Brown returns home from Winter Ball

The plan has changed rather abruptly for Phils top prospect Domonic Brown. Brown was supposed to be spending much of the next three weeks getting the at bats he missed out on riding the Phils bench during the seasons final months.  However, after a 2-29 start in his 9 games with Escogido, Brown has returned home reports Matt Gelb of the Philadelphia Inquirer.  Gelb reported that Phils GM Ruben Amaro stated that Brown was feeling tired and sluggish and as such he was pulled out of the Dominican League. This will obviously lead to additional speculation as to the expected role Brown will be in at the beginning of the 2011 season.

While Brown should certainly contribute in a major way to the 2011 Phillies, the plan as to the manner and timeframe of that contribution could be swaying a bit.

54 thoughts on “Brown returns home from Winter Ball

  1. I know it’s not the most exciting answer, but I really think this guy could use another half a season at AAA. I think a Gload/FA/Francisco combination in RF would be the best for the team, and Brown in the short and long term.

  2. Sluggish to me means lazy. Reading too many press clippings maybe? Sign Werth ASAP our can’t miss prospect could be a bust or just not ready for the big show.

  3. There’s no doubt in my mind that he could use another year in AAA ball.
    When the Phils inevitably sign a RH outfielder ( my guess/preference is Diaz)
    to replace (also inevitably) Werth that leaves him as the odd man out anyway assuming no other moves involving an OFer. We all know Ibanez is done after 2011 so Brown will be ready for full time duty by then. We hope.

  4. Sign Lastings Milledge to alternate with Ibanez and Victorino, Francisco and Gload platoon in right, Brown goes down to AAA for at least a half year bats in front of the Rizz and some of the other good AAAA guys Amaro brought in. Figure out your 6th inning guy (Bastardo or Worley) and situation lefty (George Sherrill) and away we go.
    There is no need to rush him to replace Werth, a platoon can get within 75% of Werth’s value and Polanco, Howard, Utley and Rollins back healthy for the year makes up for the rest and then some. The Phillies finished 2nd in NL runs scored last year.

  5. How could he feel sluggish after sitting on the bench for half a season? I think there is going to be more to this story. I do like like the idea of signing Diaz, but he hasn’t played all that much right field in his career. Best option- Jayson Werth.

  6. Good riddance Werth, 7 years 126 million is utterly ridiculous. I guess Crawford now gets 8 years 150 based off that.

  7. Gload is reason enough to rush Brown into a platoon next season. I will be sick if he’s getting most of the starts in RF.

  8. I am nowhere near quitting on Dom Brown. His performance in winter ball was due to rust and perhaps an illness caught in a foreign country. His performance with the Phillies was limited because of rust. I expect a strong showing in spring training from him in an environment with guys who care about him and consequently a job in a rightfield platoon. I believe, like Werth, he will play his way out of a platoon into an everyday job. The Phillies front office likes him a lot and they are experts and I trust them.

  9. It’s worth noting that Latin Winter ball is not a prospect league by any stretch of the imagination. These are experienced players playing a league probably a little bit better than AAA.

  10. I agree he can’t cut the mustard. He has no reason to feel sluggish or tired, he sat out most of the time. He simply can not play in the majors. He is not a real athlete. He has no athletic abilities. Any time you get tired and sluggish and have not played much, you are not a real athlete. He is just an overrated player reading too many press clippings. He went from bad to worse. He came home because he could not keep up. Will he get sluggish and tired in the majors?

  11. “I agree he can’t cut the mustard. He has no reason to feel sluggish or tired, he sat out most of the time. He simply can not play in the majors. He is not a real athlete. He has no athletic abilities. Any time you get tired and sluggish and have not played much, you are not a real athlete. He is just an overrated player reading too many press clippings. He went from bad to worse. He came home because he could not keep up. Will he get sluggish and tired in the majors?”

    This is easily the dopiest thing ever said on this site.

