Antonio Bastardo debut live blog

Bastardo, Antonio

West coast trip. I’m going to attempt to focus on Bastardo’s raw stuff tonight, as well as his mechanics and what I see. I’ll update this post during the game. Discuss his start here.

Here is the Gameday link, which will allow you to see his velocity and the break of his pitches.

Im going to put a break in here, and I’ll start updates below that.

10:00 PM – Excited to see his stuff, Im sure he’s going to be nervous. Has to throw strikes, obviously.

10:24: 93, 93, 94, 95, 94, 95.

Wow.

10:31: 16 fastballs that inning, average velocity was 94.3 MPH. That’s impressive. Obviously his command isn’t there, we’ll credit that to nerves. Will be interesting to see if he can maintain this velocity. It had to be adrenaline working there.

11:28: Fourth inning, over 70 pitches now, and his fastball is back down to the 90-91 range, but hes commanding it better.

11:47: Im guessing he’s done, or close to it. His delivery looked relatively smooth tonight, he shows the ball kind of early, but it looked like guys weren’t getting good swings against him. His velo early was probably the result of adrenaline, but he was still 90-92 thereafter, and was commanding it a bit better. Didn’t see much of his changeup, his slider looked average. All in all, not too bad, and should buy him another start.

236 thoughts on “Antonio Bastardo debut live blog”

  1. I remember back when I was excited just because of his name and the K numbers he was putting him up. Saw him in his first LV start, and his stuff was just nasty. As long as his control doesn’t desert him, he’ll be fine.

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  2. Ducky how hard was he throwing up there?

    That’s the one thing that has never really been determined. I’ve heard anything from 86-89 a few years ago to 92-95 recently on here.

    I’m definitely excited to see him for myself now.

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  5. This kid has the potential to sell more jerseys than anyone on the current roster. I’m pulling for him.

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  6. the thing that may tell the tale. his k to bb ratio. look at any aces ratio there usually ridiculous,just like antonios. dont walk batters with quality stuff you win. walk batters especially the leadoff man you lose. good luck a. b.

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  7. Hi Guys I will be at Petco tonight so I will give you my 2 cents tomorrow. By the way Lidge threw real well last night

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  8. sdcaphil Says:
    ………… By the way Lidge threw real well last night

    He certainly did. Best fastball he’s had this year. Looked like last year’s Lidge.

    As far as Bastardo is concerned, this game is huge. IF – IF – the kid is the real deal, and with Drabek now on track to possibly be here next year, we may be able to use the words “Phillies” and “dynasty” in the same sentence.

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  9. I don’t mean to get off subject , but looking at taylor numbers, does anybody know what the phillies meant, When they said he wasn;t going up, he isn’t ready and we dont want to send him back. If his numbers aren’t the kind of stats that get you promote then I can’t imagine what they are looking for.

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  16. i remember when i saw bastardo in lakewood. real small but had great movement on his fastball for that level. can’t wait for tonight. i think there’s no pressure on him. no one expects him to outduel peavy. keep it close 6 ip 3 runs and i think most will be very happy.

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  18. New minor league transactions from BA. The org. released Scott Nestor, that cleared a spot on the 40 man for Bastardo. Shame, I only got to see the new Jason Neighborgall once.

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  22. what a great team…they steak bastardo to a lead. couldn’t have asked for a better start

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  27. Well certainly an impressive start thru one hitter. 94-95 on the fastball, wasn’t expecting that. Probably a bit of adrenaline.

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  41. Dude, nice first inning but he really looks like a late inning reliever. he works and pitches like a reliever. Let’s hope he can keep this up. Curious to see what happens second time through the lineup. Although, he is kind of approaching this like high school pitchers…don’t show them anything, mostly fastballs the first time through the lineup…promising first inning to say the least. 2 K’s

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  42. They make a good point on the tv broadcast. Ruiz should be able to settle him in between innings.

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  43. He threw a ton of pitches without locating at all. I’m under the impression he has pretty good control. We’ll see the second inning.

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  44. Consistently 94…did I miss something?

    Haha. Let’s hope he keeps it up. He probably needs to just calm down a bit. Can’t really complain though if it’s working. God speed, Antonio!

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  45. Holy *_)(*_)&!!!! Is anybody watching this?

    Antonio Bastardo is a flat out stud. Sure he’s pumped about his MLB debut, but his fastball is outstanding! A rising, exploding 93-95 mph gem that he hides well. Sure he’s working on his command and his offspeed pitches, but, people, this is exactly what a young potential star looks like.

    Dear Ruben Amaro: Whatevery you do DON’T TRADE ANTONIO BASTARDO!!!

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  47. Excellent idea PP with this live gameday blog. I am shocked he’s at the 94-95 range on his fastball, and while he walked Adrian, I don’t mind. Kid is clearly very nervous but on his second strikeout he showed he’s got balls.

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  51. Everyone needs to calm down. He got by there throwing only fastballs, at a velocity I’m sure he will not keep up. Let’s see how he works through the lineup again and uses his offspeed stuff. That will be key.

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  52. he’s doing fantastic but i’m actually surprised Ruiz didn’t go out and try to calm him down a bit. Glad to see him bypass the toughest part of the Padres order. I’d love another couple runs so that he can coast from here on out to 6 innings. watching the padres feed on mlb.com to see what they have to say about him and i’ll update it here in case anyone cares.

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  54. He is still pumping out those fastballs. His command is much improved this inning as well.

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  59. Its too soon to be making concrete declarations about his future. Let’s just see how the rest of his start unfolds and go from there.

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  60. this SD line ups stinks. I like the way he works….reliever reliever reliever…he’ll be a good one

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  62. I think he will make an excellent reliever, but…if his seconday pitches are good, I’m fine with him starting. We shall see… Well his in a tough spot, let’s see how he handles it. PP, any word on his mechanics?

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  63. Exactly…WHY would we rush putting this guy in the pen if he has the stamina to throw 100+ pitches? Escalona can be our lefty reliever-prospect-to-get-excited-about-guy.

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  64. 4 ks through 2. that and the velocity might explain the incredibly stupid santana comps. but the kid’s bringin’ it.

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  65. I say reliever because there is always a fear that smallish guys won’t hold up with starts innings. He is not lanky though and does have thick legs which is nice. Based on the first two innings, it seems as if he has a releivers approach. Works fast, challanges hitters…not bad qualities to have as a starter either, just not used to seeing it. Regardless, he is fun to watch pitch. Very different than what we are used to seeing from Phillies pitchers.

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  67. He seems to be guding his pitches a bit, especially his changeup. I like his slider though

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  68. Nick: Sorry, I’ve been agitated tonight.

    He looks like his mechanics are relatively clean and he doesn’t flail and fall off the mound after he pitches.

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  69. i like nick’s point that this is the Padres lineup. If he continues to do well here his next scheduled start would be at the Dodgers on Sunday night baseball. that’s where he’ll prove something.

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  70. you guys crack me up. guy comes out and throws gas and you jump to conclusions about his future after two innings.

