring from Daytona Beach (Fla.) College, but lost pitcher Chad Poe.

    Stanley led Daytona Beach in innings pitched (66) and strikeouts (39) last season.

    Poe, a Bossier Parrish Community College transfer, has decided to sign a pro contract after the Philadelphia Phillies took him in the 27th round of the Major League Baseball draft.

    http://www.klfy.com/Global/story.asp?S=8608045&nav=7k7f

    i also thought this was an interesting article:

    While Forrest is the polished product, Poe represents some scouts’ dream — a hard thrower with room to improve.

    “He’s not as polished as T.J., but he’s been up to 96,” Stephens said of Poe’s fastball. “Some days it’s there and some days it’s not. He’s a hard worker. He’ll get it.”

    http://www.shreveporttimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080605/SPORTS/806050357/1001

  106. looks like coy made the trip to tempe. both sides are very far apart. a few interesting points in the article:

    But the two sides still are about $300,000 apart when it comes to a contract, according to Johnny’s brother, Dickie. Dickie added that if Johnny were a full-time baseball player, the Phillies might be willing to offer Johnny the $500,000 contract he is seeking, but the Coys don’t expect such an offer for a part-time player.

    “For a part-time player, they can come up around $200,000 or $215,000. That’s a lot of money for three months of a year, but when you take away taxes, it’s only around 100,000,” Dickie said. “(Johnny) is looking for something that will blow him away, and it’s not going to happen. He is very comfortable with his decision.”

    There is a chance that if the Phillies don’t reach terms with a couple of their other draft picks this weekend, they could up the offer to Johnny Coy on Tuesday before he enrolls. But Dickie said that seems unlikely.

    http://www.stjoenews.net/news/2008/jul/05/coy-ready-reject-phillies-offer/

  107. Oh just move on from this guy he seems like he is going to be trouble no matter how you look at it. This is another “Howard and Family” incident on the horizon…. Seems like the family is waiting for the kid to hit the lottery so they can ride on easy street.

  108. Can someone answer a question about the draft. say the phillies sign pettibone and susdorf. how many of the picks whould you say are organization fillers,I think with those two sign it would be about thirty sign. most likely the average for teams.

  109. What do you think about that 29th pick Broxton. I saw some highlights on this kid, a 2 sport player D1 prospect in football and All State baseball player. What a steal! should have gone higher.

  110. LC1,

    It isnt a steal to grab a player like that in the late rounds. He is a D1 prospect as you said, but he was probably virtually unsignable. Hence why he dropped so far. Chances of Broxton signing are minimal i would imagine, so dont get your hopes up.

  111. There are now 4 groups of six Players not signed.

    The first six: Pettibone, May, Shreve, Coy, Weber, Susdorf
    The 2nd six Edwards, Broxton, Henderson, Ellis, Simpson, O’brien.

    Then the third and fourth groups of six Players, mostly High Schoolers who will not sign for the minimal slot money.

    What do people think will happen, does me make sense to hope that we sign 4 of the first six, 3 of the second six, 2 of the third six, and one in the fourth group of six?

    That would mean 10 more signings and would feel great. Is the over under of 10 too high?

  112. the phillies will most likely sign two or three more players.I think most teams sign around thirty picks ,they are at twenty nine right now,and knowing how they stick to budject. so maybe a lower round pick like susdorf and one top like may or pettibone.can’t see them getting some of the highschoolers who want top money its not what they do,with a minor league systems without a top player like a matt porta they still won’t go out and get that player.

  113. 1. I think the Phillies will sign at least 3 more draft picks – Susdorf (who is a college senior), Shreve and most likely May.

    2. Broxton may be more signable than we think as it appears that he will forego playing football for Florida Atlantic and concentrate on baseball at Santa Fe Community College. http://inst.sfcc.edu/~hes/two/baseindex.htm
    Since the Phillies couldn’t sign Coy they might offer his money to Broxton who is a similar player.

    3. I’m bummed that its been taking so long with May, Shreve, Pettibone but to be fair as of now the Phillies have signed more HS players in this draft than any team other than the Royals. Across MLB not alot (but a few) overslot deals have been announced.

  114. thats interesting on Broxton, squire. If they threw him the money they had set aside for Coy i could see him maybe being swayed. However, i think the phillies are alot more worried about their top 3 pitchers left. Broxton will be an afterthought.

    Sir Alden,
    I think ten is unrealistically optimistic. There just isnt enough room in the minors for that type of signing spree. I realistically expect them to sign 2 or 3 more players. I would be extatic if they ponied up and signed 4-6.

  115. squire .what makes you think or did you read that broxton has interest in signing.I had trouble finding anything on him.The kid that suppose to have real potential is marrs. a pitcher anything on him.does susdorf have a another year of college .is that the reason he hasn’t sign.

  116. did chad poe sign. the phillies never to my knowledge made a announcement. and he is not listed as sign on there draft board in the phillies page.

  117. Susdorf was a senior this year. The only delay here is that he probably wanted a couple weeks off after the college world series.

    The reason I think Broxton is more signable is that he is giving up football to play baseball for a JUCO. Thus, he has made the decision to pursue baseball, the only question is where that development will better be served.

    Marrs is almost certainly going to Wake Forest. He was probably an insurance pick for Knapp.

  118. did chad poe sign. the phillies never to my knowledge made a announcement. and he is not listed as sign on there draft board in the phillies page.

    BC. that just blew me away. five hundred thousand for a twenty seven round draft choice .I am going to email that to the phillies f.o.. see if they give me a response.I am going to ask them how detroit can do it and we can’t .see if they said they are a small market team and can’t do what detroit does.

    sa

  119. Squire, the brewers have sign to my count nine,high school players, and there first is high school who will sign,I could be wrong, is there a site that gives you signing.

  120. PP, with may now in the fold, how do you feel about this draft?
    it seems like the phils have done well signing the projection guys they drafted…if they can ink schreve i would feel really good about things. obviously i think we all would prefer more college juniors in the mix, but a respectable job nonetheless.

