78 thoughts on “Box Score Recap, 26 June 2011

  1. It’s nice to see Ashe pick up three walks. Anyone think he, Hudsonor Dugan see time in Lakewood before the year is out? Also, didn’t anyone notice the odd line Aumont had yesterday? He faced 8 batters, 4 hits and 4 strikeouts.

    1. It’s better than the line one of the pitchers put up in my daughter’s softball league last week – 8 batters faced, 8 walks. Talk about a tedious inning!

  2. Austin Wright with a good start…he has now gone 2 games pitching 9 innings w/11Ks and only 1 run..It depends how things are going for Lakewood whether anybody gets a call up. I think Ashe could see some time because Perdomo is ahead if him and that is nothing big. Dugan and Hudson have some bigger names ahead of them

  3. Mayberry can at least play defense and he is starting to hit. BF needs to fall down to bounce one over the third baseman.
    MM is projected to be Mendoza -10 , 6 walks and 29Ks and is no help in the outfield.
    At least solve these problems. Again I would like to see Bonifacio( or =) by Tuesday or I may have to resort to Tums.(or =)

    1. Oh, you projected out Martinez’ numbers, eh? Based upon what? 79 AB’s over half a season. If Martinez continues to make very limited appearances it means nothing. IF not , it means nothing also. How’s that projecting out of a BA work? It just remains the same. And since the BB and K numbers seem to be based on simply figuring it is near the All-Star break, so Half-a-season double, it would be 6 BB and 28 K(2X14 is 28, not 29 cause you can’t double a whole number and get an odd number) . Or just trying to pad.Taking it from half a season 79 AB’s projects as less than 1 AB per game. Most every player that starts in a game will make at least one out per game, so distributing out less than one AB per game doesn’t say much of anything at all.
      With regular playing time, Martinez has the ability to hit likely as well as Bonifacio with the added benefit of adequate defense at SS and the ability to play there at all, plus adequate defense and 2B. 3B and OF. Bonifacio? Last time I looked he played for Florida but seen some when he played for Washington Nationals. Who campaigns for Bonifacio? Like others on that Nationals team you campaigned for in the past, like Ronnie Belliard, Alberto Gonzalez, et al, , Bonifacio is not really a guy who plays positions, he is a guy you find a hiding place for. All of those guys have had good batting records at a time, but there is a reason why they don’t play as regulars. Bonifacio in Philly would just be another deep reserve , little used , back-up.

      1. I’m not saying we should trade for him but Bonifacio is 100 times better than Michael Martinez. He can play pretty much every position, he can actually hit, and he is really fast. He is better than Martinez at everything.

        1. i’m better than martinez at everything – that’s not the barometer i want to be using….

        2. Let’s see. I actually went and looked him up. Everything he did since he left Enma Belager High School in the D.R.
          He is really fast, yes, but on the 162 game average they have 22 steals , 8 Caught Stealing. Now in the generally looked at lines , you got .253 BA, .311 OBP, .326 SLG for a .637 OPS. Averages out to 1 HR per season. Some may promote WAR, I’ll call it Approximated Value. For this, they derive 0.6 on offense, and on defense negative score at every position except RF. Don’t see that that is a very high standard to equal or better.
          And unlike Martinez who started baseball, after Basketball at 24 and made it at 28, Bonifacio signed right out of Enma Belager HS at 17 and made it at 24. 3 Years in the MLB and still at minimum and will be eligible for arbitration for next season.
          They don’t regularly play Bonifacio at SS, and the play he gets is at 2B, 3B, and the OF mostly, and isn’t considered a stalwart there. So, since Philly would need a back-up really defensively sound at SS, and they would likely continue with Wilson Valdez for that, I still think if they should add Bonifacio it would be as second IF option, and he would play little this season as Martinez has. As an OF back-up who can fill-in in IF, maybe, but would he outhit Ben Francisco? And even if you believe that Bonifacio is all that, Florida is within the Philly division, needs bench players as well, and Bonifacio still make the minimum salary , so why would Florida trade him?

