JC Ramirez to the bullpen

Per Matt Gelb.

This was a fairly predictable move, as Ramirez never developed a reliable third pitch, and his second pitch is inconsistent as well. The hope is that he can add a bit to his fastball now that he doesn’t have to pace himself, and sit in the 93-95 range. He’ll need to improve his slider to have any kind of high leverage reliever upside. I’d guess he will go back to Reading to start 2012.

44 thoughts on “JC Ramirez to the bullpen

  1. He’s been moving sideways since he was acquired from Seattle. Good move, though that Seattle deal gets a bit worse every year

    1. Well, except that Aumont improved significantly last year; and is showing well this spring. And Gillies is on the field for the first time in two years – that’s an improvement. Who knows with Ramirez. His velocity may play well as a reliever.

      The only thing that concerns me is they did not get a true hitting prospect like Justin Smoak. Even with his middling performance last year; I would’ve been happier with him instead of Thome.

      1. Never got the Smoak thing. He hits below .240 with not much more power than Victorino. He does walk a fair amount. He’s been very mediocre and not enough of a hitter to play first base.

    2. Not really… we’re getting at least one player who seems like he’s going to contribute to the big club… that’s more than a lot of teams get for ace pitchers.

      ex: The Johan Santana Deal.

      1. “that’s more than a lot of teams get for ace pitchers” LOL. I’ll assume that was a joke.

        1. Not really. Look at the Santana deal the poster above mentioned; literally zero value for Minnesota there. The other two Cliff Lee deals are instructive: Seattle got back a promising prospect, but one who posted a sub-.750 OPS at 1B last season, plus a few bullpen arms and a confirmed rapist; the Indians got two bench players and two guys with their arms falling out of their shoulders. If it weren’t for d’Arnaud’s MiLB breakout, the Halladay deal would be looking lopsided, too.

          The really “big” deals as of late tend to be for cost-controlled starters (Pineda, Jimenez) than for established stars a year or two from free agency. Why would you give up a bunch of great prospects such a short period of time? If the Phillies get a high-leverage reliever and a fourth outfielder out of their trade, it’s certainly not great, but it could have been worse.

          1. The deal could still end up being a good one for the Phils. Aumont can develop into a top-tier closer, Ramirez can develop into an effective reliever, and Gillies can develop into an everyday OF’er. I’d be the first to admit that the book is far from closed on the Lee to Seattle deal,,,,, but, to my original point, Ramirez’s move to the BP diminishes the return, and in a sense, makes the deal look less favorable.

          2. Don’t forget about that time that the Phils sold Schilling to the Diamondbacks for a bag of balls and an alcoholic named Vicente.

  2. How is the Lee deal getting worse each yr? Aumont is becoming a top BP prospect and will be in Philly by the end of the year. Gillies is showing some good speed. I wouldn’t be shocked to see Ramirez pitch well in th BP as he should only have to worry about a couple innings and we need he can hit 95 MPH on the gun. Plus Lee resigned with us.

    1. “Plus Lee resigned with us” is irrelevant when evaluating the Lee trade. I really wasn’t try to start a debate though. Ramirez to the bullpen doesn’t necesarily bode well for the Phils side in evaluating that trade, that’s all I was saying

      1. I’d rather he contributes in some way as a reliever than not at all as a starter. Like all other prospects, everyone wants to make them the next ace pitcher or the worst prospect alive. Would be nice to see some patience, after all they are prospects and playing in the minor leagues to try and develop. Writing off someone like Ramirez at this point is ridiculous.

  3. Still up in air about JC but Steve is right. I got my first real look at Aumont . I was struck by how he show the batter so much of the ball.

  4. I think it’s time. He’ll be 24 this year and hasn’t shown any real progression as a starter so hopefully he becomes another guy in the De Fratus/Aumont mold who really benefits from the move. The chances you would trade for three prospects and have them all work out are very slim, but if Aumont becomes an impact reliever and the other two guys don’t amount to anything, I would take that at this point.

  5. Speaking of the bullpen, Jake Diekman continues to impress and racking up the strikeouts. I think he’ll begin in AAA just because the team does not typically have its players skip AAA altogether, but he appears to be on a fast track. He has been a delightful surprise over the last year or so.

    1. Unfortunately there are others on this site who feel because of his advanced ‘age and slow development’ , especially in his command, he only has a 50-50 shot for the bigs..

      1. If that is the case (and there is some of that on this site), then they don’t understand what is going on with this player. Today’s Jake Diekman is an entirely different prospect from the one that existed a year ago. Diekman changed his arm slot from 3/4 to side arm and, in so doing, both assumed a more difficult arm angle for hitters to face AND his fastball picked up several miles per hour. Through these changes, Diekman has gone from being a borderline prospect to a beast. While he still struggles with control (this is a real issue) and has to develop a consistent breaking pitch, he is a completely different player from a developmental standpoint.