  12. I still expect Dom to start the year at LHV. The Phils would like to sign someone that plays IF and OF (Bill Hall?) plus someone else that plays OF. They want one of the two to bat lefty and one to bat righty and hope that the lefty hitting guy can share RF with either Francisco or the other signee. Gload was signed to be a pinch hitter and that’s what he’ll be, not a RF. Time will tell…. Sherill definitely is an interesting name to consider for the pen if they think he can bounce back. I also think Wheeler is an interesting name for the 6th inning guy. Unfortunately, getting the Nats’ 2nd round pick won’t be high enough to get a major league caliber SS candidate in the draft so the Phils might have to find some more money to buy a better 16 yr old Latin prospect than they have been getting. Or consider a high profile minor league trade to get a SS for the future.

  13. I don’t think they’ve decided whether Dom will start the team in the big leagues or in AAA, although I believe they intend for him to get a lot of ABs in right field at some point this year.

  14. Brown is the future Phils’ RF. It’s just a question of when that future begins.

    The Phils have two outfielders to replace, Werth immediately and Ibanez no later than the start of 2012.

    Brown fills one vacancy at some point, and most believe he eventually will be a good player. The other vacancy should also be filled by a good player. After all, we are talking about an elite team. For me, guys like Francisco, Mayberry, Gload, Francoeur, Diaz, etc. just don’t cut it.

    The Phils need a good OF, preferably one who bats right, who can be a full-time starter for two or three years. Offensively, Ordonez fills the bill well. Dye, I don’t think so, especially after his one-year layoff. Quentin, maybe.

    If the Phils pick up an Ordonez, then they should start Brown at AAA, regardless of his spring-training performance. If Brown is ready by mid-season, they can bring him up and start juggling with Ibanez. If Brown is not ready by mid-season, have Ordonez be the full-time RF. Use others to give Ordonez a rest, fill in if he is hobbled, or replace him defensively.

  15. What the hell does it matter how many ABs he got when with the Phillies? He still had the same full-load of workouts and training sessions just as with any MLB player. It’s hilarious to me that people think he should’ve had endless energy to expend after playing more games and seeing more ABs than ever before in his career. Give the kid a break. It’s a development process. Shit doesn’t happen overnight.

  16. With ST, MiLB season, MLB experience, and Dominican League he saw more ABs than ever before (add that to what I said above).

  17. I would think that the Phillies pulled Brown out of the Dominican League as a safety net because he was batting .029. They are simply out to protect their top prospect. Players get tired and stressed. Dom’s a young kid that had a lot happen this season. He’ll be fine going forward.

  18. I also find it hilarious when someone makes a ridiculously absolute statement. The kids body of work suggests that he can be an elite player in this league but he has to do it. Are there reasons for concern? Sure but those are generated from small sample size and an .029 in the DL is not reason for concern.

    2011 is a new season and the slate will be wiped clean for him in ST. At some point he has to seize the opportunity the same way Utley Howard and Werth did.

  19. A good point is made above. I could see the Phils pursuing Magglio for 2 years if they could trade Ibanez. They could then sign someone like Church or Hawpe cheap and let him platoon in left with Francisco until Dom is ready. They would still need someone to back up CF because I don’t think Francisco is good enough and Church wasn’t that good either.

  20. I don’t mind Brown starting in AAA, with either Ordonez or a Diaz/Gload platoon in RF. (Not liking Gload’s glove there though.) If Brown gets hot and is considered ready, put him in for Gload and let Gload be our main lefty PH.

    My preferences for RF:

    1. Ordonez
    2. Diaz and Gload or Brown platoon.

    I think both of these have a chance to be productive. Don’t like any of the other options mentioned. I see Mayberry as a 4th or 5th OF, spelling Ibanez against some lefties–if he looks like he has improved as a player in ST.

  21. I can’t see the Phils playing an OF of both Diaz and Ibanez behind great pitching. Great pitching requires great fielding to get the best result. I think the Cardinals have the same issue right now with Holiday and Berkman as to whether they score more than they give up defensively. Diaz in LF platooning with Ibanez is fine with me but not playing them together.

  22. Just listened to a RAJ interview where he didn’t even mention Dom’s name as a potential replacement for Werth. DNL panelists noted the omission as a sign of disappointment in his development. I’d really like to know what went down in Dominican league. Clearly his star has diminished, at least for now.