          1. Why are you using up your time with a backhanded defensive of a guy like Martinez. Bonifacio is just one possible replacement. In the pool of talent in mlb he is a tabpole.

          2. Florida is cooked and will trade to save money that is what they are all about.

            1. Like as above, Bonifacio makes the minimum, any player they get will at least make the minimum, so where do the savings come in. Florida, the people I have read they will trade is Greg Dobbs and Wes Helms. And if they are looking to save money, Bonifacio would be one of the last guys to go. And , if he any merit like you claim, it would then take a couple of prospects. That’s your big plan to save the team, trading to replace a guy now used as the back-up 2nd utility infielder.

      2. The Phillies have played 79 games so far this year.

        14 * 162 / 79 = 28.7 K

        We can forgive for rounding up.

      3. I hope you are not talking to me. The projections are ESPN.. The only other player I campaigned for was Soria who is doing well despite a week from hell and who I would take in a minute.
        Not only is Bonifacio better in every way he is two years young,but pick a player not named Martinez. This team needs help. Sitting and praying isn’t going to do it

        1. How much help do they need? Have you looked at the record the Phillies have? Bonafarcio sucks out loud. Martinez is here to make Wilson Valdez redundant next year so we do not have to pay over $1,000,000 for a utility guy.
          The Phillies can improve though. Ibanez is toast and I’d like to see them grab Conner Jackson and Brad Ziegler from the A’s.

    2. Do you really need Tums when watching the best team in baseball? This is a team that has lost 2 or more games in a row only 4 times all season.

  4. Wouldn’t you–if you had Mayberry’s other baseball skills–spend much time each day hitting sliders and curve balls? I suppose that has been tried with him…but his baseball abilities other than vs. breaking pitches seems to be wasted for the lack of that one important factor.

    A shame. He is in his late 20s and his pro baseball time is slipping away.

    PS.-How soon will we learn of other draftees signed?

    1. Do you give a guy a spot on the 25 man just to hit against lefties, which he does very well? I agree he needs to hit breaking pitches and righties better to get more playing time. But he has had plenty of chances. He is either a very late bloomer or will never hit righties or benders well enough to get enough playing time and show what he can do all around. He’s perplexing and disappointing, all that physical potential.

      1. Once upon a time, Jayson Werth was in a platoon in RF because he couldn’t hit RHP. With Ibanez heading off into FA, Mayberry and Francisco should battle it out for LF. I know, it doesn’t sound great, but we have to see how the FA Phillies shake out.

        1. I don’t think Werth has ever looked the same as Mayberry at the plate. Mayberry’s splits against RH pitching are dramatic. Comparing a guy who looks like a 5th OF at best to a guy who became an all-star does not make sense, IMO. Werth hit .298 and .274 in his first two years platooning, with power and as good a fielder as Mayberry, maybe better. Mayberry will probably get a few more chances. My point is that he does not do well enough at the plate to get extended chances. And that will hurt his chances with this team. He would do better with a lower team that has the patience to develop him, give him 400 ABs or more, plenty of ops against RHs.

          1. When Werth got signed by the Phillies, nobody was thinking that he was going to be the player he is today. I still believe that Mayberry deserves a shot somewhere, and I don’t think he has gotten a fair shot here in Philly. I would like to see him fight for LF in 2012, but with the pressure to perform here, he may not get that chance.

            1. My question to those likening the Mayberry to Werth situations is, “How often does a Werth situation come along?” It is so rare that a player blossoms at the relatively late age of Werth. I mean that is soooo extreme, platoon player to $126 million man? You might as well compare him to Willie Mays. Just because it happened once here does not mean it is more likely to happen. There are thousand of examples that we do not even know about that would say Mayberry will never be anything more than he is now.
              Let’s be realistic.