  121. Shreve is a must. If they sign him and no one else, I’ll be happy with the draft. Add in Weber and I’ll be delighted. I’ll take Pettibone, but to be honest, I never understood that pick anyway.

  122. last article on coy from me. we will see how this decision works out for him in a few years.

    Coy enrolled at the Pacific 10 institution Monday morning, officially ending his chances of signing with the Philadephia Phillies — the team which selected him in the seventh round of last month’s Major League Baseball draft.

    Despite the Phillies’ recent pleas for Coy to wait to decide until the Aug. 15 signing deadline, Coy passed on the team’s repeated offers and will be available to re-enter the baseball draft in 2010.

    http://www.stjoenews.net/news/2008/jul/08/coy-adjusts-collegiate-lifestyle-arizona-st/

  123. Thanks for staying on top of the Coy situation, bc. I think the Phils made the right choice in not offering a bounty to a part-time player, and I wish Johnny the best of luck at Arizona State.

    Agree that Shreve is a must, though that sounds promising based on what BC posted back on June 27. And I’m intrigued enough by Weber to hope that the Phils get something done. I’m wondering if the failure to sign Adis Portillo will free up some money for an above-slot signing or two from the draft… maybe Weber and Broxton?

  124. So i got bored and started googling some of the unsigned players, especially those in the late rounds. Most seem like their committments are pretty strong already and wont falter. There was one draft blog that was reporting that on the 15th of June, the phillies had already signed Blaine O’brien. He has a pretty strong committment to UGA so i find it hard to believe. However, if we could pry this kid away it would be almost the steal of the draft. From everything ive read, this kid is a top notch prep pitcher that should ahve gone really early if he was more signable. I guess all we can do is dream that the phillies inked him to a way over slot deal and are just waiting for the commish.

  125. I never understood the Portillo thing…would they have ever gone that high for one guy?

    I’d rather have Shreve, Broxton, Weber and Pettibone than Portillo and the price is probably close.

    I’m looking forward to the top part of the screen getting really ‘bold’ in the next month.

  126. DCWILDCAT53,
    You are probably right, about Broxton. But, what if the Philies can’t sign Coy. Perhapes, I can see them strongly going after the same calibur player, like Broxton or Henderson. And, What is this about Portillo, is he a 5 tooler?

  127. phuturephillies. The little information that I read on weber,makes me believe that he would sign for third round money. Do you think he is worth that. If you were the phillies would you go that high for this kid.

  128. MiLB.com has Steve Sussforf listed on Williamsport’s roster. No surprise here but nice to see him get his pro career started.

  129. I know kids who go to high school with Blaine O’Brien and they’ve told me he’s going to Georgia. Not really a surprise, though that report of him signing did throw everyone off a bit.

    And rocky, I can’t speak for phuturephillies, but with the money saved from Portillo, I’d be willing to entertain the thought of giving Weber third round money. If he’d sign for somewhere in the $350K range, it’d be worth it to get a kid with his resume and pitchability into the system, in my opinion at least.

  130. It means he signed- the Phils’ PR department doesn’t make signings outside of the top couple a priority. They generally like to group them together_ i bet we see something about May and Susdorf in the next few days.

  131. PhillyFriar. Thank you for the info. I am trying to understand some of the picks we made. When I look them up in b.a. there isn’t a scouting report on some of the high schooler.I thought that the bottom players out of high school were all hard to sign,high level prospect is that right.

  132. As of June 1st, there were 4 groups of six draft picks not signed.

    1): Pettibone, (May), Shreve, Coy, Weber, (Susdorf)
    2): Edwards, Broxton, Henderson, Ellis, Simpson, O’Brien.
    3): Johnson, Cosart, Pond, Marrs, Petello, Bolsenbroek
    4): Law, Zumwalde, Soto, Ginter, Russo, Hake

    The third and fourth groups of six Players, mostly High Schoolers with scholarships to college, who will not sign for the minimal slot money.

    My current guess was that we will sign 4 of the first six, 1 of the second six, 1 of the third six, and 1 in the fourth group of six. Or an over / under of seven.

    We now have signed 2 of seven (in brackets).

    That would mean 10 more signings and would feel great. Is the over under of 10 too high?

  133. wow if thats true i really wasnt suspecting that. From all that ive read, he is a Dutch pitcher who has resisted signing a few times. He pitched in JUCO for a while, but i expected him to pass again.

  134. The official news release for Susdorf, Poe and Bolsenbroek was just posted on the phillies MLB page (if I could figure out how to paste URLs, I’d include it).

    Great site, by the way.

  135. per this article, it took $100k to sign Poe (27).

    Chad Poe was used to busting radar guns during his two seasons at Bossier Parish Community College.

    Last month, he convinced the Philadelphia Phillies to bust slot and give the 27th-round draft pick a $100,000 signing bonus.

    “I think (Poe’s bonus) equated out to seventh- or eighth-round money,” BPCC coach Aaron Vorachek said. “I’m not surprised (by the money) because of his arm strength. There aren’t too many kids out there with that kind of arm strength.

    http://www.shreveporttimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008807040319

  136. The more I think about it the more I like this ‘bust the lower slot’ strategy. The farm system needs a lot so you might as well spread the love, right?

    I’m still holding my breath on Shreve.

  137. When I first came on this site,I thought the phillies were always looking for bargins in the draft. Now I see some of the other teams signing.The mets gave twenty five thousand to a second baseman in the seventh round. And there are a couple of others who took thirty five to fifty thousand. This is when the top ten round players were over a hundred thousand.I wish that you can see the link, But I am bad at trying things on the computer,its made me change a lot.Even though still think the phillies need some of the high ceiling h.s. players they drafted. like weber,broxton.marrs.but can understand they aren’t alone in sloting.

  138. RodeoJones: remember BC’s post on June 27, that the Arkansas coach fully expects Shreve to sign with the Phils. I have a feeling it’ll be a deadline deal (as James alluded to) that busts slot.

    The one thing that bugs me is we haven’t heard anything about either Pettibone or Weber. I’ve said before I’d prefer the latter (if forced to choose), but with losing Coy, I think it’s important that the Phils get at least one of the two.

