Draft Tracker

I have compiled what public info I could and read everyone’s comments in the Draft Day Three post.  Please let me know if you all have any more info that should be included.  Signing dates are from Phillies site on MLB.com.  Bonuses are from published reports.  Click the graphic to enlarge.

Updated 6-19-12 with ZTaylor and ZCooper signed and Pullin bonus slightly over slot, which I then changed back.  Also noted Nichols signed, and backed out slot money for the guys in rd 1-10 who haven’t signed from the “Difference”, since there’s no way to apply that to later round guys.

Updated 6-22-2012 with a seemingly better weight for Carmona and the Green signing/bonus.

Update 6-27-2012 with Anderson, Carmona and Hanson, and a couple of signing dates from Phillies.com, plus updated bonus amounts.

Update 6-29-2012 – Fixed the graphic to show the correct dates for Anderson and Sisto, which I had botched last time, and added the date for Carver.

Update 7-3-2012 – Article in azcentral.com quoting ASU coaching staff, lists Blanford as signed.  BA and Phillies do not have him signed, but it seems solid.

Update 7-13-2012 – Taking out Blanford.  Brookover reporting Phils sign 24 total, which is everyone besides Blanford, who never appeared anywhere but the AZ media report with his college coach saying he signed.

Update 7-15-2012 – Changed Carmona’s bonus from $125k to the revised figure from BA, which is now showing $100k.

Update 7-20-2012 – extra couple teen-round bonuses.

If anyone wants a link to any of the articles I mention in the notes, let me know and I will post them.  Nothing new in there – I’m only saving down what others have posted here or in the Draft Day 3 post.

264 thoughts on “Draft Tracker

  1. Thanks Brad!

    Really disappointed that Cousins was paid slot – seems that almost nobody outside of the Phils had him ranked anywhere near that high, and with the attitude issues that have been reported, I’m not sure I’d have wanted him if he had been ranked that high anyway. Seemed like the perfect candidate to save a few hundred grand on.

    1. I’m not sure I like the Cozens pick either, but the assumption that the team would save money on him was flawed from the beginning. For some reason the Phillies wanted this guy badly. Actually, considering the guy had division I scholarships to both football and baseball, it should take every penny of his slot to get him to walk away from being big man on campus for 4 years.

    2. We’ve heard nothing about “attitude issues” involving Cozens. We heard one side of a story about an incident involving a 16-year-old kid.

      1. Beerleaguer has an article where Law is quoted about a story where Cozens shoved his HS coach. That’s ballsy if true; but it doesn’t mean he won’t be able to mature.

    3. Like the guy on Beerleaguer said, something like “whoever heard of a foul-mouthed big leaguer with attitude issues”? that sums it up, I think.

      1. In my opinion, one incident as a high schooler doesn’t mean the kid has a bad attitude. Also, they don’t give out baseball scholarships at Arizona to kids that don’t have ability. Lastly, I talked with my boss(a former pitching scout for the Dbacks) after the draft and asked him about Cozens. His response in describing him is the kid is “nails”. Not to be confused with Lenny Dykstra.

            1. Also, it means he is a stud athlete as evidenced by the fact he was recruited for football and baseball.

  2. Thanks….excellent work! I kind of feel bad for Ludy i think he couldve got a few more bucks! I hope he doesnt see this chart.

    1. According to a story in the Star Press a couple days ago, Ludy received more than 3 times as much as he expected. He expected to sign for 1,000-5,000 and was grateful when they gave him $15,000.

      1. I did read that…maybe he needs a better advisor…but if hes happy…who am i to say different

    1. i haven’t seen it official or in an article as fact. Is he one of those where they think it’s going to happen but they haven’t agreed on a bonus? Pls post a link if you know more than i do.

  3. On Brody Colvin, Bob Brookover Article:
    ‘Jordan and roving pitching coordinator Gorman Heimueller decided to play a little mind game with Clearwater’s Brody Colvin in an effort to help the struggling righthander get back on track. Colvin was removed from the rotation late last month and pitched five straight games in relief.
    “He was still getting the same amount of innings every week for the most part . . . but we were not telling him when he was throwing,” Jordan said. “We told him to prepare and be ready and just tried to clear his mind. We told him not to worry about five or six innings. We wanted him to pitch an inning or two and have fun . . . and he did a pretty good job with it.”
    So far, it seems to be working. Colvin, 21, allowed just two runs in five relief appearances that covered nine innings, then allowed just two hits and a run in six innings in his return to the rotation Tuesday night.’

  4. Zachary Taylor and Zachary Cooper are signed according to BA chart. Somebody posted Taylor signing on a video on the draft thread and , in fact, Cooper is on the Williamsport roster.

  5. There has been no indication that Rash has signed. Only an article where Wolever said a deal was close. Zachary Green denied having signed last night on twitter too.

  6. Rash and Green should get done, at their slots I doubt they will pass on the money. Wonder how much money we’ll have left to make a run at a guy like Starwalt. Remember we can go over by 5% without getting reamed too hard.

    1. I heard a rumor saying that the Phils were gonna get Starwalt signed. Take it for what you will.

  7. I’m starting to worry about Alec Rash. There are some guys, rated near him, getting 750k-1.3m, in the last couple days. By my calculations, the Phillies can go about 510K over-slot, without losing draft picks next year. I’d prefer they use all of the money on Rash, than haggling with Greene, a lower rated position player.

      1. I wouldn’t count on the $265k. Apparently Zach Green will go over slot and who knows about Rash? That $265k number could shrink quite a bit.

    1. Signing Starwald, Kyle Cody, Evan Van Hoosier or any other top high school drafted in the later rounds appears to be a real long shot. These guys have strong college commitments and there isn’t going to be much bonus pool money available to make an enticing offer.

      1. They’re not going to sign Starwalt. I don’t know why that keeps coming up. You need a million dollars to get a guy away from a Stanford scholarship. They won’t have enough, if any, to sign anybody outside the top 10 to more than 100K.