              That being said, there is nothing I see in M. Mart. or Francisco that leads me to believe there are great barriers standing in Mayberry’s way and do believe he might as well be given as shot. I still think it is more a, “What the hell, give it a shot,” than a “I love that Mayberry, if Werth could do it then Mayberry can too,”

  5. LVIP- DeFratus- summary says 14 pitches 4 strikes. He also had a K. From the recap , figure it went like this: 1st batter 3-0, then HBP, 2nd batter walks on 4 pitches. Strikes out Dayan Viciedo on 3 pitches. Final batter, Milledge gets 2-0 count, hits into DP. Figure it was distributed like that, though there could be some shifting here and there. Recaps might say 1 IP- 0 runs allowed.

    1. Sometimes you need a lucky break like that inning to turn it around. Let’s hope that it works for De Fratus.

  6. The 2nd youngest player on Wmsprt, by less than a month, is Maikel Franco. Only Lino Martinez is younger. In late August he’ll be 19. He’s a guy to keep an eye on. He played well in the GCL last year although the final numbers don’t reflect it (.222/.292/.330). He’s improved those number so far, .278/.316/.389 in SSS. He’s shown some pop and hasn’t made an error in 6 games at the hot corner.

    Pat Murray, on the other hand, is the oldest guy on the roster. He’s older than Dom Brown. In the words of Mel Allen, “How a-bout that?!”

    1. The interesting thing about Franco this year too is that he struck out for the first time on Saturday. Prior to that he led the NY-P League in plate appearances without a strikeout…great to see from such a young guy. He really squares the ball up well.

    1. They gave up 10 runs in the first inning and the game was quickly out of hand. It was just a chance to rest him and play others.

    1. plus you may have to change the site name to presentphils cuz these box scores always turn into big club chatter

  7. How about Brown failing to run one out over the weekend, i’m shocked it wasn’t brought up here. That seems very un-brown like and perhaps is a sign of his frusteration and immaturity. (hopefully unlike rollins who continues to be immature)…

    What do you do if you’re the phillies and need production from all your OF’s? Continue to get limited production from a frusterated player starting 60% of games, use him as a pinch hitter, or send him down AGAIN?

    Btw, I think sending him down now would likely ruin his confidence, I think you just have to sit on it and pray, the question is, as a PH or as a spot starter?

    1. I don’t think Rollins is 100% since he hit hit that pitch off his knee, and Manuel knows it. Rollins has been benched previously for not running out balls. Yes, it looks bad when it looks like he’s loafing to 1B on a ground out, but he gets a pass in my book.

    2. I hated seeing that. He would have been safe if he had busted it out of the box.
      That being said, I do think it’s just a sign that he’s stuggling and frustrated right now and not indicative of his overall attitude. From what i’ve seen, he has a good attitude and is a hard worker.
      His numbers are really hurting right now, but I think (hope) he’ll start warming up over the next few weeks and play really well down the stretch.

    3. The worst part of the incident was that Brown did the exact same thing in the very next AB even after Utley clearly pulled him aside and talked to him. I really like the kid but WTF, Dom?

    4. Brown, a rookie hitting just over the Mendoza line, cannot be allowed to get away with something like that, even if Rollins does, because Rollins is older, a veteran and battling leg problems. When you look at Brown’s performances at the plate, you can see why he may be frustrated. He is making contact, but the ball is not falling in. Sure, he needs to be more selective at the plate, but I think that his luck is bound to change if he keeps after it. If he can straighten out his attitude and hustle, then I think he should get more time with the Phillies. If he won’t hustle, let him exchange with Mayberry who did hustle while he was up here.

  8. I thought I’d bring up as a point of discussion (but not one of concern) the strikeout numbers of Colvin and Cossart. Last year, Colvin strike out just under 8/9IP – not horrible, but not dominant. This year, he is around 6.5/9ip. Cosart last year was well over 9k/9ip, this year he is only around 7.

