Phils get prospects from Orioles for Jim Thome

The Phils have traded Jim Thome to the Baltimore Orioles for two prospects, RHP Kyle Simon and Catcher Gabrial Lino.  Simon, 21, was the Orioles 4th round draft pick last year out of the University of Arizona.  A 6’5 RHP, Simon was 2-8 with a 3.96 ERA in 14 starts with CLass A Frederick.  In 72.2 innings of work, Simon’s WHIP is an unimpressive 1.47, to go along with an opponents batting average of .293. Simon will likely join Clearwater.

The Phils also picked up 19 year of Venezuelan native Gabrial Lino, a catcher who has spent the season at Class A DelMarva in 208 AB’s, Lino is hitting .218/.282/.340 with 4 HR and 18 RBI’s.  I would expect to see Lino at Lakewood in the short term.

From my perspective, I like the deal.  Two guys with some upside, especially considering the Phils farm director, Joe Jordan knows the Orioles system, having come over from Baltimore.  I am a huge Thome fan (hard not to be) but with his limitations, it would be difficult to hold onto a luxury like Thome, who cant play the field coming down to what very well could be a non existent home stretch.

83 thoughts on “Phils get prospects from Orioles for Jim Thome

  1. I just hope that there IS some real potential for these two pick-ups. Who knows what other teams were willing to give up…for him.

    Prospects are the team’s future so it is imperative that we get guys who really have a decent chance to turn into MLB players.

    n this instance it is obvious that the one “most likely” is Simon…who the O’s got as their 4th round draft choice in ’10. His short record shows he’s got a lot of work ahead of him.

    Now…let the OTHER trading begin…soon.

  2. I wouldn’t have expected Thome to fetch that much of a return. Pleasantly surprised though. I hope Jim helps the O’s get back to the postseason.

  3. Scouting rept on Lino:

    6’3″ 195 19 yrs old “Big league body…athletic, potential power…solid bat speed…above average arm strength…”

    Considering the farm system’s lack of superior catching prospects, this could yield more than at first glance. See him at LKWD?

  4. Just maybe Lino could be the best of the trade since Simon is looked upon as a back of the rotation starter.

    Simon: from U of Ariz , 6’5″ 219 21 yrs old R-R “Throws from a 3/4 arm slot…needs to take advantage of his physical attributes more with that frame…solid control of 89-91 FB touches 93…slider could be a plus pitch…keeps pitches down in the zone; every pitch ‘dances'”…

  5. Lino to Lakewood, will play everyday. Simon to join Clearwater rotation, likely to become reliever in big leagues, and could fast track to majors that way by Sept ’13, or OD ’14

    1. Remember when they all said “He knows the Mariners system, etc etc” after the Lee trade.

      Its much the same here. Both guys (who were were lucky to get for Thome given the circumstances) are pretty much just above org filler status. If either makes it to the Majors and produces, its a massive coup by the FO and Joe Jordan. If not, hey, at least we got two guys that might pan out…its more than we could have expected.

      To put it in perspective, these guys were ranked something like 18th and 22nd in the Orioles system. Dont get your hopes up on either of them. If everything goes right for Simon and he develops as best as can be expected, he’s basically Kyle Kendrick.

      1. How good is the O’s farm system? Seems like depending on who you ask, Lino is either filler or an intriguing prospect, which at least makes it a possibility that he could turn into a player.

        1. Here’s what Sickels had to say about him last year (which I think is pretty accurate):

          20) Gabriel Lino, C, Grade C: Strong defensive catcher, hit well in the GCL but 78 at-bat sample is small. Orioles sources regard him as a major sleeper. I might bump him up to a C+ which would put him ahead of Mahoney and maybe higher.

          Basically, he likely ends up as Org Filler but there is upside there. Considering everything, Rube did well to get value for Thome.

      2. The constant comments about “he’s the next Kyle Kendrick” are ridiculous. If everyone is right, were gonna have 15 Kyle Kendrick’s by 2015.

        Also, your comment that these guys are “just above org filler status” is asinine. The catcher is 19 freaking years old, how the hell do you or anyone else know what he’ll become with that certainty? And a pitcher who hasn’t even pitched a full season yet is assured of that status?