        1. Agree, Starwalt isn’t going to sign. There is a reason a pitcher of his caliber lasted until Round 37.

  8. Appreciate the work, Brad. Mostly because I didn’t have time to get around to it! Thanks for doing it!

  9. I am trying to understand the new draft pool money, and if i understand, the drafting of kids like cody, is really useless cause if you offer them big money, and go over your allotment then you get penalized. so isnt it better to draft college seniors to fill out your minor league system, i would go for utlity types and relief pitchers hoping to get lucky, instead of wasting my choices. on unsignable kids,

  10. Will be interesting to see how this draft class shakes out over time but from what i’ve read and heard it sounds like it could be a fun class to follow. Looking forward to seeing some Crosscutter games hopefuly.

    I wonder if Ludy will be in the lineup for Lakewood by next weekend as the series is on Milb.tv so would be cool to get to see him in action as I liked what I saw in a couple games this past couple weeks.

  11. While every draft is important to a team’s future and every short season league is intriguing to get a first look at most of the players drafted in the past two seasons, I feel like this year’s GCL and Williamsport teams hold extra importance for the Phillies’ future. If you simply look at our prospects at A, A+, AA, and AAA, there are really not any star level guys, especially at position player. I very much like Domonic Brown, Sebastian Valle, Cesar Hernandez, Leandro Castro, Zach Collier, Cody Asche, Cameron Rupp, and Harold Martinez, but I don’t see anyone in that group that could be the next Chase Utley / Ryan Howard type player. That is not a knock on these guys, I believe several of them will be solid major league players, but they don’t look like superstar guys. The one guy I left off this list is Mikael Franco because I believe he is the one guy that could be, but is struggling with Low A ball this year. I believe his MiLB performance will greatly improve as he becomes more age appropriate for his leagues going forward.

    The performance this short season is so vital because the Phils really need one or two guys to come forward from this group and have that potential – a legitimate big time power tool prospect like Larry Greene Jr, a stud leadoff hitting prospect that plays a premium position like Roman Quinn, a legitimate 5 tool OF prospect like Carlos Tocci, etc. The fact of the matter is none of these guys have had the opportunity to do anything yet to prove themselves as legit prospects and every team has a list just like this that they hope will be big time prospects. The next 2-3 months will go a long way to determining what the future looks like for some of these guys.

    How does this impact the big league team’s decision to be buyers or sellers? Probably not at all, that will be determined by things like games back, and who is on the DL and who is off the DL, how many teams are in front of us for the wildcard, and just how many years and dollars do guys like Hamels and Victorino want. Will their performance make guys at AAA, AA, and A ball more available for deals? I don’t believe so, I don’t think, and I don’t think the Phils think they can afford to trade any more prospect pieces away. Last year there was a playoff certainty and wagering the future to try and win was worth it, this year it would be crazy. In a season like this, the trade deadline additions should be named Utley and Howard and Halladay and Nix and Stutes and Aumont and Brown, and guys like Biddle and May and Brown and Valle and Hernandez and Franco and Asche and Aumont and Pettibone and others should be virtually untouchable.

    I believe all of the great, loyal, and knowledgeable followers on this site will have a drastically different view of “The State of the Phuture Phillies” by July 31st. We will have more than a full month behind us of short season baseball. We will know a lot more about whether the organization was a buyer or a seller, and what we gave up or acquired as a result of those moves. Obviously the best case scenario is a 2012 World Series Title, but in my opinion a distant second best case scenario would be a view that a long term, sustainable future for the Phillies is realistic and likely. The optimistic side of this scenario would be 1) a resurgent Dom Brown at AAA tearing the cover off the ball, 2) breakout perfromances by 2 or more guys in the short season league heading towards top 100 prospect status within the next 12 months, 3) continued strong progression of pitching prospects like Biddle and May as they look towards 2013/2014 arrivals, 4) a trade or two from the major league roster that net returns of a stud 3B prospect and more, 1 or 2 of which are top 100 guys today. On the flip side, things could go the other way and the future would be in real question. These next 2 months should be very, very interesting.

  12. yeah joe , i dont like to be capped in the draft, too many chances to get talent if you spend the money. the cap stinks. who cares if boston spends 15 million in draft. long as we spend the money to bring in talent, to help our team.

    1. But you realize that the Phils had a self-imposed cap under the previous system and usually were in the bottom 1/3 of draft spending over the past several seasons, right?

      Over the long haul, the new bonus pool system should benefit the lower spending teams like the Phils..

      1. I thought the Phillies did a nice job last year getting guys like Greene and Schull to sign. But in previous years they should’ve made more efforts to sign tough signs. A part o the low number spent is the fact that the Phillies get their first pick in the sandwich round and obviously won’t spend in the 2+ millions to sign those guys.

  13. Alec Rash will get an up-close look at what his future might hold this week. The ADM of Adel right-handed pitcher and his dad Mike will travel to Minnesota tomorrow to see the Twins take on the Philadelphia Phillies. Mike Rash said Wednesday that team officials have told the family they’d like to sign their other draft picks first to see how much money they’ll have avaiable to offer his son. Once an offer is made, [Alec Rash] will have to decide on between signing with the Phillies or heading to Missouri where he’s committed to playing next season. Mike Rash said he didn’t expect a decision to be made anytime soon.

    1. Something that could be a consideration for the Rash (#95) pick, is to allow him not to sign because it is a protected pick. Even though they don’t get to use Rash’s 500K spot, they recoup the pick next year and that allows them to use the 263K savings they have to sign a Tony Blanford or David Hill type. That may be a sort of backup plan for Rash.
      So you have Blanford and a 2nd round pick next year or Alec Rash.

  14. I like to pose a question, if you had your choice who would you rather pay 700,000 to rash or cozens, wonder who will be right in 5 years?

    1. I would do Rash just because I prefer having pitching prospects. That being said, Cozens has every shot at becoming a ridiculous power hitter.

    2. Without knowing how good either of them are or seeing them play, I would take the hitter as the attrition rate for young pitchers is higher than for young hitters.

    3. I’ll go with Rash. I’m no expert but you’ve got one guy who was a consensus Top 100 draft eligible prospect (Rash) and another guy who didn’t make anybody’s Top 500 draft eligibile prospects list. I know, I know the publication lists aren’t gospel but it is stupid to think that they aren’t better than random or nothing. So I’ll go with their view.