  139. Ok I still don’t get when drafted players sign major league contracts. May signed a 5 yr deal with $150k in escrow until May if he decides to go to college.

    Does that mean he loses the $150k after next yr?
    Does that mean after 5 yrs, 2013, he will be a FA or does he just automatically hit arbitration after those 5 yrs?

    Didn’t Pelfrey, who is pitching lights out and sign a major league deal for 4 yrs back in ’06 but I could have sworn the radio said he was a Met through 2012?

  140. Phuturephillies. How do I find out about prospects. I put kyle slate from last years draft .BBA doesn’t even have him rated for me to see what kind of prospect he is.

  141. May didn’t sign a Major League contract. When you sign a ML contract, you have to be placed on the 40 man roster. When you are placed on the 40 man roster, teams then have to option the player down to the minors. You have 3 option years, where you can be optioned as many times as the club sees fit. After those 3 years, you have to pass through waivers. Players signing ML deals also get paid the major league minimum, which I believe is 380K this year. Minor leaguers make much less. Teams generally only give ML contracts to guys expected to move very quickly, guys like Justin Verlander get those types of deals, because teams expect them to only spend 1-1.5 seasons in the minors, and when they get to the majors, the expectation is that they stick.

    Edit > Ok, I read the details. His bonus is a straight $375,000 up front. They also put the $150K in an escrow fund. If he chooses to quit baseball in the next 5 years, he can collect that money. I don’t know if its standard practice for that money to go to the prospect at some point down the line or not, I’m sure many teams have different practices. In 5 years, he’ll have to be placed on the 40 man roster, then he has 6 years of service time before becoming a FA.

  142. So he just got a 5 yr deal that isn’t a major league contract but when its up he’ll still be a philly for 3 yrs? Am I confused?

  143. PhillyFriar I think if the phillies have to give up donald,carrasco ,outman or another pitcher, it is a must to sign both weber and sheve. to put into the system for replacement.

  144. Oy.

    High School players who sign minor league deals need to be placed on the 40 man roster after their 5th pro season. For college kids, its 4 seasons. When you are placed on the 40 man roster, you have 3 option years. You don’t have to be placed on the 25 man roster, but you have to remain on the 40 man. Jason Jaramillo is in this category. He was promoted to the 40 man roster after last season. In 2008, 2009, and 2010, he’s still on a minor league contract until he is promoted to the 25 man roster. Once that happens, he makes the major league minimum. For those 3 seasons, he doesn’t have to remain on the 25 man roster, he can be optioned to the minors. After those 3 seasons, so in Jaramillo’s case, after 2010, the team has to keep him on the 25 man roster, and if they chose to send him down to the minors, he’d have to clear waivers.

    May looks like this, if he debuts this summer

    2008: minor league deal
    2009: minor league deal
    2010: minor league deal
    2011: minor league deal
    2012: minor league deal

    After 2012, they need to put him on the 40 man roster, if he wasn’t beforehand. The only way he’d be put on the 40 man before then is if he is called up to the majors.

    2013: Option year 1
    2014: Option year 2
    2015: Option year 3

    2016: 25 man roster
    2017: 25 man roster
    2018: 25 man roster

    After 2018, he’ll be eligible for free agency, unless he clears waivers and spends time in the minors and not on the 40 man roster.

  145. Oh that actual answered all my questions thanks. That was a little confusing to me at first but now I understand.

  146. phuturephillies has it exactly right with regard to the service time issues. Most sportswriters really don’t understand this stuff so they make a lot of mistakes when talking about the terms of the deal.

    I also am not entirely sure how the MLB scholarship program works. I suspect that the Phillies really didn’t put 150K in escrow but rather have made benefits of 150K available to May in the MLB scholarship program which I suspects works like a pooled insurance risk mechanism.

  147. people confuse big payrolls with talent then make a big deal about how the marlins and rays are overachieving despite tiny payrolls. In reality those teams are loaded with talent, but the teams are not forced to pay them until that 6th year comes around. When that happens, they just trade them and reload. Payrolls baloon when you start paying mediocre starters 8 million (adam eaton). Would you rather have cole hamels for 500k or eaton or carlos silva for more than i will earn in my lifetime? (i know there is a more complicated explanation to this regarding arbitration, but i keep things simple)

  148. Ed. What you didn’t say is that when you get the high draft choices.You first must know how to draft and second you must sign them. The marlins got uggula for twenty five thousand . They seem to know talent.When they trade a player like josh beckett they get good value or they take the two draft choices. We traded curt schilling and got a thirty eight year old pitcher who lost twenty games,a middle reliever who left after half year and a broken down left hander. We let the second pick in the draft walk[DREW] which sets you back to let that kind of pick go unsign.Even if have to overpay and wait to trade him to get something back if you feel he isn’t worth the money.We traded the best at the time third baseman in baseball for polanco a good player but power hitting third baseman should bring you more,plus we let polanco go for nothing.If you have a bad f.o or ownership who wouldn’t pay the money or let a player sit until you get value.Then it can’t work.The phillies in the case of schilling and rolen never should have made those deals.But they didn’t want to pay off the contracts and wait for someone to offer a better deal or take and sign the choices.Remember what phuturephiilies said about mach only because they had a chance to sign him under slot because they had a first and one a a lot of choices and didn’t want to go over budjet.

  149. well yeah, you have to have good talent evaluators and negotiators. Larry Beinfest with the marlins is pretty amazing at both. He knows exactly who to draft and when to sell…plus he has to because Miami is an awful baseball city.

  150. wasn’t uggla a rule 5? meaning he could have gone to anyone (not sure what round he was picked in the rule 5, but i believe he was a diamondback. i remember looking after his rookie year that his stats didn’t jump out the page at you and the dbacks had a lot of good young talent back then, so they had to “expose” someone. quick hint, if you want good talent, pick up rule 5′s of the dbacks, a’s, twins and red sox. those teams knows how to draft well.

  151. Ed . That’s the thing that kills me the people of miami don’t care about the marlins.Yet with a little bankroll and no fan support they are competitive.