        Please respond with some first hand knowledge, statistical evidence, or quotes from well respected baseball talent evaluators that back up this frivolous claim and negativity.

        1. Well, for Lino, Sickels rates him as a C prospect…which is basically “just above org filler”.

          For Simon, he simply doesnt have any plus pitches. He’s a guy that relies on location and command, not stuff. His upside simply isnt there. Back of the rotation starter is what all. Sickels gives him a C+ (just above Lino ironically).

          Lino has more upside while Simon has more likelihood of making to the Majors in some form or fashion for at least a cup of coffee. Neither is likely to pan out though for all those reasons.

          It was a good trade but its very important to temper any expectations from either player.

          1. There is no correlation between that grade of a guy this early in their minor league career and org filler. Org filler in my opinion means that a guy has played several years in the minors and has demonstrated over time, and through numerous years of adjustments and modifications to their approach, it is evident they will not be a big league contributor. That is not these guys, although they, like many other prospects, could become that someday. But for now, no.

  6. Lino is the more valuable prospect, from what Amaro has said in the Philly papers. They’re already saying Simon might ultimately be a reliever. Nice to have a catcher to dream on. Also nice to have youth coming in rather than going out. I think I’m one of the few who actually thought the Phillies were shrewd when they tried to restock by trading Lee after trading for Halladay. Lee was one year from free agency. It still might not work out, but if Aumont turns out to be a lock down closer, Ramirez an effective set-up guy who strikes people out, and Gillies a starting center fielder (or some combination of those possibilities), that trade could turn out to be a win. This after Amaro has had to endure being called an idiot all this time. As a result, I think he’s lost his nerve a bit. But now is the time to trade Hamels and Victorino to the desperate Dodgers, who are more than capable of signing both those guys, or at least Hamels. I think you could get Billingsley back (he’s been an overall disappointment for them and he’s now expensive), and they have great young power arms (I’d ask for Zach Lee and Chris Reed). I’d also want Tony Gwynn Jr. for the bench, and would also send them one of our minor league pitchers (but not one of the top ones). I think it’s time for a trade like this. Think Epstein trading Garciaparra. Think Gillick trading Abreu. History favors the bold, and at this point, trading Hamels is the bold thing to do – before it’s too late.

    1. You should be able to get a hell of a lot more back than Chad Billingsley…who isn’t even worth what they are paying him now ($9 million this year and $35 million total through 2014). That would be a terrible trade.

      We dont need more arms, we need position players.

      Who plays 3B next year?
      Who plays CF next year?
      Hell, who plays 2B next year when Utley misses another 80 games?

      Those are the issues, not our temporary bullpen and SP issues.

      Look to 2013, not a desperation try to win in 2012 year. Even if we got your return back, we’re still not a playoff team.

      1. nepp93, You don’t solve all the team’s issues with one trade. And I wouldn’t be trying to make the playoffs this year. There’s nothing about my proposed trade that is desperately trying to win in 2012. How could I possibly suggest trading Hamels and Victorino with the goal being to win this year? The crux of the trade is the power arms Lee and Reed. Billingsley would be a third/fourth starter for two years. Pitching still wins – now and in the future. I’d be trading the more valuable pitcher now to hopefully win in the future. I didn’t mention a single reliever, so I don’t know why you think I’m trying to fix bullpen issues. And if Hamels leaves for nothing, and Halladay and Lee keep digressing, you think our starting pitching issues are going to be temporary? The goal is to get the most value back, regardless of position. I’m aware of third base and center field, but you have to trade Hamels to a team that can sign him (Dodgers) in order to get value back, and the value in the Dodger’s system is starting pitching – and there is nothing more valuable. It is you who is short-sighted by insisting on a third baseman or center fielder (which the Dodgers don’t have). But I’ll play along. What team you going to trade Cole to? And who’s that third baseman and/ or center fielder you’re going to get back that’s going to help you win in 2013? Oh yeah, and you might want to think about replacing Cole in the rotation while you’re at it. And they better come from the Yankees, Red Sox, or Angels (or some team that’s going to be able to sign him) ……….. yeah, that’s what I thought.