  23. RWG…or maybe RAJ is just trying not to put too much pressure on the kid. If he anoints Brown as the next RF and he struggles out of the gate, the press will be all over him. Let him come along at his pace and he’ll be fine.

  24. Honestly this scares me a lot especially since he’s not even being mentioned as werths replacement by baseball people. Right now I call Kevin towers & see if brown can be used as a center piece to a Justin upton trade. I know it would deplete our farm system but let’s be serious, the guys wed have to trade aren’t gonna be ready during this world championship window.

  25. We need to recognize those prospects in off season ball who are still playing as the holiday season approaches. Sebastian Valle is mastering left and right fields for Los Mochis in the Mexican Pacific League. Antonio Bastardo is again dominate in relief in the DWL. Julio Rodriquez just pitched six more shutout innings in the PWL and is one of the top starters there. Tim Kennelly has handled all six chances in his first two starts at third for Perth and Alan Schoenberger lined a double in his most recent game for Brisbane in the ABL. And surprisingly 18 year old Josh Warner in three outings for Brisbane has pitched eight no hit, run innings in his pro debut down under. These are the guys still giving it there all only a few months before pitchers and catchers report to Clearwater . But all we read about is the exhaustion of Domonic Brown.

  26. I believe that Domonic Brown is one of the most overhyped and disappointing Philies prospects in the last 20 years. Impressions are as follows:
    1) Base running instincts are terrible – he has no idea when to break on a ball or pause after contact is made. Also, he takes the turn around third base like a donkey would take the final turn in the Kentucky Derby.
    2) Defensive instincts are beyond terrible – he takes a circuitous route to every ball that comes his way and he rarely hits the cutoff man with his throws. He would would rather display the hail-Mary wind-up and then just let the ball sail so everyone can see his arm strength.
    3) Motivation and dedication appear non existent – note the failed winter ball experience. Also, when he should be sprinting to first, he seems to enjoy taking a leisurely jog to first. This guy is everything Pete Rose wasn’t.
    4) Offensively he has no clue what he is doing. He swings at pitches he should be taking and he takes pitches when he should be swinging. He hasn’t given anyone the impression that he can hit a left handed pitcher (and he hasn’t been given many opportunities most recently because he looked so overmatched in initial performances).
    5) His approach at the plate and loppy swing need total overhauls. At this point, his swing has more holes than a kitchen sponge.

    I would be very surprised if this fleet of foot, athletic marvel ever materializes into a solid major league outfielder.

  27. Nepp I’m guessing anonymous Brown hater finally got a name. Utterly ridiculous! I think if brown got 500 at bats this year he would hit .250-15-65 and avg. defense due to speed negating some bad routes. I bet an avg. year in browns career will be 280-23-90-20 SB’s and 850 OPS. His best years will probably be about .300-30-105-20 SB’a and 875 OPS. He may never be a superstar but he will be a star and justin upton might be a good comp and despite the big name is not a super star either.

  28. I gotta ask. How is it that these deficiencies are entirely evading the scouts? And how is it that such a terrible player is frequently atop his leagues’ offensive categories?

  29. I agree with you Hole Camels about Dom Brown. But anyone disagreeing with Markymark and his opion about Dom Brown they clearly don’t know what they are talking about. Even when he plays bad there are excuses. He slaps the ball with his long swing and he can’t sprint to a base because has no speed.

  30. All these guys in winter ball had September and October off while Brown was working out daily with the big club. You guys are morons.

  31. Yes it is my opinion on how brown will perform since nobody knows what he’s actually going to do but I think those numbers are reasonable and guys that know a heck of a lot more than me on DB seem to think he has a bright future. Your not totally off base with some of your assesments about DB but your talking like he is a finished product instead of a young man who is still growing as a player and seems to desire to improve. If he is truly teachable, with his talent, I think he will be a star!

  32. I have to agree w/Alan. Don’t think all the scouts and publications are wrong about Brown. He is just needs to get some fine tuning in Spring and he will be good to go. He is going to be a 20/20 guy.

  33. Just curious, but did somebody say a former wide receiver who had a full ride to Miami and was clocked at 4.5 in high school had no speed? I ask you to race him. See who wins that race.