  152. Mike that’s the point what did the marlins see that others in the rule 5 draft didn’t.You seen his stats and they were nothing to indicate him being this good. But the marlins scout saw something.

  153. rocky,

    not sure of the year but with the marlins (before this year) perennially in the basement they would have had one of the first choices, but as you say, they would take a shot where others won’t. We get Jim Ed Warden, they get Uggla. I’m not surprised.

    Going out on a limb here but was Shane Victorino a rule 5? He’s not uggla (different type of hitter) but he’s pretty good.

  154. Yea, Victorino was a rule 5 pick under Wade. They actually offered him back to the Dodgers for some amount of money I don’t remember. The Dodgers turned him down and he remained with the Phillies and ended up putting good numbers in Scranton.

  155. “i am going to go out on a limb…susdorff will be the first player from this draft to make it to the majors”

    not a bad guess, but realistically its more likely to be one of the college relief pitchers we picked up ala Rosenberg, Schwimmer, or the like. Its easier to fast track them.

  156. Anyone else get the feeling that loading up on all these high school kids in this draft is meant to counter the potential loss of high round draft picks next year, as in the phillies may be prepared to make a run at one of the type A free agent starters like Sabathia or Sheets.

  157. lekh tizdayen Gillick is leaving and most likely its going to be another phillies yes man amaro, Can’t see this ownership going after high priced pitchers with long committments. As far a not having first or second round choices, why can’t we go after hard to sign players in whatever round say the fourth is our first choice and pay them over slot like a first rounder if they project to be a five star prospect. Not like they did when they went after moss and wasted a draft.

  158. lekh tizdayen – i think that is a definite possibility and i hope that it is. that would be sound strategy.

  159. Mike. When ed said santana was a rule 5 it interested me. I looked up the rule 5 players, did you know that santana was pick by the marlins and then traded for a guy named camp.Also uggula was the eight pick that year the first pick was fabio castro I think by Kansas city.

  160. Abreu was also a Rule 5 pick that the Phils got in a trade with Tampa after they selected him. You can certainly find some gems there if you know what you are doing.

    Also, am I like the only one that still sees the Polanco trade as a positive? The Phils got Urbina who was a HUGE help in the bullpen that year and they opened up playing time for some scrub named Utley.

  161. Greg: We could have just put Polanco at 3B to give Utley playing time while eliminating David Bell from playing everyday. Of course to do that we would have had to admit that Bell was horrible that year.

  162. Actually Polanco was playing 3rd at the time of the trade but that is a dead horse now. Abreu was an expansion draft pick not rule 5. Funny those two names would come up back to back . I love the Phillies but our history in trades is such that we often are better off not making them. Wade attempted to deal Howard and Utley to pick up key pieces. lol Remember his efforts to get Kip Wells.

  163. Polanco was spelling Bell at 3B occasionally at the time of his trade but Bell was still getting the most ABs. I thought we traded Travis Lee to the Rays for Abreu…I could be wrong though…after the Rays picked him from the Astros.

  164. phuturephillies I was just watching some video on russo and law. And just looking at them russo looks like a stud.I know that I am not a scout but his arm motion and frame he looks like a real good prospect. law looks stiff to me just wondering who you would want if only one could be sign.

  165. didn’t see it posted anywhere but Hewitt has made two starts for the GCL phillies. First game? 0/5 with 4 SO. He is listed as an OF though.

  166. This might get buried in all of the Blanton talk, but Cody Overbeck had two more rbis last night – he now has 28rbis in 28 games, and is batting over .400 with runners in scoring position.

    At what point can we say, “hey, this guy is an rbi machine?” rather than look at it as a fluky hot-streak start (i.e. Tyler Mach last year)?

    - Jeff

  167. I didn’t realize how young Worley was. He won’t turn 21 until after the season. He graduated HS as a 17 year old (like alot of Californians apparently). For the most part the draft class has played really well.

  168. Yea, Worley has impressed me. All of his peripherals are good other than the K/9, which is just average. But for a guy who’s knock was control problems, 2 BB in 26 IP is a good sign. Just hope he can keep it up.

  169. Just shows you that you can still get big bucks even with TJS 6th round and 400K thats some nice change for him. Hope he comes out with that heat consitantly in the minors.

  170. This is very good news. Have to give the phils props for getting the job done with the draft this year…pettibone signing would be nice at this point, but the only guy i really want to see now is broxton. If they busted slot for him to get some more 3B talent in the system life would be good.

  171. i think if the phils committed to sign him he wouldnt be very hard to sway from the crapola that is FAU football

  172. If the Shreve is correct, then this draft is looking pretty good for the Phillies then – especially since a lot of the draftees have gotten off to a decent start.

    - Jeff

  173. Here’s what I can find on Fike:

    “Fike, a sophomore left-hander, led all Potomac State pitchers with seven wins this season and a 1.72 earned run average.

    Fike struck out 70 while walking just 18 in 57 2/3 innings of work, and opposing hitters managed just a .192 average against the hard-throwing lefty. Fike is anticipating the Major League Baseball Amateur Draft, which begins today. He expects to be a mid-round pick and has had frequent contact with professional teams throughout the season.”

    “‘Nathan really picked us up today,” said Catamounts Head Coach Doug Little. “He was really able to change speeds and mix his pitches to keep them off balance. I’m proud of him and all our guys.’”

    So he’s a hard-throwing lefty who probably throws fastball, changeup, and 2 breaking pitches. That would be my guess. Seems like a decent signing, no?

  174. I didn’t realize the Phillies had signed 26 of their first 31 picks, that is pretty darn good compared to what they have done in the past. They even seem to be getting some of the lower round flyer picks signed.

  175. Y’all should check out susdorf’s video on mlb.com. His swing is extremely stiff and he’s not an athlete. He is not the first player that’s going to see the major leagues from this draft, and if he sees AA it’ll be on the Jeremy slayden career track. he’s just an experienced hitter from a power baseball conference beating up on sub-90mph fastballs, crude breaking stuff and giveaway changeups.

  176. WOW. That is the first really negative report on susdorf’s that I read. Most of the people on here think he has a chance. I never saw him so it’s hard for me but your comments seem to indicate that he has no chance, just a organization filler.