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  71. nick we get that u say hes a reliever, obviously after watching 6 outs u came to that unquestioned assesment..we get it

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  72. What a talent! This is the most impressive pitching performance by a Phillie call-up since Hamels.

    He needs work of course and he needs to learn how to pace himself, but the change-up he unleashed in the second inning was just a ridiculously nasty pitch – really, it was pretty much unhittable.

    Lately, the word is in baseball is that he is being compared to Santana. Of course, Santana’s the ultimate finished product, but the comparisons are not crazy. If he doesn’t get hurt or lose velocity, this kid has a shot to be a top of the rotation starter.

    What a pleasant surprise. Congratulations to the Phils. The depth in the system is now very impressive indeed.

    Wow!

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  74. Bastardo certainly couldn’t ask for better conditions for his first MLB start. A bad hitting club, a good park for hitters and a six spot by his hitters in the third inning.

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  75. Here’s the thing about pitching. You know when you see it. It’s all about “stuff”. This fellow has “stuff” in abundance. It just jumps out of the television set. It’s something you don’t see often, but, boy oh boy, it’s there.

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  76. Nick I get what you’re saying about his approach, but one of the reasons he’s challenging the hitters with so many fastballs is because the offense spotted him a 4 run lead- now its up to 6. So there’s really no reason for him to not go right after their lineup with heat.

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  77. now with a 6 run lead he should calm down. oh and please stop with the santana comparisons. they’re ridiculous. let him pitch a full year to a 2 ERA in the majors before you even consider that. And i’m sure NONE of us expect that.

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  78. I know, I know. I’m just excited. It is refreshing to see something different from a Phillies pitching prospect.

    How many guys have we had that don’t have stuff and rely on location. Not used to this, I guess I don’t know what to think…

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  79. Thank goodness the kid has good stuff. He doesn’t have a backup career as a position player/batter. Those swings were absolutely feeble.

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  80. Mike, if what you’re saying is to mind our expectations, you’re right, odds are he will end up a 4-5 starter or very good reliever. However, the kid has had solid numbers for a while, and for many of us this is the first time seeing him. His stuff really does appear good, he has a plus fastball, jury is still out on his slider and changeup.

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  81. I imagine Ruiz is calling all of these fastballs. It’s not like tony is shaking him off. Up 4-0 and then 6-0 that’s how you approach a team.

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  82. His velocity is starting to get back down. Only been at 91/93 this inning. Watch out for Gonzo…

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  86. that was his most impressive inning. first and second facing one of the top hitters in the game and he gets out unscathed. kept his composure. very, very impressive.

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  87. Hope he can at least get through 5 innings with this rapidly-mounting pitch count. I like what I’m hearing on the radio so far!

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  88. I think I remember hearing about his lack of hitting prowess. I get he’s a pitcher, but really I’d appreciate a little more effort…that’s just embarassing.

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  89. wondering out loud how peavy looks at this offense in the clubhouse and thinks how much he’d like to have this run support? maybe that’d make him miss SD a little less.

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  96. also, he is still maintaining the 10 mph difference in slider and fb even when the pitch spead drops to 91.

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  97. I hope this isn’t like that game in 07 when JD Durbin looked like a stud pitching against the Pads in Petco. I highly doubt it… Bastardo looks like a keeper!

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  98. Wasn’t Bastardo signed in 07? Pretty good for only being in the system for two years.

    The last out in the 4th I am pretty sure was a changeup. He certainly seems to be keeping them off balance.

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  99. That’s another quick inning. He’s out of the 5th and is on his way to his first major league win (knock on wood). Hope he gets it…should get it!

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  102. at plus 90 pitches i’m guessing charlie takes him out. Park was warming up. get him some mop up work and save Madson and Lidge for tomorrow and the Dodgers series.

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  104. Going out in the 6th. Let hope he can get a quality start in his first appearance. I’m sure that Dubee was telling him to settle down when he was talking to him after the first Inning. Like, “Relax, you could have like 20 more of these.”

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  109. can’t ask for much better than that. Great job Antonio. You earned your start against the Dodgers.

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  110. Welcome to the bigs kid. lol

    Excellent start. The park didn’t have to much of an effect, Kouz’s ball would have been gone just about anywhere else though.

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  113. Great start by Bastardo, 94/95 the first two innings, but then settled down to 90-93 the rest of the way. Not bad for a lefty.

    Not too many hard hit outs either, a lot of soft fly balls to the outfield.

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  114. Interesting thought I just had – what if they somehow shuffled things and had Moyer and Bastardo go back-to-back? I bet the drastic change of speeds would really screw up some lineups.

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  116. I was really surprised he didn’t throw his change-up much. Its supposedly his best pitch. His fastball has some late life and I see why they think he’d be a good reliever. He could pitch an inning and just fire mid 90s fastballs at hitters. Hes got enough fastball and if his off-speed pitches are as good as advertised (at least his change up) he could be a good middle of the rotation guy.

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  117. And the only run he have up was to a star now too shabby.
    great night for the minor league system too.

    Ps Has Park pitched himself off the team. Trade him to San Diego quick. His spot coulld be filled by Carpenter since he doesnt seem to want to pitch
    PS Durbin needs to go back to long relief maybe he isnt getting enough innings

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  118. Back from Petco Ditto to what everyone said. If he develops his secondary pitches he could be a keeper

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  119. post game comments from Charlie say that he was pretty impressed with the young kid. He liked the fastball alot and said the kid had some nerves and that played a part in his location like we suspected. Said he was gripping the ball a little too hard on his off-speed stuff, which would definitely take away from their effectiveness. Hopefully next time out he can relax a bit and we’ll see the change he has been touted for come to life.

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  120. im sure all of are rightfully proud. great outing as far as his size give me a break. did you ever hear of whitey ford,ron guidrey, pedro martinez. the kids a starter and a good one. ais his k to bb ratio told the tale. his speed was great. now lets move park as nw said and taschner. hamels,happ,blanton,bastardo,moyer OK, in waiting worley drabek cloyd. i think were OK.i guess ruben can wait.

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  121. His slider was better than expected- he wasn’t really polished with it last night, but if he can harnass it there is real potential. Fastball as everyone mentioned was impressive. If he throws more consistently 90-93 in future starts he’s going to need better control- but that obviously was better in the minors. So, alot of things that will come out in the wash over the next couple weeks. He threw a few changeups, they looked ok, but not alot of dip, and only a little deceptive- hitters that swung looked a little out in front but were still putting good swings on it.

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  122. So I guess the Reading gun is accurate, eh?

    So A Bastardo that throws 95 instead of 89…that’s a much much different prospect.

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  123. I hope the kid enjoyed his performance. We certainly did. I know AB doesn’t speak much English so having Ruiz was a huge help… I’m sure.

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  124. When I rewatched the tape it was obvious that if there wasnt
    that silly seat things sitting right on the line, AGs Homer would of been a easy easy fly ball then Tony(in South Philly they thing he lives on Synder Ave} would of retired what 11 in a row. And he isnt exactly skinny like we pictured him.