    As I said, I’m not too concerned – they’re developing players who are working on things, etc. I guess I had more expectations in the strikeout department, especially given how Cosart’s arm strength

    – Jeff

    1. And this actually brings up another point, May’s K numbers are absolutely dominant… and bringing this back to a discussion I had here last week, IMO proves his “pure stuff” (not including command/control) is way ahead of cosart and colvin.

      1. I know what you are saying, but I think you are defining “pure stuff” in a unique way. By “pure stuff” most people talk about the raw quality of the pitches. Usually this is high velocity or lots of movement. Pitchers with below-average stuff can still get lots of strikeouts through deception and control, e.g. Matt Way who had a K/9 of over 10 in 2009. No one would say he had excellent pure stuff.

        Based on most scouting reports I read, May has good stuff but Cosart’s is better.

      2. I think May’s wildness is actually probably helping his strikeout totals. Hitters in A-ball will chase pitches out of the zone and I’d guess that May has taken advantage of that. The good news is that his control has clearly improved over last year and the strikeouts are still coming.

      3. Boston – I agree, May might be deceptive, but his command/control are sub-par, hence what leads me to believe his stuff is better. I’m not a scout but I also need to be logical when evaluating his stuff. So, why is May’s k rate at 12? You mentioned either movement (could be this) or velocity (for the FB atleast) and May is average in this department. The difference between 7k/9 and 12, isn’t deception alone, and given his walk rate, it’s not “painting the corners”. This leaves me to believe it’s a few things, either movement as mentioned above, consistant release point (which goes towards deception), or superior secondary pitch/pitches. My guess is it’s all 3.

        2 of those 3 justifications for his high K rate are “stuff” related. The only thing IMO May really lacks is velo on his FB, and that may kill him as he moves up.

        As to NEPP’s comment, I don’t think he’s ready for AA yet, and really need to see consistancy over the remainder of the A+ season, but I also think he’s closer then cosart and colvin are to being ready.

    2. Even going up a level, its a valid consideration when discussing arguably our top two pitching prospects. How long can we keep disregarding the superior numbers of Rodriguez and Pettibone? If their higher pedigree is based on superior stuff, the numbers don’t agree. Colvin has been better of late, and pitched better in the 2nd half last year, but he needs to make up some ground if he hopes to join the rest in Reading next spring.

      So…if you wanted to push one of them up to Reading who would it be? I’d say Pettibone over May, but I’d only do it if I was really considering one of them for a spot in the 2013 rotation. Long-term depth could be an issue, with the contracts of Blanton, Oswalt and Hamels set to expire. Everyone is assuming we re-sign Hamels for 3 years, but would he do it? If he keeps this up, he could easily get $160 million on the open market. Two years ago, Hamels was the guy everyone thought we WOULDN’T sign to a lucrative long-term deal. If the Hamels contract is even a question mark for the front office, you’d think they’d start eyeing the Clearwater rotation more aggressively.

      1. Hamels is going to get at least a 5 year deal, which will still leave him young enough to get yet another big contract.

        1. I think that’s about right. I think the contract comes in at around 5 years, $100 million, with a significant mutual buy-out with vesting rights for a sixth year. Sound familiar? It should – the deal will look a lot like Cliff Lee’s deal if you forced me to guess. It will be lighter on the dollars, however, in part because Hamels still has an arbitration year left . . . but not by a lot. And you know what, it’s the one contract that they really have to do. Fortunately, I do not think that Hamels wants to leave, so I expect it to get done.

      2. Baxter, it isn’ t a mystery. the logic was well put recently by Keith Law:

        “Keith,At what point do statistics in the Minor Leagues matter? For instance, Joe Wieland has better than a 20-1 K/BB ratio in high A (including more than 10K/9), but is panned as a prospect. It doesn’t appear to me that he’s too old for the level, either. Is he, and other minor league performers like him, overlooked due to his draft position, or is he simply taking advantage of poor hitters in the low minors and, therefore, a non-prospect?