  177. He has a chance. He was drafted as late as he was for a reason. He doesn’t do anything exceptionally well, but he’s passable in the outfield, he has a chance to hit for average, and he can flash occasional power. If everything works out, he’s a good 4th OF. If they don’t, he ends up a minor league lifer.

  178. it’s on MLB.com in the draft section, just navigate to the phillies draft picks. I wouldn’t call it a “report” because that seems a bit official, but a lot of different aspects to Susdorf paint the picture of minor league filler.
    - 18th round senior sign from a good baseball team in a power conference (he was not hiding from the scouts, that’s for sure. In other words, he deserved his draft position.);
    - Played LF in college, so he was likely only the 3rd best outfielder on his college team;
    - Playing against competition that is mostly younger and less pedigreed (meaning the college competition there is comes from all sorts of degrees of competition).
    - and a scouting video that shows he has splayed feet, a weak arm, and a stiff swing. MLB players for the most part are truly remarkable athletes. We take it for granted how smooth, powerful and graceful they all look, but that’s the nature of a selection process that weeds out literally 99.9999 percent of the competition, starting from little league. Susdorf doesn’t fit that picture.

    30 good at bats doesn’t counterbalance all that. Not that there isn’t a “chance”

  179. not sure i agree with the idea that mlb players are remarkable athletes. actually, most just have great hand eye coordination. some are remarkable athletes like upton, but a lot of stars are like ryan howard or big papi or john kruk. these guys are good athletes, but it is the hand eye skill that is remarkable. not the quick twitch skill like football or basketball.

  180. PhuturePhillies – Yeah, that was clearly unexpected. Will be interesting to see what he signed for.

    Was that directed at the Fike signing? Was he not on your radar as he was expected not to sign? Do you have any thoughts on him and with him and Shreve in the fold is this draft looking better to you?

    Also, no more daily discussion threads or are we waiting for the Blanton talk to die down before we go there?

  181. If he can hit, he’ll find a way to the majors with someone. Not saying he will hit but if he does hit at all levels of the minors he’ll find a way to the majors.

  182. I havent had time for the daily threads, plus we have affiliate reports every day now, don’t want to overshadow those. I’ll start writing again when I have time. For now, its easier for me to just post random thoughts in the various threads. The Blanton thread still has a life of its own, apparently.

  183. Who, yet unsigned has the most upside? Especially, guys from the later rounds, who would have gone higher in the draft, if it wasn’t for college committments? Would any of them be difference makers, if they were signed? I’ve heard Broxton and O’Brien’s name thrown around a bit.

    “Difference makers”-high ceiling guys as opposed to “org. filler”.

  184. Cosart, Law, Marrs and Broxton would probably be the 4. If I could have one from that group, probably Marrs.

    If they sign Pettibone, this draft was a B+ for me. If they sign Pettibone and either Weber or one of the 4 above, I’d give this draft an A-. If they sign no one else, its a solid B for me.

  185. Hey does anyone know where Anthony Gose has gone, he hasn’t played for a while, and he was off to a half decent start.

  186. Marrs is probably the least likely to sign. The Phils haven’t been in contact with him since Knapp signed and aren’t expected to make a push for him.

  187. Any chance with Russo? I found that he has a scholarship from NC State—–good athlete with low 90′s fastball. What is the downside?

  188. “Cosart, Law, Marrs and Broxton would probably be the 4. If I could have one from that group, probably Marrs.”

    -Thanks

  189. The rumor on Russo was that he was willing to sign if given a good offer, which in my best estimation, is probably 3rd round money ($350K or so) It could be a little less, or he might have decided college is better.

    The thing is, Pettibone is really the only guy left who could sign for reasonably close to slot. He’s a big tall RHP with tons of projection and a long way to go. He wasn’t that highly hyped going in, they might have to pay a little bit above slot, but I think theres a good chance he signs. Its odd they would take a pick with their comp pick if they didn’t think they could sign him, because they dont get that pick next year.

    If any of the big ceiling guys in the last 20 rounds are going to sign, its going to be on August 15th.

  190. “If any of the big ceiling guys in the last 20 rounds are going to sign, its going to be on August 15th.”

    Because of the requirement that they report bonuses over a certain amount over slot to the head office and/or they want to hold their cards close to their chest as they negotiate with several parties at one (‘hey, you gave him this, I want that to sign’)?

    Either way I’m exicted for August 15th. I might be delusional but I see at least two more signings and an ultimate grade of A for this draft.

  191. The Commish knows big bonuses will be given out. But the sooner they are, the more leverage other guys have to ask for more money and the higher the bonus money goes. Or so the theory says. All of these players, agents and families understand how the game works. Teams wait till the last day/hours so they don’t anger the Commish more than they already will be by signing these guys for well over slot figures.

  192. For what its worth, Bolsenbrook and Fike are no longer bolded on the Baseball America Page. I saw the article about Fike signing, but isnt BA usually pretty good about this kind of thing?

  193. Odd, since Bolsenbroek was included in a Phillies press release. His team just wrapped up their regular season yesterday and the playoffs are about to start, so he likely won’t come to the states anytime soon. I believe he is signed though.

  194. I don’t believe Bolsenbroek or Fike were ever bolded on the BA list. Both are listed as signed on the Phillies website.

  195. Well that shuts me up. Ive been annoyed with all of the Blanton nonsense and would rather sit here and talk prospects. I hope Gose is sitting out to become a pitcher…especially for the reported 772k bonus he received. Its also nice to see both this years and last years drafts performing. Our system should be in much better shape come 2010.

  196. Forgot to post it here, but I got word this morning that Mike Bolsenbroek flew into the states yesterday. I imagine he’s made his way to the Clearwater complex by now and since he’s been pitching competitively in Europe this summer, it probably won’t be too long before he sees game action.

  197. I doubt that Gose has acquiesced to a change to pitcher already. While it may have been posturing at the time, he was quoted as saying before the draft something to the effect that he could never pitch again and he wouldn’t miss it. I think it’s more likely that the Phils let him try to hit for at least one year, maybe two, and hope that he realizes he won’t make the majors as a hitter. At that point he’ll be 19 – not too old at all to switch to pitching full-time.