    BTW RAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUL

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  125. Vin Mazzaro for a A’s matched Tony’s performance. This may be the year of the young pitcher. If they dump Park which I am sure they will ,Esconla doesnt fit they need an innings guy

    Welcome back JC

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  126. I know that I am going to get crucified for this comment, but, Bastardo still looks like an excellent reliever to me. Obviously, the results from his first start are excellent. Also, forgetting what I am about to say, it is obvious that you keep this kid in the rotation until he proves unworthy. However, ultimately, I see a back end of the bullpen type arm. His secondary pitches did not look all that impressive to me, and after his surprising radar readings in the first few innings, his fastball was topping out at 91-92, which is a reasonable expectation based on minor league reports. I feel that the league will start to catch up to Bastardo after he begins making the rounds, and that will ultimately force him into the ‘pen. Also, if he could pitch 94-95 for one inning at a time and exclusively use fastball/slurve, he may become a rather dominating reliever. Time will tell. I am certainly excited about his next start against the Dodgers.

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  127. Neduol Caz almost word for word what I wanted to say, his secondary pitches as told were not good, and he won’t get away with just a fastball, for a whole game. The one thing that puzzles me is why ,even you said suprising radar reading, people where saying he was 88-90 now you say 91-92,I saw 93-95 . but he did go down as the game wore on.

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  128. mikemike, In Bastardo’s Reading appearances that I saw (about 6 or 7), his reading on the stadium gun was consistently 89-93 (this was both in his starts and relief appearances). I have always taken the Reading gun to be about 2 mph fast, and so I always thought Bastardo threw 88-91. By the end of the Phillies game, he was around 92, which is in line with what the Reading gun always read. So, I now assume his velocity is low 90’s. Accurate velocity readings are very hard to get for minor leaguers. I suppose I will have to start taking the Reading gun for face value.

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  129. Another story together about taylor. If a trade is made , Then he might be the one to go, I think he is a kid with a shot to be something special, hope it’s for a top of the line pitcher, not a blanton , park type, if it happens.

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  130. They need a rookie to give them 10 s-12 starts until July 31. At that point, we will probably be able to get a rental without pillaging the farm system

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  131. As a twins fan, I can see the comparisons to Santana at the same level of experience. When the Santana started in the majors he was a long reliever for 2-3 years. This was because his stuff was too good for the minors, but good major league hitters could identify his pitches the second time through the lineup. Bastardo’s stuff has the potential to overwhelm AAA hitters, but he needs to learn how to hide the ball better and he has a better chance of learning that with the phillies. If he does that and refines his slider/changeup, then we can seriously compare him to one of my favorite pitchers.
    ps-who can I thank in the minor leagues for teaching the younger phillies pitchers the art of working quickly. I had a hard time watching their games a few years ago, but since Hamels every pitcher they’ve developed doesn’t waste time on the mound.

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  132. just watched last nights game again and bastardo was still great. one thing he should improve on hiding his changeup more.but a very small critique. he really was hitting 95 that gun wasnt hot. rickey b. if you get a chance can we get a report on worley and drabek? speed pitches composure etc. one thing i didnt mention was bastardos composure last night. great. not one deer in the headlight.

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  133. It is hard to overstate just how impressive that outing was to those who enjoy watching good pitching. What impressed me as much as the obvious stuff (95 MPH fastball, throws strikes, works quickly, poise, etc. . .. ) was that: (a) he seemed to be able to control the game even without throwing too many breaking balls; and (b) most importantly, his fastball is so well hidden and has such nice upward movement that hitters were extremely late on the pitch even when it was being thrown in the 90-92 range which means that even his average stuff can be devastating. Just amazing.

    There’s no need for Amaro to trade a guy like Michael Taylor to obtain an expensive pitcher this year. We have the talent we need in our own system. If we need complimentary parts, none of the top talent should be in play (by top talent I mean guys like Brown, Drabek, Taylor and, perhaps, even Donald – I haven’t made up my mind yet about Carrasco). I read the article today suggesting that Taylor is trade bait. I can’t believe the team is that stupid – trading Taylor (or Brown) would be a HUGE mistake. Not only is Taylor a suitable outfield replacement for Werth, he could very well become Howard’s successor at first if they can’t reach a long term deal. On top of that, all of the young guys are cheap and this team is definitely going to need to balance its roster to contain costs.

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  134. this is the reason i think carrasco has a bright future,the one reason so far he has that 5 to 1 k to bb ratio and ill say it again if you dont walk people most of the time youll win,if you have good stuff not ace but good. mikemike dont compare blanton and park, there not in the same league. blanton can actually pitch if he doesnt hang #2,s which he hasnt been doing. park is a disaster. i cant see any reason for any trade and im glad ruben has proven me wrong on that issue.

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  135. John – are you the guy named “John” who called WIP this morning to talk about Bastardo? Just wondering.

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  136. catch i went through this last year about ryan please not again. he will be at 1st base as long as he plays FOR THE PHILLIES. the phils sell out every game the 2nd highest in bb to the red sox. they are 99.9 % MLB attendance.com espn.and i would say ryan is a major reason they now nave the midas touch. they are making so much money it really is incredible.taylor or brown will never see 1st. i know you werent stating a preference but it seemed like you were worried.i hope not. very rarely since ive been following bb have i seen a lineup like this. man when i think of pancho tt chico money dalrymple curry gonzalez its a long time ago.

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  137. John from the NE..Luv your enthusiasm on the site and WIP..I dont have the energy to call those idiots in the morning but you expressed yourself beautifully. Congrats to you for believing in the kid and him proving us correct. Keep your comments coming and keep calling WIP. I enjoy every moment of it

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  138. i thought was more effective when he settled in at 91. He was actually pitching at that point and setting up batters inside, outside and high. Seeing that gives me hope that he’s not just a BP guy.

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  139. Actually, I love Ryan Howard. Just love the guy. But when he’s 32 I’m not sure that, if I were Ruben Amaro, I’d be willing to give him the 7 years and $150-175 million that he will undoubtedly require. If I have an outfield chock full of stud hitters and one of those outfielders can easily become my first baseman, the choice will be interesting.

    Mind you, I’m not wishing Ryan Howard away. But, as great as he is, due to the age he will be at the time of free agency and the position he plays, I don’t view him to be as indispensible as, say, Chase Utley or Cole Hamels. As such, the decision on whether to keep him will be more difficult to make. But we don’t even need to begin thinking about this for another 2 years, so we should definitely enjoy the ride given us by one of the best hitting teams you’ll ever have the pleasure to watch.

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  140. catch yes,thanks dick.been calling ive known ang,al and rhea for years.obviously ang goes overboard and i try to tell him im just one of many minor league nuts.but ive mentioned pp,s site a number of times and angelo and rhea read it. you guys should call.

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  141. Trade Taylor!! You have got to be kidding. He has as much potential as ANYONE in the minors and half of the players in the majors. Mike for Evan ok Not that that will happen but that is where i see his valve. And after Tony last night what the hell do we need except to relax. Ok I get it I am on Candid Camera.
    TB gave up four hits last night. At least two with eyes and the homer which was a lucky fly ball. Plus most of the fbs were
    such that the outfield had to come in. Much like Happ’s start against the Yanks no need for slow stuff which must be the new Philly way.