        1. Trade Cole to the Rangers for Mike Olt…and probably a couple of lesser pieces. That solves 3B right there. With Vic, you take whatever you can get from whoever bids the most.

          You build around a rotation of Doc, Lee and Worley. Honestly, if Doc or Lee implodes next year or isn’t elite anymore, we’re screwed anyway as Rube built the team around
          the premise that both would stay elite throughout their contracts.

          You have to trade for a 3B because there are zero legit 3B available via free agency. That isnt the case for CF where there is a good half-dozen or more good CF available. It will be a buyers market for CF so Rube can fill that hole with a FA signing.

          As for trading Cole to a team that can sign him for value…that’s not necessarily true as trades like the Sabathia trade in 08 or even the Beltran last year showed. Both returned top 25ish prospects for a short-term rental. The Rangers would likely give up Olt for him even just as a 2 month rental. They look at 2012 as their best chance to win a WS as they have agood number of guys hitting FA next year so this is likely their last chance for
          that group. They also have an incredibly deep system that matches up with our needs. The problem with Billingsley is that he is really overpaid for what you get at this point and salary is already an issue for us even with Cole & Vic leaving. Sure, their salaries go away but we give up another $9 million just in raises to our current players. Add in an unwillingness to go over the the luxury tax and we have maybe $30 million to fill those holes. Allocating 1/3 of it to a 4th starter (what Billingsley is on a good day) isn’t smart spending. Billingsley is basically the equivalent of KK or Blanton…for $12 million a year AAV.

    2. Thankfully, you’re not the GM. Really a shrewd move to trade a top 5 pitcher in MLB for prospects when your goal is to win the world series. These three were not the Mariner’s top prospects and I am sure the Phillies could have done better trading him somewhere else, but were afraid to have to face him later. If memory serves me correct we traded more prospects for Oswalt (which centerfielder would you prefer. gose or gillies?).

      1. Bob I agree with the premise of your argument but is he really a top 5 pitcher right now?

  7. Im excited by Gabriel Lino hes young 19 and ive read good things about him MLB.com has him ranked 11th in thier system. Simon is ranked 20th. Heres what MLB.com says.
    Matt Wieters doesn’t have to look over his shoulder just yet, but if everything comes together for this young backstop, he could be a good one. Lino is big and strong with an above-average to plus throwing arm. At the plate, he’s shown some patience as well as some raw power. All of his tools are in the nascent stages and the Orioles will have to be very patient, with a big payoff down the line a possibility.

  8. Nothing to complain about here, folks, absolutely nothing. I honestly thought they were going to trade Thome purely for salary relief, so the fact that they got a 19 year old catching prospect with some upside is kind of stunning to me, frankly. Neither of these guys may ever amount to anything, but saying goodbye to Thome on good terms was essential from a karmic perspective in my view. Who knows, maybe karma will pay us back with an eventual replacement for Carlos Ruiz?

    1. Thome was traded to Cleveland last year for cash. Any return of prospects was worth while, especially with any upside. Lino is 19! Relax and see what he can do. I was expecting Kevin Gregg, I see this as an upside.

  9. I don’t understand people who are upset with this trade, and Lino is an exciting prospect who is way too young to judge. But if we go off his build and potential, he could be a real steal.

    1. There is zero reason to be upset or excited for it. We got 2 quasi-prospects for a 42 year old DH making basically the league minimum.

      And we got to see a great guy like Jimmy Thome get a shot to be a starter again in the AL. Its win win for both sides.

      1. I feel a catching prospect is the rarest commodity in baseball. Even if Lino doesn’t pan out, he could be a part of a trade package in the future. He’s exciting to have, even if I don’t expect to see any major development out of him for three years.

  10. I like Lino. Having just turned 19 in mid-May, he’s now the Phils youngest hitting prospect in Lakewood, 9 months younger than Franco, with everybody else at least a year older than both of them. Catchers take the longest time to develop making Lino’s youth and skill both offensively and definsively particularly impressive. I think Lino slots ahead of Rupp and behind Valle among the Phillies’ catching prospects.