        1. That was me. I understand perfectly what’s going on with Diekman. I saw him pitch in Reading, saw him throw sidearm, and saw him throw 94 mph. I may have been the first person to come on this board and say hey, this kid may have something. But while his K rate spiked, he still walked 6.1 per nine last year. He walked 6 in 11 innings in the Arizona Fall League. We all know that command won’t fly in the majors. He has the raw stuff, but the control needs to improve. And until he demonstrates it in a competitive environment, I don’t mind saying Diekman is a risk. And I don’t see how that’s necessarily an insult.

          1. Did Diekman lose his command when he changed his delivery from 3/4 to sidearm or has his command always been an issue? If he has been having control issues with his sidearm delivery only, then he needs the time to refine that delivery…….along with a 2nd offering. AAA for a year with a callup in September.

  6. If I recall this was Ramirez’ projection from most scouts at the time of the trade. He may not have the necessary command or movement on his pitches to excel as a starter. The bullpen lets him throw harder and might be a better fit.

    Aumont was the key to that deal. He had the pitches to start. Just not the stamina apparently.

  7. Of the 3 prospects we got for Cliff, JC Ramirez is the one that I never had high hopes for. Both Aumont and Gilles had(and still do) have All-Star upside, where I always viewed Ramirez as a 5th starter/swingman at best.

    1. I’d love to have a fifth starter that can throw 95 MPH, to be honest.

      There’s always a chance he could return to a starter if something suddenly clicks, but this move hopefully helps him just reach the Bigs. I’m all for whatever helps our guys succeed.

        1. Didn’t mean consistently. Just has the ability to do it, or he “touches” 95 as it were. Which he does as a starter. He just works in the lower 90s, mostly.

          Either way, I, like most, believe his only real path to the majors is the ‘pen regardless. Hopefully the switch benefits him.

  8. I’m sure this decision was made now, at least in part, because the team is looking at how to set up their minor league rotations. This suggests to me that Wright will start at AA.

  9. I think the beginning of the offseason (or maybe last) I listed prospects by position. Didn’t list Ramirez as a starter, but had him as one of our better relief prospects. Like Aumont to the bullpen, this doesn’t change his prospect value as it’s just an acknowledgement of his ability.

    1. Saw this in that review

      OF Gauntlett Eldemire was a 6th round pick in 2010 from Ohio University who has not yet appeared in a game due to injury. While he might not be ready to open the year with Lakewood, it’s possible that we see him in the summer. He turned 23 on February 28th.

      When is he going to play… Anywhere?

      1. Not sure what’s going on with Eldmire right now, but I really liked the pick when the Phillies drafted him. He’s the kind of a guy that I could see being a real breakout prospect IF he can get healthy enough to show people what he can do. The fact that there’s been no news on him is a bit concerning, but hopefully he’ll be back playing in the near future.

        1. I saw Eldmire play today during the intra-squad games today at the complex. Of the 4 squads he was with the least experienced group and made an out in the only AB I saw. But at least he’s playing somewhere. Roman Quinn played in that game also at SS where he bounced a throw to first but got the out. He walked but no hits that I saw. Altherr made a great throw to the plate from LF and M. Franco hit a ground rule double to RF. No rosters are out yet but real games start tomorrow.

      2. Posted a bit on Eldemire in the last thread- spoke to him yesterday and he had no idea where he would go- I would have to assume GC to start with. He looked good in BP and told me he is healthy. He strikes me as a very good athlete- looks like a linebacker.

  10. I’m curious to see how JC responds. If he can up his K’s and Velocity he could definitely help as a reliever sometime in 2013.

    1. Ramirez is not close. His control is terrible. On the other hand aumont, though his control is bad his stuff and secondary pitches are mlb. Not yet but it,s there. Catch my 2 guys i take north are elarton and diekman along with the usual guys . Diekman is such a different view with that sidearm he throws the batter away from what they usually see from the phillies. Goodbye to herndon. Btw d.mitchell looks really good.

  11. Another helping hand for Galvis today from MM. It was also a bad day for Worley doubters. If he keeps it up and Blanton can turn his body into pitching success,then a few hits and good defense will earn the pennant.
    Mitchell might be the last missing piece.

  12. The move of converting former Phillies minor league starting pitchers to the bullpen has worked well with a number of current Phillies pitchers including Mike Stutes, Antonio Bastardo, and Joe Savery. This year Phillippe Aumont, who was a starter as late as the end of the 2010 season, may also reach the majors after converting to a reliever. If moving to the buillpen worked for all of these guys then why not switch J.C. Ramirez also, if the coaching staff has determined that he likely won’t reach the majors as a starter. The Phillies minor league pitching coachs have a great track record regarding overseeing pitchers trying to make this switch.

    1. Stutes needs to start showing more consistency this spring….he could start the season in LHV if he doesn’t come around.

  13. I’m a little surprised that the Phillies aren’t giving J.C. Ramirez one more shot as a starting rotation guy in 2012. While his regular season stats were a bit lacklustre in 2011, Ramirez shone brightly in the playoffs. He was the Reading Phillies most consistent starting pitcher in the Eastern League playoffs last September.

    1. Ramirez also played last season with a badly puled groin that kept recurring. When he was pain-free he was good, and his Ks went up.

      I also would like ot see him given a chance to start in AAA before being moved to the pen permanently.

Comments are closed.