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  143. 610 = old and busted
    950 = new hotness

    …but I listen to Stern in the morning, Mike and Mike are a couple of dorks and I can’t stand Ang and hearing about the ‘Borgaawta Babezzz’.

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  144. Keep giving Bastardo and Haap starts, if one of them truely tanks and Draybek isn’t ready at that time, or… there is another injury to a front line starter we may have to part with talent, I just don’t believe we have to give up taylor. I personally don’t want them to get a stud, just a 1 year replacement 3-4 starter should our current minor league solution not be ready. Trade Mayberry and Donald or one of our catching prospects, should get you a 3.

    I don’t need these kids to be studs, I just need them to pitch 6 and give up 4 or less runs 90% of the time. They do that, and the phillies will march into the post season.

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  145. The Philly.com article is the same article that appeared in the Inquirer. It suggests that Taylor may be traded. I don’t know who is writing this stuff or where they get their information, but trading this fellow would be a nightmare. Again, the entire point of a minor league system is to develop players like this so they can play on your team for a decade.

    Michael Taylor is the PERFECT new Phils players. He is big, fast, strong, can field, has a strong arm and is extremely intelligent, confident, articulate and centered. He is EXACTLY the type of talent and personality the team is trying to cultivate. Why the hell would you trade a guy like that?

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  146. To put this in context, you have to go back to Pat Burrell to find as strong a Phils’ outfield prospect as Taylor and Brown. Before that, you’d probably have to go back to Greg Luzinski. The fact that there are two such great prospects should not diminish their potential value to the club, and not just their value as trading chips.

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  147. to me, the elite prospects are now in tiers

    FIRST TIER
    Brown
    Drabek
    Taylor
    Knapp
    and, maybe, Marson

    SECOND TIER
    Carrasco
    Donald
    Worley
    Stutes
    Carpenter
    Mayberry
    Savery
    maybe Garcia and DeFratus

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  148. Catch 22
    You are spot on as to the description of Michael Taylor. He is good for the Phils and good for the game and damm exciting to watch.

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  149. supra i partially agree with you keep giving bastardo and happ starts which is the whole point of bringing them up. but i dont believe either one of them will tank. imo both are very capable starters actually more than capable.our rotation right now of hamels happ blanton bastardo and moyer is fine. the guy who i think is the most susceptable to tanking is moyer despite his recent outings. and it looks like we have at least 3 pitchers in the system to bring up if need be. i think were fine therefore no need to trade anyone especially taylor. and im leaning towards taylor over brown if a trade happens be cause he is right handed,all things being equal. right now we absolutely can stand pat.

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  150. A look at Taylors 10th can be viewed at readingphillies.com. Incredible bat speed, but second to the speed of the veggies race.

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  151. “All in all, not too bad, and should buy him another start.”

    That’s an understatement. One of the most impressive debuts ever by a Phils’ pitcher.

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  152. This new rotation that philly has is very different. It looks like something a team dumping salary would put together. But something about it makes me like this rotation. I love bastardo’s fastball. even after his velocity dropped, he was still able to reach bach and throw one in there at 94 when he needed to. And he didn’t really start to go into the low 90s until he threw about 70 pitches. Its a young rotation now, with the exception of jamie, but i like it. Its about time that some prospects got a shot.

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  153. i read the article on philly.com by jim salisbury absolutely not one of my favorite writers. im sure most of it is taken out of context to give the impression that taylor is ready to move on when in reality hes probably dying to stay here. no wheels im sure youd recognize the tone. the same kind of articles i read in 1981-82. if and i say if any outfielder is moved i would think it would be mayberry. but ais b-4 i do not think anyone will be moved now. for what? with this lineup and rotation finally under a 5 era and our young pitchers. with the best defense in bb theres no need.

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  154. Most have to understand that it isn’t really about getting to the playoffs at this point, but what happens when they get there. The pressure isn’t anywhere near the same. And going out and going 6 innings and giving up 4 runs usually won’t get it done. Especially not with Hamels as your only top of the line starter with a bunch of 4 and 5s behind him.

    We currently don’t have a #2 starter and that is BIG. Myers is what he is, but there was always a hope he would put it all together like he usually does. Right now we don’t even have that hope.

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  155. Great comments, but the one I like the best, lucky fly ball homrun, that ball was hit so hard by Gonzalez it would have killed that guy if he didn’t move, a bullet that dent the wall

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  156. Thoughts after the excitment wore off:

    1. the kid has an electric arm. that is something you can’t teach and a guy like joe savery will never have
    2. we didn’t see his off spead stuff very much. according to mlb he threw 11 sliders – 5 balls, 2 fouls, 2 outs, 1 swing and miss and 1 single. charlie said he was gripping the ball too tight due to nerves, but that isn’t a bad ratio. clearly ruiz was calling fb since he was bringing the gas and getting people to miss. but i would expect to see more off spead stuff in his next outing.
    3. when he missed, he missed too low or too high. he didn’t miss in the midle of the plate. even gonzalez’s hr was in a good spot. he just got beat by one of the best hitters in the game.
    4. it is way, way too early to make a determination on this kid. either way. i don’t know why people kept mentioning him in relief last night. it is too early to say that. first, he maintained a great velo through 100+ pitches. second, let’s give him a few innings to see his true off spead stuff. let’s see how the league adjusts to him and how he adjusts.

    that being said, there is a lot to get excited about. we are now seeing why he put up the stats that he did.

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  157. “That’s an understatement. One of the most impressive debuts ever by a Phils’ pitcher.”

    Baseball-Reference’s Play Index actually allows a search of that. Looks like a bit of fun. Here are the top five debut performances by a Phillies starter (since 1954), as measured by Game Scores.

    1. Brett Myers. 8 IP, 2 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 5 K’s @ Wrigley Field. (78)

    2. Carlton Loewer. CG, 2 runs allowed vs. Cubs at home. 8 K’s. (77)

    3. Mike Wallace, 1973. CG, 1 run allowed at Shea Stadium. (72)

    4. Dave Downs, 1972. CG shutout at Fulton County Stadium, allowing eight hits. (72)

    5. Larry Christenson. CG, 1 run allowed despite six walks. (70)

    Bastardo is 15th, Hamels is 10th, Gavin Floyd is 12th. An average game score is 50 and 23 Phillie debuts have topped that. Just for kicks, Rafael Quirico had the worst debut by a Phillies starter, allowing 7 runs in 1 2/3 IP. It was his only MLB appearance.

    Like

  158. While I’m poking through the Play Index, John Mayberry is the only Phillies since 1954 to collect six total bases in his debut.

    Like

  159. mikemike Says:

    Great comments, but the one I like the best, lucky fly ball homrun, that ball was hit so hard by Gonzalez it would have killed that guy if he didn’t move
    Granted but in a nonfunnyhouse park,the best it would of been is a double off the wall if Werth couldnt get over. Any way everyone is smiles today.
    Do you believe the flu thing, They might be covering up a chronic ankle injury so they can trade Peavy

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  160. ALAN
    We old gassy emissions remember Dave Downs a get shutout
    but by spring he was done. I havent found the pitch count for
    sept 2,1972 but I am suspicious. In the long run he took it well
    unlike an phillies top prospect whose career ended just as suddenly

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  161. PP Fan
    Good obsevation about not missing over the plate. Also noone seemed to be digging in. The phrase “wildly effective”
    was thrown around last night. Does any one believe Park was
    jaking it??