    4. Here’s the assumption I operate under: The Phillies front office is A) More informed and B) More Intelligent then ANYONE on this board. Probably than all of us combined. With that in mind, I ALSO assume that they had a very good reason for selecting Cozens over Rash and I’m sure it wasn’t because they are stupid or that they think it’s funny to piss off dudes who post on Phillies blog sites.

      1. In other words….we should shut down the site since all opinions contrary to the Phillies managment decisions are clearly wrong and not worth discussing.

        1. This site is for learning about and following the Phillies prospects, not for amateur scouts like you to opine on who the Phillies should have drafted and/or signed.

        2. Ha. That’s kind of hyperbolic don’t you think? Basically here’s the deal. If you don’t think Cozens was a good pick that’s fine. All I want is reasoned logic WHY you don’t like the pick. What I don’t want is blind attacks at the front office for being cheap, stupid or uninformed. No one here has the kind of insight into the front office to make a declaration like that. You, I, no one else has any clue how many times the Phillies went and looked at that kid. Or the interviews that took place. Or the testimonials they got. Since that’s the case you can’t make IGNORANT declarations about their intelligence in the matter.

          P.S. “You” is not you Squire. But the universal “You” being people who DO blast the front office for being stupid, etc and acting like they know more about scouting then a Major League baseball team.

          1. In addition to that group pretending they know more about scouting, the vast majority of them have never even ONCE seen the player that they are so expertly picking for the team!

          2. Joe – I kind of see your point. But this forum was also not in favor of the Hewitt signing, nor were they thrilled about the Hudson signing. Both have struggled for a lot of the same reasons people feared. The scouting reports doubted their hit tool while touting their athleticism.

            We have another two sport athlete that more than publication considers a reach at that round. Ths one comes with character issues as well.

            1. As I said, I have no problem with concise and logical objection. It’s the reactionary “They are stupid. They don’t even have a saber guy. I know more then them. Some guy on a website said this prospect is better” stuff that annoys me.

              Also, the thing is, it seems like the Phillies always make up for these picks in the later rounds. Or, what happens when we get Matt Kemp? Will it then be worth 7 years of wasted first round picks to get someone like that?

            2. And as I say that Cozens hit’s his first HR.

              I’ve been in favor of the Phils draft strategy for a long time. But it comes a time for some of this potential to produce.

            3. I think that last statement sums up a lot of folks feelings on this board, and points out a general misunderstanding of the draft and/or the minor league system. If a team pulls 2-3 major league players out of a draft year, it is a successful draft. Draft a single star, and it becomes hugely successful. Many people on this board expect every pick to become a star. That is just not how it works. The Phillies strategy, like it or not, is high risk/high reward. They are going to miss much more often than they hit, that is just reality. Expecting them to hit on every draft pick is fairly ridiculous.

            4. As someone who has been reading and occasionally posting for 4 years on this site, I personally find the criticism of the Phillies draft approach, when it happens, to be far more wide ranging and nuanced. There are all kinds of critics here and all kinds of comments.

              For example, while I don’t agree with much of the criticism of specific players that are picked, I am critical of what I consider putrid draft spends in 2009 and 2010. I think they picked a bunch of low talent, and easy to sign college players as part of a deliberate effort to keep their spending low. That doesn’t mean I am anti-Phillies, or think they are stupid (in general).

              To your point however, I do tend to stay away from criticism over who they picked unless it is an obvious discussion point. For example, we all like Jesse Biddle, but the Phillies passed on Nick Castellanos for him. Why? We know it was because Biddle was willing to sign for slot and Castellanos wanted $3M to sign. That had far more to do with it than pure talent.

              As far as the Cozens pick specifically, I didn’t really have a problem with it. I liked the Cozens pick more than I liked the Kelly Dugan pick in 2009. The farm system desperately needed an infusion of power bats…or just bats in general…and Cozens fits that bill, along with Larry Greene Jr and some of the other guys they took in 2011 and 2012.

              As far as Squires comment responding to a direct question, I think his logic is correct that Rash seems to have the better claim to being worth a $700K bonus over Cozens based on the way the MLB draft works and the pre-draft reputation that Rash built up with the scouting community vs. Cozens.

              Personally, I don’t care what any Phillies draft pick signs for as long as the best ones actually get signed.

              P.S…Not sure what you mean when you said the Phillies “always make up for it in the later rounds.” Not sure who specifically you are using as examples, but I would be interested in knowing of what players you speak of. I think it has become urban legend (on this site specfically) that somehow the Phillies are killing the later portions of the draft with these darkhorse future stars and somehow these late picks are going to be the ones that get the torch passed to them from the stars at the MLB level today. The great Phillies clubs from 2003 thru 2011 were built largely with Top 50 to Top 150 draft picks. Premium blue chip talent. Not late round draft picks.

            5. Complaining about money spent is totally valid. Also, I’m sure they picked Cozens over Rash for a reason. We just have no clue what that is and speculation is just that. Speculation. “Later rounds” is a misnomer. First 10 rounds. How about that.

  15. Thanks for doing this. Was becoming a pain looking all over the place for this information.

    Also, can you clarify the part about needing to click to be able to read it? If you mean click the jump to read it then yeah, that would be impressive if you could read it without clicking. However, if you’re talking about clicking it to enlarge it, I can read it without enlarging it.

    1. It was super small on my screen without clicking through the graphic. I guess different screen settings could be at work here. Or you “sight” tool is like an 80.

  16. Carmona’s Stony Brook team eliminated from the College World Series and, thus, Carmona is now eligible to sign.

  17. Heads up for anybody that has WNEP2 in their cable or dish package…..Williamsports game on Monday is going to be carried live at 7pm.

  18. Have not posted in forever due to James’ policing of the site. Love reading the site but did not want to be the cause of an ‘off-topic’ post.
    But from reading this site for years, I am no intrigued by the draft, even more so this year when every team is playing with known payment constraints. I no longer have to hear posters say to sign every player regardless of cost (like Stalwart would be this year) because he might be great.

    For some of these ‘star’ high school players, they need to decide if the risk of college will knock them out of their high value position. And really anything after the 5th round (Top 150 players) is not going to net a draftee much more than the $100K allowable. I think smart teams should draft possible signable targets (like Pointer was) then offer about $200K with the rationale that if a prospect is not in the Top150 as a College Junior their bonus will not be any better.