  11. The only way i trade Hamels is for a top Hitting prospect and top pitching prospect. Rangers do have what i would look for in a trade. They have LHP Martin Perez 6’0 180 – 93-94mph FB, plus changeup, good CB. Ranked 23rd best prospect in MLB by mlb.com says draw comparisons to fellow Venezuelan Johan Santana. Although his numbers dont look very good. They would have to also include 3B Mike Olt 6-2 210 ranked 34th by mlb.com power hitting 3B hitting .304 20HRs, 58RBIS, 46BB, 76Ks this year. I would seriously consider trading Hamels for those 2 guys and who knows Hamels can even come back in FA. If the Rangers were to also throw in CF Leonys Martin. It would be a done deal for me. We would have a big upside LHP to step in for Hamels. A big power hitting 3B to step in for Polanco and a CF to step in for Victorino who are all legit mlb players. Think of all the money that would come off the books as well. Keep dreaming though right i doubt the rangers would throw in 3 of thier top prospects. But if they came to me and really wanted Hamels i would tell them this is what i want.

    1. Package Vic and Hamels and even dangle May if you can get Profar. I would be happy in that 3 for 1.

    2. We wouldn’t be getting Profar, but Olt would be a solid pickup for the Phils and would certainly be better than two draft picks.

      What we need here is a 3-4 team bidding war. The Yankees and Rangers will certainly be interested, as will the Dodgers. The Nats would be foolish not to take shot at reaching a WS and they might have the best variety of prospects to offer in return. The Angels are another.

      As a Phils fan I hate saying this, but injuries have all but derailed this season. A 2-5 week next week and we might as well stop talking about the irrelevance of a Halladay/Howard return

      1. the ‘hate saying this’ part; There is a silver lining of sorts when thinking of the opportunity to revitalize our minor league system. Hamels, Pence, Victorino, Pierre are movable for value in return, minimal or otherwise in the case of Pierre. The other three, Pence particularly, will return more than a fair share, and Hamels and Victorino would receive qualifying offers from the Phils at the very least. If the losing continues thru next week, throw out the for sale sign and start thinking of 2013 as a refresh year for the big club and the farm system

        1. If we want to compete for the playoffs next year, we need to keep Pence. 850 OPS players don’t fall off trees.

      2. The only injury that’s really hurt us has been Halladay. The offense not producing is because of guys like Hunter Pence and Shane Victorino not being able to hit with RISP.

  12. I expect the Phillies to trade prospects for a good set-up right handed relief pitcher, so I’m glad they were able to get a couple of legitimate prospects for Thome. I wish he could have played first base, but as a pinch hitter with Howard and Nix coming back, he is expendable. This was a good move for the Phillies.

    1. Probably the first rational comment made today. That is exactly what the Phillies will do. Wait for Howard and Halladay to come back. See what Utley gives you and trade for a setup guy to secure the bullpen. The Phillies can trade Pence after the season ends, not now if they are trying to make a run at a wild card.

      1. They may make a run at a wild card but it’s unlikely they capture that Wild Card or the 88-90 wins needed for one.

  13. Free up the opportunity now , with Lino in the system, to include Valle in a package to bolster the big club.

    1. The difference being that Valle is considered a legitimate catching prospect (with holes) and Lino is just a lottery ticket whose odds just keep getting longer.

      Compare there Low-A seasons, Valle just crushed the ball there.

      1. Its not about comparative production betwixt the two…its about who will bring the most in a trade back to the club.

      2. Gabriel Lino is not much different than Valle. He’s having a similar season to Valle’s 2009.

        S Valle: A, age 19, avg .223, OBP .313, slg .331, BB% 8.9, K% 20.7, ISO .108
        G Lino: A, age 19, avg .218, OBP .283, slg .342, BB% 7.2, K% 28.7, ISO .124

        Both guys struggled in low A, after jumping from GCL. You can’t get everything from offensive statistics, when evaluating catchers, but some of the same comments that I’m reading about Lino’s defense were said about Valle as well.

        1. Fair point. I think what helped Valle perception was how well he hit at low-A that year, then followed it up with a nice power display the following season.