    Like

  162. Thanks James for starting this thread and thanks for the comments. I didn’t get to watch this awesome debut, but here are my thoughts from looking at Gameday:

    1. He works up in the zone. Looked like the majority of his pitches were in the upper half of the zone. As someone else pointed out, that works well against the Padres (and in Petco), but potentially not so well against a better hitting team.

    2. On Gameday, BRK is basically the distance moved by the pitch in the air. So curveballs have a high BRK and fastballs have a low BRK. PFX is a little more complicated but it basically measures vertical movement. A *low* PFX means there was *a lot* of vertical movement. A *high* PFX means there was *not very much* vertical movement. So a fastball with lots of backspin will not have much vertical movement and hence have a high PFX. A Curveball will have lots of vertical movement and hence a low PFX.

    3. I used a VERY SMALL SAMPLE for fun to compare AB’s pitches with Hamels’s and Santana’s (why not aim high?).

    Fastball (AB throws ~2mph harder than CH and JS):
    AB – BRK: 3.4; PFX: 12.8
    CH – BRK: 3.1; PFX: 12.4
    JS – BRK: 4.8; PFX: 12.5

    AB throws harder with slightly less vertical movement, which is probably why his fastball appears to rise and he gets lots of FBs. JS has a lot more break on his fastball.

    Slider:
    AB – BRK: 8.4; PFX: 3.6
    JS – BRK: 8.4; PFX: 3.6
    Similar movement on these pitches. Control and deception then are probably the differences here (one would presume that JS’s control and deception are superior).

    Changeup (AB only threw 3 that I counted; Gameday misidentified them as fastballs):
    AB – BRK: 5.7; PFX: 11.3
    CH – BRK: 6.7; PFX: 10.6
    JS – BRK: 7.7; PFX: 11.9
    Look at JS’s change! Almost as much BRK as his slider (with the same velocity), almost as much PFX as his fastball. No wonder that’s so devastating. AB’s, meanwhile, does not look as impressive in that very small sample. I too thought it was odd he only threw three when his change is supposed to be excellent.

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  163. catch in regard to your prospects not in order i would go drabek taylor brown worley marson donald carrasco cloyd. knapp i know throws hard but how is his control. and its not like ive seen most of these guys but from our reports thats my evaluation. i think the 1st guy called up if need be is worley. btw salisbury said in his article that the phillies have 2 more outfielders with the potential of taylor, zack collier and slayden? are you kidding me.

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  164. “PP Fan Says:
    June 3, 2009 at 10:20 am
    Thoughts after the excitment wore off:

    1. the kid has an electric arm. that is something you can’t teach and a guy like joe savery will never have”

    Love that you took the opportunity to praise Bastardo and use that as an opportunity to take a swipe at Savery.

    Like

  167. Salisbury is probably being a little over the top, but I’m guessing he’s talking about their “upside”. I agree, at this point, Taylor and Brown are special prospects, while the others are potential.

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  168. John
    The first guy called up depends on the situation. Doesnt it?
    You wouldnt Worley for long relief . Carpenter fits better there.
    Short relief someone different. Interleague,injury except for third I believe everthing is covered. Even Berry is closing in on
    300 . alles gut mann

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  169. The article is ridulous. It’s speculation reported as news. Salisbury did a good job of asking Taylor a leading question to get him to say what he wanted to hear. Namely, that there was not room in the outfield to accommodate Ibanez, Werth and Taylor and, that, if that was the dilemma presented, something had to give. Duh!!! You can’t have three starting corner outfielders for two starting corner outfield positions. He then uses that obvious conclusion to somehow support the notion that: (a) the Phillies will not remove Ibanez or Werth; (b) Taylor will be ready when both players are there and THEREFORE – Taylor will be traded. He then reports this as though it were fact.

    What an irresponsible piece of journalism. If it were an opinion piece, it might make sense. But what was reported was not news.

    Can you tell that I’m annoyed?

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  171. “What an irresponsible piece of journalism.” I hope that’s hyperbole.

    I’m willing to say that the vast majority of Phillie phans have never heard of Michael Taylor and enjoyed reading the article about this stud prospect.

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  172. No, it wasn’t hyperbole. We all love Michael Taylor. That’s besides the point. The point is that, if you read the article, you believed it was highly likely that Taylor would be traded. I haven’t seen a shred of real evidence to support that conclusion. As a “news” story regarding what would happen to Taylor, it was nonsense.

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  173. “The Phils are looking for starting pitching help, and it could take a player like Taylor to land what they need. They are not in a hurry to trade Taylor – organization officials rave about his upside, performance, character, and work ethic – but there are factors suggesting that Taylor could go. He is younger and may have a higher ceiling than Mayberry. That could make him more coveted and therefore bring a better return than Mayberry.

    Though no one has said it, Brown and pitcher Kyle Drabek seem to be untouchable. Collier and Gose, both products of last year’s draft, can’t be dealt until they have been in the system a year, and the Phillies probably aren’t in a hurry to trade either. Together, they cost the Phils $1.775 million in signing bonuses.

    It all adds up to Taylor possibly being a trade chip. (It is imperative to use the word possibly because team officials won’t comment on potential trades or trade pieces.)”
    ——
    What in that is “ridiculous” or “irresponsible”? If the Phillies want to add a stud pitcher they have to trade something for him. Is it hard to fathom that a team may want Taylor and the Phillies will have to consider moving him?

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  174. Gillick may of done something as silly as trading Taylor. Ruben is smarter and since he is going to be here for a while forward
    thinking. I repeat What do you need???

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  177. Here’s what’s ridiculous:

    “there are factors suggesting that Taylor could go.”

    That’s not fact, that’s Jim Salisbury guessing at what he thinks might happen. It’s Jim’s opinion. You also are just taking a tiny portion of the article. The article indirectly cobbles together the argument that there’s a good chance that Taylor may get traded. He even gets quotes from Taylor which, when placed out of context, might appear to support the argument.

    Look if it was an editorial piece or an opinion piece, that’s fine. But it wasn’t reported in that manner. The entire tone of the article was designed to lead the reader to believe that Taylor very well might get traded. There’s no evidence for that theory anywhere except that the Phils want a pitcher and would have to trade a minor leaguer to get that pitcher. There is nothing but guesswork supporting the proposition that Taylor is the guy as opposed to Savery or Carpenter or D’Arnaud or anyone else in the system.

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  179. And the fact that other teams want him is not newsworthy. He is a top prospect so, of course they want him. The point is that there’s no credible lead or evidence to suggest that the Phils are willing to trade him. That’s just Salisbury’s opinion. That’s fine, but I think the far more persuasive argument is that the Phils are very, very unlikely to part with Taylor and, in fact, he may even be an untouchable prospect in their view.