    Still would have been nice to have Cozens cheaper to offer a carrot for late round high-schoolers but I like the strategy of going after big tools. The flameout rate will be huge but finding replacement style players (like most of the current Phillies bullpen) is tremendously easier than cost of star players, especially with Phillies current budget.

      1. I absolutely would want James’ input over mine! Still do!
        I just have a tendency to go off topic and respected the community James built here too much to accidently (long-windedly) send the post into a terrible spiral with my drivel!

  19. Question for the group.
    What are the cost constraints for players not drafted?
    Can high school players who are not drafted be signed for ‘any’ amount? (I would think this option would be a major loophole.)
    Or do all non-drafted players follow the ‘late round’ requirement of $100K or less amount and any extra is penalized?

    Might be a reason to draft some ‘unsignable’ HS players to avoid another team from getting them. Also, never know when a kid’s situation will change.

    1. Also you only become a free agent if you declare for the draft and are undrafted, for example if you are dead set on going to college you can opt out of the draft at which point you do not become a free agent and teams cannot just try and spend you away from school.

  20. Signee’s playing in the GCL this afternoon:

    (5th) 3b Perkins
    (6th) DH Z Taylor
    (8th) RF Cozens

    1. In his second AB, Cozens up with man on 3rd, less than 2 out. He strikes out.

      Appears to be fitting right in from the start.

      1. Can we cut the kid some slack its his first REAL game as a PRO. I am sure there are some nerves and jitters plus a little pressure to produce!

          1. Eh, it’s obvious you were joking. But seriously, have you seen some of the AWFUL posters on here recently? They probably think you were serious and respond with something like “You’re right. FIRE RAJ! HAVE SEX WITH PG!!11″

      2. Isn;t this great….current draftees are plaing pro ball before the first day of summer. They should have done the draft, with the new CBA rules, this way years ago.

  21. It now appears that BA has edited Andrew Pullin to a slot salary of $203,900 and not the 215K that was there last night or this morning.

    1. Probably better to ask that in the box scores or general discussion section. We’re all talking about the draft in here.

  22. Just asking because I forgot what ppl thought of L Greene drafted at 39 overall for $844,200 last year. Reason is it seems Greene and Cozens have the same type of tools and that is POWER and received $659,800 almost 200K less. IMO the biggest difference between LG ranked and Cozens NOT is because of his incident with his Coach and switching schools…. Wonder where he would be if that never happened and how different some of the comments would change!

    1. They said Greene had the best Power tool of any high schooler in his draft class. I don’t know that Cozens was the top power bat in his High School draft class but that’s what was said about Greene.

  23. bergeraj, thats a interesting question, wonder what he did think and if there is a way to find out if cozens, was ranked by ba before the incident?

  24. I am going to say it again. Cozens broke his school’s record for HR in a year by blasting 19 this year, about 5 more than the old record holder, Paul Konerko. As of right now he has 2 more hits and 1 HR (and 3 rbi)d more than Larry Greene. The reason I have been all over this kid is because I am aware of the qualities of his HS football coach who instilled a work ethic and brought out some inherent character in the kid. I think he will be a stud for us and as for taking him over Rash, I suspect they felt like he was a much easier sign as has turned out to be the case. I disagree with Squire on this point, but I disagree with anyone who presumes to tell Squire what the point of this board is as I have been reading and appreciating Squire’s opinions and analysis for probably going on ten years. He is the dean of internet opinion on the Phillies and our draft/farm system IMO.

    Finally, read on TOS that Zach Green has tweeted that he will be heading to Philly to sign Wednesday.

    1. Just wanted to second your opinion on Squire. I followed his comments silently for years. The guy has been a tremendous asset for me when it came to draft information and analysis over the years.

  25. Baseball America has updated it’s team draft database to allow the subscriber’s to calculate each draft picks maximum salary over-slot and their max salary without costing the team a draft pick.
    Alec Rash: Max salary within pool is $763,700 and it’s $1,004,628 without surrendering draft pick.
    Daniel Starwalt: Max salary within pool is 363,700 and it’s $604,628 without surrendering draft pick

    Looks like the Phillies can go over their pool by $240,928, if they do not mind paying 75% tax on that amount.

    1. In total (75% tax included) that would be $421,624. That’s nothing for a baseball team, especially not for such a successful one as the Phillies. If that’s what it takes to sign them, they’ll do that. But anything more than that is too much. Money can be made, draft picks cannot, and draft picks are at a premium these days.

      1. I agree with you, and I would love to believe the Phillies agree with you. I am hoping RAJ has seen the light and turned the corner after the spending debacles of 2009 and 2010. And especially now that the system has been re-configured to benefit conservative draft spending teams like the Phillies.

    2. The max value within pool/without surrendering draft pick also assumes that only one of them signs. If Rash signs for $1M as an example, then they would only have $104,628 to sign Starwalt without losing future picks.

      1. Exactly right. Green is signing in the next couple of days. Hopefully he doesn’t drain the pool too much. At this point I would be happy with Green, Carmona and Rash. Everything beyond that is gravy.

        Are we sure that we would get pick #96 next year if Rash doesn’t sign? I haven’t read the new CBA.

        1. Well , looked it up. Most of the old BA articles only listed changes to the CBA, so some of the old stuff was not covered. However, found one by Callis and J.J. Cooper that listed as one of the changes: Teams get an extra year of protection for failure to sign players in the first 3 rounds.

          1. Right…the extra year thing there being important as well. So, IF they don’t sign Rash (or any pick in the first three rounds), they get the #96 pick in 2013. That pick is ALSO protected, so they would then get the #97 pick in 2014 IF they don’t sign the 2013 pick. If they don’t sign the 2014 pick, that’s it. Pretty significant change actually when it comes to bargaining with the 2013 pick.

        2. Squire, I agree with you. I would be satisfied with this draft if they sign Rash, Green and Carmona.

          The scenario that I hope plays out, is they sign Rash to 750-762K, sign Green close to slot, then use the 240K(taxable amount) they have over the pool amount, to sign a David Hill or Tony Blanford for 340K .