          1. I think the Phillies could follow the same formula with Lino, that they used with Valle. They could demote him to Williamsport (as they did with Valle) where he is more age appropriate, and allow him to gain confidence going into next year.
            The guy is the same age as Greene, Quinn and Walding. Let him play with them, and go to Lakewood next year.

            1. I wouldn’t be shocked if they did this, but I’d also rather see him at Lakewood because I like Numata more than anyone at Lakewood, and would like to see him get consistent playing time.

            2. The only reason I don’t see them doing that is because I think they like the set of catchers they have at WPT. They probably keep him at LKW where he at least he has familiarity with the league and starts to make adjustments.

    2. Trade the systems only catching prospect that is remotely close to the majors? Chooch will not be able to play into his forty’s.

  14. Next trade, Hamels to the Rangers for Olt. Rube is on a roll, don’t get in his way.

  15. Cole for olt and a low pitcher/position player. We arent going to raid Texas for Cole since he will be a rental. But we can get one top 50 and a few small pcs. olt is the major pc. Hits for ave and power. Texas has said if beltre got hurt bad they would bring him up. He’s a good fielder and smart. Would love this trade.

  16. Can I start beating the drum to get J-Roll out of town? I was on the record saying I did not want him back and don’t care about the past month. The guy is no longer motivated to WIN, and has lost range at ss. Now that he is cashing his checks for four more years, we need to get someone to save us by taking him. Big mistake by RAJ resigning him, huge.

    He needs to go, as does Vic, Pence, Dom Brown, and Cliff Lee. Resign Hamels at the expense of Lee. As bad as we all say Brown’s defense is, I think Pence’s may be equal. Too many holes in his swing and he swings at everything. That was evident in the playoffs. I go back to the Ron Gant days with Atlanta. During the regular season, the guy would mash. When the playoffs roll around, you are very well scouted and you only see the best pitchers on the best teams. Pence puts up good numbers during season, but was exposed last playoffs. We added one more free swinger to a lineup full of them-very disconcerting.

    1. This is a great parody of the sad depths to which the comments section around here has sunk.

      Oh, wait … Your serious?

    2. Rollins is here to stay. His range at SS is still incredible. The Phillis need to look at 3B and OF long term. I like the idea of trading Pence in the off season, only if there is a sound alternative in FA or the system for 5-hole. Not a big fan of giving Hamilton long term and big money contract at 32 yrs old (didn’t we already do that?). Castro (unproven), James (inconsistent), and Gillies (health) look like platoon players right now. Sounds like the team is willing to put Brown in CF next year, but health is an issue. What the team did so well in 2006 and 2007 is bring in players to play platoon role until they proved to be full time players. They just need to follow the same path with younger players while keeping the core together. Mayberry has failed at this and should be traded.

      1. I also want to add that Rollins numbers this year are in-line with his career numbers. Sheesh – I will take Juan Pierre at the plate, but his but he has no business in the OF anymore.

      2. Jimmy isn’t the guy who won an MVP and multiple GGs but he’s still a very good SS…especially with the glove. He probably ends up as a 4 Win player this year. Well worth what they’re paying him.

    3. I don’t know if Gregg has the time to police the comment section or wishes to do so like James did, but I wouldn’t mind it honestly.

  17. “The guy is no longer motivated to WIN, and has lost range at ss.”

    What is this based upon?

    1. Its based upon total lack of knowledge and how Jroll didn’t play well to start the season. If we are going to compete for the playoffs this year and next, we needed to sign Jroll and I still support his signing.

  18. Experienced players who have been there and done it are worth their weight in gold. See Joe Morgan who led the Phillies to the pennant in September after hitting nothing all year. Be grateful for what we have had and stick with it until it ends. I don’t think it is over. The Phils had a horrific 1979, but won in 1980. This season reminds me a lot of 1979 with the bullpen holes and the lack of clutch hitting. Please don’t make reading this wonderful site such a bummer with so many negative comments. Lee is a good pitcher. He will be better. Rollins is proving that he belongs as we speak.

  19. Simon must be better than we all thought– he has already been promoted to Reading!

    This is actually because LHV has a doubleheader today with all relief pitchers, and promoted a few guys (Duke, Whatcott) up there to help out, and therefore needed their own help. I imagine he returns to CLW tomorrow.