        Klaw (2:25 PM):

        He’s not “panned” as a prospect. Just because scouts aren’t calling a guy you like a “star” doesn’t mean he’s being panned. Pitchers can put up great rate stats in the minors, especially the low minors, with feel and command but without great stuff. If you want me to tell you I think so-and-so is an ace, you had better hope there’s a plus pitch in there I can point to to say, “Yes, he will miss major league bats with that.””

        Not that I’m citing Law for his expertise, but his statement reflects the point of view of most baseball people/scouts, and IMO reflects reality. You’ll find exceptions but not many. Now, if you don’t mind being wrong you can disagree with this, but please don’t pretend it’s a mystery. That’s a sign of psychosis, not just a mistake.

        Now, that said, Pettibone (especially) and J-Rod (to a lesser extent) are real prospects. But (1) ERA is, especially when evaluating prospects, not the first or even second (or even probably thrid) thing you should be looking at. (2) Even just looking at ERA, you may want to take another look at J-Rod, who has slipped badly lately & is now behind Cosart and May even in ERA. There is no conceiveable universe where Pettibone and J-Rod are our top two pitching prospects. The best, bend over backward evaluation of our starting pitching prospects would place Pettibone 3rd and J-Rod 6th. That’s quite generous.

        Of course even more proof that the commenters on this site who respect analytical stats are ALSO the guys who respect traditional scouting wisdom. The …. I guess you could call them “unadjusted traditional stat guys” like baxter have zero respect for scouting & traditional baseball evaluation.

        1. What are you going on about? When did I say anything about ERA? I like Pettibone for his 94 mph sinker & amazing bb/k rate. J-rod has a higher k rate than Cosart. Where are you getting this stuff?

    3. how dare you post a minor league comment on daily minor league box scores…goto a minor league site for that, this is obviously for big club talk…oh wait…

  9. Charlie Manuel said that Martinez made the best play he had ever seen in the field in spring training. He compared him to Omar Vizquel and said that he could hit .260. It looks like the Phils are going to keep this guy. I don’t know where he would fit in- maybe a guy we could turn to if Rollins is washed up. I don’t think you can judge him on this year’s numbers because of his lack of playing time. He has speed and he can drive the ball better than Valdez. I am a little interested in this guy.

    1. Charlie takes a liking to players and it takes a lot to change his mind. I’m willing to go along with his read on MM. However, stating the guy might hit .260, I take that to mean if he got consistent ABs. That is not the case. He might never get that. If he can’t hit .260 by next year in 150-200 ABs, he could well be a failed experiment. I get emotionally involved in these players also, and I like MM’s energy and versatility. But he will have to hit a lot more line drives to be even a bench player in the majors. Too many easy grounders, to my eye.

    2. Personally, I am not sure why there is the obsession over Michael Martinez and his roster spot. The Phillies won a World Series with Eric Bruntlett on the roster. Martinez fills a void the Phillies have right now…namely utility guys that can play at the MLB level. He gives the Phillies a backup plan for 2011 and 2012, while the infielders in the minors (Galvis, Hernandez, Garcia, Asche, Martinez, etc) get healthy or get time to develop.

      The problem isn’t Martinez…the problem is Raul Ibanez. As long as he is on the roster he is going to get playing time at the expense of others. And the truth of the matter is that while players like Dom Brown, Ben Francisco, and even John Mayberry might represent the future or some part of it, they aren’t exactly setting the world on fire at the present. They might be better options than Ibanez just by the nature of them being younger and the fact that Ibanez will not be here next year, but they would earn that playing time based on projections and hope, not by current performance. And once the playoffs role around, there might be some value in Ibanez veteran experience. Not certain of that myself, but it could play a role.

      1. Agree with your assessment.
        Ibanez is getting paid to be a run producer. He is performing poorly. Francisco is not any better. Mayberry got a chance with Victorino out to play everyday and was worse at the plate and better in the field. Charlie lobbied to bring up Brown and he is just as good/bad as Francisco. Both are getting some walks, both are an adventure in the field, and both have chance to hit a HR or steal a base.
        If any of these younger guys could take advantage of their opportunities then Raul would be more likely to be benched. Raul at least has a track record, including the 2nd half of last season after a poor first half. Maybe he deserves the chance to repeat that performance.