      1. I found 5’11” 225 just now on the BA scouting report and changed it for the next time I update the graphic. The old number came from mlb I think, Phils draft page. Is 6′ 230 official somehow? Clearly 185 is wrong. I’m 5’11” 225 (ish) and there’s no way that guy is 40 lbs smaller than me.

  26. greg you sure? then i can draft a hard to sign high school kid everyyear in the 2-3 round and hope he signs if not use the money on another draft choice and get the third pick again, doent sound right to me. so if you draft a kid and low ball him in a down draft year, and he wont sign you get extra pick next year, or the next

    1. You don’t get to use the money on another draft choice. You lose the slot value in that draft.

    2. Squire is right, but yeah. Appel is the example of this that everybody was talking about after the draft. The Pirates could sign him for slot or slightly above. If he wants $5M plus, the Pirates can tell him to pound sand, use their extra pool money (not the $3M or so from the 8th pick, but the extra money from the picks they signed) to get a high school kid they drafted after round 10 for about a million, and then get the 9th pick next year. That pick will also be protected.

      1. Which is insane. If you offer a player the slot baseball sets out and they refuse to sign you should be compensated. Maybe with half of the slot going into your pool or something.

        1. You are compensated…with an extra pick in the next draft. There are a bunch of ways to game the system if they allow money to go back into the pool.

  27. Okay so I read where we signed green and went something like 30 thousand over, what does that leave to go after rash? i am so confused, does anyone know??

    1. Assuming that you are right that we went 30,000 over on Zach Green then we could offer Alec Rash $733,700 without paying a penalty tax. We could offer him $974,628 but would also have to pay the league a penalty tax of about $181,000 to the league but we would not lose any draft picks.

  28. Here is a blurb about a Scout saying Z. Green agreed on a contract but nothing says “signed”

    “Green, who attended Jesuit High School in Sacramento, was the third-round selection of the Phillies and is projected to play shortstop, as he was going to play for OSU. Though he isn’t listed as signed by the team, a scout has told reporters that an agreement on a signing bonus has been reached.”

    http://www.registerguard.com/web/sports/28236294-41/kelly-round-baseball-college-ducks.html.csp

    1. Also in the same post there are a few comments on Pullin, other than moving him to 2nd he can pitch a little and with either hand…. Interesting!

  29. I would say that is pretty clear he has been wrapped up pending his physical today. Speculating at a little over $400K as a bonus, so how much does that leave for Rash? I hated math. Also, anyone have an idea how much the Phillies can give Carmona without incurring penalty?

    1. From my calculations with Green signing at $420,000 leaves 722,100 to sign Rash without penalty, then another 236,500 before losing a pick…. Give or take a few 100

      1. Baseball America says that the Phillies have another $240,928 they can use, without losing a pick.

        Also, if the Phillies offer 722K to Rash, that would be equivalent to slot for the 71st pick. Rash was ranked #72 by Baseball America. Maybe there is a method to this.

      2. This is really picking nits, but I have the Phils’ savings at $218,100 right now, meaning they can spend $718,100 on Rash without incurring any penalties.

        Here’s hoping he signs for less than that and we pick up some of those names VOR mentioned.

  30. Starting to wonder about Carmona. Ludy signed within a couple of days of the end of his college baseball season at Baylor. Haven’t heard anything about Will yet.

    1. Wasn’t he a junior? So doesn’t he have the leverage of saying I can still go back to school for one more year?

    2. I wouldn’t worry about Carmona. I think he’ll sign. He might be just tired from the CWS run and wants a little break. Ludy was a different situation because they “needed” to get him signed so they could what I’ll call “lock in” the underslot savings (so that he couldn’t jerk them around later). They can’t generate any savings with Carmona but you figure they had a verbal deal with him. They probably made signing immediately part of Ludy’s verbal deal. Just my speculation though.

  31. Interesting to note that Richard Bielski, the 14th round pick out of HS who has already signed, is a year and two months younger than Watson. Apparently he is up to 94. Definitely a name to keep in the back of your head.

  32. Richard Bielski can only sign for 100.000 or is that wrong, still trying to figure out the new system,??

    1. Anybody after the 10th round can sign for $100,000 without a penalty to the team. Anything over $100,000 is subtracted from the bonus pool for the first ten rounds.

      Example: The Phillies have $4.9 M to spend on their first 10 rounds (12 picks). Suppose they sign all 12 players for $4.5 M. They can now go $400,000 over the $100,000 slot of picks from rounds 11-40. Not per pick, but total (so they could sign one guy at $500K or 4 guys at $200K).

  33. Someone let us know when you see a bonus confirmed for Green and I will re-post the graphic with the calculations.

    1. Brad…do you know if the site will have a player-by-player analytical report, with vitals/scouting reports and projections.

      1. No idea. I know I am not doing one, since I am not close to knowledgable about prep and college kids.

    2. Zach Green is now in “BOLD” on Baseball America draft tracker. He signed for 420K. The Phillies now have 218K left for overslots, within their pool allotment. Plus 240K taxable amount, before losing picks.

      1. Great. Rash’s slot amount is 500k so my guess is they sign him for 600k (a little less than Cozens) which leave them 100k – 340k to use without losing any draft picks.

        1. My guess is they have to pay Rash at least 718K, due to his status. Outside of ESPN, he was rated higher than Gueller by everyone. Received comparisons to Hellickson.
          I’d give the guy 950K, if that is what it took. I doubt the Phillies do that, because they have a little leverage based on it being a protected pick.

          1. Im not sure that gives phils leverage because rash is going to to care if they get another pick for him…if he wants big bucks or thinks he can do better next year then thats what hes going to do

            1. You are right. Rash won’t care if the pick is protected, but it is still a factor in the Phillies choice to offer the max amount. If they thought they couldn’t get the pick back, they would be more inclined to do whatever, to get the guy signed.
              The leverage is, they have a viable alternative.

            2. I see what you are saying…i wouldve went more safety net or golden parachute as opposed to leverage…either way i hope they sign him!

  34. when you say penalty, say its the 35 round pick, and we go over to sign him, is the penalty a losted 35 pick or something else.?

    1. IF they go over the entire pool amount by less than 5%, it is a 75% tax on the overage.
      If they go over by between 5% and 10% they forfeit a 1st round pick. Over by 10% to 15% they forfeit a 1st and 2nd. Over by more than 15% they forfeit the next 2 1st round picks.