  20. I am not sure that anyone posted this already but Justin Friend was promoted to AAA per CSN.philly. Lets hope he does well and can help the Phillies soon.

    1. I thought that was a little ridiculous until I realized that he is the only difference maker on the market (unless the Phils put Lee out there as well), a guy that takes you from playoff contender to championship contender. Also RAJ is entering every trade talk with, we are trading the best pitcher on the market and our right to two first round picks, the minimum is replacing those two picks and negotiations can begin from there. All that and there will be a bidding war.

    2. Ugh, “4 or 5 prospects” makes it sound like the Cliff Lee return again. For the love of God, Rube, one blue-chip prospect. Just get one blue-chip prospect. If they could get Castellanos from the Tigers, I’d be doing somersaults, Aroldis Chapman-style.

      1. Rich, my apologies, the story did say 4-5 prospects which needs to include 2 A+ prospects. Obviously we aren’t going to get two of those plus 3 others, but it’s a he’ll of a place to start the negotiation. I’d be happy with a Singleton, Santana, Zeid, and Cosart return for him.

        1. I wouldn’t. Singleton is the only thing in that package, that the Phillies may miss down the road. I wouldn’t trade Cole Hamels, for anybody’s firstbaseman, unless Cole made it plain he wouldn’t re-sign.

  21. Also, Phils talking about using Rosenberg as a starter again for the duration of this year, at a minimum

    1. I suspect he returns to Philly within the next month as a long man (Kendrick’s original role) especially if at least one starting pitcher is moved, to give them a guy who can go 3-4 in a pinch.

    2. Odd, I always liked him a lot more as a reliever — he pitched much better as such in his minor league career.

      1. Me too but we do have a lot of young relievers despite what happened this season. I don’t think anyone from the group of Bastardo, Stutes, Aumont, DeFratus, Herndon, Diekman, and Schwimer project as well as a potential starter as he does. And with May’s struggles the last two months, he looks less ready to compete in April for a 5th starter role, so maybe BJ can be in that mix.

      1. Probably not as bad as the nightmares all of us are still having from watching him this year….

  22. Another team that would be after Cole would be Detroit. That went big this year and are now trailing, they definitely would want Cole and would pay big. Maybe a bidding war ensues. One can hope.

  23. The idea is, yes, to having a bidding war. There are probably 7-8 teams which would try to outdo each other for this #1 pitcher with years to go on his body and arm. The way he throws—with controlled effort–augurs a long career ahead and is a premier lefty which are as rare as Cholly bunting with a man on third and less than 2 out.

    He would/should bring back at least two prime, super-dooper prospects ready to debut in the bigs, AND a couple-three of other guys who are close to being superior players. Cole is as close an insurance policy that could payoff big for a WS championship for several teams.

    Further, the minor lgs’ season is half over and up-to-date scouting would reveal the best players for consideration. The Phils’ payoff should also be strong.

    I nominate the haul to be: 3rd base, left/center field, pitcher, pitcher, and maybe a catcher if possible. For the sake of the numbers looking good for the trading team, we should throw in somebody like Overbeck, etc.

    Our favorite team is very needy.

    1. c’mon. they aren’t getting 2 A+ prospects plus more for a half season rental of Hamels. his long career ahead means nothing in trade negotiations because his value right now is only the half season he is signed for. if they can get Olt and a good relief prospect from Texas they should jump on it now.

  24. Take a hint: in our “free market” economy, competition SHOULD yield the best results.

    Competition for a guy who could lead teams to a WS is a very valuable product on the market,…right now the BEST pitcher who could do that: Cole.

    No bag of beans, This should be a BIG one!

    Wait and see! Check back here when things go down…I’ll guarantee more than that will be coming to Philly.

    1. and i guarantee less than what you predict will be coming to philly. they might get more prospects in total number, but they aren’t getting anywhere near what you think. he could be the greatest pitcher that ever lived, and his value is still only a half of a season. you can just go back and look at other similar trades, like Cliff Lee to the Rangers, and see that you are only getting one A+ prospect. with Ruben doing the dealing we might get less than that. for an entire season of Cliff Lee we got ZERO top level prospects.

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