  198. Cossart said Omaha looked real nice on TV?

    I’ve been to Omaha. Galveston, where he is from, is much nicer. Sheesh. Wonder how little the Phillies offered to make Omaha look that good. Columbia Missour, however, is a nice college town. He’ll probably like it there. No telling if he’ll get to Omaha.

  199. Fike and May made their GCL debut yesterday.

    May pitched one scoreless inning with a hit allowed and a whole lot of 0′s

    Fike pitched two scoreless innings, striking out two and allowing one hit

  200. Is Weber an August 15th guy? I don’t know what he throws, but there is something to be said for results. I’d much rather see them throw money at a Weber than sign a Jenkins at the major league level for millions.

  201. Ryan Weber RHP Clearwater (Fla.) Central Catholic HS Fla.
    At 5-foot-11, Ryan Weber is an undersized righthander with an oversized resume. He has arguably the best mix of command, feel for pitching and competitive nature in the country and has proven it on the international stage. Weber has pitched as the ace for both the youth and junior national teams for USA Baseball, but aside from his track record he doesn’t fit the pro mold, with a fastball in the high 80s. Weber has movement on all of his pitches, and commands his slider and changeup with pinpoint accuracy. Pitching out of a three-quarters arm slot, Weber has a loose delivery and is one of the most proven high school pitchers in the state. He is committed to Florida.

  202. Thanks for the scouting report. High 80′s doesn’t usually cut if for a righty, but it sounds like Weber has enough to go with it to make up for the velocity. One rarely hears a high school pitcher described with the words “feel for pitching” and pinpoint control of his secondary pitches.

    We’ve seen so many “tools” guys fizzle out. Pitchers with mid-90′s velocity and nothing else. And we’ve seen the Phillies farm unable to develop pitchers – most often a failure to develop serviceable secondary pitches. Seems like this guy needs to be signed.

  203. I really hope they sign Weber, I just saw his line from the U-18 US team

    2-0, 2 Starts, 17 Innings, 12 Hits, 1 Run(unearned), 2 Walks, 19 K’s.

    Pretty damn impressive.

  204. 9 days until the 8/15 deadline. Any sense for where we’re at with our unsigned guys? Anyone who’s been tracking this closely have a sense for: guys who might sign / longshots / not going to sign?

  205. I dont remember reading he was “definitely going to USC”, and because the compensation pick is a one off pick, it would be odd for the Phillies to take Pettibone and then not sign him.

    I mean, unless he gave the Phillies one number before the draft and then radically changed course. And if thats the case, then its tough to really fault the Phillies. I think he’ll sign.

    With Weber, I think it comes down to realistic asking price. He lacks projection, but is very polished. I don’t think hes a guy you give $750K to. I don’t know what he’s asking for. I think hes worth $400K or so, what they gave Shreve. If he’ll accept that, sign him up.

  206. If the phils are willing to throw 750K at him it won’t keep me awake at night. He doesn’t have the highest ceiling, but he knows how to pitch and he’ll just fly through the system.

    Besides, its not my money and at this point if they don’t spend that money it probably won’t go toward signing anyone else.

  207. i guess i was reading the “pro USC” sites when trolling the internet to try to find an update. They seem convinced Pettibone would go there but that’s in their best interest. I hope you’re right. I’d love to see us stocked with him and Weber. I wonder though if with Weber’s good showing for USA baseball if its upped his asking price? It seems as if he definitely (again from what i’ve read trying to find out about him) is motivated by $$$.

    August 15th can’t come soon enough.

  208. I think it may not always be the draftees delaying the signing for more money. It could be the Phillies are sitting back waiting to get closer to the deadline to make the players think about their worth. If the players do not hear from the Phillies they may lose confidence in being signed. Because they really want to get in and play, they may take what ever is offered them at the end because it is their last chance this year. Then the Phillies get a bargain.

  209. Phuture. Michael Cisco is small in stature like weber. Can you tell me about him. He has thrown twenty seven innings so far and has done well. Is he a org. filler or prospect,what kind of stuff and velocity does he have .thanks.

  210. Coy is the biggest longshot! :)

    From what I’ve read, Broxton seems to be the least likely of those picked before him.

  211. from what i read, Coy already reported to school. He is definitely out of the running. I think we might still get Pettibone… Other than that i wouldnt hold out hope

  212. The Phillies have signed six of their seven picks in the top 136 of the draft. Barring a late turn of events, it appears unlikely that they will sign supplemental third-rounder Jon Pettibone, a high school pitcher from California who was selected 110th overall. At draft time, the Phils liked their chances of signing the 6-foot-5 righthander. In the interim, however, sources say Pettibone chose Boras as an adviser. Pettibone has a commitment to USC, and the Trojans are coached by former Boras client Chad Kreuter. Don’t hold your breath waiting for Pettibone.

    http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/20080810_EXTRA_BASES.html

  213. haha, well done. Instead of taking him with their 3rd round pick and then getting the pick next year, we take him with the one-off comp pick and take Worley with our 3rd rounder. Worley has been great, but hes not the issue.

    That’s fairly ridiculous.

  214. This is from a June 15th article in the Inquirer on Charlie Law so it may be dated. I wonder what kind of offer the Phillies will make especially if they can’t get a deal done with Pettibone.

    “The Phillies said they’d follow him and make an offer on the last day they can sign him – Aug. 15,” Jonathan Law said. Charlie Law is expected to have a tryout at Citizens Bank Park that day.

    Law has fond memories of watching his older brothers, Jason and Ian, play baseball at Monmouth and Lafayette, respectively.

    “The college experience,” he said, “is almost priceless.”

    http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/high_school/new_jersey/20080615_He_was_main_man_for_the_Mustangs.html

  215. Last thing on Law. This was from a May article in the Inquirer. There is a pretty broad range when they discuss money.

    Law, who turned 18 on Friday, won’t sign unless the money is what a first-, second- or third-rounder usually receives, according to his father, Jonathan.