      1. So, bottom-line, 4% will be the max overage for most if not all clubs…none want to lose a first round pick.

  35. Thank you marfis, that is a lot to think about when you like a prospect,and go over to give up a 1st or second is a lot for any prospect.

          1. Anderson is in “BOLD” on the Baseball America database, but does not have the idicator (like Golden) that notes 100K bonus. Must have received less.

    1. I will add this signing to the list next time it’s posted. Let me know if anyone sees a signing bonus.

        1. Christ. For all you know they have a slot deal set up with Rash. You have no clue. No one will until July 1+.

            1. I’ve been really defensive recently. The amount of idiots on this board has multiplied exponentially.

            2. Honestly the fact that the Phillies went over on Carmona has me more convinced that they have an in-draft deal with Rash and knew how much they could over on someone else after the 10th round

      1. Per BA Phillies now only have 193K to offer over-slot, before incurring tax penalties.

  36. According to today’s philly.com MLB rules vis-a-vis Iowa have prevented Rash from signing before July 1. Zach Green has been assigned to GCL according to GCL transactions. Have seen nothing on Carmona, but have a suspicion that B. Stassi moving up to Lakewood might be a factor in that, have to look deeper on the other moves surrounding that.

    1. Could be. If they worked out a deal beforehand with Rash and that’s all OK, then they might work in a couple. I see they signed D. Anderson according to an above report. Maybe they work some in , but maybe just Rash, Carmona, Carver, maybe Anderson, the rosters are getting kind of full now so can deal with that.

  37. I wish Rash’s pops, who seems to be the spokesman, would come out and confirm that is the hold-up. Also would like to see Carmona get done.

    1. I thought somebody put this up a few feet above. Anyway, looks like Summer runs out around July 13 for this situation. For some reason , was thinking he was Right Handed.
      But being Left Handed and 6’9 255, what’s not to like. Might as well try him out.

      1. I don’t see this posted anywhere else in this thread. Perhaps in another thread?

        Yep, Wieck has about 3 weeks to show them what he’s got. Definitely an interesting late rounder, still only 20 years old.

        1. Yeah, it was not in this thread. I believe it was in Draft Day 3 , Looks the guy who puts up all the “Draft Day” links didn’t migrate over to this thread.

  38. I think the tommy john surgery makes me want to sign him more. if i am not mistaken most come back from that surgery, throwing harder?

    1. More than that, both Baseball America and Phillies website has both as signed, and BA finally got around to bolding in Hanson, so there should be a change topside soon.

  39. I was looking up Tony Blanford. Apparently his FB is 88-90 but can touch 93, he has a potential plus curve and feel for a change. He wasn’t allowed to finish his HS season with his team for “unspecified reasons”. Oh, the intrigue! He sounds like he has a strong commitment to ASU, but one never knows.

  40. Hey, Mr. DC, looks like you did not put Anderson as signed on 6/27 as you said in your notes above the tracker. Looks like you left him as unsigned and replaced Matthew Sisto’s real signing date with Anderson’s.

      1. A way of having this linked that is easy to find, possibly in the top bar with the “home / faq / shwimmer posts / top 30 / etc”

        1. Ok, I get it – I asked Gregg if he can add a page for 2012 to the menu at the top so we can link to all four draft posts.

  41. So if I understand correctly what has been said on this board, tomorrow (July 1) the Phillies can actually sign Rash? Or do they have to wait till “after” July 1?

    1. Rash’s High School team reached some kind of late July, Championship tournament, in Iowa. He may not want to sign until the deadline, so he can be with his team, as long as possible.

  42. According to http://www.azcentral.com/sports/asu/articles/20120627asu-baseball-7-recruits-sign-with-pros.html, Tony Blanford (18th Rd) has signed. I’m HIGHLY skeptical of this report, as I can’t find anything else on him signing and the article was from several days ago. The main reason is that he would be a HUGE signing…

    “Tony Blanford (Phoenix, AZ) is rated No. 63 in the country by ESPN. The right-handed pitcher from Boulder Creek High School boasts a low-90’s fastball and has very good size (6’3) for a pitcher. ESPN ranks Blanford as the second best player in the state of Arizona, and the No. 21 pitcher in the country.”

    1. Since this comes from Arizona State’s website, what is their motivation to claim one of their recruits has signed if they have not. Especially in an article that is a rundown of the status of all their recruits. ESPN ratings, where do they come from. Maybe they hired somebody off the street to scour articles and guess where these guys belong on a master list. I know one thing, Keith Law and the various on air types have not toured the country and evaluated these players, and I doubt they have much in the way of ESPN scouts, if any. As far as ratings go, MLB teams rated him as # 578 in the country, more or less. Not in the class of the HS types that rated a “slot” bonus, but maybe in the secondary group, an 18th rounder. That’s the ratings to go by. As far as being reported elsewhere, that usually is held off until all the paperwork is in, and it is reported to them by the agent for the player.
      There have been numerous Philly players that were signed and it was not reported till much later, even if they had already played in games as a pro. No reason to be way skeptical, or not.

    2. Seems pretty reliable. Article quotes the coaching staff at ASU. Unless they absolutely put Blanford on the wrong list, I’d say it’s safe. I’ll add it now with no bonus listed and I can always change it back.

  43. Pretty happy with the Phillies draft signings so far. Seems like they did their homework and drafted signable HS kids just after the 10th round (and have signed them!).
    Signed 4 of 5 HS drafted between 11 and 21.
    Signed 24 of their first 26 drafted players.
    Have expressed interest in some upside HS guys for the future (since they unlikely have the money to sign them this year) in Starwalt, Cody, Hoosier.
    And if Rash does not sign, Phillies get the 96th pick next year.

    If nothing else, I’d like to see them sign some of the Juco guys, but it only makes sense if the Phillies Scouts see them as potential MLB players rather than just throwing money at them because they were drafted. It’d be nice to get another LHP like the huge Wieck or the young Fernandez-Beltran.
    Still would have like to see some $ saved on Cozens to take run at one of the late drafted upside HS guys.