    3. Michael Martinez will be the utility guy: making spot starts in the IF and OF, and using his legs to score. Will he ever be more than that? Who knows, but for now, he’s not the reason why the Phillies aren’t scoring runs.

      1. Agreed. The Phillies had the same problems last year with Jason Werth in the lineup and Martinez down in Washington.

  10. Martinez will very clearly be the starting second baseman or centerfielder in LV next year…

    1. I consider brown a prospect for the remainder of the year and while I understand what you’re saying, there is a very real possibility he may end up back in the minors. I think he’s still relivant, it’s not like we’re talking about Utley, Howard, Hamels etc… Same thing with martinez, he likely will end up playing for AAA next year. Again, still a prospect in my eyes.

    2. NEPP–I agree wich you. Can we please start talking Derrick Mitchell again? The Paw-Paw slugger.

      1. Tonight it was with his glove in the 6th inning in Altoona by crashing into the center field wall to bring down a potential extra base hit and then belly flopping to lay out and pick off a fly ball hit in front of him to end the inning according to Brian Seltzer.

        1. And between innings he rescued two children from a burning building across the street while still wearing his spikes…

          When oh when will this guy finally get the respect he deserves…

  11. Afraid that it is a terrible article. The writer correctly sites sample size to make the argument that it’s too early to worry about his BA but then ignores that same sample size to talk about his great bb/K rate.

    It also totally misuses BABIP to make the case that his average will rise. Truth is that Brown doesn’t have enough time in the big leagues to have established what should be expected for his normal BABIP. Right now, he’s just not making enough solid contact to make the case that he’s been unlucky. Yes, he’s making contact and not striking out but hitting 5-hoppers to 2B isn’t an indication that he’s having greater success that the numbers show.

    In the end I think Brown will be a solid ML regular but he’s still a bit behind the curve which was the case being made when everyone was calling for him to be called up to boost the offense.

    1. Bleacher report is indeed awful and that article does over simplify things, but a couple points in partial defense:

      (1) K and BB data normalize is a much smaller sample size than BA, so the sample issue does apply with as great a force to the BB and K data.

      (2) We don’t know where Brown’s BABIP will end up, but it is so low now that we can say with some confidence that luck is at least somewhat involved. No one (over a signficant sample size) BABIPs that low. Also, his extremely high minor league BABIP is at least a relevant data point. Taking those two factors in consideration, we certainly CAN say with 100% confidence that (given enough AB) his BA will indeed rise. How much it will rise is an open question.

      1. “sample size issue does not apply with as great a force,” that is

        Brown has stuff to work on, but comparing last year to this year it’s clear he has made some real strides.

      2. K/BB rates do normalize faster but not that fast. With just 120 PA each bb or K moves his rate about 8/10 of a % point.

        Also, I agree that no ML regular over a significant sample size will have a BABIP that low but that’s basically the point. Brown hasn’t yet established that he is a ML regular.

        I fully expect that he will but its a mistake to state that his numbers will automatically rise just by getting more at-bats. Give me 1000 at-bats and I’m confident that my BABIP wouldn’t rise to an average level. I’m also confident that I wouldn’t last for 1000 at-bats.

        Point is that Brown needs to do more than just get plate appearances to raise his BABIP and BA, he needs to make better contact. Again, I think he is a good prospect and will eventually figure it out.

  12. May with 4 walks and 6 k’s.
    Valle with a walk and 2 hits.
    Singleton with a couple of hits

  13. What is the deal in Reading tonight? Is Savery back to pitching? He came in after JC Ramirez and pitched the 7th

  14. So is Savery a DH/Closer? He pitched three shutout innings to get the save for JC Ramirez who pitched well tonight.

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