    “The college experience is something that’s almost priceless, so that’s something to consider,” Charlie Law said. “I saw how much fun my brothers had playing at Monmouth and Lafayette, respectively, and that’s something I have to factor in.”

    But if the money were there, he admitted, it would be difficult to turn down.

    http://www.philly.com/inquirer/columnists/sam_carchidi/20080525_Sam_Carchidi__Miller__Law_await_draft_decisions.html

  216. “That’s fairly ridiculous.”

    Yeah, I’d say it’s a big swing and a miss on that one. I suppose the silver lining is that they can now — if they choose — use the money earmarked for Pettibone to go after someone else. I’ve said all along that Weber would be my preference, but if that doesn’t happen, I’d certainly take Law or one of the other late round high schoolers.

    And I know this was brought up before, but I wonder if Daniel Edwards will choose to sign? If not, then you’d have to assume he’s done playing baseball I guess.

  217. Well Marrs isn’t signing, so I’ll cross him off. If the money is the same, I’d prefer Weber over Broxton, but I’d take either. I’m not giving up on Pettibone yet, and I’ll wait till the deadline has passed to give my take on that.

  218. FWIW, BA Draft Database indicates the Phillies have signed RHP Sean (now listed as Shaun) Ellis a RHP from Polk Community College. I know very little about Mr. Ellis.

  219. I wouldn’t blame boras. Its the phillies F.O. they should know that you have to be able to sign a kid you draft that high. Last year workman,year before cooper, the list goes on and on.

  220. This is on the area scout for not seeing something like this possibly happening. Its the job of the area guy to gauge signability, know the agent situation, and judge makeup.

    My guess is this is how it happened, and this is purely a guess. Pettibone wasn’t really on anyone’s radar as a first 3-4 round talent. The Phillies area guy got in and saw him. They liked the raw talent, figured they could work on his stuff. Phillies take him in the 3rd round, want to offer him below slot to compensate for the extra picks we have. Kid goes from a late round flier to a 3rd rounder and suddenly other agents are coming in and telling him he deserves more money. Signs with Boras, and now starts demanding more money or he’ll go to USC. Phillies balk, and he goes unsigned.

    Again, I might be way off, and thats only me trying to put the pieces together, I have no inside info on Pettibone. Just a hunch.

  221. generally in that situation (team is going to pick lesser-regarded prospect earlier than one would think) there is a predraft negotion where the team says “we will draft you in the 3rd round, but you are going to have to take a 300,000 bonus if we do that.” if the phillies didnt set up a deal beforehand they are stupid, plain and simple. if they did and pettibone reneged on the deal then that is a sleazy move on his part but theres not a lot to do about it.

  222. Other than Pettibone, they’ve done a very good job of locking up all the top picks so its not a huge loss. I’d consider it a very good draft.

  223. My Problem with this is we are letting good talent go unsigned. . Workman really came on in cc. league. Gibson will be a first round pick this year . Rileycooper was a top talent we let go.Now pettibone these players would have made our farm better. It was rated twenty nineth, To me the scouts and F.O. should get together and get this signing players right you need to upgrade the talent in the minors. It helps you stay at budjet and be able to make trades.This is so frustrating to love this team and have them not care that’s how I feel .

  224. I think we have to remember that every team in the majors lets major talent walk away, not because they don’t care or because they didn’t try to sign them, but because the kids, for whatever reason, are dead set on attending college. The term, “signability”, exists for a reason, and sometimes picks just don’t sign. It is frustrating to see talent get away, but in my opinion it would be equally silly to throw huge sums of money at kids who truly do not deserve it. For example, I would love to see Pettibone sign, although I would prefer Weber. But, lets be honest, Pettibone is not a first round talent and does not deserve first round money. Sure, it sucks we used the comp pick on him, but giving a marginal prospect a million dollars is not smart either.

  225. Neduol I know not all teams sign all the choices, but we are talking about top fifteen picks who aren’t signing.The redsox,yankees, detroit can sign there top choices why not us.In the last three drafts we let two thirds and a seventh go unsign,How would that talent look for the twenty nineth rated farmsystems.We can’t ignore there lack of talent in the minors and there subborn attitude toward fixing the problem. This year they didn’t really go big in the international market so go after russo and law, webber and get them sign. Show the fans you are trying to fix the problem in the minors.

  226. Once Boras gets into the mix (which seems to be the case with Pettibone), it means that a team will be paying 1st round money regardless of the round drafted. Hopefully, the Phillies can use some of that money to sign one or more of the others. The money is there—they have sold out CBP 30+ times this year already.

  227. Some of those 40 is my money (I have been to 16 games this year, the vasy majority of which have been sell outs). All the more reason why the money is there.

  228. Wouldn’t that be great if you could go to a “town hall” type meeting with the ownership group and tell them, “I’ve spent $1,500 so far this season in tickets, parking, refreshments, etc. and I think that money should be applied to signing Pettibone.”
    Is all of our cash going to pay off CBP?

  229. My understanding is that the Phillies only contributed 1/3 of the total purchase/construction price (The Commonwealth of PA and the City Put up the other 2/3). As a Pennsylvania resident who works in the City of Philaldephia, I feel that I have contributed more than my fair share

  230. no mlb team signs every pick. all teams have “the one that got away”. nature of the beast.

    they have done a very, very good job signing picks this year so far and there is still more time.

  231. PP Fan But how stupid to take a risk player and get no compensation,Why use your third round pick you got for miss reading workman and waste it. PP you can’t defend them they have a bad farm system spend little money in international market. And you want to defend there action. sorry can’t buy that. And most people who follow them can’t either

  232. Colin_K maybe you can help me understand how no matter what they do in the draft, people will defend them.Maybe because I am older in my fifties I don’t understand the people on this blog.

  233. I would much rather see them spend in the development forum rather than overpay for major league mediocrity like Lieber, Eaton and Jenkins

  234. Philly.com is reporting that the Phillies have agreed to terms with Pettibone at a number well above slot. Possibly as much as $500k.