  44. I think one of our problems on the big club is the need for a more diversified offense with some big lumber. That is exactly what Cozens provides. He is currently hitting .313 and hasn’t had a hiccup yet in the GCL, but people still take shots at him. Why, I don’t know. I didn’t see the same kind of negativity surrounding L. Greene last year, and I still see Cozens moving faster through the system.

  45. SCOOP | Good news for #Mizzou fans. Was told tonight it would be a huge, huge surprise if RHP Alec Rash signed with #Phillies. #mlbdraft

    Tweet from Kendall Rogers of Perfect Game

    1. Posted that Alec wanted $800K while Phillies offered almost all remaining draft pool $$… I cant see why a kid is willing to pass up on near $700K and attend college. If he gets drafted in 3 years after the 2nd round he wont get near that much!

      1. exactly. he’s almost certainly not going to improve his draft position once he gets to college. at least this is a protected pick, meaning the phillies get it next year. that being said, i wonder why the phillies drafted a guy that high with signability issues.

  46. Philly.com is reporting Rash won’t be signing. Rash wants $800k but the Phil’s only have less than $700k left to offer.

    1. Baseball America says 983,000 before penalty. But, that doesn’t take into account any additional money they’ve spent that BA hasn’t reported yet.

      1. The Phillies have $693,100 remaining in their bonus pool. It may not have mattered, but it’s unclear why the Phils didn’t offer the entire $693k to Rash (vice the $620k according to the above article). Maybe they’re trying to sign another kid selected after the 10th round?

        The Phillies could offer Rash another $245k (5% of their $4.9M bonus pool) beyond the $693k, for a total of $938k (not $983k as stated in post above) without losing a future draft pick, but they would have to pay a 75% tax on the extra $245k. I doubt the Phils would be willing to pay the tax, particularly since Rash is a protected pick, If Rash doesn’t sign, I believe the Phils get pick #96 in next years draft as compensation.

        I also agree that not signing is a big financial gamble for Rash; it’s very possible he won’t be drafted as high as #95 in three years.

  47. Well im really dissapointed I thought Rash would be the best player from this draft. I kinda had a feeling this was going to happen. I dont know why they didnt go hard to sign him from the begining. To see that they signed all of these other guys and now have no money left to sign sign him was as mistake. Id much rather have Alec Rash than S.Golden, R.Bielski, Z.Cooper, M.Sisto. They should have locked up Rash for only 800,000 instead of some of those guys. Alec is leaving alot on the table and he could go to school and turn into a 1st round pick or never put it together and be a 20th round pick but i think this kid has it. After shane watson he should have been signed before anyone else. Id rather miss out on anyone else in the draft. I think they made a mistake an i know people on here will get on me for being negative but i think they made a mistake. Im bummed

    1. And they offered 620,000 so they are basically going to let Rash walk for a measley 200,000 come on phils. The only way they could possibly reedeem themselves is if they now sign Kyle Cody and Daniel Starwalt but i dont see that happining.

        1. The father’s declaration seemed pretty definite. If that was a negotiating ploy, I’m not sure that kind of public posturing helps. Egos get involved and then they don’t budge due to principle.
          I think this situation is due to a lot of stubbornness on both sides. The Phillies went over slot for a low rated player like Zach Green, so they would have gone over for the highly rated Rash. Looks like the family wouldn’t budge, so the Phillies wouldn’t counter.
          Stubbornness.

          1. This is not surprising, they did the same thing with Workman a few years ago. I am sure they have done it with a lot of kids. They offer up a price as take it or leave it, im willing to bet most of the HS kids they over decent $ never come close to making it after college!!

    2. 1. The Phils still have 5+ days to reach an agreement with Rash. This may not be over just yet.

      2. The Phils couldn’t sign Rash until July 1, since the Iowa high school baseball season extends after school is out. So saying Rash should have been signed before anyone but Shane Watson is ignorant.

      3. The Phillies definitely have $800k to sign Rash. However, their current offer of $620k is pretty good ($120k above slot). I suspect Rash wants the remainder of the Phils’ bonus pool, or $693k, and would sign if the Phils offer close to that amount.

      1. it is possible rash’s father is trying to get the phillies to up their offer. but if they don’t come to terms, i’m still disapointed the phils drafted a guy in the second round with signability issues. that braves rookie SS simmons was drafted in the second round. these are the players you have to bring into the fold if you to rebuild your farm system.

  48. Here is my question, you say they get another 2 nd round choice for not signing him, without additional money to sign that pick, they will have to get anyone cheap dugan type, how does it benefit us to have extra pick, when we cant sign our picks this year and now to add another 2 is nuts, to me.doesnt help us,unless we go cheap route to sign them all, and pick more toolsy, guys who never pan out. rash should have been signed, before anyone besides our top two,if you think enough of a guy to draft him second, you better sign him, what the hell is amaro and this fo doing?

    1. genius did you not read what was written above? apparently not because if you’ve read any of this post you would have seen that they couldn’t sign Rash til after July 1 due to some Iowa rule.

      So to say he should have been one of the 1st to sign is stupid. If they waited til after July 1 to sign everyone after Rash they’d be in even worse shape with this draft and wouldn’t have half our picks playing already

      1. I think what he means is no matter what the phils should have left enough money to sign Rash. Our system is not very good and our big club is falling apart. We need top prospects. To not budget to make sure you signed this guy was a mistake.

        1. Prior to the draft, the Phillies FO (Wolever) indicated they were fully prepared to spend the entire bonus pool of $4.9M+. That means at least $693k is still available, so I don’t think it is a matter of budget. I’m hoping the Phils are trying to hold firm at slot for Rash so they can use the $193k “underage” to entice another HS pick to sign.

          1. If you count all the guys signed after the first 10 rounds im pretty sure they are close to the $4.9 without signing Rash

  49. Just to be clear…the Phillies have apparently only offered 500K slot to date. The 120k in the MLB Scholarship program does not count against the bonus pool and the Phillies are not charged for it. I still think this is a negotiating tactic. That being said, I will be disappointed if the Phils don’t sign Rash. If however, they sign David Hill AND get a 2nd round pick next year, that would be a good outcome too.

    1. Thanks for that clarification. I wasn’t aware of the distinction between the college money and the bonus pool money.

    2. Interesting point on the college money. I didn’t pick up on that. Maybe they really are charging ahead at one of the low round guys with their bonus savings.