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  181. “There are factors suggesting that Taylor could go” is just a reporter reporting the obvious.

    Get real. Anybody who doesn’t think Michael Taylor is an obvious trade chip has his head buried in the sand.

    Great example of killing the messenger.

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  182. While I’m as excited as anyone about Ibanez’s start, he’s about 1/9 of the way through a $30MM deal, 37 years old and his signing resulted in our losing our first round pick. We should probably refrain from judging the signing until we have a larger sample size, no?

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  183. The entire tone of the article was designed to lead the reader to believe that Taylor very well might get traded.”

    B/c he MAY very well be traded. Common sense tells you that Taylor MIGHT have to get dealt to bring in a top tier pitcher. Hell, Joe Blanton cost Cardenas and Outman (and Spencer). The Phillies do have to take stock of who they have and more importantly, who they DON’T want to trade, no matter who they bring in return. Taylor is a guy most teams probably would like to get.

    “there are factors suggesting that Taylor could go.”

    ‘That’s not fact, that’s Jim Salisbury guessing at what he thinks might happen’

    Moreover, with the Phillies taking stock of what they have, they use “factors” to figure out who it makes sense to keep and who they consider a little more expendable b/c they are blocked, have organizational depth, or whatever.

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  184. TAYLOR hit .340 after his first year in pro even this the “month from Hell” in Clearwater.

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  185. “The vast majority of Phils fans don’t read articles about the Reading Phillies.”

    Which is exactly why this is so annoying. If you didn’t know a lot about the team, the farm system and Taylor, you’d read that article wonder aloud why the team may be so willing to part with Taylor. Of course, that’s most likely the farthest thing from the truth.

    It’s nice reading about Taylor, but the article is as much or more about Taylor being a bargaining chip than it is about how great of a player he is becoming.

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  186. Most of the Taylor article IS puff piece on him. It shows that he’s a great player and decent student. I’m totally confounded by this.

    There’s been about 8 years of “irresponsible journalism” regarding real-life issues. To me, that’s the “irresponsible” stuff.

    Hell, I love Taylor and hope they keep him.

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  187. Maybe this article is used to introduce Michael Taylor and by demonstrating that he is viable as a top line trade candidate provides the Phillies with both bait and confirmation if they bring him along more rapidly instead of a trade. Two Phillie execs did comment for an article that you know they were well aware of the content messaging.

    I believe Taylor when he says he would love to play for Phillie or elsewhere. Players want to make it as soon as possible to establish themselves early is key in maximizing earnings.

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  188. We all hope they keep Taylor.

    Irresponsible journalism is everywhere and it’s been going on for as long as journalism has existed (if you want to see really incendiary journalism, read some of the stuff that was distributed around Colonia America – absolutely savage). I’m annoyed by this, but, gosh, it’s just baseball, I don’t think it’s that important, it’s just not good reporting. And I’m not saying Salisbury is a bad guy or even a bad journalist – I just think the trade aspect of the story was poor reporting.

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  189. Years ago I went to an Eagles practice some wrote an article it was obvious he wasnt even there. When the all star game was here. We went to the Hr contest. The press refused to vacate the field when asked. So fans and little kids didnt get to see batting practice. Oh i say i hate the bad ones

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  190. Catch,

    I’m sorry I’ve seem to be picking on you regarding this. I typically enjoy your comments/thoughts on this blog, that’s why your comments on this topic really stood/stand out to me. That said, I think we’ve both said what we want on it. Let’s move on and hope that the Phils can get a solid pitcher w/out moving Taylor!

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  191. montyburns130 – While I understand your restraint in wanting to judge as giving up a 1st pick is difficult, we can judge on what has been delivered and what looks like will be delivered based on current track record in Philadelphia.

    Ibanez has had the best offensive year of any outfielder in all of baseball. If you told me the phillies would have the best offensive outfielder through the first 2+ months of the year, who, will in all likelyhood start in the all star game AND has a decent shot as anyone at winning an MVP award all for a 1st round draft pick and 9 million dollars a year I don’t think there’s a single person on this site who wouldn’t pull the trigger.

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  192. Bedrosian’s Beard/Catch 22

    Taylor being traded is unfortunitly a possibility, though, no evidence other then him being a good prospect and the phillies desire to pick up a top of the line starter.

    That said, I wanted to evaluate brown and taylor. I don’t think I understand why everyone thinks the org is ok w/ trading taylor, but against trading brown.

    I get that brown has 4-5 tools or whatever and taylor has 3-4, but this isn’t all about potential, it’s also about readiness, and with Jason Werth showing crap at the ML level, you have to think there is a need for a right handed bat to take his place.

    Along those lines, the odds Taylor will be a MLB sucess are higher IMO then that of Brown due to being farther along AND performing better (more power/higher average). We all talk about how AA is the real proving ground for a prospect, brown has not done it yet, and taylor has.

    The two above points lead me to believe trading taylor would be unwise.

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  193. @nowheels please

    There is absolutely no way anyone on this site should criticize Pat Gillick. He won us a World Series and built a nucleus that contends year in and year out. On top of that, he put the people in place that completely replenished the farm system. That hasn’t earned him a pass from you? Seriously?

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  194. @Supra–Um, Werth is in a slump, yes, but he’s also a really good player signed for two years who is a core part of a team which just won a World Series and is contending for more. It is HIGHLY unlikely that Michael Taylor would be an upgrade over Werth right now, which means that there’s not a spot for him on the team.

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  195. jak440
    Unless you are the site police, I have my own mind. Do you remember Garcia,Eaton,etc. The man was good at bits and pieces.
    But Howard,Utley etc won the pennant and WS along with help from Ed Wade, unless YOU know a GM who would of turned down Lidge for a small bucket of balls.Here is the deal you say what you want and i will do the same.

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  196. RT Werth’s average is spiralling down. Maybe he will snap out of it or maybe not . that is why we have reserves
    NOTE: last year is last year dead and buried

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  197. How can anyone know if Taylor would be a upgrade over Werth? Werth is a terrific outfielder, and a great baserunner, what is taylor nothing but a prospect, so how can anyone say he would be a upgrade,

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  198. I have a feeling NoWheels made his mind up about Gillick awhile ago and never cared to change it. Gillick was great has won WS with multiple franchises and continues to advise Amaro(Ex. Raul Signing).

    Some people on this board seem to think that the major league team exists only to prove that your minors are good, instead of trying to improve your major league team however possible.

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  200. Does Bastardo’s successful debut make a guy like Savery more expendable? If so what is his value in terms of trading him as part of a package to land antoher starter?

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  201. If either Brown or Taylor is to be an untouchable, I’d much rather it be Taylor. Brown is a year further away, and has yet to make the hardest transition in the minors for a hitter–moving to AA where the pitchers can consistently command at least one pitch besides their fastball. Taylor is also probably going to have more power than Brown, too.

    Also, Jason Werth isn’t good enough to be a block for a player like Taylor (as much as I like Jason Werth). Werth would be an outstanding 4th OF getting 450 ABs a year subbing at the corners, DHing, PHing, and playing CF occasionally, and that’s probably his besst role. He looks a little over-exposed to me this season. And, incidentally, Werth is probably not going to be in Philly after 2010, when Taylor will likely be playing well enough to demand a full-time job.