  34. Feedback on the comments:

    Coachable/Teachable: If Domonic Brown was coachable and teachable, he wouldn’t be a fundamentals fool after spending 4 1/2 years in a strong minor league system.

    Motivation/Work Ethic: The way the Phillies are handling this guy tells you all that you need to know about his motivation level. Phillies management: 1) made him sit on his ass with the big club for 2 1/2 months; 2) made him go to the Dominican Republic to play winter ball; 3) made him go home from the Dominican after he whined and then; 4) pretty much ignored his existence when discussing the right field job in the majors for 2011.

    As for the “morons” comment, how could anyone possibly think that Domonic Brown should be fatigued and sluggish from “working out daily with the big club”. That comment is a joke. Was 2 1/2 months of shagging fly balls and taking batting practice too strenuous for a 23 year-old professional athlete? Don’t even try to explain how the games wore-out young Domonic because he only had 65 AB from July 28 through October 20th. Also, Brown’s handling of his winter ball ASSIGNMENT was an absolute disgrace. It was an embarrassment to the organization that will not be quickly forgotten. If any of us had the opportunity to play major league baseball for the Phillies, I bet our energy and enthusiasm levels would have us jumping out of our skin.

    I am a long-time Phillies fan and certainly not a Domonic Brown “hater”. Actually, I hope that Domonic Brown does turn-out to be the next Darryl Strawberry. Brown’s size and athletic ability do seem to warrant those early comparisons. A young, skilled outfielder at a manageable salary is exactly what the Phillies need. It would be great for the Phillies organization if Domonic Brown is that guy. However, my instincts tell me that something is really lacking when I watch Domonic Brown play major league baseball and read between the lines. Don’t be surprised if Reuben jumps at the opportunity to send Domonic (and his agent Scott Borros) elsewhere in a trade.

  35. Hole, it isnt the games. It is the travel. The countless hours putting into scouting. There is more work at the MLB level than at the minor league levels.

    Also you seem like an expert, right? Tell me than if he is so poor, than why are people like Keith Law saying things like this about his after Brown’s struggles”

    “It happens all the time,” Law said. “There’s nothing to worry about.

    “You get these sorts of struggles with power hitters…The guy is still a top-five player. He has a swing that should produce 20-plus homers.”
    “He’s so gifted, and if he were 25 or so, it may be different,” Law said. “But at 22-23, it’s far too early to think about writing him off.”

    I think the first thing he said is what you should be looking at there.

  36. Hole Camels they would not have kept him up on the big club if he was an a hole who wouldn’t try, wasn’t coachable / teachable. The guys up there would not tolerate it.
    And I remember an article about how Cholly was working with him in Spring Training for a hip turn to add power and the next day he smashed a homer.

    He stayed with the big club because Gross was no longer in Allentown so he had a decent hitting coach. I am sure Cholly continued to work with him.

    And how many times have you seen him run the bases? He already is the fastest guy on the team.

    What a maroon.

  37. If some of you guys understood the game of baseball and then learned how to express your thoughts in writing, you wouldn’t have to resort to insulting a person’s family or name calling like a 5th grader. But then again, 5th grade behavior probably lines-up with some of your education levels. I guess even an excellent website can draw its share of clueless and classless people.

  38. Many of these folks who abuse Brown have not looked at the early struggles of Sandberg,Ripken,Schmidt,Hisle,Money and numerous other fine players. He has amazing tools and I have not seen him dog it in the minors or majors.
    As Phillie fans we tend to eat our own young. It not just our scouts and media pundits who love his skill set, every team initiates trade talks with the Phillies beginning with Brown first.
    A couple of his minor league teammates have been overwhelmed singing his praises. Schwim included.

  39. I also want to add that going 2-29 is really not that uncommon in baseball. Ryan Howard in late August had a week where he went 2-29 with one walk, 14 strikeouts and no extra base hits. Chase Utley had a 2-23 stretch. And we all know they’re better than that.

    As for the tired and sluggish criticism, do you guys have any firsthand knowledge of that? Domonic Brown did not get to be a high performing athletic baseball prospect by being lazy. For all you guys know he fell ill. I can just imagine what you might have said about J.R. Richard in 1980.

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