  235. wow. i thought you were kidding at first. but here it is:

    The Phillies have agreed to terms with righthander Jonathan Pettibone, the No. 110 overall selection and a supplemental third rounder. It’s a big signing in the sense that the Phillies strayed away from the slotting recommendation’s handed down by Major League Baseball in order to lure Pettibone away from a scholarship from Southern California. To put it in perspective, the guy who was drafted immediately after Pettibone in the supplemental round got $125,000. From what I’ve been told, Pettibone got close to four times that amount.

    http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillies/Phils_agree_to_terms_with_Pettibone.html

  236. That’s good news. I think management realized they needed to replenish the system this year. Hopefully the organization will actually develop these players now. I think that is a large weakness of the Phillies organization.

    I hope Philly is not done signing players, but I guess they are.

  237. excellent. add this signing to a group that has really performed well so far and the phils have done a very nice draft this year. they busted slot for several players, got a bunch of late round fliers to sign, appear to have hit on some college arms, and collier (and hewitt to a golson-esque extent) has flashed some potential at this early stage.

  238. Does anyone have any thoughts on Jim Murphy? He’s kinda slipped under my radar, but was recently promoted to Williamsport – I’m assuming to take the demoted Jeremy Hamilton’s place.

    The write-up from the draft calls him an organizational guy who will slug a bit but strikes out too much. Looking at his stats, he has struck out 28 times in 127 at bats – which is high but not outrageous (that comes to just over 100 Ks in 500 ABs), but he has a .331 average and has drawn 18 walks. Hamilton (2 years younger) probably projects as more of a prospect, but Murphy has gotten my attention.

    - Jeff

  239. I now feel that all of the cash that I’ve spent on tickets, Bull’s Barbeque, parking and souveniers, etc. has been well spent

  240. phuturephillies Do you think we will have a august fifteen signing. Could a deal be in place but. they don’t want to announce it .So that they won’t have to hear the commissioner.

  241. Rocky – The Phillies have already publicly gone over slot 4 times (Pettibone, May, Shreve and Knapp (a little). At this point I don’t think they have deals that they are not announcing – that cow has left the barn.

  242. I think there are some rules about having to contact the commissioner’s office if you go a certain amount over slot. I can’t find where I read it, but the basic premise is that not all over slot signings are created equal (as pp argues). I believe that there is wiggle room for each slot, so if those over slot deals that have already been announced by the Phils were within the wiggle room, the Phils may not be in the doghouse just yet and hence may have more over slot signings to come.

    By the way, pp, with the increasing likelihood of Broxton and Weber signing you are closing in on having to deliver on this statement: “Hewitt + Shreve + May + Coy + Pettitbone + Weber = I’ll weep tears of joy” (if you are willing to substitute Broxton for Coy…could be the deal-breaker…).

  243. Hey PP do you think they are going after all these HI ceiling kids because of how much it is costing teams in trades lately? Perhaps after seeing what it costs to just rent a guy like CC or grab a average pitcher like Blanton the cost is sky hi and the FO is realizing that if they are too compete with these other clubs who have tons of prospects they need to do more in the draft?

    In each of the past few years it seems they take a few more steps forward when it comes too the draft with PG at the helm. In 06 they fought off no signing FAs to lose their top picks and taking guys who are still top prospects in Drabek, Donald, Cardenas, Carpenter, and Berry. Then in 07 taking risks in Savery and Taylor whiles still taking guys like Mattair and Darnaud and started reaching in Sampson. To this year where they took 1 more HUGE step forward by taking a lot of Hi Ceiling talent in the first 10 rounds and signing a few Juco kids and stealing Cosart in the later rounds. Im just hoping that this is a turn of the page for the FO and not a PG thing because hes gone after this year. Guess we will just have to wait and see next year if who ever takes over GM (prolly Arbuckle) can sustain the continuous drafting improvements.

  244. Alright phuturephillies who has in your opion more upside.Weber or Cozart. I know you really liked weber.I read he was at 92 miles per hour on radar gun.

  245. Not sure where to post this, but this seems as good of a place as any. I got to see three of our draft picks in person last night at the NYPL all-star game. I’ll start with the good, which wasn’t much. I realize this is a VERY small sample size (half of a game) but anyway…Hanzawa was a solid in the field making every play that he could and making them look easy. At the plate, he walked his first time up on four pitches that weren’t near the plate and struck out on a 1-2 pitch his second time up and looked badly fooled. Susdorf looked overmatched in his two at bats. He struck out on 5 pitches his first at bat without ever taking the bat off of his shoulder and just looked confused walking back to the dugout. This at bat came against the Yankees switch pitching prospect (which was just weird to watch as a fan). His second at bat he struck out swinging at a 2-2 pitch after at least making contact to foul a ball off. I was NOT impressed, but again I realize a very small sample size. The crown jewel of the evening (using your most sarcastic inner reading voice) was Rosenberg, who I guess replaced Rob Roth on the roster at the last minute because Roth was in the program, Rosenberg was not. Anyway, during his one inning of work he gave up all three runs the AL team scored and 4 of the 8 hits they had. He was consistenly hitting 93-94, but apparently wasn’t fooling anybody. The damage could’ve been a lot worse but he had a runner thrown at at third for the final out (Susdorf threw the runner out at the plate, the umpire inexplicably called him safe, then the catcher popped up and threw the next runner out trying to advance to third). All-in-all, not a good showing for the Crosscutters. The game had a fantastic finish though with the NL scoring 3 in the bottom of the 9th to win 4-3.

  246. cisco’s numbers hurt my cranium a little. 47.1 IP, 45/5 K/BB ratio, 1 HR, 35 H, cum ERA of 0.95 and cum WHIP of 0.85. i expect he’ll start at clearwater next year. his college #s were unimpressive though, anyone have a scout on him?

  247. Cisco with another gem for Lakewood:

    7ip 5h 1r 1er obb 7k

    lakewood stats:

    2-1, 0.51 era, 35ip 22h 4r 2er 0hr 0bb 30k

    ostensibly a throwaway college pick, his numbers are mind-numbing so far… and he just turned 21 yrs old..

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