    My preference is that Taylor, Brown, and Drabek all be untouchables, but I’d put Taylor first on that list. BTW, I’d love to know Drabek’s current radar gun readings. Has the surgery slowed his FB at all, or given him and extra mph or two (as it sometimes does)?

    I’m completely willing to deal Knapp, Collier, or Gose (once they’re eligible in a week or two) if the return is a top-flight starter, but those guys won’t bring one back. Marson, however, should bring back as much as Taylor. I thought he was an untouchable last year, but I’d include him for Oswalt or Halladay.

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  202. dxd
    Who needs a starter if we wait a nice cheap rental with
    a draft pick attached might come our way or a 3rd baseman for the future Hey we are the catbirds. I sorta like Bedard because his stuff is incredible but not yet. He needs to cook a little prove, his is healty, and grow weary of the management in Seattle (and them of him)

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  203. Supra98x – fair enough. I’m happy about how well Ibanez has performed. But it is all about projection. What is a better guide to how he will perform over the 2 and 2/3 years left on his contract: his hot two month start to this year (.399/.716/.340) or his previous 12 plus seasons in the major leagues (.358/.479/.288)? Is one to assume that at age 37 Ibanez has suddely figured it out and is likely to become a top five outfielder? Even if he has a career year this year, his production is likely to decline over the remaining term of his contract. On top of that he’s far more likely to get hurt than a younger player would be, which means wasted money while he wastes on the DL (look at the regression, much more likely than a player 10 years younger). So sorry, I need more than a few great months (yes he’s had a couple of great months) before I feel good about giving a 37 year old $31.5MM. Personally, I would have rather offered Burrell arbitration, paid him $10MM for a year, kept the first round pick and then have $20MM to play with this offseason or to use for a trade now. We probably wouldn’t be in first place right now if we had done that, but we don’t know that anymore than we know how Ibanez is going to perform the rest of the year.

    By the way, it’s $10.5MM per year.

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  205. Its not the end of the world for Taylor to play another year in the minors and then be a 4th OF in 2011 or even late 2010. Its nice to have a “Problem” like that.

    Bastardo had a great debut…despite the “criticism” that he only threw fastballs. Seriously, he only threw fastballs?!? That’s the best criticism people can come up with? He was up 4 runs to start off…throw strikes, throw strikes, and throw more strikes when you have a lead…especially if its working.

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  206. As usual, people here immediately assume any prospect is more valuable than someone who’s already proven to be a very good player in the pros. The idea that Jayson Werth’s 3-week slump is enough to make him replaceable by Michael Taylor, this year, for a team contending for a WS, is a joke. Werth is an above-average major league player. You don’t remove those guys in the middle of a contending season for an unproven rookie.

    Now, after the season, do you consider moving Werth for pitching help? That’s another story. But the idea that Werth “needs replacing” is laughable. Taylor’s value lies in what he might become in his MLB peak, and I think that’s a very high value. But Werth is there right now. I find it very, very hard to believe that Taylor would provide better production in the next year and a half than Werth.

    I agree on not trading Taylor, but because of what he could give the team in 20111-2014. Not because he could replace Jayson Werth adequately in the next two years. Come on.

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  207. Bedrosian – no offense taken. I was just irked by the article and sounded off and we had a spirited discussion. It’s all good by me.

    I think we all agree that the Phils would be ill-advised to trade Taylor, especially for an expensive pitcher or a guy who is short-term solution (Brad Penny). Honestly, I think the Phillies are smart and know that they should not trade this guy. If you had to ask me to guess which guys are trade bait right now, I’d guess it’s Carrasco, Carpenter, Savery, Donald and Marson. Of these five, I think they are resisting trading Carrasco and Marson the most. I think Brown, Drabek, Taylor, Hewitt and perhaps even Knapp are viewed by the organization to be untouchable. Mind you, this is just my perception of what I think is going on behind the scenes, not necessarily what I think should be going on.

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  208. Nepp so even if he continues we keep him in the minors doing no good for the club until 2011 when he will be almost 26. don’t understand that. but I am not bright

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  209. I’m with some of the other posters on this site

    Taylor for Worth in 2011
    Brown for Ibanez in 2012

    What’s so wrong with that? Why are we in such a rush?

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  210. People take into account the Phillies Payroll. I like Werth and Taylor would in probability not be an upgrade – or even close – but trading Werth does shed 5+ million off the payroll and it is not a long term deal for the other club. With that 5 mil it is much easier to get the top line starter that we all want.
    I want werth here for 2 years, I want all the prospects, I want another WS Trophy, as do all of you, but there are things that need to done.

    As for Gillick he did make some great moves but he also tied up alot of money that is hindering or did hinder us – Eaton, Garcia – to name a few. And although he picked up Blanton to help with our championship run he (and the rest of the Phils Brass) may have miscalcutaled on Outman and the the other 2.

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  211. Matt I think they were my quotes. If not I do agree. Glad to read somebody may like my ideas on what the Phils are doing

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  212. Drabek 7 ip 3 h 3bb 4 ks 0er great start in AA for Kyle, low strikeout numbers but listening to his start he got a lot of weak grounders hit off him

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  213. Shhh, nobody tell nowheels, but the Braves traded for Nate McLouth. I am actually happy about this, as McLouth will not put the Braves over the top and they gave up Gorkys Hernandez. I really do not understand why the Braves continue to trade their young talent for major league players when they are nothing more than a .500 club. Whatever…

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  214. I think Mclouth will help them now. I didn’t know Hernandez but he looks like outfielder with no power. What little that I read. seems like they like the braves move. but as stated I don’t know the prospect like you do.

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  215. If my sense of this is correct, you won’t be able to hold Michael Taylor down on the farm until 2011. He’s just too good and too advanced.

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  216. i know not necessarily the site for this, but i believe the braves stole mcclouth…hernandez is ok no power…mcclouth needed to get out of that horrible team, i think he will explode for the braves..hope not tho for obvious reasons

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  217. all i know is the big league club is great, fun to watch, home grown superstars with gritty tough winners mixed in..We now have studs in the minors something we rarely have seen, depth in the system , increased payroll, full stadium nightly, couple young south paws dealing, etc…Ownership is goin to ride the wave and most likely go after a big time pitcher, and cost us one if not 2 of our beloved prospects..ive come to grips with that…but if thats are big worry, id say life is good right now for us die hards and its a damn fun time to be a phillies fan

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  218. Hard to believe but of the three Phils teams in action tonight the starting pitchers went a combined 19 innings giving up nine hits and no runs between Happ, Drabek and Monasterios.

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  219. Neduol Caz Says:

    Shhh, nobody tell nowheels, but the Braves traded for Nate McLouth. I am actually happy about this, as McLouth will not put the Braves over the top and they gave up Gorkys Hernandez. I really do not understand why the Braves continue to trade their young talent for major league players when they are nothing more than a .500 club. Whatever…

    lol The dog woke me up at midnight and i was watching the tape when i heard. I called THAT radio station when he was first available and before they got Jenkins and pointed out Nate scored runs at the same rate as Rollins and of cource got the “we don need HIM” bs. It will be interesting
    how the late bloomer does. Good for him. Pittsburg will
    always be well Pittsburg and Russel is someone else’s problem.
    Happ was great again. That makes the Phils rookies
    6-0 and with JC back and Lidge hopefully straight,all
    is right with the world.