      Since the pick is protected, it’s not a huge issue for me not signing the guy. To come down on the FO for making a dumb pick seems harsh. The only thing you do is delay for a year what will be essentially the same available talent. They have the room to sign him for $693k plus college money to go over $800, if they really want to, (or more if they pay the tax, which seems unlikely). They can choose to sign him, or instead sign a HS guy from the later rounds for I guess $293k (or more if they pay the tax), and take the comp pick in 2013. I’m not upset by the group of prospects they got this year even without Rash, and especially if they tack on another decent-bonus-worthy guy.

  50. The phillies will have plenty of money next year picking in top 5, so the extra pick money will be there , and anyonmous calling someone genius casue they missed a point, showes your ignorance like larry. two road scholars,. morans cant just say he couldnt sign until july,instead have to make ignorant remarks. shame this site if you make a mistake you are called names,

    1. Brad and Gregg, can you stop these “Anonymous” posts and make people identify themselves to remove possible offensive remarks. Both of you have done a great job keeping the site going so keep up the wonderful work.

  51. Hi All – I follow the site but haven’t commented in some time. And I will say right off the bat that I am not as educated on the draft rules/regs. as most who comment here. With Rash(and the other top targets), it was my understanding the Phils scouting department would have spent a significant amount of time leading up to the draft with the player, family(s), and whoever else is advising these kids, so as to get a good estimate (if not exact number) as to what it will take to get a kid signed. With the manner in which salaries are slotted in today’s draft, and the importance of signing the top 10 picks, this process would be all the more important.

    What exactly is happening here that a pick as high as Rash and the Phillies are seemingly so far apart? Is the Rash “team” just moving the field goal post, or did the Phillies just not believe the number they were given? I understand negotiations leading up to the deadline, but it would seem to me that both sides should have a better feel for the other’s position. What am I missing?

    1. You’re missing the same thing we all are. There is no way to know how much time they put in before-hand or if any hand shake deals were agreed upon. It’s unlikely we ever will. If I had to guess, the Rash camp knows how much the Phillies can spend without incurring a loss of draft pick next year, and are asking for that amount. The Phillies don’t want to pay that amount.

      Saying that the front office is cheap and/or stupid for doing this is fairly ignorant. Look at a real life example. You need a new widget and have $100 to spend. There is a widget out there that is worth $60, but the salesman is asking for everything you have because he knows you have more than $60. You don’t think it is worth it, so you don’t buy the item. Why is this so hard to fathom? Or am I the only one on the planet who won’t pay for something that i feel is overpriced??

    2. To be clear…I’m not calling JT ignorant, just some of the previous comments as I read through this.

  52. Phillies assistant GM on Rash: “It’s probably best for him to go to school.”

    http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/dmr/index.php/2012/07/09/phillies-gm-on-rash-its-probably-best-for-him-to-go-to-school/

    Rash, a second round draft pick by the Philadelphia Phillies in June’s Major League Baseball first year player draft, will not sign a contract with the team his father Mike Rash told the Des Moines Register on Saturday morning. Instead, Rash, a 6-foot-5 200-pound hard throwing pitcher, will attend college at Missouri.

    1. I guess that is his choice, but it sounds like he is getting poor advice from his father etc… I understand getting the best offer you can, but they are getting the best offer that the Phils can provide at this time. I think the offer of 500K plus 120K for school is pretty sweet deal, I am sure a lot of kids would welcome an offer such as that with his current skill level. I think the Phils were aware of his demands prior to the draft, is seems like they may have changed somewhat. Karma has a way of working these things out, lets see how this works out for him in the future…

      1. Nails, Alec Rash could be making a big mistake here and dad is not helping here. Sounds like the Lindro’s and the Flyers and the Phillies said no. I agree with you about the demands changing and the Phillies would not have drafted him if his demands were $800,000. I don’t wish bad luck on the kid but maybe this will end up like Vance Worley who was drafted twice and signed the second time.

        1. One of our assistant GMs made the public comments that Rash has not performed like an overslot guy and that Rash’s family moved the goalposts during negotiations. You don’t do that with a guy you want to draft again.

          1. If he wants to play professional baseball he does; if not good luck in the real world working a job.

  53. Just a reminder that the signing deadline is Tomorrow (7/13) at 5PM. I haven’t come across any whispers that the Phillies are even talking with anybody though

  54. Interesting info on BA regarding Rash. Doesnt have the same stuff this summer which sheds light on Marti’s comments. In a BA chat yesterday, they say they expect the Phillies to sign a few late round picks but didn’t offer any names.

    Alec Rash, rhp, Adel DeSoto Minburn HS, Adel, Iowa (Phillies, second round): Rash showed a 91-93 mph fastball that touched 95 during the spring, but he has worked in the upper 80s during Iowa’s summer high school season. Philadelphia has pulled its offer to Rash, making it likely that he’ll attend Missouri.

    1. Doesn’t the team have to offer at least slot to get the comp pick next year? I could be making that up. And maybe offering and having it turned down then pulling it is good enough. CBA experts have opinions?

      1. Don’t think they do. Don’t recall reading anything like that. I know in past years players failed physicals and were not signed and the team received a compensation pick.. I believe in the current CBA a player who fails the physical must be offered 40% of slot for some reason. Didn’t see anything about healthy players, some of whom it seemed were offered less than 40%, don’t know if that has anything to do with the next draft compensation or not. I think it is just unsigned draft pick- get compensation.

    1. Looks like nothing. Brookover reports Phils signed 24. That’s all we knew minus Blanford, who I will take out.

      1. Brad, any word of how much money the Phillies used? I am a disappointed in that no one signed on Friday.

        1. Haven’t seen the number. BA has an incomplete list, since they don’t list the bonuses for anyne past Carmona or Golden. So does a guy like Bielski get $100k? I don’t know. I can say they spent at least $4.4M, and certainly more than that as that excludes everyone outside the first ten rounds except Golden and Carmona who BA says both got $100k. Carmona used to say $125k, btw. I am changing that on my chart.

          1. Baseball America has updated their database to show Rick Bielski and Nic Hanson both received 100K bonuses, just like Steven Golden.

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