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  220. I just want to say that the way that the phillies announcers have been praising david eckstien is kinda sickening. He doesn’t hit for average or power, he’s not good at stealing bases, and he’s a below average second baseman. He doesn’t have the arm for second base. to not have enough arm for second base almost takes an effort. But God, those freakin announcers won’t stop saying what a gritty winner he is. He’s not. He is below average in all aspects of the game. he hurts teams. he doesn’t help them. I’m sorry that I put that here, but with firejoemorgan shut down for good, I just had to find an outlet for my anger at stupid announcers.

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  221. Hey jpd I am not noWHEELS please for nothing. When he tries to make one of his stupid inane points he goes on forever. I wish Sarge was my next door neighbor but ran a bank. When i can I turn the sound down.
    How good is Drabek?? Top ten??? hmmm.
    Btw The best trades are sometimes the ones not made. I think Peavy is headed to the DL. We shall see Maybe later in the year he may be a target again when it is clearer which prospects are really expendable.

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  222. Article in Inquirer today said Drabek hit 99 MPH in first inning and was generally in the low to mid 90s. They compare his delivery to Tom Seaver’s. Certainly, Drabek has roughly the same build and size of Seaver (probably a little bit stronger than Seaver, but they do look similar).

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  223. @nowheels please

    You need to calm down dude. I was attempting to have a discussion about your beef with Pat Gillick that I don’t get and you make it personal. You’re clearly entitled to your opinion…

    In all honesty, my biggest worry is that people on this site are going to see Bastardo’s debut and decide that the big club doesn’t need pitching. It does. We still need a number two starter, and unfortunately, to get that, we’re going to have to give up talent. This team is built to win right now, and we’re not going to win in the playoffs with Cole Hamels and a cast of thousands.

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  224. Jak440 nails it. The team as currently constituted might get in the playoffs, but they aren’t winning a world championship. If the right deal comes along, do you trade one or two of the top prospects for a chance to win another world championship? Absolutlely.

    It would, of course, have to be a legit #1 or #2. Trading a top prospect for a 3, 4, or 5 would make no sense.

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  226. ak440 Says:
    @nowheels please

    You need to calm down dude. I was attempting to have a discussion about your beef with Pat Gillick that I don’t get and you make it personal. You’re clearly entitled to your opinion

    Okey dokey. It just bothers me that people dont see things
    realistically ,good and bad but leap for the throat if you say anything about their “family”
    Some people on this site like ………….. well lets let that go
    friends??

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  227. ak440
    I believe the need is there(50%) but this isnt the time. not yet
    Peavy might have a bad ankle,others might have other problem what we dont need is someone else’s problem. Remember we have backup or almost anyone. Send out spies
    lol before the deadline
    btw some said McLouth wont put Atlanta over the top. Agreed
    but it puts them in the wildcard race

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  228. @nowheels please

    Friends. I don’t want to trade away our prospects to acquire another Joe Blanton, but I do think if we can get a Dan Harren or someone of his ilk you’ve absolutely got to do it. With that said, we don’t win the WS without Joe the Lumber last year. I’m just afraid with the current state of our rotation, someone like a Brad Penny isn’t going to get it done. I just don’t see our rotation as it’s currently constituted being able to win a playoff series. I hope I’m wrong.

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  229. if we make a deal it will be for a righthander. the only pitcher i would actively pursue as i said last month is danny haren. hallidays going nowhere. oswalt maybe. as long as the guy who sits down is moyer. i see with my eyes and if anyone doesny think happ is for real open yours. bastardo is not some 1 shot freak, hes a number 2-3 and if you cant see that good luck. ill take hamels happ bastardo blanton . by the time the playoffs roll around bastardo will have plenty of starts under his belt.remember happ pitched last year. and remember the team they pitch for its not lhv or reading its the best lineup and defense in bb. thats what makes me laugh when i hear a pitcher wont come here because of cbp. get real. aside from haren or oswalt no deal. you can have your lee,s bedards and 16 mil a year head job peavy.

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  230. im with you john…i have mlb package and watch all the games, and dan haren is a horse and tough, would be a perfect fit..i also watch oswalt and just dont like what im seeing, id give up much more for Haren but i doubt hes on the block

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  231. I agree—–Bedard,Lee,Marquis and Peavy are all too costly relative to their performance.. Frankly, very few pitchers can be identified as “real top of the rotation studs”. Haren would be exciting to add but would cost us Taylor and Drabek. Lets see how things shake out over the next six weeks. We have a boatload of prospects if we need to deal at that point.

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  232. Well written mwbbfan The long overdue Happ starts and the Bastardo start and the advent of Drabek not to meantion the others, has changed everything .No Eaton or struggling Myers
    this year and Raul is as complete a slugger as i have seen in years(37 and he runs the bases so well). Chill lol
    A late season acquistion, if it goes bad can only do minimal damage. A bad one now could be disasterous

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  233. I love Drabek . but for haren he goes. I rather have a sure thing number 1 than a mystery.

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  234. Taylor and Bastardo named May Minor players of the month.

    Taylor 3-3 tonight and now batting 351

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  235. I don’t think that most people on this board have a huge disagreement about what the Phillies should do w/r/t a trade – no one thinks they should give up a top prospect for a 3, 4, or 5, few people think that they need to rush into a trade right now (though many of us think they should pull the trigger if the right deal is there), and even the trade sceptics mostly agree that we shouldn’t rule out a trade later int he season if the right deal is there.

    But all that said, the kind of over-valaution of our young guys/prospects, and under-valuation of more established players, that is so prevelent on this board, really cracks me up. nowheels latest post exemplifies it. Bastardo has 1 (one) major league start. Happ has, what, 8, I think, too lazy to check, but thereabouts. You can’t project much of anything from so few starts. I think it’s great that they are doing well – I hope they keep it up. But come on guys, in both cases there isn’t any particular reason to believe that either player is going to be a 1 or 2. And that’s fine – you need solids 3s, 4s, 5s. I love Drabek, but he has all of one game above A ball, and in any event he isn’t part of the answer for this year.

    I mean. say what you will about Myers, at his best he is a more-than-solid #2. Sure, he is inconsistent – but he was excellent in the second half last year, excellent when it mattered. Maybe I’m misreading nowheels post, but he seems to be saying that he PREFERS Bastardo to Myers. If so, that’s just crazy.

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  236. @LarryM

    We always overvalue our own prospects. The one that cracks me up a bit is Bastardo. He’s pitched one game. In that game he threw fastballs almost exclusively. His command was only so-so and he left waaaaay to many pitches up in the zone. That start also came against arguably the worst hitting team in the National League in a pitchers park. Obviously I hope the guy does well, but to say that one start changes our need for a starting pitcher just isn’t true.

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